Good afternoon. Orders of the day for Wednesday, March 25, 1992. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Ministers' statements. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in December, I circulated a discussion paper on access to government to my colleagues in the Legislative Assembly. It contained suggestions for the development of a bill which would combine access to information legislation with a process for assisting the public. We are a small population, but a 'big' territory. We are looking to develop a model which will address the distinct needs of the people of the Northwest Territories.

In principle, access to information legislation takes people to the first step in the process of examining government actions; that is, it gives them a way to obtain the documents. Many, if not the majority of public concerns, however, go beyond getting copies of government papers. Getting the documents does not necessarily solve problems or answer questions.

As you will see from the discussion paper, it proposes that these next steps be within the powers of an 'access to government commissioner' or 'ombudsman,' appointed by and reporting directly to this Assembly. Broad powers of investigation and access to government would be included. A network for intake of complaints or requests would be established, using existing resources wherever possible.

At a time when we are seeking ways of improving the process for government accountability and access, and, at the same time, working in an atmosphere of fiscal restraint, it is doubly important to find creative solutions.

Later today, I will be tabling the discussion paper. As a next step, I will be consulting on it. This way, members of the public as well as the government, will have an opportunity to consider and comment on the philosophy and direction of the initiative. With that assistance, we will be better able to shape the proposal before a more formal process begins. We will aim to introduce a bill in the fall. Qujannamiik.

Ministers' statements. I would like to take this opportunity to welcome a group of students in the gallery. The students are from Alberta and Saskatchewan in Canada; and from Brazil, Japan and South Africa. They are visiting Yellowknife under the sponsorship of the Rotary northern experience program.

--- Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Dent.

Members' statements. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

My personal experiences with the Kazan River, which is what the book is about, are limited to the Kazan Falls; however, I have had the experience of capsizing on the river in early summer. I do not think I can begin to tell you how cold it is when you fall into that river.

I have known the author, Mr. Pelly, now for about 10 years, and get to see him every year when he has completed another of his trips down one of the many rivers which flow into Baker Lake.

The book, "Journey Into An Emerging Land", explores the natural and cultural history of the Kazan River. The story begins 7000 years ago when the last ice age ended and the ice retreated from what is now the Keewatin. Since then, a new landscape has formed; vegetation, birds and animals arrived, and both Inuit and Dene people came to live and hunt. These stages in the history of a Barren Lands' river are told by different scientists, each one of whom has travelled and studied the Kazan River. Much of the field work behind the book was done by Operation Raleigh which is an international expedition for youth. Never before has such a complete description of an Arctic river been published. Added to this are the thoughts, sketches and impressions of young people from all around the world who have paddled down the Kazan River. They visited Baker Lake for a week at the end of their trip, and built two playgrounds which the children of that community will be using for many years to come.

His Royal Highness, The Prince of Wales, Prince Charles, wrote the foreword in which he explains the importance of this book...

Mr. Arngna'naaq, your time has expired.

I seek unanimous consent to continue with my statement.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Proceed, please.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and honourable Members. Referring to the mystery of the North and, specifically, the mystery of the Kazan River Valley, the Prince of Wales writes: "To seek solutions of that mystery is important both for the land and for its inhabitants. Only in the quest to understand, do people develop a respect. The more we understand the unique environment that has emerged in the Arctic Barren Lands, the more we will value that wilderness. Only in establishing a record of the human life that once depended on that environment, can we ensure the preservation of a cultural heritage unlike any other in the world. The valley of the Kazan River today is a wilderness; no one lives there and few travel there. The mystery of the emerging land endures. Its natural and cultural heritage is rich. In an awareness of that heritage lies the key to its preservation." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is in response to Question O268-12(2), asked by Mr. Pudlat on March 5, 1992. There are currently eight economic development officers serving 14 Baffin communities, of which three positions are serving the Baffin South riding. The department has an EDO stationed in Cape Dorset, and an officer serving Lake Harbour from Iqaluit.

The department has also entered into a contract with the Hamlet of Sanikiluaq to hire a community business development officer. This officer will work for the hamlet on economic development projects and issues. Hiring for the Sanikiluaq community business development officer is under way. Sanikiluaq will participate in the hiring process.

Mr. Speaker, I have a return to Question O264-12(2), asked by Mr. Gargan on March 4, 1992. An economic development officer was hired in November 1991, for the community of Fort Providence. The EDO, Mr. Victor Sudermann, has been working out of Fort Smith and has been in Fort Providence on several occasions. Mr. Sudermann will be posted full time in Fort Providence as soon as office space is available.

Arrangements for office space have been made, and we anticipate that the EDO will move into the new DIGAA Enterprises building in Fort Providence by the end of March. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Morin,

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to Question O339-12(2), asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on March 24, 1992. The lease for the Husky rental units expires on August 31, 1995.

I have a return to Question O97-12(2), asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on February 20, 1992. The reasons for amending the business incentive policy were to:

a) provide for a better enforcement of the policy in order to ensure that the benefits of the policy are extended only to bona fide northern businesses and that "storefront" businesses do not benefit;

b) recognize the additional costs of operating in the smaller northern communities by providing a level of local preference;

c) ensure that all contracting organizations follow the GNWT preference policies so long as they receive the majority of their funding from the GNWT;

d) provide financial support, through the reinvestment of corporate earnings, to the northern economy.

