Thank you, Mr. Chair. We were just humming along there. So I just wanted to ask on the limit on borrowing the outstanding principal of amounts borrowed not exceed $5 million. Is that the borrowing limit for the Hydro Corporation Act? If it is, how would they plan on financing an expansion with only a $5 million borrowing limit?

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. I thank the Minister and his staff for coming in here and presenting Bill 4, Hydro Corporation Act. I would also like to thank the public for coming out during our round of consultations. It was unfortunate, Mr. Chair, that we couldn't get into one of the communities that would have liked a consultation hearing held on this bill. Due to some unfortunate circumstances, our concerted efforts to get in there wouldn't allow us to travel to Lutselk'e at this time. I hope the community will understand that during my extensive conversations with the chief on this bill, they fully understand this bill does in no way, shape or form commit the government or the Power Corporation to proceed with the Taltson hydro expansion project.

As the chair said in our opening comments, this is just the first step in allowing the NWT Power Corporation to move forward to develop a business plan, a feasibility study and a business case to allow any expansion of the Taltson should it be approved in the near future. I hope that through the next two years with extensive consultation processes going on through the Deze Corporation on this project, that they will be in all the communities that will be affected very regularly to update them and to hear their concerns on any new developments in the expansion project that they are moving forward on.

I just wanted us to make one point, I guess, with the Deze Corporation, just so far as the NWT Power Corp and this government's energy plan on providing cheap, reliable clean power to communities in the south that are on the hydro grid. I hope that this project, if it does go through with any type of expansion, we do have a lot of power there to distribute and we are putting some public buildings on electric power now as a pilot project, but I hope when benefits do arise to the Akaitcho Government or to the Metis Nation through their partnership agreement with the Hydro Corporation, that there will be no clawbacks of Power Subsidy Program dollars or the like for the people that are receiving benefits through the development and the realization of a new expansion project.

With that, again, I just hope that the Minister will ensure that there is sufficient communications at all times during all stages of the review process on the Taltson expansion and even before it even gets off the ground, I think right after the bill has been passed here, they should get into all these communities, talk to all the First Nations people that have been affected by the original Taltson 24 years ago, that they can rest assured that all their concerns will be dealt with including compensation issues and impacts and benefits moving forward. With that, I will be pleased to hear how this is going to fit into the big energy plan of the government. I know that hydro is growing. It's going to be big here in the NWT over the next 20 years. This is just a milestone that we are going to be seeing a lot more development on a lot more of our river systems here in the Territories in the future.

Again, I would just like to send out our apologies that we couldn't get into Lutselk'e and I know the chief and council really wanted us there, but, unfortunately, we couldn't fit it into the schedule and due to time constraints on pushing this bill forward and we didn't want to bring the Deze Energy Corporation to a grinding halt, but hopefully the residents will understand that we will still have a lot of input and a lot of say into how the expansion rolls out. With that, I would like to thank the Minister and his colleagues. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will thank the Minister for that. I look forward to seeing the letter and seeing some kind of a formal directive to the Power Corporation that this just is not a one-time occurrence. This happens every year, Mr. Speaker, and it is going to continue as long as the dam is there. So this is not just a one-time thing; it has to go on every year. The consultations and the water levels are going to change at different times of the year with this new expansion possibly happening. There are going to be different peak periods happening. So I would like this as an ongoing initiative by the Power Corporation to ensure that they are practising or operating the dam in good faith for the people downstream. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will take the Minister to task on that because, basically, he told me that before and nothing has happened to date. The people want to know that the Power Corporation really does care about what they are doing to the trapping grounds. They would like to see even the president of the Power Corporation go into the communities, have a community meeting there, and let them know when the dams are going to open the floodgates and when they are going to close them. The safety concerns that are raised at the community levels are always coming back to me and the issue of damage to the wildlife is really big with the people around there, Mr. Speaker. I am going to ask the Minister again, when is this directive going to go out? Can the communities get a copy of that directive? We can then set some dates for some consultation periods. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. My question today is for the Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation. Just getting back to what I stated earlier in my Member's statement -- and I did raise it before in this House -- the issue of flooding when the Taltson River, the dam is opening or closing to allow for more power during peak periods and low periods. Mr. Speaker, the Minister came back to me. He did say earlier that he wanted some evidence. I do have some evidence right here, Mr. Speaker. This is evidence right here. It clearly shows that a cabin is flooded out. There are doghouses under water. Not only do hunters and trappers get flooded out, but also a lot of wildlife suffer because of the changes in the water levels during the winter season, Mr. Speaker. It clearly states in the NWT Power Corporation water licence that community consultations have to occur when there are going to be changes in water levels and people downstream have to be informed by the Power Corporation. To date, the people can't even remember when the Power Corporation was last in the community to even tell them when any changes were going to occur to any kind of water levels that were going to be happening in the Taltson River. I just want to ask the Minister, can he commit to putting out a directive to the NWT Power Corporation that they have a legal obligation, under the water licence, to ensure that they go into these communities and inform the hunters and trappers that the water levels will be changing, especially around December when the peak period goes up? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mahsi again, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, again I'll use my Member's statement to talk about the proposed hydro development expansion project at the existing Taltson hydro facility.

Mr. Speaker, many people, myself included, are fully supportive of this project moving ahead as planned, and just not only because of the economic benefits and the

impact benefits that people will realize in the region but, more importantly, because of the environmental benefits with the large reduction in greenhouse gasses that are currently being spewed into our sensitive northern environment by the mining companies operating in the Akaitcho territory.

