This is page numbers 889 - 914 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was public.

Topics

Members Present

Hon. Titus Allooloo, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Arngna'naaq, Hon. James Arvaluk, Hon. Michael Ballantyne, Mr. Bernhardt, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Mr. Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Ms. Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Mr. Nerysoo, Mr. Ningark, Hon. Dennis Patterson, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Mr. Todd, Hon. Tony Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 889

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Good afternoon. Orders of the day, item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Member's Statement Regarding The Late Bishop Paul Piche
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 889

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, welcome back. Mr. Speaker, on behalf of my constituents today, I rise to pay tribute to the late Bishop Piche, who would have been 83 years old today. Bishop Paul Piche died on Friday, September 11, in Edmonton. Bishop Paul Piche was born on September 14, 1909 in Gravelbourg, Saskatchewan. He attended school in Gravelbourg College in Saskatchewan and later graduated from the University of Ottawa, taking philosophy and majoring in anthropology.

Bishop Paul Piche was ordained a Priest in December 31, 1934 and he was appointed in March 1959 as Bishop. He was consecrated as a Bishop on June 11, 1959. Initially, he was installed as a Vicar Apostolic of MacKenzie on June 21, 1959 and he replaced Bishop Trocellier who passed away November, 1958.

The Bishop of MacKenzie Diocese was installed in June, 1967 at the Cathedral of Fort Smith. In June of 1984, many of us in Fort Smith, as well as myself, were in attendance, honouring Bishop Piche in a jubilee celebration for his 25 years of service.

In 1986, Bishop Paul Piche resigned as Bishop, being replaced by Father Croteau, who is now our Bishop. Bishop Paul Piche held the title after he retired, of Bishop Emeritus, which means, "full of merits" in Latin.

I know that Bishop Paul Piche held this title with great respect. Bishop Paul Piche served many of my constituents, along with many people in the MacKenzie Diocese, with a full and very challenging job.

We will deeply miss Bishop Paul Piche and he leaves to mourn many of his relatives, particularly a niece with the Grey Nuns, Sister Denise Piche. When he retired, he retired with the Oblates at the Placid Place in Edmonton. I had recently seen Bishop Piche.

Member's Statement Regarding The Late Bishop Paul Piche
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mrs. Marie-Jewell your allotted time has expired.

Member's Statement Regarding The Late Bishop Paul Piche
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to seek unanimous consent to continue.

Member's Statement Regarding The Late Bishop Paul Piche
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mrs. Marie-Jewell, the honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays, please proceed Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Member's Statement Regarding The Late Bishop Paul Piche
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 889

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and thank you honourable colleagues. I had recently seen Bishop Paul Piche on August 26, when he was in Fort Smith, at the opening of the personal care unit. At the time his smile as always, will be remembered, and his laughs with the people will always be remembered. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Member's Statement Regarding The Late Bishop Paul Piche
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Koe.

Comments Made By The Hon. S. Kakfwi To The Gwich'in Assembly
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a few comments about some statements made by a Minister of this Assembly.

The honourable Stephen Kakfwi, Minister responsible for Aboriginal Rights and Constitutional Development, made a presentation to the Gwich'in Assembly in Fort McPherson in late August. In his presentation, he talked about the role of civil servants in implementing community transfer initiatives.

The Minister also expressed opinions on the role of M.L.A.s in meeting this government's initiatives. For instance, the Minister claims that self-government talks have slowed considerably since the community transfer initiatives were announced last fall. I also understand that the Minister stated that part of the delay is caused by M.L.A.s, who passed a motion in this Assembly last fall, saying they want to be involved in the decision making.

I am very disappointed and cannot even envision why a Minister of this government would think that I, as an ordinary M.L.A., and those who sit on this side of the House, would even consider interfering or meddling in the operations and management of this government. How naive can one be?

My colleagues, and I, were elected to do exactly that, make recommendations and decisions on the running of this government on behalf of the citizens of the Northwest Territories. So, I for one, Mr. Speaker, intend to fulfill my responsibilities as a M.L.A. and hopefully, when given opportunities, become involved in the decision making.

Mahsi Cho.

---Applause

Comments Made By The Hon. S. Kakfwi To The Gwich'in Assembly
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Gargan.

Aboriginal Justice Reform Initiative
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In August of 1991 the federal government announced that it had earmarked $26.4 million, over the next five years, for aboriginal justice reform.

Later today, I will table a discussion paper prepared by the Honourable Kim Campbell, federal Minister of Justice, which outlines this initiative in detail. While it is an impressive sounding project, Mr. Speaker, I must express some serious concerns.

First, the initiative promises significant consultation on aboriginal justice issues between the federal government, native organizations, and provincial and territorial governments. However, the project has been underway for over a year, Mr. Speaker, and I have yet to hear about any consultation, involving communities at this grass roots level. Has federal and territorial consultations begun? Are they involving only the so called experts in our senior bureaucracy? I will be calling on our Minister of Justice to clarify this.

I have a further concern about this federal initiative as well. This relates to the appointment of Don Avison, as the Director of the Council for Aboriginal Justice Administration. Honourable Members will recall that he was the Crown Prosecutor who ordered the arrest and detention of Kitty Nowdluk Reynolds.

Ms. Nowdluk was a victim of rape who was shamefully jailed and transported across Canada in handcuffs, something that would never have happened to a white woman. When questioned in the House of Commons, the federal Minister indicated that she felt that Mr. Avison was uniquely qualified to take the lead role in this aboriginal justice initiative. Based on his handling of the Kitty Nowdluk affair, I must disagree with this appointment. I am interested in learning more about how this decision was made.

I will have more to say on this topic at a later time, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Aboriginal Justice Reform Initiative
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Ms. Mike.

The Allocation Of The Finance And E.d. & T. Portfolios To One Member
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to comment on a problem, which I believe exists, with respect to the way the Government Leader has allocated portfolio assignments. I wish to suggest to her that the same Ministers should not hold responsibilities for the Department of Economic and Development and Tourism, and Finance. It is my opinion that the mandate priorities of these departments conflict with each other. I also recognize that the time commitments required to carry out ministerial responsibilities for these two busy and important departments would overwhelm almost any single Minister.

I would draw your attention, Mr. Speaker, to the fact that during the 11th Assembly, the Minister of Finance had responsibility for a much smaller portfolio of Justice, and the Highway Transport Board, as well as House Leader duties. At the end of the 10th Assembly, I believe the Honourable Tom Butters was allowed to concentrate exclusively on the Finance portfolio. I believe that the assignment of these two conflicting and overwhelming portfolios to our current Minister of Finance is not the best distribution of responsibility. I would note that neither this current report, nor this "Strength At Two Levels" review recommend that these responsibilities be combined. Perhaps, that is because the working groups in each case recognize the inherent conflict in mandate and time pressures involved in these two portfolios. Later today, I will make my reply to the budget address, and will comment further on the reasons why these assignments should be reconsidered.

In closing, I wish to assure the House that I am not expressing a lack of confidence in the current Minister, the honourable Member for Hay River. Rather, I believe, that the reassignment of these two responsibilities will improve its efficiency, not only within Cabinet, and this House, but also in terms of services and programs which are our constituents rely on. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

The Allocation Of The Finance And E.d. & T. Portfolios To One Member
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Members' statements, Mr. Pudlat.

The Need For Upgrading The Cape Dorset Airstrip
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I stand today to express concerns of the people of Cape Dorset. My statement will be to the Government Leader, and Minister of Transportation. The people of Lake Harbour are experiencing inconvenience because of the airstrip. The airstrip has to be upgraded, capital expenditures should be forwarded at an earlier date and also because this inconveniences scheduled flights into the community, and that also, it is a hardship to the community in the winter time. The Hamlet Council has agreed that the upgrading should start very soon, and that the Minister of Transportation should work on this, and the Minister has a copy of the letter. If you require a copy of the letter, I have a copy, regarding the airstrip in Cape Dorset. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Need For Upgrading The Cape Dorset Airstrip
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Members' statements, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Suggesting No Future Sessions Be Held In September
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I cannot recall whether any of the Members from the eastern Northwest Territories have mentioned the fact, that this particular month is a very important month for Inuit. The month of September was traditionally a very busy month for hunters. It is a time when the weather is cool, not only at night, but also during the day. It is a time for caching meat. This traditionally was a month in which the hunters would try to catch as many animals as they were able. This was a month when the meat was not going to be destroyed by bugs, or insects. This month, the weather will not always allow a hunter to do what he would like to do. He will be controlled by the conditions of the great outdoors, and yet the hunter will strive to meet his needs for meat to last the winter; a winter which could, historically, make or break a group of Inuit. Today, if you were to check on how many older Inuit were employed, who will take time off in the month, you will probably find that most, if not all, will take some time off. I recognize that this is an unusual year, and that this will not likely happen, in that we will meet in the month of September, but I find that I have not been able to be as involved as I should be. My heart has been back home caching meat. I would be remiss in doing my duty if I did not participate in this very important process of this Legislative Assembly. I have found, Mr. Speaker, that timetables of aboriginal peoples and that of southern timetables do not match. They never have, and they probably never will. This month, there will be all kinds of Inuit hunters who will spend as much of their time as possible on the land. As would be the case for some of the Members in this Chamber today, I would like to suggest on behalf of the aboriginal Members, that this Assembly avoid sitting during the month of September next year, and other years to follow. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Suggesting No Future Sessions Be Held In September
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Members' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

