This is page numbers 2637 - 2658 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was community.

Topics

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to the Member for his question and his constant advocating for the Ingraham Trail. I want to make it very clear to the territory, as well, that Ingraham Trail is located outside of a municipality. It's a cabin built-up area designated now as a recreational area. It is not designated as a hamlet, charter community, municipality, so extending our services outside of the boundary, I'm not familiar with the agreement that they may have had with the city for the years to come. Now, the city has decided to discontinue that agreement for Ingraham Trail.

I want to also just comment and say that, throughout the territory, we do have built-up areas such as these throughout the territory and are looking at providing services to Ingraham Trail. I am very mindful of the time that it would take from Yellowknife into Ingraham Trail to fight a fire. I take all of that into consideration, as well, but just to get back to the Member's question about the funding that he had requested, the $1.7 million, that was a number that was provided by the City of Yellowknife in, exactly, looking for staff and supports and training and equipment, as well. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

I think the unfortunate reality here is that the residents who built their houses and have lived out there for decades with fire services kind of expected them to continue. Now, the city and the GNWT are in some sort of fight over jurisdiction, and it seems the city wants $1.7 million to accommodate. The loss is really to the people, to my constituents, while this kind of fight between governments occurs. However, I never viewed this as a $1.2-million-annual problem. I thought the city was more in the hundred-thousand-dollar range, that we were going to get this to continue. It is one fire a year. Has the GNWT gone back to the city and made a lower offer? Perhaps we could start this engagement and this conversation at a much more reasonable figure.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Yes, the department did go back to the City of Yellowknife to look at the reduced number and what it would cost for fire services. I also want to elaborate, as well, that we did speak to the community of Dettah as they were interested in providing fire services, as well. However, I just really want to emphasize the distance. The distance, this is a cabin built-up area. I know there are residents at Ingraham Trail, but this is not a community. It is not a disagreement between a municipality and the GNWT. It's finding a solution, an adequate solution, and looking at who are we going to train, who is going to actually offer the services. If we do come to an agreement and if the government had said, "Okay. Here we are. We have money to fund the fire services," there is nobody who wants to provide that service right now. Looking at the City of Yellowknife, it's almost putting them under an obligation, saying this service is required. We are continuing those conversations with the City of Yellowknife, but we are in a really different scenario right now. MACA provides funding to the municipalities. We do not provide funding to cabin built-up areas.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

This is stemming from the larger long-standing issues where the GNWT and federal government gave a bunch of people fee simple, they started allowing more and more leases, and they created a cabin built-up area, as the Minister refers to it. However, it is not designated as anything, and people on the trail pay taxes every year and receive no services. They live off grid. They do not receive power, water, or sewer, so it has fallen into this area where, the Minister is completely right, it's confusing who exactly is responsible for what.

However, one of the concerns I have is that the department is going out, and they are consulting that this $1.2 million annually would have to be paid completely by the residents of the trail at a rate of $4,000 a year, which would be higher than the average property taxes in Yellowknife. It will be higher than any other community pays in property taxes. It's a figure that has no basis in how any of our built-up areas work, designated or not. Is the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs willing to pay for any part of an agreement that could be reached going forward?

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Short answer: no. We are looking at a possibility and an agreement with Ingraham Trail and continue talks with the City of Yellowknife. We are going out there. We are talking to residents. We are making an effort. However, it is a built-up area; this is a cabin area. We have areas throughout the territory that -- what are we going to start doing? Are we going to be going out to each cabin lease, and are we going to be starting to fight those fires? Looking at this, Ingraham Trail, it's very unique. We are conducting conversations with the residents at Ingraham Trail, and we continue speaking with the City of Yellowknife. I appreciate the Member bringing this up, and I hope that we are able to come to a solution.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If it was the department's position that at no point was the GNWT going to pay for any of this service, it would have been very helpful to know that in October because it completely changes the whole conversation if they had to approach the city and completely fund this with their own taxes. Currently, residents on the Ingraham Trail, they pay taxes every year. They receive zero services for those taxes. Is the Minister willing to take some of the taxes that residents pay and use that, those taxes that already exist, as a portion of any agreement that could be reached going forward? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

The Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is responsible for the assessment. We are not responsible for collecting the taxes. However, I just note: I want to let the Member know that the conversation that would have happened in October, November, December, this is the result of the conversation and looking at the $1.7 million. That was not identified before Christmas, and now we have numbers. We are trying to work with the residents. We are getting out there. We are doing the assessments and trying to come together to find a solution. This is going to continue, conversation that is happening between my department and the residents of Ingraham Trail and also continuous conversation with the community of Dettah and with the City of Yellowknife, so there is a lot of effort that is being made to come up with a solution for Ingraham Trail. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. I have spoken numerous times in the House before about the community residency policy. That is a policy that demands that NWT residents live in an NWT community for varying times up to one year before they can add their names to the public housing wait list. Can the Minister of housing speak to the goal of this policy? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Through this policy, we have to display fairness and consistency throughout the territory. If we do not have this residency policy, we could have people throughout Canada coming into our territory and sitting on our wait list and having us not being able to properly and structurally, I want to say, allocate these units. We do have a strong and a long wait list, but the one-year policy that has been created for residency for the Northwest Territories is for the people of the Northwest Territories and newcomers coming into the territory, as well. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

