Is there any further questions? Okay. Any more questions? If not, I'll continue on. Thank you.

I'm going to read out again Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 2023-2024, Department of Health and Social Services, administrative and support services, not previously authorized $1,499,000. Does the committee agree?

Thank you. Moving on, Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 2023-2024, Department of Health and Social Services, health and social service programs, not previously authorized $25,525,000. Is there any questions? I'll now go to the Member from Range Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the funding for diagnostic laboratory services, chemotherapy drugs, radiology services, what do these increases represent? Is that more client usage, or is that replacement of equipment? Can the Minister provide more substantiation. Thank you.

Thank you. Go to the Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So these are demand -- this is demand driven as I understand it. So I can start one at a time.

We've got the referred diagnostic laboratory services. That is a funding shortfall to the laboratory services that we are under contract. So we send materials for testing to Dynalife Medical Labs, and it's a multi-year contract. They're set fees. If our usage goes up, then we have to pay more.

Under chemotherapy drugs, similarly, Mr. Chair, if we wind up having a greater uptake or greater usage of those -- or a need, then the costing will, again, go up.

And similarly, radiology services, we have an external contract with an entity that provides those services and, again, it's on an if-and-when basis. If usage goes up then, again, we are in a situation where we are required under that contract to pay more. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Great Slave -- oh sorry, Range Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I thank you for that explanation; that's satisfactory.

Okay, let's talk about agency nurses. So this is 2 million -- 2. -- just over $2.3 million. So what's the total amount that's going to be expended on agency nurse contracts? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

So the total amount requested in this supplementary appropriation is $2.34 million for shortfalls here in terms of the staffing. It's -- yes, the projected -- that's the amount that we're requiring at this time. But the total anticipated cost for agency nurses this fiscal is $5.5 million. Thank you.

Thank you. Member from Range Lake.

Thank you. The media stands corrected because I think there's a news -- well, there was a news article recently of $5.2 million. That's what the public is -- and my constituents have seen and have brought it forward. So a $5.2 million expenditure is barely equivalent to 42 nursing positions at staff wages. So how many agency nurses are we getting from $5.5 million? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, if there -- I mean, difficult to make a guesstimate of that. Different nurses have different -- fall within the pay scale at different rates. There is different overtime amounts, different enhancements, you know, again, so. I can give you -- there's a, you know, total number of scheduled hours that an agency nurse might work. I can try to break that down. But, again, breaking it down by what that does by hour, you know, again, different nurses come in at different hourly rates. So, you know, I'm not -- this is a discussion broadly about the fact that agency nurses are being utilized in the Northwest Territories and elsewhere in Canada. It is all over the news right now. It is an agreement that we have with the UNW to use agency nurses only when available. And the difficult challenge we put ourselves in, and I don't mean to steal the Minister of health's thunder on this one, but if you don't have the nurses there and then there's staffing is short and services close, that is difficult on morale. It's difficult for the public. But, of course, to keep things open, we're either relying on our own nurses to cut short on their time off, on their leave time, or we're bringing in agency nurses. It is a quagmire, and I acknowledge that, but at this point we really just looking for supplementary appropriation to cover the costs for the current fiscal year for being in that exact quagmire. The forward-looking challenge is a much bigger one. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Range Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I'd hazard a guess that the health Minister's probably only too happy to let the finance Minister sub in for questions here. But she's welcome to entertain this discussion as well; I'm sure we'd appreciate it.

So the issue, I think -- and I'm hearing this from nurses in my riding that, like -- so this is a morale issue in addition just because they're -- the prevalence of agency nurses. So can we get the Minister to commit to a very clear cost analysis of that $5.5 million that tells us exactly -- like, the equivalent position -- staff positions that it is. I appreciate they don't work the same way as full-time health personnel in the system; they do work differently. So can the Minister just commit to giving us an accurate staffing numbers, how many bodies are coming through this contract that's equivalent to the staffing -- the staffing numbers that we currently employ in the health system and getting real costs to those numbers. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, this is a longer one. And I certainly don't want to hold up any of the other commitments that we're making that I think can benefit Members, particularly at this stage of the Assembly as we're learning about departments and supplementary appropriations. I don't want to hold those commitments up. The commitment to better understand the drive on agency nurses, the usage of agency nurses, for example what departments are using more, what regions might be using more, what times of year they might be getting used, those are questions that I do want to be seeking answers to and myself and the Minister of health are actively working with the two departments to have a health sustainability discussion, and agency nurses, as well as dental travel, are both pretty hot topics.

So I will commit that I want to get more of a detailed analysis to the Member. I just -- as far as coming up with, you know, dollar for persons, I'm not sure that that will be the question to be asked in terms of understanding what's driving agency nurse use and how we can avoid it and get away from it. I think we all share the desire to have less agency nurses and more resident nurses. So long answer, and I know -- I've already told that I'm not going to make a commitment, but the commitment I'm making is that we want to actually find a way to not have as many agency nurses. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Range Lake.

One is too many. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think that that's the sentiment I'm hearing from health professionals in my riding. And what they're looking for is accurate numbers and cost analysis. So in their words, we have been successful and we're seeing how we can compare if we've been successful in recruiting and training nurses. And these questions are not kind of to -- yeah, I guess we could put a spin on it and say, like, we're excoriating the department for relying on agency nurses and privatizing our health care system, which is probably more exciting for question period than it is for Committee of the Whole. So I won't do that. But what I will say is we need some transparency around this so the public knows where their money's going, and they're getting good value for money. And our hardworking health care professionals can see that as well. That's what they're asking for. So I think the Minister's made a commitment, and I'll -- I appreciate that.

Can the Minister tell me how much of this sup -- or the $2.3 billion, or the global total of 5.5, how much has that been to pay union dues to the UNW for the use of agency nurses? Because I understand that's a component of these contracts. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The total amount for -- everyone's pointing at my computer, Mr. Chair. Just -- $69,766, Mr. Chair.

Okay. Thank you. I'm going to go to Member from Range Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's arising from this supplementary appropriation or the $5.5 million total? Thank you.