Member's Statement Regarding The Late Bishop Paul Piche
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I wanted to make a statement as an M.L.A. about Bishop Piche, who passed away just recently. As many people in the western Arctic know, he was the Bishop that set up the institution remembered as Grandin College. He believed that in all our communities up and down the western Arctic between the Beaufort, the Delta, and all our communities down the valley, there were people who could and would form a strong cadre of potential future workers and leaders from the communities. He set up Grandin College to seek out those of us who were interested, those of us who were supported and encouraged by our families, to voluntarily go to this institution. Myself, I spent six years from the age of 12 until the age of 18 at Grandin College. This was 10 months of the year, leaving home at the end of August, and returning at the end of June the following year. I think the majority of us who attended this institution from the early 1960s until the early 1970s all remember it with many fond memories, with very good feelings about the staff, the supervision, the role that the Bishop personally played in the education and development of us as young people, and who will be requesting of the M.L.A.s at the appropriate time to ....

Member's Statement Regarding The Late Bishop Paul Piche
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi, your allotted time has expired.

Member's Statement Regarding The Late Bishop Paul Piche
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

I request unanimous consent to continue.

Member's Statement Regarding The Late Bishop Paul Piche
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is requesting unanimous consent. Are there any nays? Please proceed, Mr. Kakfwi.

Member's Statement Regarding The Late Bishop Paul Piche
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you. I will be requesting the blessing of our fellow M.L.A.s to take a little time out on Thursday afternoon, so that some of us can attend the funeral in Fort Smith, Mahsi.

---Applause

Member's Statement Regarding The Late Bishop Paul Piche
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Member's Statement Regarding His Absence From The House Last Week
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe in accountability, and already did tell caucus that I would miss the opening of this session, of this Assembly.

I did so, Mr. Speaker, because some months ago, I had planned to visit my old parents in Wales, and did not believe when I bought my tickets, that this Assembly would agree to meet in the month of September. So I, in fact, had planned to be away during the month of September and changed my tickets several times, because it seems that the character of this particular Assembly is one which is completely different to previous ones. We seem to meet more often, and there seems to be a much busier schedule.

However, Mr. Speaker, having now made that a public fact, that I did miss the opening, for both the information of my constituents, and all other colleagues who did not know where I was when we opened on Wednesday. I would like to say, Mr. Speaker, that in the time that I was out of the country, I thought quite a bit about this place I have now called my home for more than 30 years. I found that the places I visited were not really happy places. The cost of living is very, very high, the people are not in particularly good spirits, the weather, as always, was awful and the cheapest meal I had during the last month was when I arrived in Edmonton last week, and had a meal at the Nisku Inn. It was the cheapest meal I, in fact, had for the month that I was away from Yellowknife. I am very, very happy to be back again amongst friends. Thank you.

---Applause

Member's Statement Regarding His Absence From The House Last Week
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford.

Member's Statement Regarding The Late Bishop Paul Piche
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to take this occasion to express my condolences on the passing of Bishop Piche. I, for many years, have had a good friendship with Bishop Piche, while I was at Fort Smith, and later on, after I moved here to Yellowknife. Quite a number of my constituents are from the Fort Smith area, and on a couple of occasions, have asked that I express their sadness at his passing.

A couple of points on Bishop Piche. He certainly was a powerful man in his own right, he advanced the cause of young northern people greatly in his regime as Bishop and as Pastor. One thing that should not go unnoticed, is the fact that he is the first Canadian to hold the position of Bishop of the Mackenzie Delta.

His passing, Mr. Speaker, will be sad, but we of Christian faith, celebrate his transition from this place to his eternal reward. We extend our condolences to his family and many friends, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement Regarding The Late Bishop Paul Piche
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Morin.

Return To Question O725-12(2): Increase In Contracts Going To Northern Companies
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. Todd on September 9, 1992, an increase in contracts going to northern companies.

The government has seen an increase in the percent of its contracts going to northern firms, since the new Business Incentive Policy was implemented. The following information is provided for Public Works, Government Services and the N.W.T. Housing Corporation.

For the Department of Public Works in the 1991-92 fiscal year, 88 percent of all construction contracts were awarded to northern companies. During the first three months of the 1992-93 fiscal year, this increased to 94 percent, an increase of six percent.

For the Department of Government Services, a comparison was done for the months of July and August from 1991 to 1992. In July and August of 1991, 47 percent of all goods purchased were bought from northern firms. During the same two months this year, this increased to 61 percent, that is an increase of 14 percent. Northern purchases account for 52 percent of the dollar value spent in 1991-92. This increased to 62 percent during the first three months of the 1992-93 fiscal year. That is an increase of 10 percent.

For the N.W.T. Housing Corporation, it is not possible to compare this year to last year. This is because the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, the major funding partner, did not accept the Business Incentive Policy last year. On June 3, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation agreed to application of B.I.P. Unfortunately, by then, the majority of the Corporation's supply and construction contracts had already been awarded. To the end of August this year, supply tenders amounting to $12.7 million, or 74 percent of the total dollars, have been awarded to northern companies. Southern companies were awarded $4.6 million or 26 percent of the total. The Housing Corporation anticipates a significant increase in northern involvement in the 1993-94 contracting season, with the C.M.H.C. now agreeing to the application of the B.I.P. Thank you.

Return To Question O725-12(2): Increase In Contracts Going To Northern Companies
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Todd.

Question O754-12(2): Implementation Of Report Of The Traditional Knowledge Working Group
Item 5: Oral Questions

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs. In June, my honourable colleagues from Deh Cho and Inuvik raised the issue of the report of the traditional knowledge working group. On June 24, the Honourable Titus Allooloo told this House, that he had directed the Department of Culture and Communications to prepare a paper for Cabinet review.

Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister is, will the new Minister advise the House whether that Cabinet has yet developed a strategy for implementing the Report of the Traditional Knowledge Working Group?

Question O754-12(2): Implementation Of Report Of The Traditional Knowledge Working Group
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Arvaluk.

Return To Question O754-12(2): Implementation Of Report Of The Traditional Knowledge Working Group
Question O754-12(2): Implementation Of Report Of The Traditional Knowledge Working Group
Item 5: Oral Questions

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Speaker, because of the consolidation, and the other changes that have taken place, we have to consider all the matters that have been traditionally separate from each other, we are still discussing how we are going to handle that. In that case, not yet, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question O754-12(2): Implementation Of Report Of The Traditional Knowledge Working Group
Question O754-12(2): Implementation Of Report Of The Traditional Knowledge Working Group
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Todd.

Supplementary To Question O754-12(2): Implementation Of Report Of The Traditional Knowledge Working Group
Question O754-12(2): Implementation Of Report Of The Traditional Knowledge Working Group
Item 5: Oral Questions

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Will the Minister tell me, if any work has been done with respect to the direction given by this group, by the questions asked by my colleagues from Inuvik and Deh Cho, with respect to a report from the traditional knowledge working group? You cannot put everything on hold, because we are amalgamating, we still have to go on.

Supplementary To Question O754-12(2): Implementation Of Report Of The Traditional Knowledge Working Group
Question O754-12(2): Implementation Of Report Of The Traditional Knowledge Working Group
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Arvaluk.

Further Return To Question O754-12(2): Implementation Of Report Of The Traditional Knowledge Working Group
Question O754-12(2): Implementation Of Report Of The Traditional Knowledge Working Group
Item 5: Oral Questions

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, there is a prepared document and has the Cabinet dealt with that yet? I said, no. There is a prepared document, and I will be ready to take that.

Further Return To Question O754-12(2): Implementation Of Report Of The Traditional Knowledge Working Group
Question O754-12(2): Implementation Of Report Of The Traditional Knowledge Working Group
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Justice. In my earlier Member's statement, I referred to the federal government initiative on aboriginal people and justice administration. One of the goals of the initiative, is to promote and support effective consultation with aboriginal organizations, as well as Metis, and to provincial and territorial governments.

Can the Minister of Justice advise us on how many aboriginal justice consultation processes have been engaged by this government and the Government of Canada, since this federal initiative was announced in August of last year?

Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, on the issue of community justice initiatives, the Department of Justice has continued to encourage communities to take on some rather substantial discussions with us, toward taking over more responsibility for the administration of justice. To that extent we have been involved in three community meetings so far, one is with Fort McPherson, we have had meetings with Fort Good Hope and Fort Simpson. There is a request now to have a meeting initiated with the community of Fort Franklin. As well, communities like Coral Harbour, Whale Cove, Coppermine and Rae Edzo, have expressed an interest in initiating discussions on the way in which they may try to take some role, or involvement, and participate in the administration of justice, which has historically been assumed to be the total realm of the visiting court circuits. We have taken a positive turn in this initiative. We have not gone much beyond this point, because the philosophy, nationally and with the Department of Justice, is that this all has to be community driven and it would be conducted in a way, and in a nature, in which the communities feel much more ownership to responsibility.

In regard to a relationship with the federal justice people, it has been understood for some time now, that we will take a cooperative, flexible approach in dealing with communities, and as my initial reading is that the approach that the federal officials are taking are in line with the approach that we have taken on this initiative. Thank you.

Return To Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the federal initiative promised to include consultation with aboriginal organizations. Can the Minister indicate whether the department has been asked to assist the federal Minister of Justice, or the federal Minister of Indian Affairs, to coordinate or participate in consultation activities with aboriginal organizations?

Supplementary To Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I am not aware, nor do I believe, that initiative has been undertaken at this time. Thank you.

Further Return To Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My supplementary to the Minister is with regard to recognizing that the aboriginal people and justice administration initiative is of significant importance to the people to the Northwest Territories, and recognizing that federal funds were earmarked for the project over a year ago. Will the Minister of Justice contact his federal counterparts, and have their Director General initiate the process of consulting with Territorial government, native organizations and aboriginal communities without further delay?

Supplementary To Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, yes.

Further Return To Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The last supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my statement, I indicated that there was $26.4 million over the next five years for aboriginal justice reform. I would like to ask the Minister of Justice, of the $26.4 million, how much is earmarked for the Northwest Territories?

Supplementary To Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I take the question as notice. Thank you.

Further Return To Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Question O755-12(2): Aboriginal Justice Initiative Consultation
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Question has been taken as notice. Oral questions. Mr. Bernhardt.

Question O756-12(2): Better Access To Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Ernie Bernhardt Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question will be for the Minister of Education. Recently, I have done some research into the number of northern students graduating from high schools across the Northwest Territories. I have discovered that students from some communities have been far less successful in achieving graduation, than those from other communities. For instance, I was dismayed to learn that over the past five years, only seven students from Cambridge Bay have graduated and there have been only two students from Coppermine in the past five years.

In contrast, there have been 13 graduates from Tuktoyaktuk, and the same number from Fort Simpson. I know that there are many bright and hard working youngsters in both Coppermine and Cambridge Bay. I have wondered whether the difference in graduation rates exist because they are receiving less than adequate preparation for high school in these communities? My question is, can the Minister assure this House that he does not support the concept of double standards where students in some communities receive better access to an elementary and junior high education than others?

Question O756-12(2): Better Access To Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Arvaluk.

Return To Question O756-12(2): Better Access To Education
Question O756-12(2): Better Access To Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question O756-12(2): Better Access To Education
Question O756-12(2): Better Access To Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Bernhardt.

Supplementary To Question O756-12(2): Better Access To Education
Question O756-12(2): Better Access To Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Ernie Bernhardt Kitikmeot

Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister request that his department undertake a review of the quality of academic preparations provided to the post-secondary students in Coppermine and Cambridge Bay to ensure that they are receiving the best possible preparation for high school? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question O756-12(2): Better Access To Education
Question O756-12(2): Better Access To Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Arvaluk.

Further Return To Question O756-12(2): Better Access To Education
Question O756-12(2): Better Access To Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 893

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Speaker, that is already underway, and we are preparing a number of guidelines as to how we can best serve the whole territory. That is also part of the proposed high school policy, which we will be working on, so that education across the N.W.T. is of the same standard, and also, that it is a standard that will be set for the southern universities once they graduate from high school. Thank you.

Further Return To Question O756-12(2): Better Access To Education
Question O756-12(2): Better Access To Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 893

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Question O757-12(2): Individual Whose Complaint Led To The Board Of Inquiry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 893

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to pose a question to the Minister of Health. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health has initiated a board of inquiry on September 3, referring a report to Dr. Covert. Under the Act of the board, under the Medical Professions Act regarding the board of inquiry, it indicates that a board of inquiry shall be established once a complaint has been received. Pursuant to section 24, "any person may lodge with the president, a written complaint against a medical practitioner." I would like to ask the Minister of Health, who was the complainant?

Question O757-12(2): Individual Whose Complaint Led To The Board Of Inquiry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 893

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Patterson.

Return To Question O757-12(2): Individual Whose Complaint Led To The Board Of Inquiry
Question O757-12(2): Individual Whose Complaint Led To The Board Of Inquiry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 893

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, I believe that the Medical Profession Act also allows the Minister to appoint a board of inquiry. I think it is pursuant to section 21, "investigate any matter referred the board of inquiry by the Minister", so Mr. Speaker, it is not only in the case of a complaint that a board of inquiry can be established. In this case, Mr. Speaker, to anticipate the Member's next question, there was not a complaint. However, as I have stated in the House, what did happen which caused me to establish a board of inquiry, was that there was a review done at the instance of the then Board of Management of the Fort Smith Health Centre by the Saskatchewan College of Physicians and Surgeons. That independent body reviewed medical practice at the Fort Smith Health Centre, and other matters, and prepared a report which caused me as Minister of Health, responsible for safeguarding the public interest, to have concerns about medical practice at the Fort Smith Health Centre. It is that

report, and the matters raised in the report, about raising questions about medical practice at the Fort Smith Health Centre, which have caused me to establish the board of inquiry, not the specific complaint of a patient, as is contemplated elsewhere in the Act. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question O757-12(2): Individual Whose Complaint Led To The Board Of Inquiry
Question O757-12(2): Individual Whose Complaint Led To The Board Of Inquiry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 894

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

If I could take this opportunity to welcome on behalf of our Assembly the Honourable Jean Chretien, Leader of the Official Opposition, Madame Chretien, and Ethel Blondin, Member of Parliament for the Western Arctic.

---Applause

Oral questions, supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question O757-12(2): Individual Whose Complaint Led To The Board Of Inquiry
Question O757-12(2): Individual Whose Complaint Led To The Board Of Inquiry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 894

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Health in his response, is he indicating to this House that he was the complainant for the purpose of setting up the board of inquiry? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question O757-12(2): Individual Whose Complaint Led To The Board Of Inquiry
Question O757-12(2): Individual Whose Complaint Led To The Board Of Inquiry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 894

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Patterson.

Further Return To Question O757-12(2): Individual Whose Complaint Led To The Board Of Inquiry
Question O757-12(2): Individual Whose Complaint Led To The Board Of Inquiry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 894

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

No, Mr. Speaker, I would not characterize it as that. I would say that I have the authority as Minister, to refer a matter to the board of inquiry. The matter referred to the board of inquiry is the report of the Saskatchewan College of Physicians and Surgeons which raised serious questions about medical practice at the Fort Smith Health Centre. I was not a complainant. I was, rather, acting to refer a matter, namely a report about medical practice at the Fort Smith Health Centre to the board of inquiry, as laid out in the Medical Professions Act. Thank you.

Further Return To Question O757-12(2): Individual Whose Complaint Led To The Board Of Inquiry
Question O757-12(2): Individual Whose Complaint Led To The Board Of Inquiry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 894

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions, Mr. Gargan.

Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 894

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, during last week when I got into Yellowknife for session, I noticed the sign right across from us, the Stuart M. Hodgson Building, had syllabics and Inuktitut, and the other different aboriginal languages. This is the first sign I have seen, that included, I think, all the aboriginal languages. Mr. Speaker, in August or February 28,1986, the report of the Task Force on Aboriginal Languages made its recommendation, which was approved. This is five years later, and some of the things that should have happened, like having bilingual street signs, and having services provided to include community health representatives or C.H.R.s, who have to be bilingual, English and aboriginal. It also says that it provides for interpreters when a person is arrested. An aboriginal person who is arrested, and does not speak the English language, should have an interpreter. I have not seen it happen yet, but I would like to ask the Minister of Culture and Communications, whether or not, the recommendations that were given five years ago, on February 28, have been implemented? Quite frankly, Mr. Speaker, I do not think it has been. Where is there evidence of it?

Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 894

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister of Culture and Employment Programs, Mr. Arvaluk.

Return To Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 894

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Speaker, I understand that Culture and Communication has a responsibility to translate the key months, and everything else, however, the construction of these sign are the responsibility of the G.N.W.T. Thank you.

Return To Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 894

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The Government Leader would like to respond on behalf of the government.

