This is page numbers 5601 - 5648 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was public. View the webstream of the day's session.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are just trying to figure out if it's new money or old money. This year's investment into early childhood development is $11.6 million for 2019-2020; $8.9 million of that is from the GNWT, $2.6 million is from Canada, for a total of $11.6 million in investments. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, I note I think we are spending $60 million on the Tlicho all-season road this year; spending on the Tuktoyaktuk road was $300 million over three years. I think I've made my case.

If we want to improve the future prospects of this territory, we have to put more money into early childhood development, case closed. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you. Again, the three-year total for the federal is $7 million, and two point something of that a year, so it's a three-year funding agreement.

You're right. I have to say the MLAs are right. We're not putting enough investment into early childhood development, but, as has been said by many Ministers at the table, our whole budget is $1.6 billion, or something like that, and there's not enough money to go around. I don't see that we should take all from one. I think maybe we need to look at the balance, but I do believe in balance. I believe that we need to have early childhood development, we need to have justice services, we need to have health services, housing programs, and we need infrastructure. Those highways actually bring economic development, and they bring jobs for communities. Not to say that I'd like to spend as much, but I do think that we need to look at a balance across all. It can't be one or the other. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly, your time has expired. Next, we have Mr. Blake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Minister is bringing up Tsiigehtchic here, and the community did identify one of their buildings, which they renovated. Everything was all set to go, but then, because we didn't get the attendance that's required, it seems that we lost our funding. So I think, in cases like this, we need to be more flexible. I know the community was estimating 15 to 20 children attending, but when we had only three to five at times, it all depends on the parents' schedules. If there's no work in the mornings, then they bring them in in the afternoon, but it seemed like the timing of ECE's staff is visiting the community, it seems to me they felt like there was inadequate attendance. It seems like that's what was the big holdup on all our funding.

In cases like this, will the Minister be more flexible with the community? It's creating jobs in the community, plus giving the children a good start, learning different things with the child care providers. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I agree with the Member, again. Tsiigehtchic is a good example of how we tried to go in there. The attendance was low, but it wasn't ECE that pulled the funding. It was a decision by the community. We're more than willing to go back in and reinstate the funding, but it's sustainability of programs. That's why I'm saying that we need to start looking outside the box. We need to look at different solutions, because right now we base it on head count, between $15-something a day up to $49 a day for children. $49 a day, $50 a day, is a pretty good supplement, and then parents do that on top. So it's a matter of equity. If we do that in Yellowknife, with the regional centres, and we pay $50 a day in Tsiigehtchic and they only have one child, that $50 a day might not make that person want to stay there, especially if the parent doesn't want to pay anything, which I've seen in some communities that they don't want to pay any money.

In the regional centres, especially Yellowknife, they're more used to it. A parent knows that, when they go to daycare, they have to pay up to $1,000 a month. That's an expectation, but the smaller communities aren't always on that. So, like I had said before, we need to be flexible. We need to look outside the box. I'm not willing to be unfair and say, okay, we'll pay 100 percent in one community and we'll only supplement another community, because that's not being equitable, but working with the communities closely and seeing how we can address their needs, and I'll go back to Enterprise, because it was brought up by MLA Green, Enterprise is one of the communities that had an issue. They thought outside the box. So when I was there, actually, they were saying that the smaller children, because it was Aboriginal Head Start versus JK, and that's how we started the conversation, so they said they were worried about Aboriginal Head Start being sustainable with the introduction of JK. We gave funding to the school for JK. The kids enroled, and then they didn't want to be in JK. Those children decided to go to Aboriginal Head start, so our JK there is empty.

What I did like about the Aboriginal Head Start, and that's thinking out of the box, is that a wonderful woman said that, "We take the younger children, too." So their Aboriginal Head Start is not defined by the parameters of the program; they've actually been flexible, and I think that's what I say, is that we need to look at each community individually and see how we can work to support those children. Does Enterprise now need a licensed daycare centre? Probably not. If they're numbers for Aboriginal Head Start are not full, like my understanding is, if they're accommodating the younger children, then why wouldn't we support that kind of programming?

Again, it's thinking outside the box. Each community is different, and we need to look at those communities, making sure that we have a lens that is equal. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Mr. Blake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just moving forward, the concern always comes up in the community to have a daycare and, moving forward, it seems like the Minister is leaning towards being a little more flexible of the rules, so I guess that's a good start, and we'll just take it from there. I'll hold her to her word. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Mr. Beaulieu.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to start off with a question for the Minister on junior kindergarten. Although junior kindergarten is not compulsive at this time, I was wondering if, when they do get into school and they are signed up, at that point does attendance become compulsory? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you. Attendance being compulsory is not something that I would actually commit to at this moment. The reason I'm not willing to commit to that is because we need to look at that. At my last education meeting with the superintendents and chairs of all the school boards across the Northwest Territories, I brought up the issue of attendance because it's a concern of mine, and I said that, in the next Assembly, we need to look at attendance because, if we can't get the kids to school, we're not going to be able to get them educated and they're not going to succeed.

One thing I did hear, and I believe it was the Tlicho Government, actually, that said to me, "We tried the truancy officer thing. It did not work." So that told me that I don't want to go to a system where attendance is mandatory, and all of a sudden we're locking up children or parents, because that will drive them underground more. So what we need to do is find a better way to support them. I don't know what that answer is, whether it's picking up children, knocking on doors. I know that some communities have done that, smaller communities. They've actually gone and knocked on doors. That might not be feasible in big communities, but we need to start thinking, again, outside the box. It needs to be a discussion. If we can't get the kids to the school, we can't help them succeed, so it is a huge concern that we need to address. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Mr. Beaulieu, anything further?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don't think I made myself clear. I'm asking if, once a junior kindergarten student has registered, does their attendance become compulsory like everybody else in the school? I'm going to make the assumption, whether you want to call it compulsory or mandatory, kids who enter kindergarten, grade one, two, three, to 12 or up to 10 or whatever, that attendance is mandatory. My question is: I recognize that junior kindergarten is not compulsory, but once they become students, is their attendance compulsory at that point?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Right at the current time, junior kindergarten and kindergarten are not compulsory. We need to be flexible with them, and I'm not sure if we want to actually broach on making them compulsory because we need the flexibility to be able to work with communities such as communities that have Aboriginal Head Start. I'm an advocate of Aboriginal Head Start. I think it's a great program. They've asked us to be flexible in the programming, so some programs like Fort Providence are not even doing their JK. Actually, they're doing just the Aboriginal Head Start. Other places are having Aboriginal Head Start in the schools. Other places are doing half-time junior kindergarten and half-time Aboriginal Head Start. Some people are just doing JK. We need that flexibility because no community is the same. Each community has unique situations, and we need to work with the communities where they are to address their needs to provide services for children. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Minister, could you clarify? If a child enrols in junior kindergarten, is that child's attendance then compulsory? Thank you.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. No child who is enroled in junior kindergarten or kindergarten is it compulsory that they attend. It's an optional programming, both of them. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a real issue with that. I recognize that people have the option to put their children in junior kindergarten or kindergarten. Once they make the decision to go to junior kindergarten, or send their children to junior kindergarten or kindergarten, once they make that decision in September and the kid enrols in school, then the Minister is saying that kid can come and go as they please throughout the whole year; that, if they want to attend two or three days a month, that's still okay. I think we have to nail down that first before we start talking about even the early development instrument. I think the early development instrument, I believe, is actually something that occurs in February of kindergarten year. How do we keep track of these if the kids who sign up to go to school, then, once they're enroled in school, are free to come and go as they please? I'm wondering what the policy is around that? That doesn't sound correct to me. I'd like to just look for clarification on that at this point. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. At this point, anyone who is in junior kindergarten, it is an optional program. They don't have to be there. They can have the flexibility. Like I said, some are in half days, some are full days, some don't even choose. Not every child who is four years old is in junior kindergarten in the Northwest Territories.

I'd be a little bit leery to say that, once you enrol, that's it, you're locked in, and you have to be there every day, because I'm not sure if that's the intent. We've had kindergarten in the Northwest Territories. I'm 58 years old, and we had kindergarten. I remember when I think it came in, like 50 years ago. Kindergarten has never been compulsory, so I'm not sure why we would be expecting that we would turn it into a compulsory JK and kindergarten. Children who are four years old are pretty sensitive. Do we want to say that, or do we want to be able to have the flexibility that, if that four-year-old child is feeling like staying at home with mom or dad or grandma, that they have that option to do that without being penalized? We have to look at the developmental assets of that age cohort, as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.