To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Arctic College, Total Capital, As Amended, Agreed

Total activity, as amended. Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

I was going to consider calling the total capital expenditures under this department; however, I believe it is necessary to make the financial changes, including the additions and deletions, so that the House consents to the total amount. So I will not call the total amount at this particular time, but I will get the totals together and then we can do it appropriately.

That concludes the Department of Education at this particular time. What is the wish of the committee? Just prior to proceeding to Mr. Todd, I want to thank the Minister and the witnesses. If I could receive direction from the committee as to what department we will do next. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The next department is the NWT Housing Corporation. I would like to suggest that we go with a five-minute break and then proceed with the NWT Housing Corporation. I would like to proceed. We have had a spirited debate this afternoon. I would like to suggest we have a break.

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Chairman, the charter that we were going to take to Cambridge Bay is delayed until 5:30 because the plane has not come in to pick us up. At that point we will be losing Mr. Bernhardt, Mr. Koe, Mr. Zoe, myself and Mr. Allooloo. I wonder if you would do a count and see if you have enough to keep going.

I have no problem delaying it.

Is it the wish of the House that we have a five-minute break?

Agreed.

---SHORT RECESS

NWT Housing Corporation

I will call the House back to order. Is it the wish of the committee that we deal with the Housing Corporation?

Agreed.

Mr. Morin, do you have opening remarks with regard to the capital budget of the Housing Corporation?

Minister's Opening Remarks

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The mandate of the Housing Corporation is to assist residents of the NWT in accordance with need; to secure and maintain adequate, suitable and affordable shelter at a reasonable cost. These three terms: adequate, suitable and affordable shelter, are national standards that the federal, provincial and territorial government housing agencies use to determine the need and eligibility for social housing.

NWT Housing Needs Growing

Housing needs in the NWT are large and growing, and with a birth rate that is double the national average and the high rate of new families, the demand will remain high. The growing need for social housing, combined with the need to make budget cuts provides a real challenge for the Housing Corporation.

In its effort to meet this housing need, the corporation plans to build 232 public housing units and 152 home-ownership assistance units in 1992-93. This is a net increase to the social housing stock of 384 units, a net production that is higher than in 1990-91 and 1991-92.

The corporation also plans to retrofit 42 old public housing units, the Weber units. As a result of overall federal government restraint Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, the corporation's federal funding partner, reduced the Housing Corporation's allocation of federal units by 15 per cent. In 1991-92 CMHC also introduced a new model which has significant implications for housing in the North.

Changes In Funding

In the past, the Housing Corporation received its allocation in terms of overall federal housing units. This allowed the GNWT to fund the Housing Corporation to deliver a certain number of cost-shared units, no matter what the lifetime operating costs of those units. Starting in the fiscal year 1991-92, CMHC began funding according to a fixed dollar amount, rather than a fixed number of housing units. In other words, the Housing Corporation received an amount of funding that included the capital costs for constructing social housing units and their lifetime operating costs.

High lifetime operating costs -- for example, high water and sewage rates -- means less moneys available for the construction of new housing units. It is, therefore, critical that the individual occupants contribute more toward the costs of operating and maintaining their homes. Both the corporation and the public must join in a combined effort to reduce costs.

While the changes in funding will have an effect on how funds are distributed over all our programs, the corporation has a greater degree of flexibility to follow overall government direction and encourage people to become private home-owners.

Given the urgent housing needs, the rapidly growing population and the present climate of fiscal restraint, it is essential that new options be explored to encourage private investment in housing.

Over the course of the coming year, the corporation will be reviewing all its program policies and procedures. Clearly defined policies and guidelines are needed to ensure that scarce resources are allocated as effectively and equitably as possible. Appropriate changes to programs will be made and the corporation will ensure that program guidelines are closely followed.

Needs Survey

The next needs survey will be conducted in early 1992. Corporation staff are currently in the process of improving the questionnaire to ensure that the data provides a more accurate profile of the housing need in the communities. It is essential that both communities and corporation staff are confident in the survey's reliability as an accurate guide for housing allocations.

To the extent possible, social housing dollars should be aimed at households in greatest need. The corporation will continue to explore new ways to encourage home-ownership and aid in the development of a private rental market in communities. The corporation is developing options for those persons who do not qualify for the home-ownership assistance program because they either earn too much or too little.