Further Return To Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 894

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Yes, Mr. Speaker. As many of the Members of this Legislative Assembly realize, since the Official Languages Act was passed, the government has proceeded to do a number of things within that commitment we made at that time. What we have done now, in order to consolidate, to try and find out where we are, and at what stage we are going to take the official languages, as well as the traditional knowledge, we have reorganized the responsibility under the Government Leader's Office, because it is an overseeing of languages to all departments. The Department of Public Works would be the client department that would be putting up signs which is directed or required from different departments. As well, we formed the Working Group on Official Languages and Traditional Knowledge in the Government Leader's office, mainly to reassess what we have done to this date, and where we are going from here. So, this will put out a major focal point on answering many of the questions that a Member would have on where we are, and where we are going. Thank you.

Further Return To Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 894

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 894

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Government Leader inform this House the progress of this report, the report of the Task Force on Aboriginal Languages? It does give a timetable and the implementation for the next ten years. It has been five years, over five years now, and within that five year time frame there are a number of initiatives that should have been done. I would like to ask the Government Leader if she could inform this House on the progress of the implementation of the recommendations?

Supplementary To Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 894

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 894

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I have two pages of the actions that have been taken by the department, spread across the government, and where we have been. Exactly where they fit into the timetable I am not quite clear, but I realize that there are some areas of the Official Languages Report that we have not met those timetables. Rather than going over these two sheets of paper and listing them, I would be pleased to present them to the honourable Member.

Further Return To Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 894

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, the implementation of this report was recommended by this Assembly. It was not my report, I am not responsible for it, I was just part of the process. I would like to ask the Minister whether or not she would provide those two sheets to all the Members? I believe that a lot of the Members were here when the implementation process began.

Supplementary To Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I will have that circulated. Thank you.

Further Return To Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Question O758-12(2): Implementation Of Recommendations Of Task Force On Aboriginal Languages Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Ms. Mike.

Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w. Line Sites
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Qujannamiik. My question will be for the Minister of Renewable Resources. He will know that the environmental restoration of D.E.W. Line sites has been controversial for our government going back as far as the 10th Assembly, when our current Government Leader held the Renewable Resources portfolio.

In fact, it was back in March 15, 1985 that this Minister stressed the fact, that it was because of her prompting that the federal agencies were starting to take the issue of D.E.W. Line clean up requirements seriously.

I understand that the federal Department of National Defence targeted five abandoned D.E.W. Line sites which were to be assessed for cleanup requirements. These initial assessments were to be carried out during the summer of 1992. Can the Minister assure the House that he has continued to insist on the same level of Government of Northwest Territories input into D.E.W. Line clean up decisions, as was established by the Honourable Nellie Cournoyea over seven years ago?

Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w. Line Sites
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo.

Return To Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w. Line Sites
Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w. Line Sites
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Welcome back, Mr. Speaker. First of all I would like to say that I took the newly appointed Minister of the Environment, Jean Charest, to Iqaluit about two years ago, to introduce him to one of the sites that were contaminated by the military. Also, this summer he extensively visited sites throughout the Baffin and Central Arctic. I had a chance to talk to him on the need to clean up the North and these sites.

Mr. Speaker, later on this week I will be happy to give a report on what the government has done in terms of cleaning up sites, and also their plans to pursue sites that need to be cleaned up. Thank you.

Return To Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w. Line Sites
Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w. Line Sites
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Supplementary To Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w Line Sites
Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w. Line Sites
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. In that case, can the Minister explain to the House, and to the people of Baffin Island and the Keewatin, why not one of the abandoned sites targeted by D.I.A.N.D. for initial assessment was located east of King William Island?

Supplementary To Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w Line Sites
Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w. Line Sites
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo.

Further Return To Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w Line Sites
Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w. Line Sites
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Mr. Speaker, what was the question? I was not clear on the question.

Further Return To Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w Line Sites
Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w. Line Sites
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Mike, would you care to repose the question?

Supplementary To Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w Line Sites
Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w. Line Sites
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Can the Minister tell the people of Baffin and the Keewatin, regarding the D.E.W. Line sites left behind by D.I.A.N.D., when they would clean up the site east of King William Island?

Supplementary To Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w Line Sites
Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w. Line Sites
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo.

Further Return To Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w. Line Sites
Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w. Line Sites
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Mr. Speaker, I will have to take the question as notice.

Further Return To Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w. Line Sites
Question O759-12(2): Clean Up Of Abandoned D.e.w. Line Sites
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Question has been taken as notice. Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Bernhardt.

Question O760-12(2): Statistical Information Compiled By The Department Of Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

Ernie Bernhardt Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister responsible for Education. As I mentioned earlier, I have been attempting to carry out some research into graduation patterns across the Northwest Territories. The department has been able to supply a listing of the total number of graduates from communities across the Northwest Territories, and I will table that later this afternoon.

However, I was amazed when someone told me that the department is unable to provide a breakdown, as to which of these students received an advanced diploma, and which received general diplomas. I was also surprised that neither the department, nor Akaitcho Hall, were able to supply the number of students from each community who were presently attending high school here in Yellowknife.

Mr. Speaker, I feel that this is fairly important information for the school system to be keeping. My question is, can the Minister indicate whether my understanding is correct? Is their record keeping so inadequate in the Department of Education, that even the most simple statistical breakdown is not available? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question O760-12(2): Statistical Information Compiled By The Department Of Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 895

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Minister.

Return To Question O760-12(2): Statistical Information Compiled By The Department Of Education
Question O760-12(2): Statistical Information Compiled By The Department Of Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have a very thorough recording system of graduates, what they are graduating from, from what community, and from what grade, etc. These are all readily available from my department, if the Member wishes to examine them. Otherwise, I could supply those if he wants me to do so.

Return To Question O760-12(2): Statistical Information Compiled By The Department Of Education
Question O760-12(2): Statistical Information Compiled By The Department Of Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Dent.

Question O761-12(2): Summaries Of Attendance And Spending At Territorial Restaurant At Expo '92
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. As I am sure he is expecting, it is about Seville, or the shortfall there. Mr. Speaker, when our participation in Expo was announced in the spring of 1991, the projected attendance for the Canadian pavilion was just over three million visitors. Of this I understand that we expected to attract some 193,000, or six percent of the visitors to the Canadian pavilion to our restaurant for some good northern country foods.

Obviously, Mr. Speaker, something has gone very, very wrong. Either the number of customers just were not there, we could not attract them, or they are not spending any money. Would the Minister provide a summary of all information available on the levels of attendance and spending at our restaurant in Seville?

Question O761-12(2): Summaries Of Attendance And Spending At Territorial Restaurant At Expo '92
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question O761-12(2): Summaries Of Attendance And Spending At Territorial Restaurant At Expo '92
Question O761-12(2): Summaries Of Attendance And Spending At Territorial Restaurant At Expo '92
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

John Pollard Hay River

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question O761-12(2): Summaries Of Attendance And Spending At Territorial Restaurant At Expo '92
Question O761-12(2): Summaries Of Attendance And Spending At Territorial Restaurant At Expo '92
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question O761-12(2): Summaries Of Attendance And Spending At Territorial Restaurant At Expo '92
Question O761-12(2): Summaries Of Attendance And Spending At Territorial Restaurant At Expo '92
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister also provide similar information on attendance and spending levels for the retail outlets at the Canadian pavilion?

Supplementary To Question O761-12(2): Summaries Of Attendance And Spending At Territorial Restaurant At Expo '92
Question O761-12(2): Summaries Of Attendance And Spending At Territorial Restaurant At Expo '92
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question O761-12(2): Summaries Of Attendance And Spending At Territorial Restaurant At Expo '92
Question O761-12(2): Summaries Of Attendance And Spending At Territorial Restaurant At Expo '92
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

John Pollard Hay River

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question O761-12(2): Summaries Of Attendance And Spending At Territorial Restaurant At Expo '92
Question O761-12(2): Summaries Of Attendance And Spending At Territorial Restaurant At Expo '92
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

Question O762-12(2): Southern Institutions' Rejection Of Northern Students
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct this question to the Minister of Education. We have been working hard toward education in the north. In the 1990-91 school year, I do not know the exact number of people who have passed. There have been a number of students requesting to go to southern schools. Would the Minister please inform the House, why some of the students, who are requesting to go to southern schools, are not accepted?

Could he also indicate that of the students who are not approved to go to southern schools, if there are programs available for them in the north? Thank you.

Question O762-12(2): Southern Institutions' Rejection Of Northern Students
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Arvaluk.

Return To Question O762-12(2): Southern Institutions' Rejection Of Northern Students
Question O762-12(2): Southern Institutions' Rejection Of Northern Students
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

James Arvaluk Aivilik

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am well aware of the facts the Member has stated. Sometimes the students refuse, and it is because of the education program for the secondary school. We agree on the budget yearly, and according to the budget we agree on in the Legislature, is sometimes misunderstood towards the programs for the students, but when there is funding, money available, the students are most welcome.

Return To Question O762-12(2): Southern Institutions' Rejection Of Northern Students
Question O762-12(2): Southern Institutions' Rejection Of Northern Students
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Pudlat.

