All those abstaining, please stand. The results of the recorded vote: 10 in favour, eight opposed, zero abstentions.

---Carried

Bill 44 has had its second reading and is now referred to standing committee. By the authority given to me as Speaker by Motion 7-18(3), I hereby authorize the House to sit beyond the daily hour of adjournment to consider the business before the House. Second reading of bills. Minister of Lands.

Masi. All those opposed, please stand.

Masi. There has been a request for a recorded vote on the motion. All those in favour, please stand.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and I appreciate all of the concerns and comments from Members opposite. There were some concerns that were raised with the bill and the way it was brought forward. We have had a lot of negative comments, and we take those as well as any positive comments that we can get.

We reached out to a lot of our partners yesterday and had some conversations with them. They shared some concerns. Four of them said that they will take part in the standing committee process, recognizing the standing committee's workload. It has been that way for the four Assemblies that I have been a part of. We do have a bit of work in the last little bit. Unfortunately, at the beginning of this Assembly, we should have been doing a lot more work. We spent a lot of time on other things, and that took up a lot of time and energy that could have been put into some legislative initiatives.

However, I recognize the concerns of committee. One of the reasons that I think we need to bring this on the road is because, if we bring on the road a completed product without input from the public -- and that is one thing that we hear a lot in here: "The public has to have input; the public has to have input." I agree with you, 100 percent, but if we make the decision in here for the public without giving them an opportunity to have input in the final product, then we are going against what we chose.

Somebody made the comment that the Aboriginal governments are just stakeholders in all of this. Maybe that is your feeling and that is your opinion, but in your opinion, Aboriginal governments are our full partners, and they will be, going forward. They know that, and we know that. Members have taken part in a lot of the bilateral discussions that we have had with Aboriginal governments. We respect the input that they put into it.

There was one comment that the spirit and intent is to protect the forest. I agree wholeheartedly. That is the spirit and intent of this particular piece of legislation.

There were a lot of suggestions from one particular Member about a lot of things that could be improved in this bill, and I agree with that as well. That is what we need to hear. The Member tells us what he thinks needs to be in the bill? Fine, we will listen to that, but then we need to listen to what the public has to say, because they may have some other ideas that they want to work into the bill.

When we get through the public consultation and the feedback from public, we will make a determination there whether this is going to proceed or not or be punted to the next Assembly. I believe that we have an obligation to try and do as much of the work as we can now, and I am a big believer in getting things right. However, I can say that, if we had come up with a finished product between ourselves, the Aboriginal governments, and committee, I would have been criticized for not bringing this to the public and seeking their input. I am not going to risk that; we will seek their input, and then we will come back to this Assembly. We will make a determination at that time about the feedback that we got, how we can incorporate into the bill, how we can improve the bill, and then we will move on from there, Mr. Speaker.

Everything that we do respects the land claims process, and everything that we do respects our partnership with the Aboriginal governments. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe that a request for a recorded vote was asked for. Thank you.

Masi. To the principle of the bill. Minister of Environment and Natural Resources.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I share the concerns of many of my colleagues. I have heard not a lot of support for bill; even the Members who say that they are going to support the bill are doing so begrudgingly. There seems to be a bit of a difference between the perception of Indigenous groups from land claim areas and those areas without settled land claims yet. In my area, there are no settled land claims. I know that Indigenous leaders in my region have spoken out against moving forward with this bill.

I look at the process that went into drafting this compared to something like the Mineral Resources Act. We got regular updates from the Minister. I know that there were working groups. I know that Indigenous governments were really engaged with that, and it doesn't seem to be the same situation here. This seems to be lowering the bar in terms of engagement. I think that, moving forward, looking at the future of our territory, everything will be devolved, eventually, to Indigenous governments. I don't know why we are sort of taking a step back in terms of consultation and in terms of drafting with this piece of legislation.

I also share the concerns of the Member for Yellowknife North, who talked about the committee's workload taking this out on the road. I am on the Standing Committee on Government Operations, and we have dealt with some big bills. They are nothing compared to the technical pieces of legislation that we are looking at here. Not only do we need the staff surrounding us, we need to become experts in these bills so that we can take the information that we hear and incorporate it into the bills.

I can tell you right now that this process is not going to lead to the best possible bill. Putting this forward now, in the state that it is in, in the future, people will be saying, "Why didn't they just take their time and do it right?" We have legislation like that now, and I can see that we are heading that way with this bill. For those reasons, I won't be supporting the bill. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. To the principle of the bill. Member for Hay River North.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Like many of my colleagues, I also reached out to my land claim group, the Gwich'in, but what the Gwich'in council was concerned about was that our Gwich'in Renewable Resources Board was saying that they were not being consulted or involved in co-drafting. The Gwich'in Tribal Council wrote a letter to the environment and natural resources Minister, and he sent a response that there would be more engagement after the second reading. The Gwich'in certainly want to maintain our good relationship with the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, some of my colleagues earlier today said, oh, we do not have much for timber up in my neck of the woods, but, to be truthful, we have some of the largest trees in the Northwest Territories, maybe next to Fort Liard. You know, we do have a lot of timber in our area, and those who may have travelled in our territory know that we have a lot spruce, dry wood, green, and, over the last, say, 15, 20 years, maybe more, our people have been probably the leaders, going out and getting wood permits, just taking what we need. Also, while getting permits, we are actually keeping track of how much we are harvesting so that we know for future generations. So we are already doing our part in the Mackenzie Delta and also the Beaufort Delta, even when it comes to driftwood, Mr. Speaker. It's a voluntary thing, but the reason we are going out and getting wood permits is so we know how much we are harvesting throughout the summer months, and that is just wood that is coming down the rivers.