Thank you

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to Question O333-12(2), asked by Mr. Gargan yesterday. Mr. Gargan expressed his concern for the well-being of Ms. Kitty Nowdluk-Reynolds, whose complaint to the RCMP Public Complaints Commission is being heard in Iqaluit now. I have contacted the RCMP and have been informed that Ms. Reynolds' expenses for legal counsel are being covered by the commission.

Mr. Gargan asked specifically whether professional and personal assistance will be provided by my department to Ms. Reynolds, if she requests it. There are two specific victims' programs under the mandate of my department. One is the Victims' Assistance Committee. Money from a surcharge on fines is disbursed to organizations for training and other initiatives, so that victims may be assisted at the community level. The other is under the Criminal Injuries Compensation Act, a program which allows victims of crime to make application for losses suffered by them as a result of a criminal action against them. This is a program in which we respect the wishes of victims to maintain a certain amount of confidentiality. Other than that, we do not have the mandate or resources to step in and lend assistance.

I do appreciate the honourable Member's concern for the well-being of Ms. Nowdluk-Reynolds. I share that concern, but it is now a matter for the commission to deal with, and it is not appropriate for me to say anything further on it at this time. Thank you.

Returns to oral questions. Returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, I would not expect the Member to provide me with numerous examples of that kind to encourage me to pursue his request. I would note, though, that there was quite a lot of consultation that went into the development of this program among various agencies involved in the administration of justice, and I would feel obliged to consult again in order to complete an earlier evaluation, which would take a little bit of time. But I have taken careful note of the Member's eloquent statement today, and I can assure him that I will see what I can do to complete an earlier evaluation than had been planned initially. Thank you.

Oral question. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. Earlier in this session the Minister assured me that the water line project for Arviat was going to go ahead. But I have not heard any definite confirmation on this. I know that the Minister has indicated that they will be reallocating funds to do this. I would like to know if he has any definite confirmation of this project. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Minister.

Mr. Speaker, it was just a few weeks ago that I made the commitment in this Legislature to do what I could to advance this project. That was, of course, a recommendation of the standing committee on finance, which this government and this department is taking very seriously. I would have to tell the Member that today I cannot provide any concrete information about this project, but I can tell him that the department has several very good and live possibilities for ways in which, through down-sizing or other reallocations within the departmental budget, moneys can be diverted to advancing this project as the committee recommended.

I do wish to point out that some survey work is required, which I am told will happen as soon as break-up occurs and as soon as we can get on the land and look at the Wolf Creek and the best place for putting in an intake. That will happen early in the summer. I will pursue that with diligence, and I think that perhaps by the time we next sit, I should have some very solid information for the honourable Member about our ability to complete that project this summer, and I am optimistic about that. Thank you.

Oral questions. Ms. Mike.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question to the Minister of Renewable Resources. Last year the polar bear survey was completed. In the 11th Assembly the Minister of Renewable Resources went to Pangnirtung to inform the people of Pangnirtung of the results of the polar bear survey. The hunters in Pangnirtung are looking forward to hear if the quota will be larger than last year. Could you give me an answer as soon as possible?

Mr. Ningark.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will take the question as notice and answer later on.

Question has been taken as notice. Oral questions, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Safety and Public Services about the lotteries policy that regulates the licensing of bingo operations for charitable purposes. It is my understanding that presently the government will only provide bingo licences for organizations considered as registered charities, In some circumstances, though, the charitable organizations have found it best to establish themselves as corporations without share capital. The profits do not go to the directors of the corporation but

are reinvested to promote social and cultural objectives within the community.

The Uqqurmiut centre for arts and crafts in Pangnirtung is a good example of this sort of community venture. Is the Minister willing to re-evaluate eligibility requirements for the issuance of licences for bingos?

Mr. Patterson.

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Under the general rules for lotteries in the lotteries information booklet, it states that licences can be issued for purposes beneficial to the community, including the promotion of cultural activities or the teaching of arts and crafts. Is the Minister aware that organizations like the Uqqurmiut Inuit Artists' Association carry out those activities but may fall outside the narrow definition of charitable organizations under the legislation?

Mr. Patterson.

Well, I am aware now if I was not before, Mr. Speaker. I certainly heard the Member's submissions on that. I should note that during the previous year a lottery review was conducted which accepted input from a number of bodies that were concerned about the lottery regulations. That review could well result in changes to the regulations and could address the point that the honourable Member has raised. So I will take into account his advice and concern, and also the public input that was sought last year, and attempt to address the issue that has been brought to my attention today. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is obviously an issue that affects the group in Pangnirtung. Would the Minister be willing to direct his officials involved with the licensing of bingos to travel to Pangnirtung and meet with the representatives of the community and the artists' association to explore the possible avenues for reconciling the differences and for them to get future bingo licences?

Mr. Patterson.

Well, of course, Mr. Speaker, I would want to consult with the MLA for that community before making such an undertaking. But if that is a request that is coming from the community, I certainly would be open to have someone meet with the particular association.

