Committee Motion 116-18(3): Concurrence of Tabled Document 388-18(3): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2019-2020, Carried

In the Legislative Assembly on March 13th, 2019. See this topic in context.

Committee Motion 116-18(3): Concurrence of Tabled Document 388-18(3): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2019-2020, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5430

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that consideration of Tabled Document 388-18(3), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2019-2020, now be concluded, and that Tabled Document 388-18(3) be reported and recommended as ready for future consideration in a formal session through the form of an appropriation bill. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. There is a motion on the floor. The motion has been distributed. All those in favour? All those opposed?

---Carried

Committee, we have agreed to next consider Tabled Document 389-18(3), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2019-2020. I will turn to the Minister of Finance for opening comments. Minister McLeod.

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Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am here to present Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2019-2020. This document provides for an increase of $2.5 million to the 2019-2020 operating budget.

The six items included in these supplementary estimates are:

$1.3 million to support the Taltson Hydro Expansion project. These projects again will be fully offset by revenue from Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada;
$800,000 for the Small Community Employment program;
$155,000 for programs supported by the Canadian Family Justice Fund Agreement, 2017-2022. These expenditures will be fully offset by revenue from the Government of Canada;
$148,000 for the Slave Geological Province Corridor project. These expenditures will be fully offset by revenue from the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency;
$100,000 in support of the Northwest Territories Film Industry Support project. These expenditures will be fully offset by revenue from the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency; and
$60,000 for implementation activities directly related to the legalization and regulation of cannabis.

That concludes my opening remarks, Mr. Chair. I would be happy to answer any questions Members may have. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5430

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. General comments on the document? Seeing none, we shall proceed to the detail, beginning on page 4. Education, Culture and Employment, labour development and advancement. Seeing nothing, I'll call this page. 2019-2020 Supplementary Estimates, No. 1 (Operations Expenditures), Education, Culture and Employment, labour development and advancement, not previously authorized. Does committee agree?

March 13th, 2019

Page 5430

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Education, Culture and Employment, total department, not previously authorized, $800,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5430

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Please turn to page 5, ITI. Comments? Questions? Seeing none, 2019-2020. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I think this is where the Slave Geological Province Corridor funding is found. Can someone tell me whether there's any matching funding from GNWT for this work to go ahead? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. You might be on the wrong estimates. This is about film support, film industry support. Nothing further, I assume, Mr. O'Reilly? Thank you. I will call this page, 2019-2020 Supplementary Estimates, No. 1 (Operations Expenditures), Industry, Tourism and Investment, economic diversification and business support, not previously authorized, $100,000. Does committee agree??

Page 5430

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5430

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Industry, Tourism and Investment, total department, not previously authorized, $100,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5430

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5430

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Please turn to page 6, Infrastructure. Mr. O'Reilly.

Page 5430

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair, my apologies. Can someone tell me whether there is any matching funding required from GNWT to have this work go ahead? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

Page 5430

Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. For 2019-2020 operations funding, there will be $37,000 worth of GNWT funding for the contribution to include the federal share. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Page 5430

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Which departments are contributing towards this funding? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

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Stewart

Thank you, Mr. Chair. $34,000 of that is from Environment and Natural Resources and $3,000 from the Department of Infrastructure.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Page 5430

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. What work is ENR doing, then, that's going to contribute towards the Slave Geological Province Road? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. We have provided a table to committee to try to respond to a number of questions that were asked during our briefing. The ENR money, wildlife studies include barren-ground caribou and grizzly bears, so it's just some wildlife studies that are going on. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I guess I'm trying to figure out here: is this ongoing activities within the department? Are resources being diverted from within ENR to support work on the Slave Geological Province Road? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. This is all very important work. We want to make sure that we cover all our bases, and I can assure that there's no money being diverted from any other department program that ENR offers to go towards the work on the Slave Geological Province. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Thanks to the Minister for that. Just for the record, I object in principle to ENR contributing towards the Slave Geological Province Road when there's no new money for the caribou crisis in the 2019 budget. It's just beyond belief to me that money is being used within the ENR department that should be working towards caribou protection to support a project that will ultimately take away from the range, the habitat of the caribou, when they're in a crisis position. This is just rather ironic to me, and I don't expect an answer or a response from you, Minister, but I just object, in principle, to us using money even within the ENR, even if it's federal money, for a project that will ultimately hurt caribou. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. The Minister would like to respond, so I will give him an opportunity. Minister.

Page 5431

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. I do appreciate the opportunity to respond, and I note the Member's objection. I assured Members that there was no money being diverted from any other programs that ENR offers, and the money that's going towards this is to do our work on the wildlife. It's not going into the actual construction of the road, and I think we've made that quite clear. As I've directed my department to do, I have asked them to come forward. We have done some budgetary exercises for some of the work we need to do on the caribou as a result of the discussions with the Tlicho Government and the Yellowknives Dene First Nations. I've directed them to come forward with the plan and a budget for dollars because I had made commitments to our Aboriginal partners that we were going to do this. I just wanted an opportunity to say that there's not money coming out, actually, in our budget to go towards construction of the road. It's to go to the work that ENR is tasked to do. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

Page 5431

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I sort of have the same line of question to provide funding for the Taltson expansion. This one is more money, and there's small time to spend the money. I am assuming that there will be another agreement in place for the three organizations mentioned earlier by the honourable Minister for Infrastructure. I'd like to ask if that is the case, that this is for the engagement for the three political bodies, the NWT Metis Nation, the Akaitcho Territorial Government, and also the Salt River First Nations, if those are the three bodies that will be signing a contribution agreement for this engagement? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

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Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Through you, I'd like to defer to Minister Schumann.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Schumann.

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Wally Schumann Hay River South

This funding is going to help support the development of the Taltson Hydro project. As I've said, it's going to go towards the terms of hydro power engineering, transmission engineering, as well as the regulatory and environmental process and the further development of the engagement strategy to the respective project with the Indigenous governments, and funding will also help us use to research the potential of private partners and the creation of a financial model. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

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Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There's a lot of work there. How much of this is for the Aboriginal or Indigenous engagement? Thank you.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Schumann.

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Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Out of this amount, roughly $675,000 will be for further engagement and participation. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

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Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So this $675,000 will be in addition to whatever of the $705 million in the previous supplementary operations number for 2018-2019? There was an amount there. I didn't get specific about that amount, because there was such a short time frame. There's an amount there, and the $675,000 is added to that? I'd like to get that clarified, please, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

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Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. First of all, it's $705,000. The Member said $705 million. It was a nice try, though. A nice try for the MLA.

---Laughter

It is correct that the $675,000, to my understanding, is on top of the money that was already appropriated, I believe, for the Indigenous; and it's $705,000. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

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Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

The big question that everybody wants me to ask, and that is: is this money of Aboriginal engagement going to address the initial issue? When Taltson dam was first built, I spoke about this many times in the House, when Taltson dam was first built, it essentially relocated two communities, and it continues to kill all the muskrat and beaver on the Taltson River every few years. So I want to ask the Minister if there is going to be any discussion focused on that. Or is this just an engagement to look at the expansion, not to look backwards, not to look at what happened in the past, although the money is coming from the federal government? This was a federal government issue in 1964. I'd like to ask the Minister if this engagement is going to include discussions on what happened when the Taltson was first built, back in the 1960s. Thank you.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

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Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My understanding is that it is not. It's just to do the Aboriginal engagement on the expansion of it. I'm sure, through that discussion, there may be a lot of comments from the Aboriginal partners on the exact issue that the Member spoke of. I'm not sure what the plan would be then. The simply answer and the reason for the appropriation is to have our engagement with our Aboriginal partners on the expansion. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

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Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to ask the government if there is any plan to at least take a look at what has been put on the table by those three organizations that they are engaging on this project to see what has been put on the table for Taltson prior to this project. Any negotiation, anything that involves any discussion of compensation, anything that involves any discussion at all about what happened to the two communities of Rocher River and Rat River on the Taltson River. I'd like to ask the Minister if there is going to be any discussion at all that includes any of that, including a discussion of this current project.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

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Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Through you, I'd like to go to Minister Schumann.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Minister Schumann.

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Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. When I sat down with all three of these governments to discuss the potential Taltson Hydro project, I stated quite clearly at that time that this is looking forward on how we can do the expansion to bring economic opportunities, not to just them but to the whole Northwest Territories. Through those conversations, they knew it was quite clear. They made it quite clear to me that this would not be a conversation about what previously happened with the Taltson expansion back in the 1960s. In fact, some of the chiefs even asked me, "You need to come to the communities and help me explain this to the residents, to quantify that this project is clearly on a moving-forward basis." Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

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Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's good. That's what I'm hoping for. I'm not trying to negotiate a compensation for the Aboriginal governments here in this Chamber. I just want to make sure that they have a clear understanding. If a direction was given by the three governments that the contribution agreement was signed and they've all said, "don't worry about the past; we're moving forward," it's on the record. I'm happy with that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5431

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Anything further from committee? 2019-2020 Supplementary Estimates No. 1 (Operations Expenditures), Infrastructure, corporate management not previously authorized, $148,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Infrastructure, programs and services not previously authorized, $1,335,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Infrastructure, total department, $1,483,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5431

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Please turn to Justice. 2019-2020 Supplementary Estimates No. 1 (Operations Expenditures), Justice, court services not previously authorized, $145,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5431

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Justice, services to government not previously authorized, $10,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Justice, total department not previously authorized, $155,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Mr. Beaulieu.

Committee Motion 116-18(3): Concurrence of Tabled Document 388-18(3): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2019-2020, Carried

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