Bill 34, Tlicho Land Claims and Self-Government Agreement Act

Thank you. All those opposed, please stand. Thank you. All those abstaining, please stand. Thank you. Mr. Clerk, may we have the results of the vote? Those in favour, 17; opposed, zero; abstaining, zero. The motion is carried unanimously.

---Carried

---Applause

Bill 34 has had third reading. Colleagues, before we rise from this last sitting of the 14th Assembly, I would like to express my heartfelt thanks to you for allowing me to serve as your Speaker for these last four years. It has been both an honour and the best experience of my career. As well, I especially want to thank my family, my mother, Amelia, my dear wife, Elaine, and the children, Warren, Blaire, Ian and my many friends and supporters whose love and confidence in me never diminished and made my work here possible and enjoyable. I have already announced that I will not be seeking re-election this November and, therefore, I wish to thank the constituents of Yellowknife South and Kam Lake ridings. I wish to thank the people of Yellowknife and the many people across the North for the privilege of serving in this Assembly as their representative.

These past 11 years for me have seen great changes and much good has come from our collective efforts. A lot has been done and I hope I have made a contribution to our North and our people in some way. There's still more to do and with our departure today, our challenge will be respectfully passed on to the next Assembly to those of you seeking election. I wish you good luck and best wishes.

I have also been asked to include at this time, on behalf of the many former Members who served in this House, a thank you to Mr. David Hamilton, our retiring Clerk for his 21 years of dedicated service to all the Members of this House. Without his skill, knowledge and commitment to our system of government and all Members and to me and my office, our job would have been more difficult. Thank you, David.

I wish to express my personal thanks and appreciation to all of the House officers, the Deputy Clerk, Mr. Schauerte; Clerks of Committees, Mr. Inch and Mr. Stewart; our Law Clerk, Ms. Peterson; and, Sergeant-at-Arms, Ms. Theede. I also wish to say thank you to my Board of Management whose excellent work on behalf of this Assembly and the elected Members is commendable and to the many young people who have served us as Pages over the years and made our Assembly a smooth, safe and efficient operation. I wish to personally acknowledge the contribution made and assistance given to me as the Speaker of the 14th Assembly by the Languages Commissioner, Ms. Fibbie Tatti; the Information and Privacy Commissioner, Mrs. Elaine Keenan-Bengts; and to the Conflict of Interest Commissioners, Mr. Ted Hughes and Ms. Carol Roberts.

Finally, a special thank you to my dedicated executive assistants over the past four years: Mrs. Barb Paquin, Sonia Golding and Sue Tkachuk. Their efficiency and organization has made my job this past term so professional, easy and the highlight of my career.

Thank you to all. Thank you. Merci.

Now, Mr. Clerk, I understand that his honour, the Deputy Commissioner of the Northwest Territories is prepared to enter the Chamber to give assent to bills and to prorogue this session of the Legislative Assembly. Mr. Clerk, would you attend to and escort the Deputy Commissioner of the Northwest Territories into the Chamber.

Question has been called. Mr. Clerk, we shall proceed with a recorded vote. All those in favour of the motion, please stand.

The honourable Member requests a recorded vote. To the motion.

Mr. Speaker, at this time I would request a recorded vote.

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. We have a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Thebacha, that Bill 34, Tlicho Land Claims and Self-Government Agreement Act, be read for the third time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried unanimously.

---Carried

---Applause

The motion is carried. Bill 34 has had second reading. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. To the principle of the bill. The House is ready for the question.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak to the principle of the bill. I am not going to speak to the process, but again as I have previously commended the Tlicho people for bringing this vision and dream that they have to the stage where it is now. I think anybody who has been part of development in the North, will have known for some time that this has been in the works and they have brought it to a reality and I would like to commend them for that and I will support the principle of the bill. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Tlicho people have invested years of work and literally millions of dollars of their own money to get to where we are today. They have, on their own free will, chosen to be partners with us; partners in a public government. They could have gone exclusively aboriginal, but they chose not to. It's a choice that I think all of us should celebrate. It's an offer that we cannot refuse.

Today, every day for the next few months, the next few years we have to be conscious that we're working with partners and the Tlicho are one of our strongest partners, economically and politically. They are also partners with the Gwich'in, with the Sahtu, with the Deh Cho, with the Akaitcho and the Gwich'in people, with the Metis. They have chosen to work with us on the very same agenda that we're trying to advance, whether it's diamonds, pipeline, oil and gas, devolution or revenue sharing. These are the people that we are partnering with to advance our agendas, and we need them to continue the work that we've started.

