Okay, thank you. That's a little bit tough to hear that we're trying to save money and ended up spending more. But -- okay.

The next one I was wondering about is just the funding for the two winter roads. How are we managing to under budget for these? I mean, these are roads that we've been running for decades. We should have a good idea of the operating costs of them. Even knowing that there might be, you know, changes in -- from season to season as to different demands but I would expect that, you know, these costs are pretty significant. So is there a reason why they went up so much this year?

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, they are sometimes quite stable but last year and this year as well, but last year in particular was the first year where knowing of the low water levels and knowing also that there had been reductions even at that point in the amount of barging that came up and the year previous, the department expected and was correct in expecting that there it would need to do some additional work. So some of the things that led to much higher than usual budgeting was that there was additional flooding being used on the portages, additional flooding on all crossings in order to bring up the amount of load bearing that was available. There was widening done which, of course, takes more time, more staffing, more hours. And also some work done -- work that gets done regularly to remove trees along the pathway but with some of the wildfires, there was additional work that needed to be done to clear the areas as well as additional work that needed to be done more than just waiting year over year and doing a cycle but to actually widen the road, again, knowing there's likely to be larger trucks, more trucks, coming through. In addition, there was increased inspection being done so more staff are being put -- more time being dedicated to having folks on the roadway. And that -- well, I guess I'll stop it there, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

Thank you. I'll go to the Member from Frame Lake.

No further questions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Any other -- any further questions from Members? I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Following up on my colleague's questions about shortfalls in general purpose office space leasing, can the Minister share, or does she know, to what extent are GNWT office space leases concentrated with one commercial landlord?

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And, Mr. Chair, I'm happy to have the chance to say that we didn't necessarily, you know, lose money, but the budget was reduced in the hopes that they'd be able to move forward a little faster in terms of getting this -- getting a project off the ground that can reduce our lease space.

Currently, there are 72 percent of the total GNWT lease space is leased. There is 107 individual leases across all regions of the territory. Now, whether or -- the degree to which those are all individual, we have 82 with northern landlords, or 38 percent of our space; 25 of these leases are with southern landlords, which is approximately 62 percent of the space. Thank you.

Thank you. I'll go to the Member from Yellowknife North.

Thank you for that. But has there been analysis done specifically to what extent the value of the leases are concentrated with one single company; has that analysis been done? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. I'll go to the Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I can't speak to that. I don't have that level of detail here on the supplementary estimates document. I'm certainly happy to get back to the Member maybe with my other hat on another day. Thank you.

Thank you. I'll go to the Member from Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And so, I mean, the danger, of course, is that if we put all of our eggs into the basket, or many of them, most of them, of one company that's leasing us office space, we put ourselves at the mercy of cost increases, whether that's space costs or costs for various, you know, renovations and there's not much we can do about it if we're very dependent on one particular commercial landlord. So has the GNWT analyzed any risks associated with our dependence on landlords and us being at the mercy of costs that might increase as a result? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. To the Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, there are, indeed, industry standards for public sectors in terms of the amount that should, you know, ideally be held both between being an owned facility versus being a leased facility. Mr. Chair, again, I don't have with me right now for the supplementary estimate document where we fall within that. My recollection was that we actually were falling within the industry standard but, again, I don't have that here to confirm. There is a significant difference as between Yellowknife in particular, where there is a different market for office space as compared to, in particular, small communities and even regional centres. So, Mr. Chair, again, I'm more than happy to have a much longer conversation about leasing. It's certainly one, as I'm indicating here, that I've got my eye on. The Department of Infrastructure manages it for all other departments which makes an added complication in that there's different needs depending on those services of different departments. So I can say that when leases do come due, they are publicly tendered, and so we are seeking to get good market rates. And one good thing in Yellowknife. Which does tend to be the place where people are concerned about who we are leasing from, there is a greater amount of space available which makes it more easier to get a better market bid. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. I'll go to the Member from Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And the Minister preemptively answered my next question which is whether it's a competitive process when we decide to lease general purpose office space, but. So it is publicly tendered.

So my final question, then, is does the Minister know if we are currently paying rent in any buildings that are currently empty? So perhaps we've moved office space somewhere else, but are there cases where we move to a different office space and continue to pay rent in the previous space which sits empty? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I can't say for sure one way or the other. I would not be surprised if there are occasions that there may be some gap in time if services are moving one way or the other. I will certainly have to get that confirmed. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Next on my list to speak is the Member from Great Slave.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On page 14, there is funding to support an increase in utility costs at 3.7, almost $3.8 million. I'm wondering if the Minister can speak to a substantiation on this noting which regions saw spikes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.