Supplementary To Question O762-12(2): Southern Institutions' Rejection Of Northern Students
Question O762-12(2): Southern Institutions' Rejection Of Northern Students
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Yes, Mr. Speaker, we are well aware of that when there is funding available, because of the deficit and due to lack of funding, the students requests are not being met. We will, therefore, have to work harder and help our students to work towards staying in school. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question O762-12(2): Southern Institutions' Rejection Of Northern Students
Question O762-12(2): Southern Institutions' Rejection Of Northern Students
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Arvaluk.

Further Return To Question O762-12(2): Southern Institutions' Rejection Of Northern Students
Question O762-12(2): Southern Institutions' Rejection Of Northern Students
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

James Arvaluk Aivilik

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I stood up because I was willing to answer his response. I stood up without realizing. The funding is small. The Members of the Legislative Assembly agreed upon, as we all know, and have to go by the budget that we agreed upon for the funding for the Department of Education. The budget is agreed on in the Legislature.

Further Return To Question O762-12(2): Southern Institutions' Rejection Of Northern Students
Question O762-12(2): Southern Institutions' Rejection Of Northern Students
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Ms. Mike.

Question O763-12(2): Acquisition Of Surplus D.e.w. Line Assets
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. Mr. Speaker, plans are apparently in place for the closure of certain D.E.W. Line facilities across the Northwest Territories.

On March 12, 1992 I was very glad to hear my honourable colleague from Keewatin Central, raised the matter of this government's role in the acquisition of surplus assets which may become available as a result of closures.

At that time, the Minister was able to outline his plans for the coordination of the acquisition process but was unable to provide the House with much indication as to the cost or the type of assets.

Is the Minister able to advise the House today about what progress has been made during phase one of the acquisition process, in which the inter-departmental committee was supposed to be examining the disposal of movable assets and equipment, and departments were supposed to identify if they are interested in them?

Question O763-12(2): Acquisition Of Surplus D.e.w. Line Assets
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 896

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question O763-12(2): Acquisition Of Surplus D.e.w. Line Assets
Question O763-12(2): Acquisition Of Surplus D.e.w. Line Assets
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 897

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have purchased approximately $265,000 of equipment from the federal government, the majority of that has been moved to Pelly Bay, Spence Bay and Cambridge Bay. The United States Air Force moved the equipment to Cambridge, they were going to move it to Hall Beach, we paid them some extra money, and they did move it to those other two communities.

There is still some furniture at camp five, and I think the residents of Pelly Bay are going to pick that up this winter. We have also purchased or made arrangements to move some lists of equipment to the Kitikmeot, in Pelly Bay, a towed roller, four by four pick up, tractor, dump truck, scoop loader, tractor trailer, and various other departments have picked up equipment as well. Perhaps, Mr. Speaker, it would be more advantageous if I tabled it tomorrow in the House, the list of equipment that we have already purchased. Thank you.

Return To Question O763-12(2): Acquisition Of Surplus D.e.w. Line Assets
Question O763-12(2): Acquisition Of Surplus D.e.w. Line Assets
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 897

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. I think if we could, we will take a short recess, we will stop the clock, proceed when we come back, so Members have a chance to meet with Monsieur and Madame Chretien. We will take a short break.

---Applause

---SHORT RECESS

Return To Question O763-12(2): Acquisition Of Surplus D.e.w. Line Assets
Question O763-12(2): Acquisition Of Surplus D.e.w. Line Assets
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 897

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral questions, so then 20 minutes and 15 seconds to go. Oral questions, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 897

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Health.

Mr. Speaker, quoting the unedited Hansard for Thursday, September 10, Mr. Patterson indicated in this House, and I quote, "Mr. Speaker, on July 15 of this year Dr. Uma Viswalingam requested an injunction to prevent the release of the college's report. That matter was dealt with by the court, and appealed from the lower courts decision was heard in the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories on August 10. The Appeal has been adjourned without a certain date of return, and the Supreme Court file has been sealed. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that since the matter is before the courts, and since the issue is before the courts, I must not release it."

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister since he indicated that the report should not be released in this House, why has he released it to Dr. Covert. Thank you.

Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 897

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Patterson.

Return To Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 897

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Well, Mr. Speaker, with respect to the Member, I think there is a great deal of difference between releasing it in this Legislature to the public, and releasing it to a duly appointed officer by statutes, namely the President of the Board of Inquiry under the Medical Profession Act. I think there is a great difference between the kind of public release that I was being pressed to consider in earlier questions, and the very privileged, confidential releasing of such a report to a person appointed under a statute of this Legislature, with a very clearly defined mandate jurisdiction and responsibility. So, I do not think the situations are at all comparable with the greatest of respect. Thank you.

Return To Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 897

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions, supplementary. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 897

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister indicate what other individuals, or individual, that he may have released this report to? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 897

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Patterson.

Further Return To Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report By Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 897

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, the only people that I know of who have received this report, are the former Chairman of the Board of Management of the Fort Smith Health Centre, Mr. Pete Fraser, to whom the report was submitted, since it was that board that commissioned the report: Mr. Don Ellis, the Public Administrator, who has in effect, replaced the Board in overseeing the operations at Fort Smith Health Centre; Dr. Covert, for reasons that I have just discussed, and I have seen it, Mr. Speaker, as Minister of Health, my Deputy Minister has seen the report. It has been given to Madam Cournoyea, the Premier, but otherwise, Mr. Speaker, to my knowledge, the circulation of the report has been very restrictive respecting the sensitive and very confidential nature of the matters reviewed, including information about treatment of individual patients.

Further Return To Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report By Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 897

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions, supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 897

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I would like to advise this House a quote of a letter that I got from our legal counsel for the Legislative Assembly, and I certainly hope that I am not out of order, but you would advise me accordingly if I am.

Mr. Speaker, I asked legal counsel for the Legislative Assembly to determine whether or not the court records regarding this, are available to me as a Member, to advise my constituents as to what is going on, and they indicated to me, and I would like to quote, "They confirm that the court record pertaining to Dr. Uma Viswalingam's suit against the Fort Smith Health Centre Board of Management have been sealed pursuant to the Court Order Justice Award granted August the 10, which the Minister indicated in this House. After all parties to the litigation indicated that they were in agreement with the entire file being sealed, the only portion of the file that is available to us are the Clerk's notes. However, the writer was advised they were unable to photocopy the Clerk's notes. A review of the Clerk's notes indicate that there was an application made in late July, for an injunction to prevent the Board of Management from dealing with the report. This application was denied by Justice Richard, however, leave was granted to the parties to renew their applications at a later date, and the matter was subsequently heard in the chambers on July 27, and adjourned to August 10. On August 10, the court file was sealed, and the remaining matters pending before the courts were adjourned. The only way to unseal the file, is consent of all parties involved, or a court order. So, I would like to ask the Minister, since the file was sealed, how does he take it upon himself to release this report accordingly?

Supplementary To Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 898

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Patterson.

Further Return To Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report By Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 898

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, I believe the honourable Member is assuming that the Saskatchewan College Report, the investigation into the Fort Smith Health Centre, is one of the documents in the sealed court records. Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that the Saskatchewan College Report is not one of the sealed documents. To answer the honourable Member's question, I do not believe that the very limited release of the Report of the Saskatchewan College as I have outlined it, would in any way conflict with that court order, since that report is not one of the documents that was placed under seal. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report By Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 898

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 898

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I nearly called the Minister what I believe is an unparliamentary name, so I will not say it. Mr. Speaker, the Minister in this House, and I have the unedited Hansard for Thursday, September 10, stated "Mr. Speaker, on July 15 of this year, Dr. Viswalingam's request and injunction to prevent release of the College's Report," so now how can he indicate to this House that report was not part of the documents sealed? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 898

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Patterson.

Further Return To Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report By Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Question O764-12(2): Release Of Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 898

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, the issue before the Court, which is still before the Court, is whether the document in question should be released to the public, as I understand it. Mr. Speaker, I believe the rules of this Legislature state that when a matter is before the Courts, and the matter is whether this document should be released, it would be inappropriate for Members of this Assembly to take action which could, in any way, effect or prejudice those proceedings. That is my understanding of the sub-judiciary rule, Mr. Speaker. So, I referred to this judiciary rule, because the Member was asking me to take action that was presently under review by a Court, namely whether the document would by released publicly, and I believe that would be prejudicial to the eventual outcome of the court case. In no way, in responding to the question, Mr. Speaker, was I suggesting that the actual document was part of the sealed court records. Rather, the issue of the release of the document is before the court, and taking action one way or the other would be, in my view, prejudicial to the rights of the petitioner in that very court proceeding. Thank you.

Question O765-12(2): Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons Sealed By Court
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 898

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker. It is unfortunate that the matter of sub-judice is not a matter of convention, it is not a matter for the Minister to interpret for the Speaker. In fact, it is a practice that is normally adhered to by all Members, including Ministers, not to hide behind the issue. Mr. Speaker, I could have risen on a point of privilege, because I think that my privileges as a Member were negated by a remark that was, in fact, made by the honourable Member previously.