I will point out that lottery licensing responsibility has been delegated to regional directors in the various regions, although there are people in headquarters responsible. So it might be possible to avoid sending someone all the way from

Yellowknife to meet with the group. It may be possible to have their concern dealt with within the region. At any rate, Mr. Speaker, I will certainly look at following up on that request in consultation with the MLA for that community.

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Health. I have recently acquired a copy of the transcript of the CBC News this morning, Mackenzie Morning, done by the Minister of Health this morning with one of the reporters. It brings some concern to me, not only as an MLA but as a woman in the Territories. It is in regard to the issue of abortion. Can the Minister advise this House whether or not abortions that are being performed at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital are following the same procedures that are used in other parts of the country? Are the same medical procedures being used?

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Can the Minister indicate to me, where?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister indicate to this House whether or not, when abortions are performed, there is anesthetic given to the patient, which is normal practice, apparently, in other parts of the country?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Following up with Mrs. Marie-Jewell's questions, I would like to ask the Minister whether the women being given the abortions are advised of the difficulty they may be experiencing and whether they are given the opportunity for medication if they do ask.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Health in respect to reviewing some of the comments that he had in his interview with CBC. He indicated, and I would like to quote, "I do not think people who seek abortions are forced into seeking an abortion, and they are not forced into having an abortion." I would like the Minister to clarify what he meant by this public statement in respect to abortions.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell, supplementary.

Mr. Speaker, I know in accordance with the rules that any Member, at any time, can bring forth a point of privilege. I am sure that Mr. Whitford could have brought forth his point of privilege at any point in time.

But I would like to get back to the question that I asked the Minister. He did indicate in his comments that he did not think people seeking abortions are forced into seeking abortions and they are not forced into having abortions. What did he mean when he made such a statement'? He did publicly make this type of statement, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell,

I would like to ask if the Minister of Health is aware that many of the women who are recommended for, or request, such procedure, and appear at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital in respect to abortions are in fact women who have possibly miscarried and not really women that want to have abortions. They have no choice in seeking such elective surgery. Is the Minister aware of this?

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, obviously, the Minister has not understood my question, nor does he understand what I am speaking about. I have indicated to the Minister that these procedures with respect to abortions being performed are not only because of a woman wanting to have an abortion; they could be because of the result of a miscarriage that the same type of elective surgery is done to women. Earlier, I had asked the Minister if he is aware of this; that is, medical elective surgery is somewhat similar. Is he aware that similar procedures are used?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. A new question, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, I did not realize I used all my supplementaries on my initial question, but I am thinking of how to develop a new question. Mr. Speaker, I am concerned now that the Minister's reply indicated that he is not a medical professional. I recognize that; however, I do know that he does have a lot of resources for medical professionals that are made available to him as a Minister through his department. I would like to know whether or not the Minister has had any types of briefings with respect to the issue of abortions, and the definition of abortion by medical officials.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

I do not know if I should make an attempt, Mr. Speaker, to try to educate the Minister, but can I ask the Minister if he realizes that a spontaneous abortion is another word for a miscarriage?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. It has been about three years now, Mr. Speaker, since I lobbied the government to see whether or not an interpreter from Hay River could be moved to the Hay River Reserve. The reason for the delay is that they are considering the amalgamation of that department. I would like to know which department the Department of Culture and Communications would be moved to.

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, no decisions have been made in that regard. I would be speculating if I said it was going to go here or there. I am aware of the problem Mr. Gargan is raising, and I will talk to the Government Leader as soon as she returns to see if we can straighten out the issue. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Speaker, I understand the arrangement now is that anybody from Hay River that is working on the Hay River Reserve is being compensated for gasoline or travel. Anybody working on the Hay River Reserve and travelling to Hay River is not being given similar arrangements, and I would like to know why.

Mr. Pollard.

I am aware of that, as well, Mr. Speaker. At the same time as I am trying to find out why the position cannot be transferred to the Hay River Reserve, I will also try to find out why there is no compensation for travelling one way when there is when you are travelling the other way. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Oral questions. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Health if he supports the requirement for anesthetic services to individuals requesting or having abortions performed.

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Has the Minister instructed or given any instruction about financing or providing the necessary services at the Yellowknife Stanton Hospital for such services?

Mr. Whitford.

Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister if any of his staff has met with the administration and management board of Stanton Yellowknife Hospital to discuss this particular issue.

Mr. Whitford.

Last supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you. I would like to ask the Minister if there have been any resolutions to the concerns that have been raised.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister responsible for the Status of Women. I would like to advise him that it has been reported that the Status of Women Council has received as many as 14 complaints from women who have had abortions in Yellowknife. The executive director has indicated that she took these complaints to the Department of Health but got nowhere with them. I would like to know if the Minister supports the concerns raised by the council in respect to this issue of abortions.

Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am in the process of having a meeting to talk about the issue. I do support the concern of the Status of Women Council.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, besides meeting with the Status of Women Council, I would like to ask what role the Minister is prepared to play in responding to women who feel they have been violated as a result of surgical procedures carried out at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital.