Thank you.

Buildings And Works, Total Capital, Agreed

Total buildings and works, $25,994,000. Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed Transportation Planning, Total Capital, Agreed

Total activity, $25,994,000. Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Transportation Department, Total Capital, Agreed

Thank you. We will go back to 11-7. Department of Transportation, program summary, capital expenditures, total capital expenditures, $35,176,000 Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. I would like to thank the Minister and deputy minister for appearing before this committee. What does this committee wish to do now? Go on to the next department? Which department? Does this committee agree that we go on to Economic Development?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Economic Development And Tourism

Thank you. I wonder if the Minister would like to make an opening remark at this time. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, I would respectfully request that the two witnesses from the Department of Economic Development and Tourism be allowed in.

Does this committee agree?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Proceed, Mr. Minister. Mr. Minister, for the record will you introduce your witnesses, please?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my left is the deputy minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Dwight Noseworthy. To my right is Mr. Jim Kennedy, the director of finance, Economic Development and Tourism. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Minister, if you wish to make an opening remark, now is the time.

Mr. Chairman, we have some new conflict of interest guidelines that are in place at the present time. In the past I have been an owner of a fishing lodge in the Northwest Territories that was licensed by this department. I feel it is incumbent upon me to tell the House the instructions that I have issued to the department and to the Government Leader, and read into the record my position on the conflict of interest, Mr. Chairman.

Is that agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Proceed, Mr. Minister.

Conflict Of Interest Statement

Mr. Chairman, this is a letter dated January 10, 1992 to the Government Leader:

"As a Member of the Legislative Assembly and Minister of the Government of the Northwest Territories, GNWT, and in accordance with the GNWT conflict of interest legislation, I have filed my conflict of interest statement with the court of the Legislative Assembly. In addition, I am outlining the following points of clarification for your information:

"The Department of Economic Development and Tourism, along with other Government of the Northwest Territories' departments, conducts inspections of a lodge which is owned by my wife, Ellen Pollard, namely Brabant Lodge. Where required by legislation or policy, and in accordance with all of the terms and conditions of said legislation, the Department of Economic Development and Tourism, along with other GNWT departments, issues licences to Brabant Lodge. Brabant Lodge is licensed by the Department of Renewable Resources to issue sport fishing licences to licensed guests of the lodge on behalf of that department. This service has provided the commission of 10 per cent, per licence, for a total annual revenue of less than $1000.

"At no time has Brabant Lodge accessed grant contribution or loan funding from the GNWT, nor will the current lodge owner, Ellen Pollard, attempt to do so for the duration of my term as Minister of the Government of the Northwest Territories.

"Brabant Lodge has had GNWT departments as clients in the past. The current owner of Brabant Lodge, Ellen Pollard, has agreed not to have GNWT departments as clients for the duration of my term as Minister of the Government of the Northwest Territories, as evidenced in the attached letter.

"Attached are letters of instruction to the Department of Economic Development and Tourism, the Department of Finance, and the Northwest Territories Public Utilities Board, advising them that any dealings between themselves and Brabant Lodge, for example, issuing of licences, should not be brought to my attention and should be directed straight to the Government Leader's office. If there is uncertainty regarding the application of this direction, the issue should be addressed to the Government Leader for a ruling.

"If you require further clarification of any of the points raised in this correspondence, or in other information related to my position as Minister, in the interest of conflict of interest, please contact me."

Mr. Chairman, I read that into the record because my wife is the owner of Brabant Lodge and, as I said, this department has some licensing authority over that particular establishment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, if I may now make my opening remarks.

Go ahead.

Minister's Opening Remarks

Mr. Chairman, the Department of Economic Development and Tourism is presenting for the approval of this committee, a 1992-93 capital budget of approximately $11.5 million.

The majority of these initiatives contained in this budget, totalling some eight million dollars, are for investments through the Northwest Territories Development Corporation. Investment decisions are made by a board of directors composed of business people from across the Territories.