Some of us are not as well briefed or haven't taken the time to try to understand the issues of aboriginal people, and some of us haven't taken the time to read the documents that are in front of us, the offers that are made to inform us. We have an obligation as MLAs to be well informed and to make sure that our constituents are informed as well.

I also want to remind Members that every major aboriginal initiative that has come here to this legislature has always been met in the same way. Some were supported, some of us don't know, some of us are afraid and not quite sure what it means. All of us share one need. We need to know what this government, this territory, is going to look at like in two years and in 10 years. That is something singularly lacking with all of us. Some of us think we know. Some of us admit we don't know. It's a need. Unless we develop them, unless we are able to tell our people this government is going to change, there are emerging regional governments, there are aboriginal governments, there are aboriginal people negotiating their rights as part of this aboriginal government and here's how it has changed to date and here's where we are going, people are going to be afraid. People are going to ask for time. People are going to be cautious. So the leadership that we should provide and need to provide can start right here. We can't stop what is going on. Too much has passed away.

The Inuvialuit people, over the objections of this legislature, in fact ignored the Territorial Council of the day when it went ahead and was ratified and implemented. The Gwich'in claim went and there was some caution and concern, but it went ahead and so did the Sahtu claim.

Now the Tlicho claim is in front to us. The Deh Cho process is a process that embraces public government as well. There are a lot of difficult issues to face there, but it's a process that I welcome because they choose to find a way to be part of this government. We have to believe that people out there who want to be governed are saying it's going to be even better. We in this House are part of what goes on in the communities. We have to reflect the will and the aspirations of people out there. Sometimes we do have to take a leap of faith.

We have lawyers and we get advice, we pass legislation all the time. We are not quite sure of what it all means, but we go on the faith of what we are advised. I know that everything is tied together; devolution, revenue sharing, self-government, the Tlicho agreement. People out there are watching us and wondering how we are going to treat it. I have to say I believe that we are going to do it right. This piece of legislation here is one that's gives effect, so it has already been agreed to by the Tlicho, by the Government of Canada and this government. So we do hope that the Members will recognize that people are waiting for us. We are asking the Aboriginal Summit to advance significant issues that are of great concern to revenue sharing, devolution. We are asking them to take a leap of faith. Although we don't know the answers, we don't know the specifics, we are asking to partner with us and take a leap of faith. That's the challenge.

We can't afford to slow things down because we don't know. We can take a reasonable amount of time to inform ourselves and make that judgment. It's a political judgment that may be called on for some of us and I, for one, have no difficulty at all to support and I wish to deal with this as quickly as we can. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I won't take long, we'll have a lot of chance to discuss this bill in detail, but I will rise here today to offer my support for the principle of this legislation, to the principle of this bill.

As Members have said, this will recognize the self-government and land claim aspirations and dreams of the Tlicho people. I acknowledge and admit that four years ago when I was elected, I had very little knowledge about the dreams and aspirations of this First Nation. I can say that I know a heck of a lot more today than I did four years ago, and that's due in large part to the tireless efforts of Leon Lafferty who has been quite an advocate, I must say, for this legislation and for the Tlicho people over the last four years, and has continually been down the hall to discuss progress and their aspirations and dreams with me in my office, and try to encourage me to support the legislation and to work to understand the agreement.

It's very important legislation. It is, in fact, constitutional development. I hope that this legislature and our committee will give it the respect and the full consideration that I believe it deserves, and I look forward to that process. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I, too, support the principle of the bill. I think as the Member for Mackenzie Delta has pointed out, this represents years of work and a significant amount of effort and undertaking by the Tlicho. I understand it to be the first agreement of its kind, bringing claims and self-government together.

I have to say that I haven't had much time to examine the bill, so I do look forward to having some time to have a detailed look at it. But from what I do know of the bill so far, Mr. Speaker, it probably changes the face of governance in the North. In many ways it might have been de facto by constitution making.

One thing I would like to do is compliment the Tlicho on their effort to make this agreement accessible. They've certainly raised the bar when it comes to making a complex legal document like the agreement available in plain language, and I would encourage my constituents to make sure that they have an opportunity to have a look at these documents. I look forward to discussing this bill with Members of committee and hopefully members of the public as it proceeds through the House. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the principle of the Tlicho land claims and self-government agreement is a good one. For years aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories and across Canada have been working to negotiate, along with their claims, self-government. Being that the principle is a good one, Mr. Speaker, is one thing, but our duty as legislators in this House I find myself in a bit of a predicament here because I know the wishes of this government to bring this to fruition, to bring it back in this House to third reading and pass it in the life of this government.

