Good afternoon. Orders of the day for Friday, February 28, 1992. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Hon. Stephen Kakfwi will be absent from the House on March 3rd and 4th, to attend a meeting of provincial/territorial Ministers responsible for aboriginal affairs. Provincial and territorial officials met in Yellowknife last spring to plan this meeting following the Oka crisis and the disintegration of the Meech Lake Accord. The NWT delegation will have full status at this meeting.

As well, the Hon. John Ningark will also be absent on March 3rd, 4th and 5th, to attend various meetings in Vancouver and Ottawa. These include: meeting with the Hon. John Crosbie to discuss the Baffin fishery and quotas, and Government of the Northwest Territories' representation in the Department of Fisheries and Oceans' departmental reform process in relation to licensing and allocation issues; a meeting with the Fur Institute of Canada and Indigenous Survival International, as part of his ongoing commitment to support the fur industry; a meeting with the Canadian committee on UNESCO to promote the use of traditional knowledge in resource management; the National Forest Congress to sign an accord to ratify the national forest strategy, and to meet with a representative of the BC Minister of Forests to discuss transboundary forest issues in the Fort Liard area. Thank you.

Ministers' statements. Ministers' statements. Mr. Whitford.

Ministers' statements. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When we did our work as Members of the special committee on the northern economy and reported a couple of years ago to the 11th Assembly, one of the recommendations that we had was that one of the basic weaknesses in our economy was the provision of financial services. There were very few banks in the Northwest Territories, and people who did not have access to financial services were disadvantaged in our economy.

Some attempts have been made recently to try to access federal funding through the CAEDS, Canadian Aboriginal Economic Development Strategy, program. This has been stalled simply because no arrangement could be made whereby any kind of banking service can access this money simply because there is some fear about funding any kind of organization in which deposits are involved.

Mr. Speaker, over the next while, since many of us still believe that basic banking services are a major weakness in our economy, we will be using every kind of device possible to try to provide some kind of solution to this problem. We do not know exactly what it is, but this is a real problem which needs to be resolved, and I will be asking Members of the government to try to help us get it resolved. Thank you.

Members' statements. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, have a statement further to the statement made by my colleague, Mr. Lewis. We, in the northern regions have so-called banking facilities through the Hudson's Bay stores and the co-ops. This is a big problem, especially when we want to transfer money outside of our communities. There has to be a resolution about the banking problem within the Territories. We have to improve our economy. A lot of our money is being spent outside the communities because of the lack of facilities. I will be asking about this further because there are other methods of providing banking facilities. This

problem, which was raised by Mr. Lewis, is something I wanted to add to. Thank you.

Members' statements. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to express my continuing concern over the so-called sobriety requirement which the Minister of Social Services has decided to force on alcohol and drug workers throughout the Northwest Territories.

Today I will speak about the content of this policy, in a later statement, I will express my concern about the Minister's implementation process. I have many difficulties with the entire concept, Mr. Speaker. There is no credible research to demonstrate that a policy of this nature actually leads to significant improvement in treatment outcome. The policy cannot be enforced, as neither the Minister nor the project sponsors wish to sneak around spying on workers to see if they are taking a drink.

The policy may be placing alcohol and drug project sponsors in a position where they may eventually become subject to human rights litigation in the courts. Most of all, I am opposed to this because it treats all alcohol and drug workers -- and anyone who takes a social drink from time to time -- as addicts who are incapable of being good role models. This sort of thinking is false and mistaken.

Mr. Speaker, our alcohol and drug project has worked very hard to establish itself as an effective resource agency within the community. The committee has a good working relationship with the addiction counsellors in the community. The standard for staff conduct and performance has been developed and is appropriate for our community.

