Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, committee would like to consider Tabled Document 322-18(3), Main Estimates, 2019-2020, and would like to start with the Department of Justice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The committee will consider the document after a very brief recess. Thank you.

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I will call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 322-18(3), Main Estimates 2019-2020. The Minister of Finance, I understand, does not have opening remarks, so we will move right into the department that we have agreed to consider, the Department of Justice. Does the Minister of Justice have any opening remarks? Minister Sebert.

Yes, thank you, I do. I am pleased to present the 2019-2020 Main Estimates for the Department of Justice. Overall, the department's estimates propose an increase of just over $3 million, or 2.4 percent, over the 2018-2019 Main Estimates.

Highlights of the proposed estimates include:

• $1.389 million in forced-growth funding to provide the RCMP with increased capacity to cover the costs of officer participation in new and existing training initiatives and related administrative costs;
• $179,000 in forced-growth funding to enable the Legal Aid Commission to add a new full-time criminal defence lawyer position in response to rising workloads in this area;
• $171,000 to cover a 1 percent wage increase for non-unionized employees;
• $308,000 in federal funding to support investments related to the legalization of cannabis in the Northwest Territories;
• $269,000 to increase the department's capacity to support GNWT departments in responding to access and privacy matters in a more consistent and efficient manner; and
• $124,000 to support the establishment of a manager position within the Legal Aid Commission to address operational pressures.

These estimates continue to support the priorities of the 18^th Legislative Assembly by:

• implementing improvements to corrections programming, including the development of enhanced culturally appropriate programming and working with our community partners to support inmates with their reintegration back into their communities;
• supporting the RCMP and communities to strengthen partnerships;
• implementing innovative ways to prevent and reduce crime; and
• supporting initiatives and partnerships to prevent and reduce family violence.

That concludes my opening remarks. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Do you wish to bring witnesses into the Chamber?

Yes, please.

Thank you, Minister. Sergeant-at-Arms, would you please escort the Minister's witnesses into the Chamber.

Minister Sebert, please introduce your witnesses to the House.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. To my left is Mandi Bolstad, director of corporate services. To my right is Martin Goldney, the deputy minister of Justice. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Welcome to the witnesses. It has been a while since we have been Committee of the Whole, so I will just remind everyone to let us know when you are finished talking so that our tech team can change the mics. Just say "thank you," and the team will know to change the mics, and all exchange goes through myself as chair.

Committee, we earlier agreed to forego opening comments. If that is still the wish of committee, we can begin with the Department of Justice detail. The department itself begins on page 264 of the document, and the first item is community justice and policing, found on page 271. Does committee have questions on community justice and policing? Ms. Green.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I have questions on page 268, the revenue summary. Is that a page that we are going to go back to? Thank you.

Thank you. The plan was to go through each activity, and then, when we go back to the departmental total, we can consider the org charts, the revenue summaries, et cetera, in the opening portion of the document. Is that acceptable to committee?

Thank you. Was there anything on community justice and policing, Ms. Green?

Yes, thank you. This seems like a good time to ask the Minister again about community approaches to sexual assault reporting and sexual assault charges that can be reviewed. Last week he didn't have any answers to these questions about when or how this would happen, and I am wondering if he has been able to obtain more information that he would like to share with us now. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister Sebert.

Thank you. I don't know if I have anything really new than the information that I provided in the House last week. We are, of course, aware about how important this issue is, and we are continuing to work with the RCMP with respect to this matter. Of course, this arose out of a report in 2017 in the Globe and Mail and led to questions about this whole issue, not only in this House, but across Canada, and the police have made efforts. In December 2017 the police released the results of their national review in a document called "The Way Forward," and this included actions to make the police more sensitive and aware, if I can put it that way, through training, to sexual assaults. So work is continuing in this important area. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, my concern in this area is that the unfounded series that kicked off the debate about third-party review of sexual assault complaints that are considered unfounded, this started two years ago, and the third-party reporting of sexual assaults has been requested since before that. My question for the Minister is: at what point are we going to see a justification for increasing the grants and contributions in this portion of the budget indicating that action is actually being taken on these two issues? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are working with our partners in the RCMP with respect to this important matter and, of course, once we determine the path forward, we likely would require further funding, if such funding is required, which would seem likely. Thank you.