We know that dissolution happens on the 24th of October, and we're done. Mr. Speaker, we need to ask ourselves as legislators for all people in the Northwest Territories if the process we're going to step into, which has already been brought forward by our Cabinet, they've endorsed this and moved this and moved it ahead and taken all the considerations and concerns of Members, and in their wisdom thought that this is a step that needs to happen.

Mr. Speaker, there are questions we have to ask ourselves, and not only ourselves but on behalf of the residents we represent when it comes to this act. I believe that now that it is kicked into the public realm after first reading, and now after second reading it will go to committee and the committee will have to decide now as to what are the best steps for this bill. We've heard a number of Members already say we should bring it back and conclude it in the life of this session. We know our session ends on the 10th, unless we decided as an Assembly to extend those sitting days beyond the 10th up until possibly midnight, I guess, on the 24th.

It is a piece of legislation that is very significant, Mr. Speaker. Government may put this out as a small piece of legislation. There only are a small number of clauses in this bill, and that's true, but they are very significant and mean much, as we've talked about earlier, about the development of this Northwest Territories, the development of the people in the Northwest Territories, and what it means. Every agreement signed to date, there has been no piece to it that included a self-government provision. So this is a very big piece of legislation on that principle of self-government in the Northwest Territories.

Yes, we've heard that the federal government and the territorial government, that's our Cabinet, has signed off on this. The federal government's Cabinet has signed off on this and the Tlicho people have signed off on this and ratified it. This step, Mr. Speaker, that we are now coming to as a Government of the Northwest Territories is our government's way of bringing ratification to this bill. Is it appropriate that we take this and move it through at the pace that is being requested? In many minds, that is a very serious potential and outcome of this bill. Whether we have that debate amongst committee on a public hearing process, whether it's in the communities or have a very public debate in this House in Committee of the Whole, I think we have to give a full degree of attention to this bill and what it means to residents of the Northwest Territories. Once this is ratified, that means every agreement that has been signed to date, whether it was a self-government process or not or just a land claims process, those claims are going to have to have a clause in them that says anything given to one group, we shall benefit from as well. I know that's in the Inuvialuit one, that's in the Gwich'in one, and I'm sure that's in the Sahtu one.

As well, one has to say as a government, in our wisdom are we able to proceed to this stage and bring real effect to this bill, or is it a symbolic gesture, Mr. Speaker? I think as legislators we have to be sure that what we are doing is the right thing, not just for the sake of symbolism, but for bringing real legislation into this House and bringing it forward.

So, Mr. Speaker, in principle, it is a good bill. It will change the Government of the Northwest Territories and evolve to the next step, and we know there are many other claims in that process. I come from an area, the Beaufort-Delta, that is working on something in the area of self-government, as well, Mr. Speaker. So it is important that we deal with this as legislators in an open and transparent way. The residents of the Northwest Territories expect accountability from this government, and making sure that what we do is in the best interest of all people in the Northwest Territories. I know we'd like to do this and do it quickly for the benefit of the Tlicho people, and that's a very plausible thing. We need to look at that and see that in the light that it should be in. But, Mr. Speaker, I have a duty as a Member of the Legislative Assembly to all residents that I represent from my constituency, and until we have that public debate on this to the provisions of this and what it actually means...For example, what does clause 4 mean to the Government of the Northwest Territories, to the people of the Northwest Territories that I represent?

With that, Mr. Speaker, I would encourage that we get it to the public process. Committee, at this point, will have to decide if it's an on-the-road campaign in the sense of taking it out, or if we decide to bring it to this House for a review in Committee of the Whole. We must all be ready for the next stage to do due diligence. It's only what's expected of us by residents.

So in principle it's a good bill, and I would support getting this to the next stage, but I would have some serious questions that I hope the Cabinet, the Minister sponsoring this would have the appropriate answers as we go through that public process. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

Mr. Speaker, it's a great honour today to speak on the Tlicho agreement. It has been some 20 years of negotiations to the tune of $28 million being expended on these negotiations, which the Tlicho people will have to pay back. I think as a people in the Northwest Territories who have seen the development of land claims, the political process in the Northwest Territories, it has been a long, drawn out process. For people to say they weren't aware of negotiations or not aware of what's in the Tlicho agreement, I find it totally unreasonable to realize that negotiations have been going on for this long and no one knows what's in it.

I've been involved in negotiations of the Dene/Metis claims negotiations process and then also the Gwich'in agreement and the Sahtu agreement. The most cumbersome group of people to negotiate with is the Government of the Northwest Territories. The most challenging issues that you have at the negotiating table are with the Government of the Northwest Territories negotiators. You have to negotiate with the federal government and the Government of the Northwest Territories and all the other people out there. I think for people to sit here and say that we need more time, we've had 20 years. We've spent almost $30 million on negotiating the Tlicho agreement.

