Deputy minister.

Mahsi. Any other questions from committee? Ms. Nokleby.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess just further along these lines, has there ever actually been incidents of caribou or wildlife being harassed by drilling companies that have been charged or that the Minister is aware of? Thank you.

Mahsi, Ms. Nokleby. Minister.

Thank you. Not during my time, but I will turn to the deputy minister for -- maybe there's more information available that I'm not aware of. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Deputy minister.

Mahsi. Ms. Nokleby.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Perhaps just a moment where I should have been more careful with the words that I chose in that I guess in my time in working in the field and on drill rigs etcetera, it was fairly understood and common practice that we were not doing anything that was to impact or impede wildlife, including even going to the bathroom on the tundra at times. So I guess I just wanted to hear that, you know, reassurance that there hasn't really been a problem here. And I am glad to hear that industry is working with the department. And at times, I know I had heard a lot from industry about them wanting to have the buy-in, the social buy-in, they want to follow our rules, and really the biggest issue seemed to be was more just about clarity and how do they go through that process versus actual any issues with the processes itself. They just mostly want to know about navigating it and making sure that it's applied fairly across the board so that they can anticipate things ahead of time and not have surprises. So I was just curious to know if that was the case. So thank you. More of a comment than anything, Mr. Chair.

Mahsi, Ms. Nokleby. Minister, do you have anything to say? No, good? Any further -- oh, sorry, excuse me. Ms. Weyallon-Armstrong.

Okay, thank you. Thank you. I know this will take a political will. As a result of the restriction that is in place, when you look at it, it just seems like, okay, Tlicho people are allowed to go hunting once a year because of the restriction. At the same time, I know there's lot of us, you know, we do respect the work that was done by the Indigenous government and by the knowledge-keeper and the boards regarding the conservation as noted. We do respect that. But the current mobile that is in place right now, it's almost the size of the 39,000 square kilometres. That's the size of Tlicho land. And as reported before, it's almost the size as Nova Scotia. That's the mobile zone. That's the current mobile zone that is in place. Just want to know if there is a way the department can reduce the zone to give people a chance to harvest caribou for their families and communities.

Like I said yesterday too, Gameti ice road, winter road is open. So those people are going to be travelling. And the Wekweti too, it's going to be -- the ice road is going to be opening soon. It is in the process. So the department needs to take into consideration when the people go hunting, they're coming from a long ways and there is a wear and tear on their hunting equipments. There's the snow machines; you know, like the sled. Everything, toboggans. There's all kinds of things that has to be taken into consideration. But these people are providing for their families in the small communities, and it's only once a year. So people in the small communities, they are already struggling as it is with the high cost of living. And the restriction, it's a burden; we know that. It is a burden for lot of people. So that's not the only problem that I have -- or not that I have, but many of my constituent have, because I just talked to somebody today and said the seizure of caribou and of their hunting equipment, that's a problem for them, you know, because they're not coming from, like, a short distance. They're coming -- some of them -- like, in order to travel from Behchoko to all the way there is, like, 12 hours. So they're going from a long ways. And even like with the GNWT health status report that I said the day before in my Member's statement, there is not enough jobs in the communities. So how can people make a sustainable living without their hunting equipments? So we have to take that into consideration. There's not enough jobs, and then not enough money for them to pay the court to, you know, to get their -- for their hunting equipment and all that. So there's not enough. So we have to take that into consideration too. Also the cost, the court cost. That's what I'm talking about. And just like yesterday when I was talking to one of the young parent, she said if my husband was not -- my spouse was not a hunter, a trapper, and a fisherman, my family would be starving.

And lot of the small communities, they rely on the country food. And right now, because of the restriction that is in place, like I said we do respect, you know, the work that are being done, but what people would like to see is that -- from my conversations -- and I talk to Shane -- to the Minister's assistant today before too. So what the people would like to see is that to give them a chance to reduce the mobile zone, give them a chance to go hunting to provide for their families and the communities. At least give them time.

I know you guys are going to be following the regulations. You're going to be saying, okay, well, we have to follow, we have to call Wek'eezhii, all those other people, you know, that are part of the regulations. But the assistant said it's going to take, like, at least 60 days to, you know -- to get the word out. But we don't have 60 days. By the time that you guys do something about it, hunting season's going to be over and -- well, not the hunting season is going to be over, it's just that the winter road is going to be out so it's -- there's no -- how are they going to go travel to the tundra? So that is the problem.

So what I would like to see is that if this government -- if the government, the RWED, can reduce the mobile zone, give people a chance to go out hunting for their families and for their community, harvest caribou before the ice road close. So that's what I would like to see. That's what the people are asking. So that's why I am addressing it as it is now. Thank you.

Mahsi, Ms. Weyallon-Armstrong. Minister.

Thank you. I'll start, and then I'll ask to -- you to turn to the deputy minister.

When I first became the Minister of ENR, the first thing I said to the department, I do not want to be the Minister responsible for no caribou in the Northwest Territories. I made that very clear. As we are all aware, the Bathurst caribou herd is facing a serious conservation concern and is currently at record low numbers. The latest population survey, just this June 2021, resulted in the population estimate of 6,240 caribou, down from 470,000 in 1986. I repeat: Down to 6,240 caribou.

The GNWT has worked closely with its co-management partners, including the Tlicho government, to put a range management plan action in place to support the recovery of the herd. A key action to support the herd is the mobile core -- mobile zone that the member's talked about, which is used to implement a complete harvest closure put in place by the Wek'eezhii Renewable Resources Board. That board there is a -- we work with them, the Tlicho government, we work with those guys to come up with this zone.

The zone was developed and is implemented, again, collaboratively with the Tlicho government, ENR, and the Wek'eezhii Renewable Resources Board. If the mobile zone was reduced at this time, it would put collaborative conservation actions for the herd at risk. At risk. We only have 6,240 caribou in that herd. So further detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you, Mr. Chair, with your permission.

Mahsi. Deputy minister.

Mahsi. Ms. Weyallon-Armstrong.

Yeah, I think today we were talking about that too, about the seizure. Yes, well, if the Minister doesn't want to be known as the Minister who got rid of all the Bathurst or known of getting rid of certain species, then I think he should change or do a Cabinet shuffle, because that's not what the answer that we wanted to hear and -- because you -- some people are saying that that is not true. It's not true that why did they did the boundary so big. They're not telling people the truth. And for the record, what I would like the Minister do is that can he repeat who was the zone developed by, because people would like to know the truth about that one. Who was the zone developed by? For the record, can you please repeat?

Mahsi, Ms. Weyallon-Armstrong. We just have to be mindful of our language and how we address Ministers, making accusatory statements and whatnot. I'll pass it to the Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the zone is our caribou with our caribou herds, with collared. The zone was -- the process was developed with the Tlicho government, the ENR, and the Wek'eezhii Renewable Resources Board. So we work collaboratively with them. We work with our Indigenous governments collaboratively on this. We work with them. We have conversations. We have numerous meetings throughout the year with them. But for further detail on this, I would like to turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.

Mahsi. Deputy minister.

Mahsi. No further questions on this section, fish and wildlife. Please turn to page 92. Environment and Natural Resources, wildlife and fish, operations expenditure summary, 2022-2023 Main Estimates, $16,147,000. Does committee agree?