I appreciate the Minister's reference to fairness. I think that that is a fair comment, and I think that fairness is important. I think that fairness needs to be extended to the residents of the Northwest Territories, where we really do struggle with housing and people want fair access to safe and secure housing. This policy does not only prevent people from the rest of Canada putting their names on housing wait lists. It prevents Northwest Territories residents from putting their names on wait lists, from other communities. I think that that's why I keep asking these questions, is because I think this policy really needs to be revamped.

I think of different people across even Canada. When we look to our history, there are people from the Sixties Scoop who were adopted out to other families and might be living in other regions of Canada and might want to return home. There are people living in Yellowknife who might want the opportunity to return to their birth community, as well, and people living in communities who might want to be able to move to Yellowknife. I think that we need to look at this. However, I am wondering if the Minister can speak to what issue the community residency policy was originally trying to address and what was the original purpose of it.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

The policy is to address the housing needs in that specific community. Since being Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, I have had several enquiries coming forward. We had families fleeing domestic abuse who we have had to relocate, and with that, we were able to work with those communities and the local LHOs that had created bylaws to address those unique situations. Also, we have students who are returning back from school, back to their home communities, where we are able to hold their unit for them, being able to house them upon their return.

However, then, I also really want to stress that we need a residency policy throughout the Northwest Territories. We need to show fairness and consistency. If we did not have this policy, we would have people and the waiting list exaggerated to a point where we were not able to work with that strongly. I want to be able to just really display that or really acknowledge that I do see that, where people are moving around throughout the territory, they have very unique, different situation, but we also have a wait list of people who are local, who are from the community, who have been on the wait list five, three, six months, it doesn't matter. We need to address the home community first.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

I appreciate what the Minister is saying about addressing the home community first and about making sure that people from the community have access to housing in that community. Sometimes, what happens is people end up living in other communities for one reason or another, and I think there are other ways that we can address this policy and make it achieve both of our ends. I am wondering if the Minister would be willing to look at community membership or land claim beneficiary membership in lieu of a community residency policy to ensure that even people who have moved away, who are still land claim beneficiaries of the region, are still able to be prioritized within the public housing wait list.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

The policy has created, as I said, fairness. Public housing is available for everybody. Looking at the residency requirements, I don't want to create silos, and I don't want to create division amongst that waiting list and amongst decisions being made at the local community level. Looking at that, I just want to also elaborate that the Housing Corporation works strongly with Indigenous groups throughout the territory. We just announced a $60 million co-investment fund that has been exhausted for the territory, and we do have Indigenous applications, people and groups who are coming forward wanting to address their wait lists and housing needs in their specific communities.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Just as a final question today, I am wondering if the Housing Corporation has ever reviewed the unintended consequences of this policy. If yes, what have they found, and if not, why not and would they be willing to look into that? Thank you.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Yes, we have been speaking about this policy. Like I had said, I want to make sure that the policy is fair. We travel throughout the Northwest Territories. I see the wait lists myself, and I see the community residents. They are homeless, and they are travelling, and they are house to house. There's overcrowding. That is what I would like to address first. Then, when we have community members who are wanting to move back into the Northwest Territories, we need to work with that. Already, if they are entering into one of our smaller communities, we already have a wait list that is significant. The need for housing, I hear you, is pretty much a crisis in the territory.

I just want to elaborate and speak about the co-investment fund. That was a strong relationship that we did have with the federal government to exhaust that co-investment fund when the expiry date for that was 2028, we were able to exhaust it in three years. That displays what a housing crisis we have in the Northwest Territories. It is significant. We need more money to put houses on the ground. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Hay River South.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hay River is preparing for spring breakup and possible flooding. It could be happening while we are sitting in May. Can the Minister of MACA confirm what supports the town of Hay River and residents can expect from her department during this breakup, if any supports at all? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The town of Hay River had experienced this just last spring. Municipal and Community Affairs did provide assistance in working with those residents and looking at the affected areas. I will follow up with the Member. I was briefed at my last briefing for the town of Hay River that they were working on a federal application for the disaster fund to work with those affected residents by the high water levels. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

I think she misunderstood my question; it was what they are going to do for breakup this year. In the fall of last year, due to high water levels and high winds, businesses and residents experienced loss and damage to infrastructure and property with little support and little to no financial support from this government. Can we expect the same treatment, or are we going to show some compassion if the same thing happens during this breakup?