Mr. Speaker, it has been demoralizing and frustrating for our people in Baffin to have the standards and working environment we established for our community overturned by the current Minister. Later I will have more to say about this process the Minister has used to force his ideas on us. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Members' statements. Members' statements. Returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Pudlat on February 20, 1992. In reply to your question on the training process for tourism operators in the Baffin Region, the Department of Economic Development and Tourism, in conjunction with Arctic College, has developed a two-level guide training program. Level one courses cover all the universal skills of the tourism industry, including an introduction to tourism, marketing, first aid, camp set-up, trip planning, boat safety, menu preparation, et cetera. This course is also a prerequisite to the level two course. Level two courses cover more specific industry requirements. These include a course in sports fishing, a course in sports hunting and a course in interpreting natural and cultural resources. All courses are approximately three weeks in length.

Up until 1990, 62 people in the Baffin have successfully completed the level one course, with 38 of these also completing at least one of the level two courses. Today, 67 per cent are working as outfitters and guides throughout the region.

A three-week level one guide training course is planned to be delivered in Pangnirtung between April 13 and May 1. Residents of Lake Harbour have been encouraged to attend, and initial responses from the community have been favourable. Following completion of the mandatory level one course, a level two course in interpretation is being recommended for delivery out of Lake Harbour during 1993. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This question was asked on February 20 by Mr. Pudlat. It concerns funding to assist the environmental committees and residents of Sanikiluaq to deal with the environmental review of the Great Whale hydroelectric project. The Government of the Northwest Territories, through the Department of Renewable Resources, has provided a total of $25,000 to support the participation of the environmental committee and residents of Sanikiluaq prepare for the environmental review of the Great Whale hydroelectric project.

Specifically, the government has: 1) provided the Sanikiluaq environmental committee with $10,000 in 1990 to send representatives to meetings in Great Whale and Montreal; and 2) contributed $15,000 in the 1991-92 fiscal year to the hamlet of Sanikiluaq to support their involvement in preliminary meetings prior to the public review process and the availability of intervenor funding.

The government has also: 1) committed $15,000 over two years to support the cumulative impact study of the Canadian Arctic Resources Committee, Rawson Academy of Aquatic Sciences and the Sanikiluaq environmental committee. The Sanikiluaq environmental committee will take the lead in examining traditional knowledge of the area; and 2) retained the services of the Rawson Academy of Aquatic Sciences to obtain expert advice on water-related issues.

A fund of two million dollars, financed equally by the Government of Canada and Quebec, will be available to assist eligible parties or individuals in the assessment and review of the project. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to the oral question asked by Mr. Gargan on February 27, 1990, with respect to vehicle accidents in the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, on Wednesday, February 26, the day before yesterday, I reported that 73 per cent of all highway accidents occurred in the highway corridors of Highways No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3. Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, the Member for Deh Cho followed up on my report and asked me for the absolute numbers of accidents on the highway system.

The most reliable traffic accident data I can quote is for the calendar year 1989. In 1989, there were 995 traffic accidents reported in the Northwest Territories involving property damage over $1000. Of these, 829 occurred within a municipality and 166 took place on the highway system. As I said in the House, 73 per cent of these accidents, or 121, occurred on the Highways No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3 corridor.

Although I am less confident with the data for the total number of traffic accidents in 1990 and 1991, the pattern of highway accidents does remain roughly the same as I reported. The highway corridor of Highways No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3 accounts for 70 per cent of reported accidents in 1990 and 66 per cent in 1991. Thank you

Returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell, point of order.

Point Of Order

I rise on a point of privilege today. Mr. Speaker, in reviewing the unedited Hansard, I am somewhat at a loss as to why I was cut off yesterday, and under what rule or authority this happened. I know I cannot question the authority of the Speaker, but I would ask that you review page 625, because I feel my fundamental privilege to pose questions in the House has been curtailed without clarification. Thank you.

I think this is a point of order, not a point of privilege, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. I will review Hansard and give a ruling later on today. Oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Social Services. Mr. Speaker and honourable Members will remember that on February 13, 1992, I tabled Tabled Document 3-12(2) so that the House would be aware of the resolution passed by the Deh Cho Regional Council which supports the policy respecting the sobriety of alcohol and drug workers.