Mr. Speaker, the future of economic development in this region only seems to be growing, and the damage to the tundra and to the wildlife will also grow and we can minimize this damage through projects of this nature. But there are grave concerns about the damage that has already been done by the old Taltson dam when it was first constructed in 1963, and these are concerns that are still around today, 24 years later, Mr. Speaker. I cannot see the people of Lutselk'e or Deninu Kue or the Salt River First Nations being fully supportive of any new developments until these old lingering concerns are put to rest and the people can see that the NWT Power Corp is exercising their due diligence and showing more respect for the hunters and trappers by doing more regular community visits on the current operations of this dam.

Mr. Speaker, the operations of this dam are still affecting the people who use the land downriver as a primary source for their livelihood by hunting and trapping, and they're still being flooded out and I have pictures here to prove it, Mr. Speaker. This was given to me from a trapper from Deninu Kue and it shows his doghouses and his cabins. They're all flooded out in the middle of winter and this cannot continue. If the Power Corp and this government wants these people to approve and expand on the existing facility, I want the Minister of the Power Corp to assure the people of the NWT that the NWT Power Corp will fulfill its legal obligations under their water licence to inform all communities and members of any changes in water levels at any time, that they will be consulted when these changes will occur. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I will use my Member's statement to talk about the proposed hydro development expansion project at the existing Taltson hydro facility.

Mr. Speaker, many people, myself included, are fully supportive of this project moving ahead as planned, not only because of the economic benefits and the impact benefits that will be realized by the people in my region but, more importantly, because they are...

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. I will probably not even be voting on this motion. I haven't really decided yet, but I would like to hear everybody's arguments here. I know they are all good ones and they do all have a lot of weight that we have to consider. What I look at also is basically these are intervener positions and resource development impact advisor positions, pipeline positions, whatever you want to call them, whatever title you want to give them, basically they are all pipeline driven. To me, the pipeline is not anywhere in the near future anymore. It is a couple or three years down the road. We do have a pipeline impact office that is supposed to, and should be I would think, doing all of this kind of resource development impact advisory role for the regions up and down the valley. On the flip side, there is all the federal government funding that has been thrown in the regions up and down the valley to deal with the socio-economic impacts, resource development impacts and everything else that is going to be following with the pipeline. The federal government is doling out lots of money for that with this government included. There is also a lot of money sitting on the sidelines should that pipeline get the go ahead. There is around $500 million that the federal government has sidelined for socio-economic impacts. So all of these things, we put them all in one pot, that is a lot of impact advisory dollars and stuff like that. To me, just throwing an extra $300,000, I know it is not a whole lot of money when you look at the big picture, but I have to agree with some things that Mr. Braden was saying. Your value for money and this one is really hard to swallow. I understand Mr. Yakeleya's point of view. Sometimes the regions need the assistance and they need the advice of experts in resource development. But on the flip side also, sometimes the regions come out at the end of the day and say, gee whiz, we weren't given the right advice. We should have done it on our own. We didn't want it that way. Why is the government making decisions for us? There are always two sides to every argument on this one here.

I like to look at it on a human resource side of things that this government has. We have a lot of human resources out there and so do the communities. I would rather see maybe some of this money going right to the community level and saying, well, you give us an inventory of what you have in the community. I am sure they can pump it out in one day. I am sure a band manager or a community settlement manager can come back to MACA in one day and tell them everything about the community that they have and the people that they have available for resource development or what they should be doing to mitigate the impacts of resource development. That, for me, is a really tough call. I understand MACA's point of view too, that this has already been developed, researched and looked at. This is the conclusion that they have come to, but, again, it seems like this human resource growth in public service is just steamrolling ahead. It seems like we are getting ahead of ourselves in just hiring and hiring, like Mr. Ramsay said, knee-jerk reactions to needs that I think we should do some reprofiling and reassessing of exactly what those needs might be and how we can use the people at the community level more to address their own concerns as opposed to hiring somebody from wherever to go into communities and tell them what they should do or not do.

With that, I will just be reserving my decision until the vote. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I stand in support of this motion also, Mr. Speaker, for all the reasons that all the Members have stated earlier in all our Members' statements and all the reasons here that are stated in the motion, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we all know that all our social ills here in the NWT have derived from alcohol and I just want to point what the Member from Range Lake did, that it is kind of a public enemy number one. But I'd more or less like to term it as the aboriginal enemy number one, Mr. Speaker, because it is the aboriginals that are in our jails, it is the aboriginals that are in our hospitals, it is the aboriginals that are in our small communities that are suffering from alcohol abuse, Mr. Speaker. I think that it's time that we, as a government, have to develop a campaign through a motion like this to inform and educate the aboriginal people, especially our aboriginal youth, Mr. Speaker, who are most at risk, that alcohol is not and should not be considered as normal behaviour, especially when you're consuming large amounts of alcohol in very short periods of time.

In all of our communities, all of our small centres here around the NWT are all challenged to keep the alcohol under control. We all have ways of dealing with it, but still we have to allow our own people to be in control of their own lives. That, Mr. Speaker, is a real fine balancing act for our community social workers, our community health workers and this government in trying to find where the balance is. I think a motion like this puts more emphasis on encouraging this government to work harder to find out where that balance might be and to assist all these people in the communities in how to deal with alcohol abuse in their own community, Mr. Speaker, because no one solution is going to work for all, I can tell you right now. Each community has its own circumstances and ways that they're dealing with it today and I think some of them are really good and some of them need some more work in it. I think that if we can successfully come forward with a campaign that addresses all these various positive things about how the communities are working toward addressing alcohol abuse in the large and small centres, we could come together to formulate a strategy that's territorial-wide that deals with this issue on a regional basis and in those regions they can deal with it specifically in each community.

With that, I fully endorse and support and I really hope that something like this we can measure with some success over the next couple of years in seeing a lot of youth and a lot of our working people between the ages of 24 and 35 years old that are in the mine right now making healthier choices, having sustainable lives and treating their families with respect and dignity that we all hope we can do. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause