One of the concerns the committee had as we went through each of the departments was a truly amazing number of initiatives. Most initiatives are good. Most of them have a constituency that really wants to see the initiatives accomplished. It's always difficult to choose, politically, between a lot of compelling issues.

The problem, though, as the committee sees it is that the government does not have the critical mass, it doesn't have the people power to do them all. What invariably happens in any government -- and this has been true right across the country -- if you try to do too much you do everything poorly, or you only get half of them done. So the feeling is -- especially with the new centralized structure you have now -- that there has to be a better fettering system. The Premier and the Minister of Finance have to work together with the Ministers and the other departments and decide how many of these major initiatives can the government have any chance of undertaking. The list, here, goes on for pages. It's the committee's feeling that it would be absolutely impossible. You're going to paralyse yourself as a government by trying to do too much. This, hopefully, is a way for the government to take a little bit of a vote and impose some discipline on itself as to the number of achievable priorities. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes, I will put it on the record. It is a priority. To me, it was such a simple commitment that I had assumed it has been done. This group of nurses is so professional and reasonable that they haven't caused a lot of fuss about it. They have tried very hard to come to some sort of accommodation with the government. So, I will ask again, will the Minister make this a priority and deal with it? The government's credibility is on the line here.

That is well and good, Madam Speaker, but I think we are talking about 20 positions. They were given a specific commitment by this government. These nurses in Yellowknife are the backbone of the health delivery system here in Yellowknife. Everyone who was here during the whooping cough epidemic realized the sort of work that they do. I find it appalling that the government hasn't lived up to that commitment. So I ask the Minister if he will look at this as a very special case and live up to a commitment made by this government over the last six years?

Madam Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Health concerning the classification of public health nurses. I sent a letter to the Minister on January 27 on this subject and I haven't received a reply. The Minister is aware that when we took over Health in 1988 from the federal government, the public health nurses were given a commitment then by the then Minister of Health, by the then Minister of Finance, myself, and the then Premier, that the classification of their position would be looked at and would be adjusted accordingly. They came over to our government on that understanding. Six years later, there has been no action on this commitment by our government. My question to the Minister of Health, what steps is he taking to have this government live up to a very serious commitment made six years ago?

Madam Speaker, I think there's a typographical error in the first "whereas." It says, "WHEREAS violence against all people, especially elders and disabled people, men, women and children..." The intent, I think, of the mover and seconder was to say that although we condemn violence against all people, we recognize that certain people in society are more vulnerable than others. I believe the word "men" in the first line of the first "whereas" should have been deleted.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank everybody who has appeared before us today. Your words were very important and very timely. I think MLAs were listening very carefully to what you all had to say. Progress in the area of family violence is painfully slow, as the representatives from the Status of Women Council, Pauktuutit, the Council for the Disabled, the Native Women's Association and the Senior Association have pointed out. I think you know all too well.

I remember Norma Wickler, who many of you may know, who is and was a pioneer in the field of gender equality in the American justice system. She likened progress to water wearing down a stone. Whenever she was discouraged, she could always give herself energy to fight again by realizing that as long as you are making progress, even if it is slow, it is really worth pursuing. Progress is also very controversial and I really commend Minister Kakfwi for a consistent approach in this area. I think his words and deeds have been consistent. It is not an easy area and it's not an area where you're going to win a lot of political points. It is a very difficult area.

Anyone who has worked in any of the initiatives over the last number of years, whether it is the Family Law Review, or the lead up to the report of the special advisor on gender equality, or even changing the system so that we had a victim surcharge. That was really difficult to get through the system. The problem is, there are so many different perceptions about what is right and what is wrong, what is real and what isn't real. Women and men often have different perceptions. Aboriginal men and aboriginal women have different perceptions. The people involved in the justice system, themselves, have their own view of the world. So, when you're trying to bring about change, you can be assured it will be difficult and controversial.

I think the most important thing is to put all the issues out on the table and work your way through them. There are no heroes in this. Everybody has to try their very best and expect that it is going to be a very difficult and, at times, a very frustrating process.

I'm happy to see that the Minister of Justice has treated the Justice House report seriously. I have a couple of comments about the whole justice field. I think it is key, and I've always thought this, that if we are going to have a holistic approach, in the justice system, to the problems, then our government has to take over the responsibility for prosecutions. We almost did it and then, for a number of unclear reasons, Kim Campbell decided that she wanted to keep it. That is what happened. I would strongly recommend that the Minister pursue that. I think it's very difficult to have a total approach to the legal system without having control over prosecution.