I recall answering, quite clearly, a question, I think not to question or impinge upon the sub-judice convention, but I asked a very clear question and it was this, could the Minister indicate to me whether or not the report of the Saskatchewan College of Physicians and Surgeons, was one of the documents that was sealed by the Court?

Question O765-12(2): Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons Sealed By Court
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 898

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Patterson.

Return To Question O765-12(2): Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons Sealed By Court
Question O765-12(2): Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons Sealed By Court
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 898

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that, no, it was not one of the documents sealed by the Court. Thank you.

Return To Question O765-12(2): Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons Sealed By Court
Question O765-12(2): Report Of Saskatchewan College Of Physicians And Surgeons Sealed By Court
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 898

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. New question, Mr. Gargan.

Question O766-12(2): Legality Of Regional Council Meeting During Session
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 898

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. Mr. Speaker, last week on September 9, 10 and 11, the Deh Cho Regional Council met at the Hay River Reserve. The Ministers have relied strongly on acts to respond to Members. The Territorial Hospital Insurance Act, the Medical Professions Act and the Public Inquiries Act.

However, Mr. Speaker, last week the Deh Cho Regional Council met. I have no objection to it, but under the Regional Councils Act under section five of the Act, it provides that every council must meet at least once each year, half of every calendar year. Each council is to determine, at each meeting, the dates of the next meeting. The council may hold meetings at any time, except when the Legislative Assembly is in session. Mr. Speaker, I did inform the Minister of the meeting, and whether or not it was legal for the council to meet.

Unfortunately, he did not respond to me. I would like to know if the meeting did take place and whether or not, since the Ministers are so keen on referring to Acts, why the Minister, in this case, did not act?

Question O766-12(2): Legality Of Regional Council Meeting During Session
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 898

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo.

Return To Question O766-12(2): Legality Of Regional Council Meeting During Session
Question O766-12(2): Legality Of Regional Council Meeting During Session
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 898

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Mr. Speaker, I will take the question as notice.

Question O767-12(2): Status Of Kiosk At Toronto Airport
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 898

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister responsible for the N.W.T. Development Corporation regarding the arts and crafts retail outlet at the Lester B. Pearson International Airport. I was wondering if the Minister could tell us what the status is of the outlet? Is it up and running at this time?

Question O767-12(2): Status Of Kiosk At Toronto Airport
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 898

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question O767-12(2): Status Of Kiosk At Toronto Airport
Question O767-12(2): Status Of Kiosk At Toronto Airport
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 899

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is up, it is running. We are starting to get some data back, and I would hope to have some financial statements available before the end of this session, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question O767-12(2): Status Of Kiosk At Toronto Airport
Question O767-12(2): Status Of Kiosk At Toronto Airport
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 899

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question O767-12(2): Status Of Kiosk At Toronto Airport
Question O767-12(2): Status Of Kiosk At Toronto Airport
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 899

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. To the same Minister, given our stunning success of predicting how sales would go in Seville, I was wondering if the department has revised its sales projections for the kiosk in Toronto?

Supplementary To Question O767-12(2): Status Of Kiosk At Toronto Airport
Question O767-12(2): Status Of Kiosk At Toronto Airport
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 899

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question O767-12(2): Status Of Kiosk At Toronto Airport
Question O767-12(2): Status Of Kiosk At Toronto Airport
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 899

John Pollard Hay River

No, Mr. Speaker. We have not revised those numbers yet.

Further Return To Question O767-12(2): Status Of Kiosk At Toronto Airport
Question O767-12(2): Status Of Kiosk At Toronto Airport
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 899

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Item 6, written questions. Ms. Mike.

Written Question 55-12(2): Results Of Assessments
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 899

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two written questions for the Minister of Renewable Resources. Will the Minister prepare and table, in the Legislative Assembly, a summary of results of all Indian and Northern Affairs assessments of abandoned D.E.W. Line sites undertaken during the summer of 1992?

Written Question 56-12(2): Location Of Assessments
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 899

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

My second written question, Mr. Speaker, if I may proceed? My second written question is also for the Minister of Renewable Resources. Will the Minister indicate the electoral constituency in which each of the following D.E.W. Line sites are located: a) Pierce Point; b) Horton River; c) Atkinson Point; d) Bernard Harbour; and e) Mathison Point? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Written Question 56-12(2): Location Of Assessments
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 899

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 6, written questions. Mr. Gargan.

Question 57-12(2): Government Liability For Action Against A Producer By C.e.m.a.
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 899

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My written question is to the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. Under the terms of the National Farm Products marketing sham, what are the liabilities of this government? I am sorry, this is to the Minister of Justice. What are the liabilities of this government for penalties arising out of successful court actions taken by the Canadian Egg Marketing Agency, C.E.M.A., for the illegal export of eggs by Northwest Territories producers to which the Government of the Northwest Territories has made contribution payments, and governments obligation to advise C.E.M.A. of export violation?

Written Question 58-12(2): Government Obligations To Advise C.e.m.a. Of Export Violations
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 899

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Written question to the Minister of Justice, under the laws of Canada, its provinces or territories, is this government obliged to report instances of illegal exporting of eggs with the Canadian Egg Marketing Association, or other agencies?

Written Question 58-12(2): Government Obligations To Advise C.e.m.a. Of Export Violations
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 899

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.

Return To Written Question 48-12(2): Court Administration Costs
Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 899

David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, return to question 48-12(2), asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell, replied to by the Minister of Justice concerning the court administration costs.

Return To Written Question 48-12(2): Court Administration Costs
Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 899

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, replies to budget address. Ms. Mike.

Item 9: Replies To Budget Address
Item 9: Replies To Budget Address

Page 899

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am very pleased to be able to rise and give my reply to the budget address this afternoon. I say that because I believe the current budget carries several important implications for the people and the communities of the Northwest Territories.

Over the past several months, I have been privileged to serve as a member of the Standing Committee on Finance, and to participate in the preparation of that committee's report. I wish to say that I strongly support the position taken by the standing committee, but today I also wish to raise some additional points that I bring forward, not as a committee Member, but rather as the Member for Baffin Central.

I will begin by speaking about an issue that I think has had significant influence on the development of this government's fiscal policy, particularly, in the area of economic development and tourism.

Mr. Speaker, that issue has to do with the distribution of portfolio assignments within our current Cabinet. Although, I was generally pleased with direction taken by the Government Leader in her Cabinet reorganization, I continue to have concerns about the fact that a single Minister has shared responsibility for the Department of Finance, and the Department of Economic Development and Tourism.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that the philosophies underline the tasks of those departments, do conflict with each other. Right from the start of the 12th Assembly, this House has been told that the government has entered a time of restraint. This was again emphasized in the opening address for this session, and now in the budget address for 1991-92.

The appropriate lead department in developing strategies to address restraint is the Department of Finance. Its key function, at this point in time, is to ensure that the necessary controls and planning are in place to turn around the excess of previous years. At this time, in our history, Mr. Speaker, it is concerned with reduction.

On the other hand, the Ministers other department is concerned with development of economic system and products. It is concerned with growth. The Department of Finance, Mr. Speaker, is geared towards centralized function.

It requires intensive attention to headquarters operation in Yellowknife, and it is a top down at administration.

On the other hand, the Department of Economic Development and Tourism simply cannot use the same top down approach. It must listen to, and work with grassroots ideas that are generated within the regions. The Department of Finance requires the Minister's attention to be focused on Yellowknife operations. The Department of Economic Development makes him put his priority in the regions.

These roles conflict, and I believe would compromise decision making in the office of any Minister with these two portfolios. What I wish to stress here, is not with the honourable Member for Hay River, but rather with the Government Leader's decision to assign these two departments to the same Minister.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, I would note that the ministerial workload for both these portfolios is overwhelming, as I am sure you remember from your time as the Minister of Finance. I am concerned that the heavy time pressures involved in heading these two departments are causing important work to be overlooked in each of them.

The Department of Finance for instance, has been unable to bring forward an assessment of the impact of the past years expenditure management program, which restraint government hiring and contracting.

Similarly, I wonder what is the status of the Public Accounts Committee's June recommendation of the role of Comptroller General be reviewed? Certainly there have been no ministerial announcements, or statements, as to whether this important initiative is being acted on.

On the economic development side, I am concerned about whether our current Minister has been able to spend time building the government corporations and agencies established during the 11th Assembly. There are concerns about the lack of direction within the N.W.T. Development Corporation and as far as I understand, there are still no regional boards for the credit corporation.

In response to question from my honourable colleague from Deh Cho last week, we learned that agricultural marketing agencies, that were seen as a priority at the end of the 11th Assembly, still have not been established.

As honourable Members know, I have been concerned with several aspects of our northern fisheries, including scope and administration of the contract with Co-Pro Ltd. of Ottawa, federal/territorial consultation on the issuance of fishing licences, and priority setting from the exploratory fishery.

