This is page numbers 5255 - 5298 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was housing. View the webstream of the day's session.

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Hagen

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, that is correct. We have a lot of cooperation. There is a lot of understanding of what we are trying to do. We are actually trying to protect the people of the regions who have the right to a harvesting cabin and don't necessarily require a lease. The Department of Lands would like to see everybody in a lease, although not necessarily having to pay the full amount if it is a traditional cabin, but a lease would enable us to be better land managers. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Have we gotten written confirmation from these groups that this is what we are doing, or has it been a gentlemen's agreement? I guess that's the question, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Hagen.

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Hagen

Yes, it wasn't our intention to get a signed agreement. We are engaging and, in some instances, consulting and cooperating with each Aboriginal or Indigenous government in each region. As I say, we are getting great cooperation. They now understand why we would like to identify the rights-based cabins in the regions, and they have the same desire, that people who are not from the region or don't have a lease are unauthorized occupiers of the land. They would also like them removed or get them into a lease.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Sebert would like to add something.

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes. I just want to add that, by our estimate, there are more than 700 structures on public land that do not have tenure. This is a problem throughout the North, and I understand that a pretty high percentage of these structures are actually in the area around Yellowknife. Now, some of these may include cabins that are associated with an assertion of Aboriginal rights.

It is a complex issue, but it is an important issue, because there are, as I say, hundreds of structures. Not all of those are cabins; they may be something less or something more than cabins, but it is an issue that is going to take time. It is complicated, also. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank Mr. Hagen and the Minister for that. I understand it's a complicated issue, and so I just wanted to make sure I understood, because some organizations have said they do not want to do it. Some have come up with some really creative solutions, so I am just trying to understand how the department was working towards making sure things are dealt with properly. I am content with the answers I received here today. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. McNeely.

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Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My contribution is more of an information statement here, just to share some light on the Sahtu land use planning. The organization shares office with the Sahtu Land and Water Board, and it seems to work out very cooperatively, operating both staff in the same building. Looking at the four settlement corporations here, to have one regime that is straight across the board that covers 66 percent of the territorial land quantum gives me comfort that the land use planning should go ahead so that it's all in compliance throughout forced settlement areas, with the same regime applicable to each department or each land area. I just share that with my colleagues here. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. More of a comment from Mr. McNeely. Next on the list, Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I realize I am the only thing standing between folks and dinner. I want to ask about the fabled project assessment policy, because it does not seem to be working out very well. The Tlicho All-Season Road, I guess it was used there, and the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board was highly critical of our government's involvement in that environmental assessment. Can the Minister confirm for me that the project assessment policy was applied to TerraX in their recent application for exploration in the Yellowknife area? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Hagen.

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Hagen

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Well, I guess for one thing, we have a difference of opinion. I think the assessment policy worked very well and was very successful in the Tlicho All-Season Road. We went through a very complicated environmental assessment. We got through it. It was signed off by the feds and planned off by my Minister, and it's now in the licensing and permitting, and that will be all done by fall, when, hopefully, they will be starting construction. As for TerraX, I think you are well aware that there was some delay in getting them a water licence, which they should have today, actually, but they have decided to cancel their program for the winter. Yes, we are going to use the assessment process where all departments are working together and Department of Lands is coordinating the regulatory process going forward with TerraX. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. The Minister would like to add something. Minister.

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to let the Member know that the Department of Lands is coordinating a GNWT-wide review of the project assessment function to identify areas where we might make improvements and to identify priorities. Also, we are coordinating, the department, a GNWT-wide "lessons learned" exercise on the Tlicho All-Season Road environmental assessment, so we are looking at the past to make sure that we can make improvements on the future. My final statement is one I know will be accepted well by the Member: the GNWT manages its various roles as proponent and regulatory decision-maker to avoid any real or perceived apprehension of bias.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks. That is great. I appreciate that sentiment from the Minister. I did want to reply to one of Mr. Hagen's comments. It's not me saying that the GNWT did not participate well in the Tlicho All-Season Road. That comes from the review board itself, in the developer's assessment report. The review board was highly critical of our government on the Tlicho All-Season Road. TerraX is not proceeding with its exploration this winter. This project assessment policy does not seem to be working very well. The Minister talked about how there is going to be a "lessons learned" coming out of the Tlicho All-Season Road environmental assessment. Has that been completed, and can the Minister share that with the standing committee? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Hagen.

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Hagen

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The fact that TerraX is not proceeding has nothing to do, absolutely nothing to do, with the policy at all. They decided not to go forward because they did not get a class B water licence in time. Part of that was the Department of Fisheries and Oceans holding up the process, not deliberately. Once they decide they are going to move forward, which I assume will be perhaps even this summer, then we will be back in with the policy and coordinating all of the departments together. So it works very well, and we will do a "lessons learned" on the Tlicho All-Season Road. Although, from where I sit, there are really not a lot of lessons to be learned. It was well carried out. It was successful. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Please, Mr. Chair. That didn't really answer my question: has that exercise been completed, and, if so or if it's going to be happening in the future, can the Minister agree to share the report with the standing committee? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Sebert.

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

This review of lessons learned or this exercise to examine the Tlicho All-Season Road assessment, we are coordinating, as I say, a GNWT-wide "lessons learned" exercise. That has not yet been completed. If it is and when it is completed, if I have the ability to do so, I will share it with committee. I do appreciate the Member's concern about this whole area, and I did not mean to make light of the fact that we are the proponent and regulator on some projects. It does have its complexities, which I understand. I can't think of a different or better way of being both proponent and regulatory decision-maker, but, certainly, we have to review our project assessment function to make sure that it's transparent and works well. This is going to be an ongoing issue, and I just want Members to know that we are looking at making improvements. I think perhaps Mr. Hagen would like to elaborate on that. Thank you.