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Minister has said a number of times how important this issue is, and yet I have to say that there is no progress on this issue. There is an examination of approaches, and a refinement of approaches, and consultation about approaches, but we're still no further toward implementing any approaches or training staff to use them. At what point is the Minister going to pick up some speed on this file and provide some solutions? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Yes. As I have mentioned numerous times, this is an important issue, and we do continue to work with our partners in the RCMP. Clearly the RCMP internally have made what I would suggest are significant advances arising out of the report that I referenced earlier called "The Way Forward: The RCMP's sexual assault review and victim support action plan." Now, we are working with the RCMP with respect to third-party reporting. That is an important issue, so progress has been made. Further progress is clearly needed. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Thank you. Yes, further progress is needed, and I would suggest it needs to happen in a quicker way. During our consideration of the business plan, the Minister told us that regular members of the “G” Division will be required to have completed the course called "Consent Law and Common Sexual Assault Myths" by the end of this fiscal year. Could the Minister update us with how many of the “G” Division staff have actually completed this training? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. All regular members will be required, as I understand it, to complete the Consent Law and Common Sexual Assault Myths course, which was specifically created to address the issues identified in the RCMP's sexual assault review and victim support action plan. As of January 21, 2019, 139 members, or 71.2 percent, have completed the course. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Green.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the Minister for that information. So what are the chances that the remaining 29 percent of the members will have completed the training by the end of this fiscal year? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Of course, that is the objective, as I mentioned previously, to have all regular members complete this course. I don't have a date, but hopefully, as I say, all will be able to complete the course. I will check on that to see and inform committee, should they wish, as to progress. As I say, 139 members, I'm told, or 71.2 percent have completed the course. Clearly there is another 28.8 who need to. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. So at this point, Minister, you are not able to confirm whether or not all members will complete the course by the end of this fiscal year. Is that correct?

No, I can't confirm that that would be done. Thank you.

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Thank you. Well, that is the commitment that was made, and so I'm looking for an understanding about why that commitment can't be met. What's the problem? Thank you.

My understanding, Mr. Chair, is that that was the RCMP's commitment, and I certainly will keep committee and Members apprised as to progress, but, again, it's the commitment of the RCMP. There may be operational reasons why they could not get that done sooner rather than later. Clearly, it's an important issue, and most members have completed the course, most regular members. Thank you.

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Thank you. Unfortunately, the overall message here is that, while the Minister says that this issue is important, the walk is not equivalent to the talk. I feel there is really room for improvement in this, and I encourage him to make those improvements as soon as possible. That's all for me, thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Green. Next, I have Mr. McNeely.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Looking at the expenditures that are going to kick in here in a few months, or a few weeks, it still allows time for scheduling and planning. My first question related to that is on the funding provided by the federal government for cannabis education. Is the department going to be developing, or has it developed, a community-by-community education plan and schedule? If the Minister recalls, take the Sahtu, for example, only one of five communities was visited by our committee to discuss the legalization of cannabis. Now that we have some money to provide some education about cannabis, is there a schedule to do that for all 33 communities? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. McNeely. I believe this is the right section for that question. Perhaps we can just get some clarification, and an answer from the department if it is. Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don't think we've quite reached that level of detail yet, but Mr. Goldney might be able to expand on my answer. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Goldney.

Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Mr. McNeely.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, maybe if the department could work with the Department of Health in providing some consultation education sessions, either at the public level or at the school level, in the coming fiscal year. I put that out as a suggestion to the department. There is still time before this budget kicks in. You have got $308,000 there for that, and I imagine it could be shared on a 50/50 basis with the Health Department. Increasing the resources there would address targeting all 33 communities.

My next question is on the RCMP participation. You have $1.3 million to allow forced growth there in providing the RCMP with increased capacity, and in your opening remarks, you mentioned supporting the RCMP and communities to strengthen partnerships. That is kind of a broad statement, but I like that, and I would just like a little bit of explanation of how you intend to strengthen these partnerships. I know that we have a lot of problems in some of these communities more so than others, but building the social fabric of these communities through education and partnerships with the front-line workers is very healthy and one remedy of the solution of stability. I am just wondering how you plan to do that. Is there any preliminary information that you can share? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Yes, that certainly is an important question, but I wonder if we might defer that until we get to policing services.

Thank you, Minister. The Minister has advised that this would be better left until policing services, which is one of the later activities. It is found on page 288. Do you have any other questions related to community justice and policing, Mr. McNeely, and we will get back to you when we get to policing services? Mr. McNeely.

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. We will move that to the appropriate page there, as you mentioned. The overall Justice Department, when you look at the pie, expenditures are good. I am in support of the department moving further once the budget is passed, if it is passed, and implementing the expenditures to improve some of the areas that we are going to be suggesting here today.

One of the areas that I think we really need improvement in is rehabilitation and reconciliation program delivery in our North Slave Correctional Centre. At any given time, if we went there with a taxi later on, I think you can find out on hand how many programs are actually being delivered. I think we can improve in that area. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. McNeely. The next section is corrections, so we will delve more into that. Do we have anything further from committee? I see Mr. Thompson is on the list.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess my first question is about the integrated case management pilot. Has the department improved coordination between the program and NGOs presently? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Yes, this is an important initiative, and we are always, of course, attempting to improve our delivery of services to our citizens. I think Mr. Goldney might be able to expand a bit on my response, if I may, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Goldney.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Sorry, Mr. Chair, I think the Minister asked to follow up on that information. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister, would you like to add something?