I understand that concerns about fisheries are not confined to Baffin region. I am concerned that some elements of the Great Slave commercial fishing community have commented on the lack of governmental leadership in dealing with the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation, and as my honourable colleague from Natilikmiot pointed out on Friday, the department seems to have lost contact with small businesses in Kitikmeot.

Mr. Speaker, I would again repeat that I am not blaming the honourable Minister. I know that he is a talented and hard working Member of this House, however, the challenge of combining these two busy and competing departments is more than any single Minister should be expected to take responsibility for.

It is my position that the Government Leader should reassign the portfolios of the current Minister, so that role and time conflicts are minimized. I will be raising this matter on other occasions over the course of the current session.

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to make some comments on specific parts of the budget, which the Minister of Finance brought forward last Thursday.

Honourable Members, will know, for instance, that the problem of domestic violence has been with us for many years. It will continue to remain with us unless we do something about it. Although some progress has been made in terms of crisis shelter for women and their children, I find it astounding that there is so little money spent on treating the offender. There is an almost total absence of effective, culturally appropriate treatment for batterers or sexual offenders, both in our correctional facilities or in the community setting.

Now that corrections has become the responsibility of the Department of Justice, we must be mindful that this need for services does not fall between the cracks.

Mr. Speaker, there is also a need to improve support services to victims of family violence or sexual assault. The Minister of Social Services should be aware that apart from some crisis services, there is very little that is available for victims in our smaller communities. What the Minister has to realize is that the stress which victims experience, as they go through, is not a short term issue. It is not an individual issue, either. This has an impact of the family members, and others in the community, who are thrust into the helping role. It is a heavy burden to carry, Mr. Speaker, and there is very little support from the department in terms of funded programming to assist in this area. We need additional resources, both funding and expertise, to be directed toward these community needs.

Mr. Speaker, there is another area in which we need additional professional resourcing, at least in the Baffin, I would expect that this is true throughout the territories, and that is in the area of dental services. I hope the Minister of Health will carefully consider the fact that families are presently having to pay their own way to Iqaluit from locations throughout the Baffin in order to have their children's teeth looked at by a qualified dentist.

The visitation schedule that has been set for the dental team is simply inadequate to meet the community needs. Our children have other needs, Mr. Speaker. I will not speak extensively on the education system at the present time, but honourable Members should know that, like many others, I am concerned that our present approach is not entirely sufficient.

One idea that I would like see the Minister consider, is an increased approach to supporting student exchange programming. I do not mean north-south exchanges, Mr. Speaker, but rather an exchange of students between our northern communities. As the Minister knows, there is a wealth of knowledge to be gained from experiencing how others in the Northwest Territories live.

It seems as though the department is not paying enough attention to this. I will never forget the time I spent as a resident of Lutsel K'e, it was Snowdrift at the time, Mr. Morin's constituency. I had a chance to experience, first-hand, the differences and similarities which exist between the Inuit communities, where I grew up, and the Dene communities that have continued to survive throughout history.

I learned what it was like to accompany Chipewyan families on the land, and to discover the northerners who share the same concern about the animals and the environment which surround us. Sometimes I think that discussions about the constitutional future of the north, and especially of the division of the Northwest Territories, would be much easier if only we had all shared that experience. I will be encouraging the Minister to carefully consider the benefit of this new idea.

While I am on the topic of hunting and trapping, Mr. Speaker, I need to call on our Minister of Renewable Resources to undertake a needs assessment of the organizational and financial support currently provided to H.T.A.s across the Northwest Territories. Presently the ability of the Hunters' and Trappers' Associations to take on the tasks which have to be undertaken, and this in spite of the fact that an increasing amount of the Association's time and effort have to be directed toward the completion of government surveys input on legislative, regulatory initiatives, and participation in planning activities. If the government is seriously interested in receiving community input from these H.T.A.'s, it will ensure that they have adequate resources to carry out the work.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a few brief comments about two of my pet economic development considerations. First, most honourable Members have already heard about some of my concerns with regard to fisheries development in the Baffin region. To summarize, the priority areas I would like the government to act quickly on, is providing a larger and more suitable fish plant and docking facility for the existing fishery in Pangnirtung. A strategic plan for the aggressive marketing of fish and other products. A strategy for building markets, and a distribution network for the incidental catch which consists mainly of large Greenland sharks, because it is wrong to see it left rotting and wasted on the sea ice.

My second pet project for economic development, has to do with the issue of import substitution, about which my honourable colleague from Keewatin Central spoke so clearly at our last sitting. The Department of Economic Development should be working now to promote greater inter-community trade throughout the Northwest Territories. This is one of the important recommendations made almost three years ago in the S.C.O.N.E. report, but it has not been acted on, by either the former, or the current Minister. In an earlier speech to this House, I commented that there is no reason why the firm in Fort McPherson should not be allowed to provide all canvas products for government use across the Northwest Territories.

Muskox meat, turbot and even some agricultural products, could be provided to residential schools and institutions throughout the territories by northern-owned and northern-operated producers. The Minister of Economic Development needs to devote more attention to the issues of import substitution. Mr. Speaker, these are only some of the matters that I wanted to raise relative to the budget before us. I am sure that we will have an opportunity to discuss them fully as we proceed through the appropriation debate. I look forward to addressing these on behalf of my constituents in the days to come. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Item 9: Replies To Budget Address
Item 9: Replies To Budget Address

Page 901

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 9, replies to budget address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Mr. Todd.

Committee Report 17-12(2): Report Of The Standing Committee On Finance: Review Of The 1992-93 Main Estimates
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 901

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Introduction

Committee Report 17-12(2): Report Of The Standing Committee On Finance: Review Of The 1992-93 Main Estimates
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 901

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to give the Report of the Standing Committee on Finance on the 1992-93 main estimates. In our report on the 1992-93 capital estimates, the Standing Committee of Finance stated that there was a need for a fundamental change, in the way in which government does business in the North. The Standing Committee feels that the status quo is no longer acceptable, it simply does not work.

On balance, the changes proposed in the 1992-93 main estimates, represents a move towards this direction. Proposals for reshaping government, eliminating departments and unnecessary levels of bureaucracy, and devolving programs and services to the community level hold some promise. The standing committee will continue to offer constructive criticism and, hopefully, some possible solutions to the Cabinet to help guide them along the path to better and more effective government.

The Standing Committee on Finance met with the Minister of Finance, and the government's departments, in July and August, to discuss a number of concerns that we have noted in our report. We trust that Cabinet noted our concerns during the sometimes lively discussions, and are prepared for a full and frank discussion during this session.

During our departmental reviews, we were pleased that the majority of the information we requested, was forwarded in a timely manner. However, Members noted that some of the more experienced Ministers were unable to answer some of our most basic questions about their budgets. In other words, Mr. Speaker, they were ill prepared. The committee will expect that all Ministers are fully prepared to answer our questions during future reviews.

The committee recognizes that this review will have minimal impact on the current budget given the unique timing of the process this year. By the time the Assembly has completed the review of this budget in committee of the whole, we will be a full six months into the current fiscal year. However, we expect that our concerns and recommendations will be incorporated into the Operations and Maintenance budget for 1993-94.

Reshaping Northern Government

On major issues, the standing committee identified several issues, and they are as follows. On reshaping northern government, reshaping northern government is moving forward. However, the committee is concerned that the government is not managing the change very well. Activity is happening at the centre, but we have not seen much evidence that it is trickling down to the people who are most affected by this fundamental change.

When is consultation with community, and regional leaders going to occur? The committee feels that this should be one of the priorities of the reshaping project. It cannot simply be an academic exercise, if consultation does not take place with the people most familiar, and most affected, by the government programs and services, we feel that the project will prove to be costly and a time-consuming failure.

Growing Cost Of The Civil Service

On the growing costs of the civil service. The government pays almost $350 million annually to pay for the civil service, a full one-third of the Operations and Maintenance Budget. While we search for ways to make reductions in this budget, the overall cost of the civil service, the "deliverers", continues to increase. In reality, the cost of the civil service cannot continue to increase, or soon there will be nothing left to deliver.

The previous Assembly approved a motion to control government expenditures, by reducing total person years by five percent within two years. During our review, we did not find a significant reduction. The government's response was that organizational change may yield person year reductions. This is little comfort to the unemployed, the uneducated, and the people without houses.

If we need money for programs, and we clearly do, this government must come to grips with the cost of running the civil service. The committee feels that it is time for the government, and the various unions, to sit down and design a "made-in-the-north" pay and benefits package for all our employees. We can no longer rely on an antiquated system that was designed at a time when the north was considered but a mere outpost by the rest of Canada. On support to local bodies, at a time when we are looking for innovative ways to decentralize government, we are concerned with the cuts to local and regional bodies. What we are supposed to be doing is preparing local governments for the evolution, we are also cutting duty travel, and training funds in the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. Surely this will have an adverse affect on the support that we can give these communities, if we are going to devolve, and decentralize more responsibility. Clearly, there is something fundamentally wrong with this strategy. If it is allowed to persist, this government will stand fairly accused of off-loading programs to the communities, without providing sufficient training and funding for them to do the job properly. We must look at enhancing training and support to the communities, so they have the ability to take over responsibility for programs, and services as they are devolved to them.

