Transcript of meeting #1 for Territorial Leadership Committee in the 13th Assembly.

The winning word was chairman.

Community Transfers
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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The Chair Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Ng, your final question.

Short And Long-Term Priorities
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

It's only my third, I thought, Mr. Chairman. Anyway, my final question. I would like to ask both the candidates what do they see as their two or three priorities, both on a short-term basis that has to be done within the next six months and of a long-term basis that has to be carried out during the mandate of this Assembly. Thank you.

Short And Long-Term Priorities
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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The Chair Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Short And Long-Term Priorities
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think one of the main priorities that we have facing us within the next week is our ability to get together and ability to set the direction of the new government. We have to do that and we have to do it fairly fast so that we know -- we as a Cabinet or Premier -- know what direction you guys want to go. It has to be very clear that we know what parameters we can move inso that we know what's likeable or a solution to some of our problems so that we can go and prepare a budget to present to this Legislative Assembly inthe winter months. That's very key and that would be the main priority: set the direction, then let's get down and get to work. Thank you.

Short And Long-Term Priorities
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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The Chair Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Short And Long-Term Priorities
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For me personally, for the next six months some short range priorities would be -- because I'm a newcomer coming to this government -- just to get familiar with a lot of the information that of course Mr. Morin would already have good knowledge of, having been in the government for eight years. So there's going to be a lot of orientation further to what we've received this week that's going to have to take place for the new Members. So I would say that would be apriority.

Briefings from various departments, agencies, finding out what the last government did exactly from the inside perspective to get an idea where we're going to go. The Department of Finance conducted quite extensive community consultation recently in their mandate to determine what the public felt were the areas where the deficit could be reduced and spending cuts could take place. I would be very interested in this government taking a really close look at the results of that consultation and by doing that include the public in the process that will help us set the agenda for the next six months. Thank you.

Short And Long-Term Priorities
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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The Chair Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Arlooktoo followed by Mr. Roland and Mr. Barnabas. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Social Housing Rent Scale
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was pleased to see the two candidates' strong endorsement of the need to move towards implementing Nunavut according to the timetable set out in the Nunavut Ad.. I believe that the Government of the Northwest Territories must send a strong signal to the federal government and to the Government of the NWT bureaucrats that our government is firmly committed to preparing for division based on the April 1999 timetable and that we will do our part to be ready to implement division in a timely manner as our people expect.

However, my questions have to do with housing. Drastic increases in social housing rents were implemented last year in my constituency. While campaigning, I learned from many of my constituents in social housing that they are facing real hardships in dealing with sometimes sharp rent increases in areas where the cost of living is already very high. People with middle incomes are finding it easier to quit their jobs and go on social assistance where the rent charged is much lower. Every time they make a little more money, they feel they are being punished. My question to both candidates is whether they will be committed as Premier to a thorough evaluation and review of the full impact, both positive and negative, of the new social housing rent scale?

Social Housing Rent Scale
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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The Chair Samuel Gargan

Mrs. Groenewegen.

Social Housing Rent Scale
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I am not mistaken, the new rent scales that were voted in by the last government went into effect on April 1st. I know there was a tremendous amount of opposition to those rent scales from some regions and from some communities. However, I feel the Minister saw the need for more housing. We've heard today about people in communities who don't have jobs and I think an effort was made to make the rent scale as fair as possible so that people who did have incomes would pay rent according to that income. If the Member feels that now that rent scales have been implemented, that the impact. of that needs to be reviewed in some way, I would not have any opposition to that.

However, I can't say that I'm aware of exactly what the rent scales are in the smaller communities in the East. I know the impact that they had in some of the market communities, or close to being market communities, in this part of the world and conversely, I see a positive effect from that in that some people will now look at public or social housing and say, well, that it's more viable for them to get involved in home ownership and by doing so then will free up much-needed public housing units for people who have small children and who need those units. As the system was, there wasn't a lot of incentive once you were in public housing to ever move on and take that step to home ownership.

I'm not saying that I'm not sensitive to the hardships that that may have caused for some people in your community and I would not be adverse to having a review of the impact but I think that this is an example of one of the hard choices that the government had to make and the short-term effects may be painful but I think the big picture and the overall effect is a positive one. Like I said, though, I would not be adverse to an impact review now that it has been in place for several months and perhaps at the one year mark. Thank you.

Social Housing Rent Scale
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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The Chair Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Morin.

Social Housing Rent Scale
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The new rent scale and consultation process was changed in the previous Assembly and it was made very clear to Members at that time the consequences of not changing the rent scale. First off, with the Housing Corporation what we did as a government was to develop a whole new range of home ownership programs so that people had home ownership programs to go to and those high-income people that did live in public housing were encouraged to apply for home ownership programs and thus free up the public housing units for our low-income people. That's approximately 3600 people on the waiting list in the Northwest Territories. That's the way it was done.