The same thing applied to the Inuvialuit, the Gwich'in, the Sahtu and now with the Tlicho agreement. I've spend going on eight years in this House, always bringing the Gwich'in land claim agreement with me because there are a lot of elements of this agreement which haven't even been implemented, and it's over 10 years since the Gwich'in agreement was negotiated. A simple thing like amendments to the Wildlife Act; we've served four years and this has been one of our issues and it hasn't been dealt with. We have establishment of protected areas in this agreement such as territorial parks. It's almost 10 years since these parks were established. It has taken so long to implement our land claim agreement it's pathetic. Yet people say well, they're getting all these things. You get a land claim agreement, but it doesn't mean anything unless it gets legislative assent.

I think that's what the Tlicho agreement is asking for us to do here today. As legislators we have a responsibility to uphold our commitments to First Nations people that have taken the time to negotiate their agreement and also have taken the time to make that expenditure, and negotiations are a two-way street. The federal government has their positions, the GNWT has their positions, and the First Nations people have their positions. But at the end of it all, we have an agreement that basically has been signed by the Prime Minister of Canada, the Government of the Northwest Territories and the First Nations people.

It has been televised across the country. I would like to see this agreement given assent in this House during the sitting of this legislature. If people want to have a full debate, we can debate it on the floor of this House through Committee of the Whole and have it televised across the country so every community, every person in our community can see what the questions are, what the issues are, and as Members of this Legislature standing up to face your predictions and exactly what you stand for. If you have problems with an issue, let's do it on the floor of this House. With that, Mr. Speaker, I fully support the Tlicho agreement and I will encourage Members to also support the enactment of this agreement by bringing forward the legislation that's in front of us and passing it in the Chamber of this House as soon as possible.

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you Mr. Braden. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I, too, stand here to indicate that I will be supporting this bill. It is the next step, Mr. Speaker, in what has really become a proud history legacy of northern Canadians and Canada as a whole that has seen land claim and self-government process events over time. In most of my life here in the Northwest Territories, Mr. Speaker, and some nine or ten years in the Yukon, I have lived through the evolution of the whole notion that aboriginal people deserve to have these things.

It really is a matter of restoring what they had and how they lived and went about making their own decisions before the arrival, of course, of European culture. The acceptance of land claims and self-government is really becoming part of the North's psyche. It is part of our environment, it is part of how we live, how we work with each other and, very much, Mr. Speaker, it is part of the way we are looking forward in planning for the future. We cannot do these things without factoring in the significance of land claims and self-government. That is why we are here as legislators; to see this through and to be the eyes and the ears and the hearts of our constituents and to lead and guide the laws and programs through to completion.

As my colleague, Mr. Delorey, said he looks forward to seeing this through and to the broadest and fullest possible inclusion as our process and our rules have it, that this is given the fullness of time and exposure to all people of the North to have a look at these laws. To see that they are indeed the right thing to do, see that they meet the expectations and merit the respect that we bring to them, Mr. Speaker. I want to say again that I stand in full support of this bill and look forward to the public discourse and the passage of it in due course. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you Mr. Delorey. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for the Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I, as well, would like to speak to the principle of the bill. Mr. Speaker, I am glad to see the second reading of this bill come to the House.

I look forward to going home this weekend and having consultation on this bill with my constituents. I think that it is very important that the public know what is going on. I look forward to the debate coming up over this bill and as much public input as we can get into it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you Ms. Lee. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker I just want to make a very brief statement in support of the principle of this bill. I do believe that this is a project that has been in the works for a very long time. I know that the members of the Tlicho government and their people are anxious to get this bill in the House.

I will be supporting the second reading of the bill in support of having the bill in the public domain for the public input and consultation process. I just want to state that I support the principle of this bill and that I look forward to having discussions about this bill. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Minister. You have a motion. The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Thebacha, that Bill 34, Tlicho Land Claim and Self-Government Agreement Act, be read for the second time.

Mr. Speaker, this bill approves, gives effect to and declares valid the Tlicho agreement, which is a land claims and self-government agreement among the Tlicho, the government of the Northwest Territories and the Government of Canada.

This bill also gives effect to the Tlicho tax treatment agreement which is in agreement, in relation to the tax treatment of the Tlicho government, Tlicho corporations and the Tlicho capital trusts.

This bill provides a mechanism for the transfer of personal property to the Tlicho government. It also provides for the legal recognition of the Tlicho agreement. The Tlicho tax treatment agreement and the laws made by the Tlicho government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 34 has had first reading. Item 17, first reading of bills. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Minister Ootes.

Thank you, Minister Antoine. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Thebacha, that Bill 34, Tlicho Land Claims and Self-Government Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.