Thank you, Madam Chair. It does make sense, and I look forward to sort of further conversations with the Minister and colleagues to -- for us to brainstorm and find pathways forward to, you know, find more journey persons to take on apprentices, find more employers. And I should clarify too that when I was talking about moving from 5 to 6, so there's more SNAP student participants in that but it's that there were 5 SNAP students registered as apprentices, and then it's gone to now 6 registered apprentices.

My last question, so also another big highlight in the business plan which I know the Minister is a big fan of is the laddering programs, and it talks about the number of laddering programs we're trying to increase and the number of students. But can the Minister explain what exactly is a laddering plan and how we count them or how we know, you know, if we're going from 35 to something, what is a laddering plan and how do you count them? Thank you, Madam Chair.