Some unwarranted criticism of this policy originally came from officials with provincial alcohol and drug administrations in southern Canada. Many of these officials have never been to the Northwest Territories. I realize that senior officials in the department's alcohol and drug division, as well as the community mental health services division, meet regularly with their counterparts in southern Canada. Will the Minister direct his officials to make a report to other alcohol and drug organizations about the success of this important policy? Thank you.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Does the Minister agree with me that the likelihood of a positive treatment outcome is enhanced when alcohol and drug counsellors are able to function effectively as role models to their clients and the community at large?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know that the Dene of the Deh Cho region have expressed their support for the Minister's sobriety policy through the resolution I tabled on February 13th. I wonder if the Minister could tell this House about the other supportive correspondence he has received from other parts of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Last supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you. During the 11th Assembly the Department of Social Services completed a very comprehensive strategy plan for the delivery of alcohol and drug treatment services. Among other things that the plan proposed, only the communities which have shown progress in resolving the alcohol and drug problems should be targeted for capital development and addiction treatment facilities. Does the Minister agree with me that one of the ways to measure communities' readiness for capital treatment facilities should be the willingness of the local alcohol and drug abuse project to comply with the sobriety clause?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Social Services regarding the recommendation he has received on his policy requiring alcohol and drug worker sobriety. I understand that this policy arose as a result of a recommendation from the territorial board of management for alcohol and drug services. Can the Minister assure the House that this board of management is presently supportive of the way he is now implementing this sobriety policy?

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Ms. Mike

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My supplementary to the Minister of Social Services. Recognizing that there has not been a representative from Baffin Region on the board of management for almost two years, and that there is now no representative from the Keewatin region either, can the Minister inform the House why he did not ensure that there was an opportunity for this board to consider the opinions of the Eastern Arctic with regard to this abstinence policy?

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Tony keeps stating there are only two communities opposed to this policy in Baffin, which in fact BRC...

Point of order, Mr. Whitford.

Point Of Order

According to our rules, the Member does have a point of order. The rules say you have to address a Member by his or her surname or constituency; at least in this House, he cannot be called Tony. Ms. Mike.

I will call him Tony Whitford, Minister of Social Services. You keep indicating that there are only two communities that are opposed to this clause. How do you understand BRC? Just as one community? It is an organization representing all 13 communities in the Baffin

Mr. Whitford.

How many?

Oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Social Services regarding the drug and alcohol workers in the North. Were there a lot of people who caused your department to disintegrate because there was a lot of alcohol abuse? Did this become a problem, and is that the reason you came up with this clause that disintegrated the Department of Social Services mandate for the social workers in your department? That is my question for the Minister of Social Services.

Minister of Social Services, Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Mr. Speaker, I raised that question because I wanted to know if there were a lot of employees who were abusing alcohol. I am not just telling people to abstain from drinking, but there has to be a way, especially in the North, to develop these programs. I am sure a lot of people are going along with this, but if this were to become law, I am concerned that you may lose a lot of very good employees if they were caught drinking, even though they may be good at their job. Do you not think you will be losing a lot of employees because of this policy? This kind of thing can be good both ways, but you have to consider this in different ways. We, as MLAs, have to consider this policy by looking at it in many different ways. My supplementary question is whether or not you are concerned about losing a lot of good employees because of this clause. Thank you.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Ms. Mike.

My question is for the Minister of Social Services. From what I understand, there is a group forming in Iqaluit to become an agency for Social Services. However, in my community of Pangnirtung, an alcohol and drug committee was formed during the hamlet election. How are you going to get another group going in Pangnirtung when this committee has been elected by the community?

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Do the policy makers adhere to this sobriety clause, including the cabinet?

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

The issue here is not so much the sobriety clause. It is the principle. Now, we are talking about role models. The cabinet is a role model to me. Is the cabinet

going to adhere to the policy?

---Applause

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask a question of the Minister of Social Services. He indicated that no community would be without an alcohol and drug counsellor, and I know there are somewhat to the tune of 39 or 40 communities that have the availability of alcohol and drug counselling services. Does he intend to expand the services so that they could meet the needs of at least the 60 communities that we have in the North?

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Recognizing that the intentions are that in the event that we had the resources, and if the community groups gathered together where they wanted to address the alcohol and drug program, is the Minister indicating to this House that where community groups can formulate a group to address alcohol and drug programs and request funding from him, that he does have the funding available? Thank you.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you. My question is to the Minister of Social Services. One of the problems that has arisen out of this sobriety clause is with regard to whether or not there is some litigation or some constitutional violation by this clause, and I am sure in order for the government to implement such a policy they must have had legal opinions on whether or not we are, in fact, infringing on rights or whether it is unconstitutional. I would like to ask the Minister whether he has had any opinions with regard to the sobriety clause, and whether there may be some legal questions that have to be addressed with regard to that.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Ms. Mike.

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Social Services. It might not be a right; it is a privilege. But when you have to extend the sobriety clause to an employee you are getting into the area of invasion of privacy. Do you agree?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Mr. Speaker, it is good to know that the department has no plans to invade individuals' privacy, but how are we going to enforce this policy if one of the employees decides to be a closet drinker?

Mr. Whitford.

Mr. Speaker, point of order.

Point of order, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Point Of Order

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, since that we on this side cannot ask questions with respect to the former government, I would suggest that the present government be prevented from referring to the former government or the former Minister. Thank you.

---Applause

I will take the point of order under advisement and report back later today. Oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs. The Government Leader has indicated that Mr. Kakfwi will be absent on March 3rd and 4th to attend the conference of provincial/territorial Ministers responsible for aboriginal affairs. I do not know what is on the agenda. A storm has arisen in Toronto at the constitutional conference about the request that aboriginal people should be recognized as forming a distinct society within the constitutional framework which divides Canada.

The National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations has rightly and properly indicated that Canada's native people cannot accept Quebec, being constituted as a distinct society as long as it does not recognize that we do too. Apparently, some of the provincial leaders in Quebec are regrettably unable to accept this position.

Will the Minister indicate to this House today, as the Northwest Territories Minister of Aboriginal and Intergovernmental Affairs, whether or not he supports the legitimate request of native Canadians to be recognized as a distinct society within the Constitution of Canada? Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Social Services. Earlier today, the Minister stated that he did not receive one single resignation from any alcohol and drug worker. I am glad that he did not, but I am kind of surprised. The question is: Who do these people work for, yourself? Or do they work for the individual drug and alcohol centres or societies?

Minister of Social Services, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

If they resign, why would they advise you?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

How many people have resigned from alcohol and drug centres in the Northwest Territories since the Minister put the abstinence policy in place?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister responsible for Renewable Resources, and it is in relation to the Government Leader's statement today where the Minister will be attending a national forest congress to ratify our national forest strategy. Mr. Speaker, the constituency I represent, I am told, has 60 per cent of the forests in the Northwest Territories, and I have always been concerned about it. As you know, the Liard/Nahanni Valley resource management -- there is an interim committee being set up to mutually look at the land and try to shape what happens on the land, and try to maybe eventually involve an input of community members from that area, so there is a great concern for the valley. I want to know what this national forest congress is and what this national forest strategy is, because I would like to know if it is going to have an effect on the forests in the area I represent. Mahsi.

Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You wanted a reason why I decided to attend the Canadian Council on Forestry meeting in Ottawa. As the Member, and every Member of this House, knows, where I come from we do not have any trees, and this is new to me. I would like to go there and inform myself of forestry management within the Territories and within the country. Also, forestry management is very important to the western part of the Territories. It is part of the economy. If I am not informed on forestry management, then I am not going to be in a position to speak for the people and to this very important forestry management which people from the western part of the Territories rely on for their economic well-being. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.