I think the area of victims' rights is an area in which we have made a start, but there is a long way to go. A legitimate concern, especially of many women's organizations, is that when we talk about rehabilitation and trying to help the perpetrator, that the focus on the victim will lessen. I think we have to understand that, ultimately, the victim is the innocent one in this kind of confrontation. Whatever we do, and everybody recognizes that we have to do a lot more than we've done as far as rehabilitating the perpetrators, let's never take away from the primary focus of support to the victim. I think that's very important to remember. Again, it is another example of how difficult this whole area can be.

At times in the past, we've kicked around the idea of a unified court here in the Northwest Territories. There are some positive aspects of efficiency and cost-savings. In a small jurisdiction, it is difficult to have a full court, but maybe a judge who specializes in the whole area of family law could be established. I think that is, again, something we should probably continue to pursue.

I've always felt very strongly that child sexual abuse is the single most difficult issue facing the people of the Northwest Territories. I think it is the most dangerous cancer eating away at the fabric of the Northwest Territories. With generation after generation of child sexual abuse, it multiplies at an alarming rate and destabilizes families and total communities. Sometimes, I think we talk about constitutional development and we talk about how we want to have control of our own land, if we don't deal with this part of the equation, what we'll have control of will be a total disaster. I think we have to always keep that balance.

Essentially, a society that can't protect its children is really a doomed society. It's a society that has no vitality and is heading for self-destruction, ultimately.

Over the years, we've heard demands by a lot of people, especially women in the community who have been abused and who have suffered rapes and sexual assaults, for stronger sentences. Everyone recognizes that the jails and the correctional institutes are not the total answer. There is no doubt in my mind that, especially for repeated violent sexual offenders against women and children, stronger sentences are a must. I believe that. I don't think you can get away from the responsibility of a society to say that under no circumstances will we condone violent sexual offences against women and children.

I am pleased with the strong stand taken by the Minister of Justice. I hope this Legislative Assembly will support the Minister in his approach. I think, as other people, Mr. Lewis and Mr. Dent have said, that when we talk about family violence we can't forget the seniors and the disabled. The seniors here in Yellowknife, in October, had a very productive workshop done by One Voice, the National Seniors' Network. The results of that workshop are available to Members, and I would urge Members to read that to get an idea of the problems facing seniors, not just here in the north but across the country.

I personally support the principle of zero tolerance. I support it very strongly. I think Mr. Kakfwi and Mr. Dent and his committee ought to be commended for bringing it forward. They've both said, and everyone who's talked about this, including the women's organizations, said it's a beginning. I think Lynn Brooks said today it's a very important beginning. I really have no problem, myself, with putting my money where my mouth is and saying we should put some legislation in, so that if a Member is convicted of family violence, they should lose their seat. I have no problem, whatsoever, doing that. I think, if we are to support a policy of zero tolerance, I think that would be an important part of it if we, as leaders, are to set an example.

I would like to finish by saying -- just to reiterate what Mr. Lewis said -- that a society that allows its weak and vulnerable people to be preyed upon is really not a society at all. I think if we are to have pride in our society, if we are to develop every aspect of our society, we have to make every effort possible to protect the vulnerable in our society. Thank you very much.

Madam Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Finance or, perhaps, the Minister of Health. It would be appropriate for Mr. Pollard wearing either hat. I think Mr. Pollard was quoted in the media, saying that he is considering the possibility of raising our territorial tobacco taxes in order to replace lost revenue. I just wonder, has the Finance Minister made a decision, at this point, on whether or not he will raise territorial tobacco taxes to replace lost revenues? It would probably have a positive effect on the perversity factor and it would protect the health, especially of young people, of the Northwest Territories.

The federal solution was to deal with rampant smuggling in Quebec, but it is totally inappropriate for the Northwest Territories. The former Government of the Northwest Territories raised taxes on cigarettes significantly and was strongly criticized by smokers for doing so. However, our fundamental justification, over and above increased revenue, was to provide a deterrent to smoking, especially among young people.

I am a product, myself, of a generation who had cheap cigarettes and no anti-smoking education. I have had mixed success in beating the dreaded habit, and I don't want my children to repeat my experience. I would support the government in raising NWT tax to keep the price of cigarettes constant in the north. I am sure there will be pressure by the federal government to follow their lead.

In the final analysis, all provinces and territories may be forced to react to cross-provincial and territorial smuggling. But for now, I feel strongly that we should stand by the principles that cigarettes are more of a threat to our young people than are smugglers. Thank you very much.

---Applause

The decision of the federal government to lower tobacco taxes in order to curb spending in Quebec, to a lesser extent in other provinces, has serious ramifications for the Northwest Territories. These include loss of revenue, a possible influx of cheaper cigarettes from the south and, most importantly, a serious threat to the health of northerners, especially young people.