Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Dempster Highway is a territorial highway now. It is under our responsibility.

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Now that I know what the status is, I want to make a couple of comments. First of all, the kind of granular material that is being used for reconstruction on that particular highway, particularly in the mountainous area where, I do not believe, the material that the department is accepting is good material. In fact, what we have noted, even after the reconstruction last summer, is that the material breaks up almost into shale, and breaks up into a point where it is all mud. I am not certain about the quality of material that you are paying for. I would ask the Minister if he could speak to those people who are working in the community, on the highway, that I believe would have better knowledge of the material that you are using.

The other point that I wanted to make is, I was kind of curious as to why we had transferred to us the responsibility of that highway before it was completely constructed to a quality of other highways. Now we are assuming basic responsibility for what I consider to be an incomplete highway, in terms of its quality and in terms of the amount of work that has to be done just reconstructing that highway.

Another point I wanted to raise, Mr. Chairman, is that I would really like, at some time, to get an indication by government really what they intend to do with Arctic Red River. They keep saying that it is on the highway, and the fact is that it is not on the highway. It is connected to the highway, but it is not on the highway. There is no year-round connection to that community. There have been some discussions about a bridge connection, but there has been no indication to the community what the status of that proposal is.

Services For Old Communities Versus New Communities

There is no proposal for an airport, and it is interesting to note -- I do not want to be critical of the situation of Mr. Zoe or his constituency, but we are going to build a new airport in Snare Lake when that community was not in existence 10 years ago. It really came out of an outpost camp. I am kind of curious as to how and why those kinds of decisions are made. What is the process for long-time communities to get at least the same kind of service and same kind of support for the services that they are providing to a community like Snare Lake or Colville Lake? I just want to know what the criteria are that this government uses. I do not believe that it is clear to the people, and it is certainly not clear to me what the criteria are. Maybe it has to do with political association. I think it is wrong, the way we determine long-term policies.

The other point that I wanted to raise is that one aspect of the long-term strategy that was not noted was this idea of the connection between the Dempster and Aklavik. I have to say, again, to our government that there are other aspects to connections with the gravel sources that you have to consider. We are paying on a yearly basis, and I note, interestingly, in the needs assessment that between now and the year 2000 we are going to spend over three million dollars for annual gravel hauls. Maybe that money would be better spent on long-term access, on a yearly basis rather than a daily basis, rather than on a short-term basis. I say that because we should be looking at how we might be able to spend our money wisely and save this government in the long term, and the communities in the long term.

The one other point that I wanted to raise is, again, going back to Arctic Red River, I am not certain the absolute solution -- and one of the proposals that had been made was the idea of purchasing another ferry to run between the Dempster and the community -- but I am not sure if that is the best way of spending money. Your intentions are to have two ferries in that particular location, and it has never been a matter that has really been dealt with, with the community.

The other point is that the services that are being offered by our government are being delivered out of Fort McPherson. Our health services, our police services, our economic development officers, our social workers, our renewable resource officers, all those services right now are being delivered out of Fort McPherson. And when you do not have access on a year-round basis, then how do those services get delivered to those people? That is generally what I wanted to raise. How you deal with them is a matter of planning, but it is a matter of planning internally in government, and not only with this particular department. I wanted to raise those points.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We agree with the Member that the material we used on the Dempster Highway is a poor granular material. We are using the best that we have available to us for surfacing the Dempster Highway. We are looking for other granular material that would be better material to do that, and we are looking at Inuvik and other sources. We have a plan in place to reconstruct the Dempster Highway starting in 1995. We are still looking at the feasibility of the bridge at Arctic Red River, and along with that it is in our transportation strategy to look at the airport as well as the feasibility of a bridge into Arctic Red River.

For the Dempster Highway to include Aklavik, our information up to this point is that the cost is very high compared to the benefits, and also Aklavik has a barge service, as the Member stated, and also a winter road during that season. I agree with the Member that our long-term goal at some point in the future is, when we are able, to construct a year-round road to Aklavik. We would prefer that, but at this point in time because of the financial realities that exist throughout our government and the resources that are available to our department, the best we can do at this point is a barge and winter road. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Nerysoo.

Mr. Chairman, if I might indicate that there were a couple of other factors that were of significant concern to the communities on the Dempster. One was the matter of safety, the quality of the highway, which probably everyone including your department is dealing with at this particular time. I just wanted to raise the point that people are concerned about the safety conditions of those highways.

The other thing is that we have an opportunity, in particular on the Dempster -- not to diminish the importance of the highway system in the southern Northwest Territories -- but we have a great opportunity to take advantage of the economic opportunities that particular highway offers. One just has to become aware of the value of the tourist industry in the Yukon, and you will note that some of the reasons are the significant developments that have occurred in the highway system. We are not quite as fortunate in the Northwest Territories at this particular time, but I think with each improvement they made to the highway system, it seems they are drawing more and more people back into the Yukon.

In that context, I am hoping the department will at least liaise with other departments that are involved in this area, review the transportation strategy, and review it in the context of some of the immediate payouts to the communities, because it seems that sometimes we are not acknowledging that there could be some immediate payouts to improvements in areas where it is necessary.

I wanted, also, to raise the matter of the $25 million, if that is correct, with the federal government. I believe it was a point that was raised by Mr. Todd earlier. Could the Minister keep the Members informed as to the status of those discussions, and whether or not the federal government is prepared to somehow fund on an emergency basis some of the transportation requirements in the Northwest Territories?

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Safety is our concern as well. We are spending money to maintain the highway and also to improve the safety on the Dempster Highway. I agree with the Member that safety should be the most important area that we could be working on, and we are doing this. We agree, also, that there is a significant tourism potential if we improve the Dempster Highway, and this is one of the factors that we will consider in planning for improvements, and we will continue to work with the Department of Economic Development and Tourism on this issue.

With respect to the negotiations with the federal government, once we commence the negotiations, we will keep the House informed, as well as the Members, by letter. If we have any movement in this particular area, we will let the Members know what is happening. Thank you.

Marine Services

Buildings And Works, Headquarters, Total Capital, Agreed

Thank you. General comments. Does this committee wish to go page by page? Thank you. We are on page 11-9, Department of Transportation, detail of capital. Marine services, buildings and works, headquarters, total region, $600,000. Agreed.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Mr. Gargan.

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, just with regard to marine operations, last year I thought there were plans by the department to put a ferry at Camsell Bend, and the ferry from the Liard Highway would be put at Camsell Bend. The ferry from Providence was going to be put in Fort Liard. Is there a chance to build a new ferry?

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we are constructing a ferry that is to go into the Liard crossing, and the Liard crossing's Johnny Berens would be moved to Camsell Bend. Thank you.

Buildings And Works, Fort Smith, Total Capital, Agreed

Fort Smith, total region, $500,000. Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Buildings And Works, Total Capital, Agreed

Total buildings and works, $1,100,000. Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Equipment Acquisition, Headquarters, Total Capital, Agreed

Equipment acquisition, headquarters, total region, $25,000. Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Equipment Acquisition, Total Capital, Agreed

Total equipment acquisition, $25,000. Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Marine Services, Total Capital, Agreed

Total activity, $1,125,000. Agreed?