Through the Special Committee on Housing, we did go out and consult with all the communities inthe Northwest Territories as well as regional consultation and then it came to the Special Committee on Housing. Every recommendation came to that committee with the dollars attached to it. We had all the information there and that's how we based our decisions, on the information available. We could have sat back and done nothing and that would have cost us, I believe, around $11 million total as a cut in our O and M money from the federal government. Not only do we lose that $11 million, we'd have to find another $11 million to replace it. That's the reason that was done.

What I liked so much about the whole process was that now we do have a process in place where people drive the policy making of this government, the actual people from the community level. That is an ongoing process so the process is open to look at any policy within the Housing Corporation and it's to be reviewed every year and the policies are to be changed and adapted. If there's a problem with the policy, then it's our job as Members of the Legislative Assembly to change it. As long as we know the consequences of that change and what it costs. The policy is open for review because the process is in place already to do that. Thank you.

Social Housing Rent Scale
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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The Chair Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Arlooktoo, your second question.

Staff Housing
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you. My final question is for both candidates again and has to do with housing, but in this case, staff housing. I would like to ask the candidates if they're aware of the enormous hardships that are being felt by teachers, nurses and, in some cases, public servants who are living in remote communities, especially in the Baffin and probably in other regions of Nunavut, who have been hit by sizeable rent increases in the last couple of years and have seen the cash that they take home reduced to almost nil? I would like to ask them what they are prepared to do about these situations as they have caused a decline in public service morale and, as I understand it, difficulty in recruiting and to a point where public servants are doubling up in housing.

Staff Housing
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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The Chair Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Staff Housing
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am well aware of that. We lost an excellent teacher in my community of Lutsel K'e because the rent got too high for her to afford and she was basically taking home clear, every two weeks, a hundred and twenty-some dollars after the rent. The cost of living in Lutsel K'e is the second highest cost of living in the Northwest Territories. Only Pelly Bay has a higher cost of living. So I am well aware of that issue, and I have raised it before. It should be raised.

My understanding of the new staff housing rent policy is that you are not too bad off if you are around the $20,000 mark, if that is your wage, and you're not too bad at $20,000 to $25,000, and if you're over $45,000, it's not bad, but there is a group in the middle that it seems to affect most. So that was supposed to be looked at, and I don't know if they have finished looking at that yet or not. But ultimately, in four years, if you leave the rent scale the way it is, that same group will be affected, so we have to look at that and see how we can make it better. Thank you.

Staff Housing
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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The Chair Samuel Gargan

Mrs. Groenewegen.

Staff Housing
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

I understand the Member's concern. It is unfortunately still a fact of life in the North that we have to attract professional, trained people to the communities to serve in various capacities, and it wasn't two weeks ago that I heard the principal of Fort Good Hope on the radio talking about the rent that he paid and some of the conditions in the housing that he was provided by the government. It is a concern because a lot of these people come in to the communities and they don't have the luxury or the option of going out and renting somewhere else. There is no private market in these communities so they are obligated to live in those houses and pay those rents.

But I do think that, by what this gentleman was saying, the government could probably keep them in somewhat better repair. I am not entirely familiar. I am more familiar with the rent scale in relation to public housing than I am to staff housing. So that is something that may warrant looking at, and I would want to familiarize myself with that change and see how it did affect staff housing because it is not something I am familiar with. Thank you.

Staff Housing
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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The Chair Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Roland.

Continuance Of Decentralization
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have two questions for both candidates. We have touched on a number of issues here when it comes to community transfer initiatives and the work the government does.

The first question: Will you, as Premier, be committed to the continuance of the process of decentralization?

Continuance Of Decentralization
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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The Chair Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Continuance Of Decentralization
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In as much as decentralization is, again, economic and makes sense, I would support it. I sometimes have a problem with some initiatives and things when it becomes an exercise in reshuffling. I mean, how many times does the government consolidate and then decentralize? It seems like it's just kind of an ever-changing, fluid thing. So I think that when there is decentralization, it has to be well thought out, well planned. The broad impact of it has to be examined, and when that it is done, when it makes sense and when it brings the delivery of services closer to the people to which it delivers services, I would support it. Thank you.

Continuance Of Decentralization
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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The Chair Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Morin.

Continuance Of Decentralization
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Decentralization has got to benefit the people at the community level. That is the bottom line. If we are going to decentralize to the regions, it ultimately has to end up at the community so the communities can control their own programs. If we get a better bang for our buck by doing that, then we should do it and we should continue to do it. Ultimately that is the key for us as Members of this Assembly, how we can get the dollar from this level to the community level in the smoothest and the most effective way. Thank you.

Continuance Of Decentralization
Nominations For Premier
Election Of Premier

Page 38

The Chair Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Your second question, Mr. Roland.