Mr. Dent.

Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, as I said in question period today, the Japanese market is targeted for true Inuit sculpture and art. We are not playing around with handicrafts or crafts in that particular area. The Toronto kiosk is aimed more at handicrafts and crafts, as opposed to art. So, yes, they would obviously be of a lower price. That is not to say that we will not have some high-end items on display, but we certainly will not be loading an inventory with that. This is handicrafts as opposed to art being made available for sale in the Toronto kiosk. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

General comments. Mr. Antoine.

Future Plans For NWT Development Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a few comments about Economic Development and Tourism. I am one of the MLAs that is on the standing committee on finance, and in the documents that we have here, the NWT Development Corporation takes up 69 per cent of the total budget for capital on Economic Development and Tourism this year. It takes a big percentage of the total capital. I feel that we need more information, and I would like to get more information for the re-examination of the priorities for the cost and benefit basis. There are a lot of different fundamental needs in the North presently and programs and services to be delivered to the people in the communities, that is the most important thing right now. With the Development Corporation, last year they were allocated $10 million, and this year they are asking for eight million dollars. How long is this going to go on? Is it going to go on indefinitely? Will we be putting money into this Development Corporation every year?

We saw a list in our discussions of what kind of investment is taking place. If this continues, the NWT Development Corporation will eventually own all the businesses in the North. I want to know what the strategy is, what the game plan is behind the NWT Development Corporation. Is it going to continue until we own all the businesses or is this for a short period of time or for the next couple of years? Can the Minister clarify that for me, please?

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The guiding line has been where the private sector cannot or will not; that is what the Development Corporation has been guided by. I share the same concerns as the Member, and that is that eventually you become a fairly large corporation that is government-owned and is competing with the private

sector. So what we are hoping to do is that as businesses become viable, as they become able to stand on their own two feet, then we would hope to be able to spin those businesses off to the people who are working in them or somebody else who may be interested in that particular community. So I think it is a matter of nurturing the business, getting it standing and spinning it off to the private sector or to the employees that are working there. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Possibility For Businesses To Become Viable

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to know, as each business has been joint ventured with or bought outright, like the Patterson Sawmill, and so forth -- there are quite a few of them -- is there a plan for each specific venture on when there is a possibility that these businesses becoming viable? Is there some sort of a strategy in place on how to deal with this? I want to know if there is a strategy for each business or each venture that was entered into, and how many years are we looking at for these businesses to become viable? Thank you.

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Some of these ventures may never become what the private sector would say is viable. They may never produce a profit, but I guess if you look at it from government's point of view and you look at it across all the departments of government and you ask, is it better that I am subsidizing a job and putting somebody to work and they are doing something meaningful, and it is costing me twenty cents on the dollar to do that, or is it better that we just pay the person to stay at home with social welfare? So there are some businesses that are there and will never make a true profit in the capitalist sense of the word, and we accept that. That is what this corporation was designed to do, in some instances to do that kind of thing.

There are other instances where the business may not make a profit, but it may not lose any money, either, and it is sort of not attractive to buy it because it is sitting in the middle. That is okay with us too, as long as it employs people and it makes products or it does some useful function and contributes to the community. There are other businesses, and Patterson Sawmill is one of them, that we believe that within three to five years, depending on the price of lumber, can be made profitable, and we can spin that back to the private sector.

So there is a mixture of things in that particular development corporation, and not all of them can be said to be profitable, or ever hope to become profitable, but they do serve the purpose, in our mind, of employment, useful activity and perhaps a better sense of one's self in being gainfully employed. Even though, to us, it may be a loss in the Department of Economic Development and Tourism, when you factor in the Minister of Social Services and what he might have to pay out, to the overall government it is probably a profit, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Member for Nahendeh.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to know from the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism regarding the NWT Development Corporation, is there a point of time where, if a venture is not viable and it is not making money and is not doing the things you are saying of providing a job, is there going to be a point in time when these businesses are considered to be a bad investment and the government pulls out of it? Thank you.

Mr. Minister.

There are certain guidelines placed upon ventures that may start losing money, and if it gets outside of that envelope that has been placed on it by the Financial Management Board, then the NWT Development Corporation would have to report that back to the Financial Management Board for a decision, so it is not as though you can go and lose all kinds of money. There is a limit that has been set down by the Financial Management Board, and hopefully those businesses stay within that loss factor. If it does not, obviously it would have to go back to the Financial Management Board for decision. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Antoine.

Highways As A Means To Draw Tourists

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have other comments that I want to move on to. The Minister knows that my constituency has highways in our area, and there is an initiative by the communities along that highway to try to draw tourists by road into our area. He is very much aware of it, since he is from Hay River and is involved with the loop through northern Alberta and northern BC communities trying to draw tourists into our part of the world. The turnoff to the Northwest Territories and northern BC has a very small sign, and it is very hard to see when you are driving up north through BC. I know there is going to be a sign put in place, but I would like to see something bigger and better eventually, because we have a lot of tours that go on the Alaska Highway right by our doorstep and it would be good if we could somehow attract them. A nice big sign is okay, but there should be some plan put in place by the department to try to draw the tourists more into our part of the country.

I know there is a big capital item for Dawson, in the Yukon, and it is in another territory, but something similar to that would be appropriate for us in our part of the country. People drive by Enterprise and Hay River and the Member for Hay River -- his constituency will benefit from such a venture. I just want to end my comments at this point. Thank you.

Do you want to respond to that, Mr. Minister?

The Member will not get any argument from me, Mr. Chairman. I hear what he is saying. I have seen pictures of the turnoff, off the BC highway, and I am going to go down there this summer and drive the whole thing. We are upgrading a whole lot of things along that particular stretch of the highway, and it is in our best interest, as well, as a government, to make use of those facilities because we need people to come up that highway. This year, we will be putting a new sign at the turnoff. As I said, I am going to go down there and look at the turnoff myself, because from the pictures it does not look that grand a turnoff. We are also interested in looking at working with BC about upgrading that turnoff. The sign is in the budget for this year. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know you have said it, but I would like it clear for the record. There is a recognition within the department, with respect to the Northwest Territories Development Corporation, that in certain areas there is a requirement for government intervention within the economy of whatever activity it is. That is what I am hearing, that profit may not necessarily be the primary motive. We could be looking at employment, et cetera. To me it is just an allocation of dollars. Am I correct? I heard you say

it, but I need to hear you say it once again.

Mr. Minister.

Mixed Bag Of Ventures In NWT Development Corporation

Mr. Chairman, I think Mr. Todd has something to add. I would rather hear the whole thing before -- Mr. Chairman, I believe what I said is that there is a mixed bag of ventures in the NWT Development Corporation. Some of them will never make a profit. They are there to give people something to do, something meaningful to do, to gain some revenue; and some of those businesses in there will always sort of break even or lose a little bit, or make a little bit, but will never be attractive to the private sector. We think some of them will be profitable ventures that we can spin back into the private sector.

There is a mixed bag, as I said, and this corporation is not strictly for profit. It is there for development. If that means human development or business development, they are the same thing to us, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.