This is page numbers 3347 – 3406 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was going.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Cochrane.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will start, and then, if the chair allows, then I will let Mr. Schauerte expand on it. Municipal and Community Affairs does the assessments in the communities and on Commissioner's land, but Finance deals with the mill rates and the collection of taxes and things. I will let Mr. Schauerte actually expand on that if the chair permits. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Mr. Schauerte.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Schauerte

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We of course conduct property assessment pursuant to the Property Assessment and Taxation Act. The legislation sets out the classifications of properties that are subject to property assessment. One of the areas is recreational cabins. I can certainly appreciate the question from the Member. We have certainly heard that at the department level, of concerns raised by residents who are treaty status, who believe that they were exempt to taxation. Accordingly, we did work with the Department of Justice to seek interpretation of our legislation, and our understanding of the assertion of treaty rights is that, if a cabin is being used for the benefit of the whole community in that it is a community resource for hunting or fishing or sustenance purposes, certainly that would be something that would be exempt. The type of cabins that are being assessed right now are individual property owners' based on recreational leases, so, within the scope of the legislation, they fall within the area that we would assess, and, accordingly, we have continued to apply PATA in that regard. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Schauerte. Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you. So non-recreational cabins that are used for harvesting, like hunting, trapping, fishing, and even berry-picking, I am wondering if those cabins are taxed. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Cochrane.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As Mr. Schauerte said, if they are individual cabins, belonging to an individual and used for their purposes, they are assessed; if they are a cabin that is used for the community as a whole, they are currently not assessed. My understanding is that, once the land claims are finished, those issues will be addressed, so I would encourage all of our MLAs around the table to push the governments to actually settle the land claims. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think, Mr. Chairman, most governments want to settle the claim in unsettled areas, but I guess my question is very specific. If an individual is using a cabin for non-recreational use; I don't consider somebody going out to hunt bison and has a cabin along the Slave River to be recreational use. Maybe they go there and picnic and that by boat and so on, but I am seeing recreational use as something you may be able to access by a vehicle, by a car. From the cabins that are used for traditional harvesting, are they taxed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Cochrane.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As stated, and I will state it again, if the cabins are used for an individual's family and not shared with the community as a whole, they are currently assessed and taxed. If they are used as a community cabin and all community members are allowed to use that cabin for traditional harvesting and hunting, they are not taxed. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Mr. Chairman, I am using the term recreational. Mr. Schauerte used the term recreational. The Minister used the term recreational. I am trying to avoid the term recreational. I am asking if the government would be taxing somebody's trapping cabin. My understanding is that there are cabins on the Slave River near Fort Smith, near Fort Resolution, and cabins on the Taltson River, that are subject to taxing. Individuals are not seeing how that is possible. They went in the bush. They have been trapping there forever. They have replaced their cabins every once in a while, and they trap out of there, and they hunt out of there. Everybody shares cabins. Whether they share it with a community or not shouldn't have any relevance at all if we are using just the rules to assess and then tax. Very specific. I don't want the same answer again, because I got the same answer three times. I clearly understand. If you are sharing cabins with the whole community, it is not taxable. I am asking about an individual who is using a cabin for traditional harvesting, if that cabin is subject to taxation. This is the last time I will ask it.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Cochrane.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am trying not to say the same thing for the fourth time. The answer is yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Any further questions on this department? We will go back to this activity. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Sorry. In regard to what Mr. Beaulieu was talking about, the department has a legal opinion from Justice on what is traditional usage and what is recreational, correct? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

I just want to say that a legal opinion from Justice would be privileged.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister Sebert. Minister Cochrane.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you. We should have said legal review versus legal opinion. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Ok.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Ok, we'll try this again. Minister Sebert.