Mr. Speaker, because the Gwich'in are willing to work with the government through our next steps, you know, I am sure I will get a lot of flak for it, but I will be voting for the bill to move forward. If the changes are not going to be let with the Aboriginal working groups over this process, it is not too late to shut it down at third reading. If that is something that we need to do, then that is when this whole process will surely fall through, but let's go through the process.

Like I said, the Gwich'in are willing to work with the government and ensure that their concerns are brought forward. We are here for our future generations, as it was said, and some of us are practising that already and are just willing to move forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. To the principle of the bill. Member for Mackenzie Delta.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There have been a lot of words spoken today. We have heard that, of course, some Indigenous governments do not feel that the process to date respects the agreed-upon process of co-drafting. We have also heard about many challenges with the bill itself. Mr. Speaker, everybody in this room knows that standing committee plays a significant and important role in developing legislation on behalf of this Legislative Assembly, and so, while I can't speak, let's say, for every individual specifically on the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment, the standing committee that will be tasked with taking this particular legislation on the road, I can say that the standing committee has consistently been clear in its messaging, that we feel that there has been a lack of supporting information and that, to some degree, we do feel ill equipped to take this material on the road.

Mr. Speaker, what is also important is that this particular piece of legislation is going to be going on the road with two other bills that we are bundling together to take this on the road. So, while again I respect that there are a number of Members saying that there will be a due diligence process for further consultation, let's remember that it's going to be bundled with two other pieces of legislation that need equal or greater attention, to some regard. We are talking about the Protected Areas Act and the Environmental Management Act. Mr. Speaker, we have seen some bills in this House, 911, cannabis, take significant time and resources from their respective standing committees to go out on the road and do very meaningful consultation. A number of them went into a number of communities, 15, 16, 17 communities in one instance, and it took months to properly do the deliberation. Mr. Speaker, departments have had nearly four years to get their legislation in order to be able to present it to the standing committees, and now the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment has April, May, June, and July, four months, to take nine bills that this committee is going to get on the road. Six, I should say, for sure are going on the road, possibly seven, a couple maybe that we do not have to travel with. It took months for 911 and cannabis. They travelled independently, on their own, with the full time and resources of their committees from a couple of years ago, to be able to focus and give it the time it required and the resources necessary. This committee is taking six pieces, possibly seven pieces, on the road in four months, with limited resources, limited time. This is not due diligence for a piece of legislation so serious and so critical as the Forest Act. This deserved to the parked and put forward to the 19^th Assembly, where it could start out of the gate with fresh resources, fresh time, fresh energy, and the due diligence to do the proper co-drafting consultation, et cetera.

Mr. Speaker, it's frustrating, to say the least, that I feel that our government is compounding all of its efforts into these last few months to get legislation pushed out through the door so that we can check off some boxes rather than doing it right. For those reasons, I will not be supporting the bill. Thank you.

Masi. To the principle of the bill. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We really live in a multi-cultural and multi-diverse area of the territory, which includes many various details of consultation. I have seen many applications, demonstrations of systems, and consultations that give you the terminology of joint collaboration. I have carried land-use planning applications, which were underneath the jurisdiction of Diane in those days. I have carried applications in boxes to the Sahtu land-use planning office. Then the process carries on through the referral as set out in the land claim. Those are just examples of consultation.

Back to the bill, I know for a fact that the working group was made up of a representative from the Sahtu. No one can say we weren't at the table. Consultation is truly a terminology that could be described in many ways. Is it a phone call? Is it a fax? Is it a text?

The department has given me confidence that, yes, we have defined consultation by saying, "Okay. We are going to reach out to parties and the stakeholders, and we are going to bring them to the table so we are sitting across from each other." To me, that is genuine consultation rather than doing it over the phone.

We are in a very similar situation as what we discussed the other day on one of the other previous bills to allow community consultation. I support this bill, and I support it moving on to the next stage of consultation, and I am hoping that some of the communities that I represent would be on the engagement referral list, to give more public input outside of the representation that we had on the technical working group. After all, everybody should be allowed to speak at these public forums. Elements of cooperation and reconciliation, consensus government, I put all of that in the basket of what I have learned over the last three and a half years. Just earlier, we came to a compromise by extending and giving an extension to Bill 29, which allows for more time to design the piece of legislation that is going to be there for generations and generations. Joint collaboration and consultation, we have that coming up in the Sahtu. My understanding is that there is a bilateral meeting going to happen next month. So those are examples of consultations. Now, if one side cannot make the meeting and they send a representative, well, to me, the principle of the meeting is there. We have a structure in the Sahtu. I can't speak for anybody outside the Sahtu, but, in the Sahtu, we have a regime and we have an administration that looks after various departments. In this case, the representative for the SRRB was at the table.

So, given the consultations, there is going to be room for additional recommendations once we take the piece of legislation out on the road, and I look forward to working with the people who I represent in both communities, of non-beneficiaries and beneficiaries, saying, "Right here, here is the schedule. Tell me when you want me to put you on the list." I will engage them and help the department to engage and reach out to those organizations that I think would be appropriate for positive feedback in designing and modernizing this piece of legislation. We have also got to keep in mind that what we are doing today is for tomorrow's generation. That is about all I have got to say. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.