Special Program To Meet Needs Of Elderly

Special attention is being paid to the elderly population and the particular housing problems they have. For example, a number of smaller communities have no public housing and elders often find themselves living in old, small, very substandard privately owned accommodation. As well as providing more information about repair programs for elders, the corporation started to replace these substandard units with small, mechanically simple, but good quality new homes for elders in selected communities. The corporation will build on this idea and develop program specifically to meet the unique needs of the elderly population. It is intended to have a program developed in time to begin implementation this year.

While the main emphasis for the corporation in 1992-93, as in the past, will be the delivery of critically needed housing, these activities will be framed within GNWT priorities, particularly those of economic development and community government.

Over the past decade the corporation has had considerable success in hiring and training local residents to manage and maintain our housing stock. The corporation will strengthen these efforts and will work in close co-operation with local housing organizations, community groups and government departments to create more opportunities for trades and professional training.

In addition, the Housing Corporation will utilize various tendering methods to ensure maximum local and northern involvement. To that end, programs will be delivered in a number of ways: labour-only contracts; supply, ship and erect contracts; design/build contracts; and projects where the corporation will be the project manager. The objective of all four tendering methods is to maximize training, business and employment opportunities for local residents.

Another key focus of the Housing Corporation in 1992-93 will be to work closely with government to develop and implement the government's community transfer initiatives. The corporation will begin the development of a strategy which will be used to facilitate and guide the implementation of this priority.

The total capital budget is $62,878,000, of which CMHC's share is $35,430,000 and the Government of the Northwest Territories' share is $27,448,000.

The capital funds requested will provide for 384 new houses. With fiscal restraint every effort is being made to target limited funds to those households most in need of assistance. The corporation is improving its programming and administrative practice to ensure the best use of limited resources, and at the same time meet the social housing needs of Northerners. In support of the community transfer initiatives, the corporation will strengthen its efforts and create additional training opportunities for local residents through its programs.

The initiatives I just reviewed show a great deal of innovation and flexibility, which the corporation will continue to strive for as we work toward our goals. There is a real limit to what the corporation and CMHC can do, the limit being the amount of territorial and federal dollars available for the construction, operation and maintenance of social housing. Only a combined effort can address the fiscal realities of today. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I was going to say I hope you build the houses as fast as you talk. Mahsi. Mr. Todd.

Comments From The Standing Committee On Finance

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Do we get equal time? Anyway, Mr. Chairman, previous standing committees on finance have indicated their active support for housing as a high priority. There has been a comprehensive audit and many internal studies, and yet the corporation still appears to be in a state of confusion. The corporation's capital estimates fall far short of the aggressive goals recommended by the previous standing committee.

This committee recognizes that the new management needs time to implement change; however it is essential that an action plan on how we are going to meet the needs of the communities be developed, along with the appropriate schedules; who, when, how and what. You cannot build a house without a blueprint and good project management. We certainly cannot build a housing corporation without a good blueprint and good management.

With respect to the Housing Corporation's budget, the standing committee on finance recommended that:

1) cabinet re-examine government capital projects in light of the fundamental housing needs, and develop a 10-year plan to eliminate the public housing shortfall. This, of course, was previously recommended by our colleague from across the way;

2) the corporation complete a credible housing needs survey as soon as possible, and commit that those communities that did not receive a fair and equitable allocation of housing units this year, be caught up in next year's budget, and that the NWT Housing Corporation consult with the communities on the allocation between HAP and public housing units to ensure the needs of all the residents are addressed. As recommended by the previous standing committee, the NWT Housing Corporation should provide the detail of future years' capital expenditures in the 1993-94 capital estimates and SCOF books;

4) that the corporation provide capital broken down by community in the SCOF books. The committee does not agree with the corporation's concern that making this information public is too erroneous or will drive up the end price. It is beyond us. However, as recommended by the previous committee, the NWT Housing Corporation should build more apartment-type buildings to take advantage of economies of scale to put more housing units into the communities sooner.

The committee does not accept the unsatisfactory response provided by the corporation in the past. It is the responsibility of cabinet to ensure that there is a plan and solid management in place, and we certainly intend to monitor in the future that this takes place. Thank you.

Thank you. Is the Minister prepared to bring in his witnesses?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can I bring in my witnesses?

Is it the consent of the House that the honourable Member bring in the witnesses?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Mr. Minister, would you introduce your witnesses, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my left is Larry Elkin, president of the Housing Corporation; and on my right is Jim Pratt, vice-president of finance.

Thank you. General comments on the Housing Corporation. Mr. Dent.