Committee Motion 114-18(3): Concurrence of Tabled Document 381-18(3): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 4, 2018-2019, Carried

In the Legislative Assembly on March 13th, 2019. See this topic in context.

Committee Motion 114-18(3): Concurrence of Tabled Document 381-18(3): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 4, 2018-2019, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5426

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that consideration of Tabled Document 381-18(3), Supplementary Estimates, (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 4, 2018-2019 be now concluded and that Tabled Document 381-18(3) be reported and recommended as ready for further consideration in the formal session through the form of an appropriation bill. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. The motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee, we have agreed to next consider Tabled Document 382-18(3), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 2018-2019. I will turn to the Minister of Finance for opening remarks. Minister McLeod.

Page 5426

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I am here to present Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 2018-2019. This document provides for an increase of $16.7 million to the 2018-2019 operating budget.

The major items included in these supplementary estimates are:

$4.5 million for increased costs related to the Income Assistance Program;
$3.3 million for costs associated with operationalizing the new Stanton Territorial Hospital;
$2 million for insured hospital services provided to individuals who are not residents of the Northwest Territories. These expenditures will be fully offset by recoveries from other jurisdictions;
$1.4 million for repairs required to the runway at the Inuvik Airport;
$1.1 million for Grant-in-Lieu of Property Taxes Program payments to municipal taxation authorities as per the Grants-in-Lieu of Property Taxes Policy;
$1 million to support the combined day shelter and sobering program in Yellowknife;
$745,000 for demolition and site cleanup resulting from the October 2, 2018 fire that destroyed the Rockhill Apartments;
$705,000 to support the Taltson Hydro Expansion Project. This expenditure will be fully offset by revenue from Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada;
$646,000 for increased payments required for the Hay River Health and Social Services Authority Pension Plan; and
$501,000 for supplementary health programs for a projected budget shortfall for Extended Health Benefits and Metis Health Benefits.

That concludes my opening remarks, Mr. Chair. I would be happy to answer questions that the Members might have. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Committee, the first voteable item is found on page 4, Department of Education, Culture and Employment. However, if there are general comments, I will open the floor to general comments. Seeing none, we will proceed to the detail on page 4. Comments or questions? Ms. Green.

Page 5426

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There is about a 5-percent increase in the funding allocated to income security. I am wondering if this is money because there are more clients or if this is money because of the change in the benefits. Thank you.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Page 5426

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The increase is due to there being more clients, plus I believe that there were some inflationary rates that were applied to this as well. The number of income support clients has gone up, as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Page 5426

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Given the fact that the number of income assistance cases has been going up steadily, I am wondering if the budget will now take into account a certain amount of forced growth, or maybe it already does, for income support. Thank you.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Page 5426

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you. Forced growth, I believe, is taken into account, and the number that I have is $1.7 million in forced growth in 2019-2020. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Nothing further from Ms. Green. Anything further? Seeing nothing, I will call this page. Supplementary estimates (operations expenditures), No. 4, 2018-2019, Education, Culture and Employment, income security, not previously authorized, $4,455,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5426

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Education, Culture and Employment, total department, not previously authorized, $4,455,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5426

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Page 5, Health and Social Services. Comments or questions? Mr. O'Reilly.

Page 5426

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. The first item here is about operationalizing the new Stanton Territorial Hospital. Can someone explain to me what that is all about? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Kalgutkar.

Page 5426

Kalgutkar

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Because of the larger size of the new hospital and the loss in resources that were allowed to be shared in the smaller facility, moving to a bigger facility, the new hospital does need additional resources to operate. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Page 5426

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Can someone tell me what the current staff level is, then, for the old hospital, and how many new employees are required to operate the new hospital? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Page 5426

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Through you, I would like to go to Minister Abernethy to respond to that. Thank you.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Would Minister Abernethy care to respond? Minister.

Page 5426

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I actually don't remember off the top of my head what the total staff complement of Stanton existing is, but I can say that we are adding $2.667 million to operationalize Stanton, which is basically 42.5 new positions. The budget increase, as Mr. Kalgutkar said, is based on the projected cost of delivering existing services in the new space. There will be increased costs due to the increased size and the physical layout of the building, upgraded technology and equipment, changing work processes, and the delivery of facility management services through the PC.

This isn't unusual. When we moved forward with opening the regional health centre in Fort Smith, we had to add some additional positions due to size and change in facility. The same is true if you go back in time to Inuvik, and even in Norman Wells, when we added the new facility with new functions there, we had to come for some additional positions. These are necessary in order to ensure delivery in a safe, effective manner within the new facility. I can provide the Members with a list of the positions at any time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Page 5426

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Can anybody tell me what the current staff level is at the hospital and how many new positions are being added as a result of this funding? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

Page 5426

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you. The current staff complement, by my understanding, is 411 staff members in there, and I think, through the process, we are adding an additional 44. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Page 5426

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I don't object in principle to this, but I know that I have had at least two tours of the new hospital where I have been told that the new facility would be run with the exact same number of employees as the old one. Can someone explain to me why I was told that on at least two occasions, and then we have this supplementary appropriation in front of us now for an increase of about 10 percent in terms of the staffing at the hospital? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

Page 5426

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, through you, I would like to defer to Minister Abernethy. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5426

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Abernethy.

Page 5427

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would certainly like to know who told the Member that. I have always been very consistent. I have never said that we are not adding new positions; I have always said that we are not adding new programs. When I have been asked in other situations, I have said that there will definitely be some growth in positions, but we did not add any new programs.

The facility is quite a bit larger than it used to be. We have made it more effective, more efficient, but there are additional complications as a result of the additional floors and the additional space between. We need to make sure that the sightlines are appropriate to ensure safe patient care.

I would be happy to sit down with the Member to figure out who told him that there would be no new positions, but that is not consistent with the messaging that I have given. I have always been consistent that there are no new programs. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Mr. O'Reilly.

Page 5427

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Far be it for me to complain about new positions in a facility that is in my riding, but certainly the messaging that I have been giving to my constituents was what I was told, was that the facility would operate with the same number of staff. So I will certainly correct my messaging. I am happy to sit down with the Minister to try to figure out why or who may have passed that information on. I just want it clearly understood now, and I regret if I have misled anybody, that it is going to require more staffing to run the new facility. That is all I have. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Further from committee? Seeing nothing, I will begin to call this activity, which spans two pages, so buckle in. Supplementary Estimates, (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 2018-2019, Health and Social Services, administrative and support services, not previously authorized, $2,864,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5427

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Health and Social Services, ambulatory care services, not previously authorized, $2,171,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5427

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Health and Social Services, community health programs, not previously authorized, $1,010,000. Does commit agree?

Page 5427

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Health and Social Services, diagnostic and therapeutic services, not previously authorized, $175,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5427

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Health and Social Services, nursing inpatient services, not previously authorized, $74,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5427

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Health and Social Services, supplementary health programs, not previously authorized, $501,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5427

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Health and Social Services, total department, $6,795,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5427

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Committee, please turn to page 7, Industry, Tourism and Investment. Seeing no comments or questions from committee, I will call this. Supplementary Estimates, (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 2018-2019, Industry, Tourism and Investment, economic diversification and business support, not previously authorized, $190,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5427

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Industry, Tourism and Investment, tourism and parks, not previously authorized, $122,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5427

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Industry, Tourism and Investment, total department, not previously authorized, $312,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5427

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Page 8, Infrastructure. Comments or questions. Mr. Beaulieu.

Page 5427

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Mr. Chairman, this is not on the first item, so these are the items for all of the infrastructure items? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Yes, the whole page.

Page 5427

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

The whole page? Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have questions, I guess, on the Taltson specifically. I would like to ask the Minister: this is to provide funding to support the Taltson hydro expansion. My understanding is that this is for engagement with the Aboriginal governments. Is this the case? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Page 5427

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Member is correct. It is for engagement with the Aboriginal governments. Thank you.

March 13th, 2019

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

Page 5427

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wonder if the Minister could tell me which of the Aboriginal governments will be engaged for this particular item, project. Thank you.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

Page 5427

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Through you, I would like to defer to Minister Schumann. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Minister Schumann.

Page 5427

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The people who we will be engaging with, who we have already reached out to, is the Akaitcho Government, the Salt River First Nation, and the Northwest Territories Metis Nation. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

Page 5427

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Does the Akaitcho government consist of the Deninu K'ue First Nations, Lutselk'e Dene First Nations, and the YK Dene First Nations? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Schumann.

Page 5427

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That is correct. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

Page 5427

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Mr. Chair, this is an operations expenditure. The operations expenditures run to March 31, 2019. This is 2018-2019, so has this work already started? I guess this could be applicable for the whole document, but I am specifically interested in this particular item. Is there a plan to spend $705,000 before March 31, 2019? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Who shall I direct this to? Minister McLeod.

Page 5427

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think you will go through me to defer to Minister Schumann. Okay, we will do that.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Schumann.

Page 5427

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are looking at doing a contribution agreement when we sit down and have a discussion with all of the Aboriginal groups on their participation, but some of that money is still for technical stuff, permitting and routing. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

Page 5427

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So the Minister is telling me that there will be a contribution agreement signed and delivered before March 31, 2019, plus the technical work will also be completed by March 31, 2019? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

Page 5427

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, through you, I think I should go to Minister Schumann. Otherwise, I would probably butcher it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Schumann.

Page 5427

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I have updated this House on this, we got this money from CanNor. It's some early funding to be able to have some conversations with the Aboriginal governments on their participation with the Slave Geological Province. There are a number of things that need to be done to bring this thing to a business case. It's going to take us three years to do this, but this was some early funding that the federal government has given us to entertain this, and we are hoping to have some positive news in the federal budget next week. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

Page 5427

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think the money is good. I am just wondering. I could almost say the thing again for the whole document, but just to put a point to it we have $705,000. We have maybe five organizations, separate organizations, or we could sign it with three organizations, I suppose, if the Akaitcho Government represents the three other governments that I spoke of earlier. So I guess, moving forward, considering again that this is an operations expenditure, the plan is to have that agreement in place, signed off, money transferred, expended by March 31^st, plus, I guess, paying for the technical report in addition to that. I am curious to know if that is even possible, but I would like to just get a "yea" or "nay" on that from the Minister. Thank you.

Page 5427

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Schumann.

Page 5428

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I said, in early discussions with the Aboriginal governments, we are hoping to sign an agreement with three groups. The Akaitcho is one united group. They can designate whoever they want to have as a lead, or maybe multiple jurisdictions as a lead. The Metis Nation is a single unit, and the Salt River First Nation is a unit. We will sit down and figure out our work plan and our various planning studies in environmental and community support and wildlife stuff that we have to do on this project. This is what we have budgeted for this year. As I have said, we are looking forward to some federal support in the budget. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Nothing further from Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. O'Reilly.

Page 5428

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. On the same page, there is $74,000 for Slave Geological Province Corridor. Can someone tell me what that money is for and whether it's going to get spent by March 31^st? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

Page 5428

Stewart

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In terms of the O and M money for this activity, I believe it's related to a variety of activities to help prepare for the planning related to the Slave Geological Province, including some work done by ITI for economic impacts and those sorts of things, and then I think there is some work planned that may be by 2019-2020 by ENR related to wildlife studies as well as work being done by Infrastructure for activities that are not capitalized in terms of the Slave Geological Province. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Page 5428

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I am certainly confused by this. This money, is it going to be carried over? I didn't think you could carry over O and M. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Kalgutkar.

Page 5428

Kalgutkar

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is my understanding that the two departments impacted by 2018-2019 are going to be spending all their money. To answer the Member's question on whether we carry over O and M funding, if O and M funding does lapse, we have in the past carried it over into 2019-2020 through a supp process. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Page 5428

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Is this the supp process, or is it going to come forward in a different supp? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Kalgutkar.

Page 5428

Kalgutkar

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If the departments are unable to spend all the $74,000 that could be approved in this supp, then whatever is left over and whatever is lapsed by the departments will be carried over into the first supp in 2019-2020. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Page 5428

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I think we have a 2019-2020 supp, which is going to come up next. How can we be carrying over money into that one when this hasn't even been spent yet? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

Page 5428

Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. If there was a need to carry over, there would be an additional supplementary appropriation in the May/June session. Thank you.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Page 5428

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. This funding is coming from the federal government. Is there a requirement for any matching funding from GNWT? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

Page 5428

Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. The matching GNWT portion for 2018-2019 is $15,600 from ITI and $3,000 from Infrastructure on the O and M side. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Page 5428

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I am going to leave this one alone, but it is going to come back. It is Slave Geological Province Road money, I think, under the 2019-2020 supps. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Further from committee? Seeing nothing, I will call this page. Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 2018-2019, Infrastructure, corporate management, not previously authorized, $74,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5428

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Infrastructure, programs and services, not previously authorized, $2,072,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5428

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Infrastructure, regional operations, not previously authorized, $1,397,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5428

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Infrastructure, total department, $3,543,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5428

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Page 9, Justice. Comments? Questions? Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 2018-2019, Justice, community justice and policing, not previously authorized, $113,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5428

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Justice, court services, not previously authorized, $145,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5428

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Justice, policing services, not previously authorized, $213,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5428

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Justice, services to government, not previously authorized, $10,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5428

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Justice, total department, not previously authorized, $481,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5428

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Committee, please turn to the final page, Municipal and Community Affairs. Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 2018-2019, Municipal and Community Affairs, regional operations, not previously authorized, $1,070,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5428

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Municipal and Community Affairs, total department, $1,070,000. Does committee agree?

Page 5428

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Does committee agree this concludes consideration of Tabled Document 382-18(3)?

Page 5428

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 5428

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Mr. Beaulieu.

Committee Motion 114-18(3): Concurrence of Tabled Document 381-18(3): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 4, 2018-2019, Carried

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