Yes, of course. It has been mentioned by the deputy minister that this is a pilot project. In my view, it has been a pretty successful project, so we are looking at it moving forward, and as I say, looking at the numbers of referrals, it appears to be a well-used program, but it is, of course, a pilot at this stage. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, I know it is a pilot project, and I have heard from the deputy minister and the Minister about potential expansion plans. Can the Minister share whether we are starting to do the planning now, or are we waiting until when this pilot project is completed? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. We do realize the importance of this, and my deputy minister, along with others, is working on the whole idea of integration and case management. Yes, we are working on this, and we are not waiting until the last minute, if that is the question. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister tell us how long this program has been going on? When did it start? We know it is going to be ended in 2020. Can you tell us when it started and how long it has been running since? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

My understanding is that the pilot was a three-year program ending in 2020, March 31^st, I assume.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Is this program a federally-funded program, or is this actually being funded by the territorial government? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My understanding is that this is funded by our own resources. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am going on to another topic in this area here, but when we talk about family violence, is it still the Department of Justice that is taking the lead on this? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. This is important work, and it is shared by several departments. Mr. Goldney could perhaps give more detail, but we do realize the importance of this. It's just not our department.

Thank you. Mr. Goldney.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Since it is a multi-departmental approach, how is the work being done incorporating community partners and the other stakeholders? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Goldney.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's my understanding that it's the final year for federal funding for the Family Information Liaison Unit, so can the Minister please elaborate on where we are with this work? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Yes, thank you. The Family Information Liaison Units, or FILUs, help missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls' families find information about what has happened to their loved ones. About 50 family members, I'm told, have asked NWT FILU staff for help with their research. Cases span the years, according to this note, from the 1953 to 2018 time frame, and every provincial and territorial government has received federal funding to establish a Family Information Liaison Unit. I see that the federal government provided $285,000 in 2017-2018 and $351,000 in 2018-2019 to support the GNWT's FILU salaries, administration, training, and travel. We are expecting that, in 2019-2020, or we are hoping that it would likely be a similar amount to those I mentioned earlier. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So we're in our last year, but have we approached the federal government and asked if we're going to be expanding this? Because we haven't seen a lot of results right now, and people are looking forward to or hoping that we can continue this, so have you reached out to the federal Minister and asked if they will be expanding this for future years? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

I understand that our officials have reached out to their counterparts in the federal government regarding this work. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you. Could the Minister elaborate if there has been a positive reception from the federal government in this area? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My understanding is that nothing has been finalized to this point, but that the discussions have been encouraging. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson, 30 seconds.

Thank you Mr. Chair, and I'll try to get these 30 seconds in and give him a chance to answer the question. Emergency protection orders. Have there been any changes or expected changes to this program? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I understand that there are about 65 emergency protection orders that are judicially confirmed each year. I don't think, and I'll stand to be corrected if I'm wrong, that we're planning a change in the legislation in this area. We do recognize that this is an important way that we can support victims, so it is very important, the so-called EPOs. I don't think we're contemplating changes in the legislation in this area. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Next, we have Mr. Testart.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister confirm that the Integrated Case Management Pilot started in 2017 and will run until 2020? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don't want to change my response because there is a different questioner, but my understanding is that it ends on March 31, 2020. We're sure of that, and we are confident that it started three years ago. It's a three-year program, I'm told. Heads are nodding. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for assisting us with that complicated math. Mr. Testart.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm looking at a news article on the CBC from September of 2017, and in that it's quoted as saying that 215 referrals have been made to the program since October of 2015, referencing Integrated Case Management. Prior to occupying this seat, I spent some time working in the Minister's department. That was prior to 2015, and my recollection was that Integrated Case Management was going on then. Why this is relevant, Mr. Chair, is that I understand evaluating a three-year program and determining how to proceed, but if this is more like a six-year program or a seven-year program, then it seems like it should no longer be a pilot. You know, we have officials and the Minister saying this is a great program, we need to keep going with it, so is this information incorrect? Is my own recollection incorrect? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Perhaps the Minister could clarify whether this is a second or third iteration of this program, or what the case may be. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If I might, I'd like to defer the question to Mr. Goldney, as he may have more accurate information than I possess. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Goldney.

Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Mr. Testart.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Are we going to keep piloting this, I guess? I mean, this budget is obviously continuing to pilot it, but are we going to see an expansion? When do we get out of the pilot phase? Can the Minister shed any light on that? Because once it's five or six or seven pilots, it's not a pilot anymore, it's an appropriation for a program. So, again, if we could have clarity on the future of the ICM program? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm not certain whether there is any limitation on the number of pilots you can have, but the program, in our view, has been successful. I cannot commit to this, but I think it's time that we take a very careful look at this. It has been a success, and perhaps it's time to move ahead to a program that is not a pilot. In fact, that's the goal of the work that we're doing at this time, or the department is. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Testart.