Mr. Chairman, the primary objectives of the Northwest Territories Development Corporation are: increase employment and income opportunities for residents of the Northwest Territories, primarily in small communities; to promote economic diversification and stability in the business sector; and, to stimulate the growth of business activity.

Mr. Chairman, the remainder of the capital expenditures proposed in this budget are for tourism initiatives such as parks and visitor centres. Over the last few years, the department has consulted with residents of the Northwest Territories, private sector operators and visitors to the Territories, with a view to developing infrastructure for tourism that reflects the cultural heritage of the people of the Northwest Territories and, at the same time, meets the needs and expectations of visitors.

Mr. Chairman, a satisfied tourist is one of the best ways to advertise tourism. If the basic infrastructure is not in place, if our facilities are not maintained, or if the level of service is not up to standard, people will leave the North with a bad impression and are not likely to recommend that others visit the Northwest Territories.

Not making the most of what the Northwest Territories has to offer in the way of a tourist destination would be selling our economic potential short. Tourism means jobs and economic activity for the people of the Northwest Territories. For the most part, it means opportunities for people to be employed in their home community and, equally important, Mr. Chairman, tourism promotes a sense of community pride by providing the opportunity for people of the Northwest Territories to share their cultural heritage with visitors from all over the world.

In conclusion, Mr. Chairman, this 1992-93 capital budget reflects a commitment by this department to work with the people of the Northwest Territories to increase employment and income opportunities for Northerners, through the development of tourism infrastructure, and through direct and joint venture investment in NWT businesses. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Would the chairman of the finance committee like to make any opening remarks? Mr. Todd.

Comments From Standing Committee On Finance

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When the committee reviewed the Department of Economic Development's budget the most obvious example to the committee was the government's decision that capital estimates tend to be driven, or not driven, by cost-benefit analysis. By that, we mean, "We are going to build a park here. We think there are going to be some jobs. We are going to do this here and we think there is going to be some economic activity."

The committee was concerned that in these times of fiscal restraint, and that it is important to understand that, if we really have the luxuries of some of these expenditures; whether they are visitors' centres, heritage sites, Thule areas, given that there are items of, perhaps, more priority; feeding people and clothing people and housing people.

We felt at the time, I repeat, because of the limitations in these difficult times that a number of these programs -- the department certainly seems to be accelerating, particularly in the visitors' centres -- a number of these programs may, in fact, be what we define in difficult financial times as luxuries.

With respect to the NWT Development Corporation, the previous standing committee on finance was promised a presentation on policies and procedures which we understand was never presented. We are still not sure, to date, that these policies and procedures are in place, and we do not know how the corporation spent $11.8 million when only ten million dollars was appropriated last year. Although, the Minister did indicate there was a $1.8 million carry-over. Now we are being asked to appropriate eight million dollars for the corporation and we feel it is essential that we get a detailed copy of their management systems and controls. We did not have it at the time we reviewed the budget, Mr. Pollard, as you well know, and it certainly was not in place the previous year, as you well know, because you alluded to it as chairman of the standing committee on finance, and that is the point that we are trying to make here. You cannot go spending $20 million worth of money unless we know who is spending it, why we are spending it, and what is the net effect of spending it.

With respect to Economic Development's budget, we really do not have too much difficulty with it. We feel that cabinet should re-examine the priorities from a cost-benefit basis in light of our fundamental needs. In other words, it is no different with this department as we have said with others. If we are going to have a long-term economic problem we have to determine if building visitors' centres, building parks, et cetera, takes priority over building houses, feeding people, and clothing people. It may seem a little idealistic but we have to take a look at the fundamental needs of Northerners.

We also feel that the NWT Development Corporation should provide us with policies and procedures to the committee that will ensure value for its capital investment. There was also a fair amount of concern by some Members of the standing committee on finance, that this development corporation may end up competing, if you want, in the broadest terms, with other interests out there. In particular, with the significant investment of Mr. Patterson's sawmill in Hay River. The point the committee wanted to make, in simple terms, was if you cannot measure it, you cannot manage it. They have to find a way to ensure that the money spent is bringing some net effect to the Northwest Territories. That is it. Thank you.