Masi, Madam Chair. Just, I know we've touched on this with the Minister, the walk-in freezer for a whopping $150,000. Is it necessary to have a freezer? Because if there's meat that's seized from the hunters, usually it goes to the communities. It should go to the communities. If you have meat in a freezer for over a year, obviously it goes bad. And I think there was a process where they usually take footage of what they've seized from -- or taken from the hunters, and that's proof as evidence. And I'm just wondering why we need a walk-in freezer for $150,000 to store the meat that's been taken away from hunters that should be going to the communities. So I'm just curious, Madam Chair. Masi.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I think the Minister of ENR is quite keen to speak to this one, please.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you, Minister. Minister of ENR.

Thank you, Madam Chair. We need the freezer because we had over 150 -- or 140 caribou that were killed illegally in the mobile zone. Unfortunately, we can't cut up the meat and put it away. We need to have it as evidence. We've seen a court case now that they actually -- the JP actually said we have to give some caribou back and they wanted exactly what he killed. So we need the unit to be able to store the caribou, the evidence, until the court case is dealt with. Once the court case is dealt with, we then give the meat out to the communities that did not -- I repeat, did not be part of the illegal hunt. So if community A did the illegal hunt, we would give the meat to community B, C, and D. So we need the -- this $150,000 freezer to make sure that we keep the caribou that are illegally killed intact. They're cleaned out, but they're kept intact and we need to keep -- be able to put them in there. And as you're well aware, trying to put these 150 caribou into a nice, small freezer does not work. Thank you, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you, Minister. Member for Monfwi.

Masi, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, it's very difficult to accept that. The 150 caribou is obviously stored in the freezer will not be presented in court, the actual meat. It will be stored in a freezer and freezer burnt and such, and after a year, five years, nobody will want that kind of meat. Madam Chair, for $150,000 that can create a teacher position in the community or a renewable resource officer position that can monitor these illegal hunters. I think we can go more -- we can do more with this money than an actual freezer where we can have footage of -- pictures, have the pictures presented. It's always been a case where court proceedings, evidence is always pictures. It's not actual caribou in a courtroom. So I find that hard to believe, where we're pushing for this freezer into this budget area of ENR where I feel that they should be expended elsewhere. And I -- you know, the Minister came out with some arguments of 150 illegal caribou that's been hunted but it will not be presented in a courtroom. The actual caribou meat per se, Madam Chair, so. It's very hard to justify, approving this 150,000 for a freezer that's, I don't think it's needed. We've been doing without it all these years. And, yes, there's been illegal hunt, but, you know, after we do captures of all the evidence, the pictures, the case, the reports, then give out the meat. Why sit on the meat? Like, it's badly needed in the communities. We're forced not to hunt in our own backyard and share. We have to store them until such years. I'm not sure how long. So, yeah, Madam Chair, just it's frustrating sitting here and looking at this $150,000. It can be much better spent elsewhere. Let's hire more officers. Let's hire traditional hunters to work with these ENR officers. That's better well spent than the freezer. That's my take, Madam Chair. Masi.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Minister of Finance, did you have any comment?

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I mean I certainly sympathize that it's a lot of money for what it's, you know, essentially being portrayed as being an evidence locker but, in this particular case, because they are dealing with obviously hunters, if, in fact, a case is found where the hunter may not have been hunting illegally, well then that meat needs to go back to that hunter and their family; it wouldn't necessarily get distributed to other members of other communities. So I think that's part of the challenge that is faced, and is particularly in the North Slave Region where, I understand, there are smaller freezers available for smaller -- for other communities to store meat generally. But in this case, the amount of meat that is being seized in the North Slave Region as a result of investigation processes before the resolution of the file is putting them in a situation where, you know, they don't know the resolution of the case, don't know yet who's going to have access to that meat, don't want to have wastage, and that's -- I think that's part of the reason for the need here. It's certainly not to bring meat into the courtrooms. And it's an intention to do what I think the Member was initially getting at - to not waste the meat but to make sure it goes to the right party. Thanks, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you, Minister. Member for Monfwi.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, that level of question around what ENR may have done I would say is appropriate to turn to the Minister of ENR, please.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you. Minister of ENR.

So thank you. No, we didn't go out and engage with our Indigenous elders and that to get the freezer. We are trying to make -- have a place where we can keep the evidence within -- so it doesn't melt, it doesn't get destroyed, and we can -- after the court case, then we give it out. It's not years. It's not a year. It's within a timeframe that we have the court system and we need to follow the court system. And what we found, just recently in our last court case that went in there, basically we were told we had to give back two caribou. Two caribou - exactly. We had a caribou that was missing a part and we could get charged with contempt.

I understand the frustration here, but -- I would love to not have people out there illegally hunting. We have amazing hunters out there that have done a great job. Unfortunately, we have individuals who do not hunt responsibly and we need to put these -- this meat in a freezer so that we can follow the court system and once the court system is done, within a timely manner the meat is distributed to our Indigenous partners or the communities that do not do the illegal hunt.

I understand the frustration. I'd love to say we could spend more money but we need to do it so we can do things legally. Thank you, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you. Member for Monfwi.

Masi, Madam Chair. I only have 30 seconds here, but due to these issues or committing $150,000 towards a freezer, there hasn't been any engagement with harvesters. That's why we're questioning things here in the House. We need to be accountable, accountable government. And where does the issue lie? The issue lies with illegal hunting. Let's put our manpower towards that. Let's have a monitor mechanism, enforce that even further. That $150,000 can go towards that; that's what I'm saying. But obviously the Minister and the government feel -- doesn't feel the same way. So I'll just leave it at that. It's on the record. Masi.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to not comment on the caribou issue here. I guess -- or stepping back, you know, I think in our operations budget, we still have a bit of a problem with departments in March madness and then with our Infrastructure budgets, we seem to have an obvious problem where we can't get money out the door and we see these quite a large carryovers. And I guess, I don't want to get too much into the details, but there's $70,000 for a patrol vehicle here. How do we not manage to buy a vehicle with any -- and why does something like that have to go all the way back up to the Financial Management Board and come back to the floor of the House? I just don't understand how that can even happen, how we can't get the money out the door. Thank you, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I was thinking I had the opportunity to speak a little more to -- broadly, as to why we have carryovers and how that works. But if the question is specifically about a patrol vehicle, I can certainly turn that over to Mr. Courtoreille.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Mr. Courtoreille.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'll bite. I'm wondering if the Minister can then please provide some information on carryovers, especially when, in a COVID time, we are very dependent on government finances in order to keep businesses working. And I'm also wondering if, in that explanation, the Minister can also speak to the difference between carryovers and lapses. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, thank you. So Madam Chair, I'm happy to speak to that under any context here, so -- and I know that this was raised originally by one of the other Members earlier with the description that sometimes the capital plan is, you know, described as unrealistic. But the reality is we are right now constrained by the fact that we have to do year over year appropriations so that for every project, no matter what size or how large, from buying of a vehicle up to the construction of a health centre, you know, we have to come back every year. These are -- many of these projects are not year over year contracts. Many of them are in fact going to be multi-year projects, many-year projects involving, you know, tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars to their completion, so. And yet we have to come back every year and put a number in to reflect some sort of estimate of spending. And the challenging part, or one of the challenging parts of that of course, is that often, and happily, we have a lot of federal dollars that we are being funded from various funding pots out of the federal government, which then may not necessarily line up with the project itself. So it may be that the project gets four years of federal funding spread equally in portions of over those four years and we have to provide our own contribution to it when, in fact, the project is going to be only a small amount spent in the first year, a lot spent in the second and third, and then a small amount spent as it's wrapping up in the fourth year. But the amount that's not being spent in that first year simply gets carried forward to when it does get spent. So some of this problem, some of this challenge, really is just the fact of how the projects are unfolding and then they, you know, wind up getting carried over to reflect when the work's actually getting done because it's a big project and it takes time to get going. I think I hit all the highlights there, Madam Chair. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you, Minister. Any further questions, comments under this? Seeing none, I will call that page.

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022. Department of Environment and Natural Resources, capital investment expenditures, wildlife and fish, not previously authorized $1,314,000. Does committee agree?

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. You know, and I get -- I understand the building of infrastructure climate in the North and that it is very difficult and that the federal government flows on multi-year funding. I don't understand the software climate in the government. But as far as I can tell, information systems shared services cannot seem to get its projects done on time and on budget and there's $7 million here to purchase software. So I don't know how we can blame COVID or a barging system or anything else. So can I just get a bit of an explanation of why we are seeing a lot of these programs and softwares, which I'm quite excited for, further carried over? And I know a couple of these are far from being done. Thank you, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, so I am also very excited about a lot of these projects but I will say it's not a simple matter of purchasing software the way I might go down and get a new Microsoft Outlook or whatever other brand one might choose to use. These are projects that involve going back to individual departments, and often multiple departments, in order to determine the needs, in order to bring everything together in terms of responding to the various needs, the data needs, converting data. You know, I'm seeing that having, in many occasions as the Minister responsible, gone back to our chief information officer and ask for detailed explanations project by project as to the status and what's gone wrong and why it's not being advanced as quickly as I might like. And as any one of us might like. But, you know, because it's not a simple matter of just going out and turning on a switch. There's a large amount of data that is under old systems that needs to be converted in some cases. There's translation issues in some cases. And, you know, in other instances, there simply are opportunities that come up to -- I mean, one example I might give actually would be under the -- with respect to the Mineral Resources Act and work that's happening there and trying to make sure that the regulatory system is ready to go. So I mean, I've given a few explanations. I think there's enough time, Madam Chair. I might just suggest if I could send it to Mr. Courtoreille, who I know had some of the details about different projects and if he could speak again, just generally, to the ISSS projects and some of the reasons for individual delays. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you. Mr. Courtoreille

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I struggle sometimes to understand the whole information system shared services and the IT world, but I also struggle to understand why it moves so slowly sometimes. I guess I'd like to narrow in a little here on the Mineral Administration Registry system, the MARS system. My understanding is that the $1.2 million carried over here is actually total of something about 4.5 million for our new mineral registry system. Can I get an update on when that will be complete and, more specifically, when we will have online MAP staking in the NWT. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I am also quite keen to pay attention to this particular project. And I will admit I don't necessarily have my ITI binders open in front of me at the moment, but. So let me commit to ensuring that we give a full update to the House with respect to the MARS system program. I believe, actually now, part of the delay here is in fact to make it something's that's even better, so there were delays. There were delays in terms of preparing the regulations from under the Mineral Resources Act last spring as a result of COVID. And then, you know, hiring challenges again last spring and summer when the focus of hiring was with respect to responding to the pandemic. Things are already in place, people are in place, and the work to deliver on the regulatory framework that would -- wherein this system would have to fit is now underway. So it's moving along and as far as an updated timeline, again I do have it, just not in front of me. So I will certainly commit to providing that. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I'm going to try and get one more commitment out of the Minister. We have spoken before about the GNWT online services program. I see phase two is in here. There are a number of great services. We are moving online and I know that has been delayed. Can we get a commitment out of the Minister to get an update on the GNWT online services program? Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you, Member. Minister

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I do have a date in my head but I don't want to get it wrong. Let me turn it to Mr. Koe and see if he has that date in front of him, please.

CHAIRPERSON (MS. SEMMLER) Thank you. Mr. Koe.