Social Issues

On the social issues, the standing committee is concerned about some of the cuts, and funding deficiencies that we have seen within the Department of Social Services. As we have stated many times, we will not support any reduction that will adversely affect those most in need. The committee recognizes that some of the social programs will be phased out, and are directly related to problems in society, higher levels of unemployment, overcrowding, housing shortages, and low educational levels. However, in trying to solve these problems, we cannot continue to underfund social services. We must ask ourselves, what would be the human and financial costs if we do not do anything? For example, in the budget, it is the committee's feeling that we must put more money into programs for suicide and A.I.D.S. prevention, yet, we cut a suicide position. The committee sometimes feels that we are so busy putting our fingers in the dike, there is no time left for resources to enact some kind of preventative measures to assist the people in the north. In addition, we must also provide adequate after-care treatment programs for those people caught within the vicious circle of social problems that we see in the north. If we do not pay today, you can be sure we will pay much more in the future. The community is equally concerned with the growing trend to underfund programs delivered by other people, for example, alcohol and drug workers, and workers with the aged and handicapped, who are grossly underpaid in comparison with the civil service. Wages for these essential workers must be brought into line immediately, before more dedicated people are lost at the community level. The committee will expect the government to show us that they are going to address these problems when we review the 1993-94 Operation and Maintenance Budget in January. On hire north, the committee remains concerned about the insufficient number of northerners and affirmative action candidates in the public service, particularly, in senior positions. We note that the Assembly passed the motion during the summer sitting, that directed the government to take immediate action to tackle this problem. It must become the exception to look south to fill jobs in the north. We must find new and creative approaches to fill our public service positions with northerners. This is but one way that we can begin to solve some of the serious social and economic problems, as we head into the next century.

Measuring Output And Effect

On measuring output and effect, the standing committee noted, during our review of 1992-93 Capital Estimates, that we must plan a way to quantify what the permits will accomplish with the money we are spending on programs and services. We have already stated that we will not recommend approval of programs that do not, or cannot, show they work. During our review of the budget, we noted time and time again, that Minister's could not give us the simple information. This is unacceptable. For example, in the Department of Economic Development and Tourism, and its Arts and Crafts Program, it could not relate program activity to the sales pool, or other output measures. In other words, we are spending money. What are we getting back for it? This remains a serious concern of the Standing Committee on Finance, one which we will be giving serious consideration to, during future reviews. If the government does not set measurable goals for future budgets, the committee will be left with no alternative, but to set them for them.

Committee Initiatives

On committee initiatives, as we have noted on a number of

occasions, this committee feels that our role is not just to review and advise, but to offer practical solutions to some of the financial difficulties that we face. After all, we are all in this together. To this end, the committee has taken several initiatives to create, or explore, creative ways to raise investment capital and stimulate the economy. We are currently working on attracting offshore investment to build badly needed public housing. Mr. Antoine, my colleague, is looking at the establishment of a heritage investment fund, so we can have resource revenues for reinvestment, and to target sectors of the economy. Mr. Dent is looking at a large one-time investment of capital dollars to build infrastructure, and we are also looking at innovative ways to increase tourism and revenues by legalizing some forms of gambling in the north.

Value For Money Audit Program

On value for money audit program to assist the Assembly in holding department's accountable, would acquire a better system of cheques and balances in the financial area. A second opinion on how we do things. To accomplish this, we will be presenting a plan for the Auditor General to perform value for money audits in key areas, during the life of the Assembly.

Conclusion

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, the Standing Committee on Finance recognizes that the government has put much effort into this budget, and has tried to respond positively to our recommendations. However, the committee remains concerned that the government does not have a clear set of priorities. Something is simply not right, when we put resources into needless capital projects such as Expo, and the development of library legislation, but squeeze essential programs that attempt to deal with the crippling social programs we have got, like suicide, and alcohol and drug abuse. Although, we have been told many times that we will be seeing an overall new approach to government, the committee feels that the departments still have tunnel vision when it comes to the budget. Each department vying for their piece of the pie. The committee feels that the government needs an integrated, cooperative approach to dealing with those problems. Then, and only then, can we begin to deal with some of these problems.

The committee has expanded upon its concerns, and the departmental reviews reform the support, along with its 97 recommendations. We expect that the government will respond in time for a review of the 1993 Main and Capital Estimates.

Finally, as Members are aware, the standing committee is trying to meet outside of Yellowknife, whenever possible. We believe it is important that Members of the committee receive a fresh perspective from the people that we serve. Sometimes we seem to forget that. Something that is not always possible when we meet here in Yellowknife. During our review of our current budget, the committee travelled to Fort Simpson for three days of meetings. During our visit, we were able to meet with the Village Council of Fort Simpson, and in addition, on our return, we visited Nahanni Butte, and met with members of the band council in that community. Both these meetings proved very informative. The committee would like to thank the people of Fort Simpson, Nahanni Butte, and the honourable Member for Nahendeh, for the generous hospitality during our visit.

Mr. Speaker, that concludes the standing committee's report on finance, I would therefore move, seconded by the honourable Member from Inuvik, that the Report of the Standing Committee on Finance is moved into committee of the whole for consideration. Thank you.

---Applause

Committee Report 17-12(2): Report Of The Standing Committee On Finance: Review Of The 1992-93 Main Estimates
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 903

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Motion is in Order. All those in favour? All those opposed? Mr. Todd's motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee Report 17-12(2): Report Of The Standing Committee On Finance: Review Of The 1992-93 Main Estimates
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 903

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Mr. Todd.

Bill 9: An Act To Amend The Insurance Act, Moved Into Committee Of The Whole
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 903

John Todd Keewatin Central

Mr. Speaker, I wish to report to the Assembly that the Standing Committee on Finance has reviewed Bill 9, an Act to Amend the Insurance Act, and wishes to report that the bill is now ready for committee of the whole.

Bill 9: An Act To Amend The Insurance Act, Moved Into Committee Of The Whole
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 903

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Pursuant to rule 66-3, Bill 9 is ordered into committee of the whole.

Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Bernhardt.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 903

Ernie Bernhardt Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table the following document, tabled document 84-12(2), a listing of graduates from various Northwest Territories communities over the past five year period. This document was prepared by the Department of Education. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 903

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you Mr. Bernhardt. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Gargan.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 903

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table two documents. The first, tabled document 85-12(2), is a discussion paper prepared in September 19, 1991 by the Minister of Justice for Canada, entitled "Aboriginal People and the Justice Administration." The second document, tabled document 86-12(2), is an extract from the Hansard of the House of Commons on Wednesday, April 8, 1992, regarding comments made in question period regarding the appointment of Don Avison, as Director General for the federal Council for Aboriginal and Justice Administration. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 903

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 13, tabling of documents. Ms. Cournoyea.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 903

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document, tabled document 87-12(2), "The Annual Report of the Status of Women's Council of the Northwest Territories for the year ending March 31, 1992."

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 903

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Mr. Todd.

Motion 31-12(2): Comprehensive Audit Of The Northwest Territories Power Corporation
Item 14: Notices Of Motions

Page 903

John Todd Keewatin Central

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Wednesday, September 16, I will move the following motion: I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Inuvik, that this Legislative Assembly direct the Executive Council of the Northwest Territories, the Government of the Northwest Territories, to formally request of the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs that a comprehensive audit of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation be undertaken pursuant to section 11 of the Auditor General Act; and further request that the Speaker communicate this resolution to the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs and the Auditor General of Canada.

Motion 31-12(2): Comprehensive Audit Of The Northwest Territories Power Corporation
Item 14: Notices Of Motions

Page 903

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Motion 30-12(2): Public Inquiry Into Medical Services In Fort Smith
Item 16: Motions

Page 903

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS the Fort Smith Health Centre has been regarded as a vital health care facility by the residents of Fort Smith for many years;

AND WHEREAS an agreement was made with the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories on September 12, 1980, establishing that the health centre should be managed and operated by an appointed board of management;

AND WHEREAS over the past year there has been growing public recognition of communication difficulties and conflict among the board of management administrative staff and medical personnel;

AND WHEREAS the Wilson and Associates reports identified major problems in the operation of the health centre, and there has been little or no action on the vast majority of recommendations included in this report;

AND WHEREAS the Saskatchewan College of Physicians and Surgeons was asked to prepare a report, which commented on aspects of the quality of medical services delivery;

AND WHEREAS this report has not been made public;

AND WHEREAS following the resignation of several board members, the Minister of Health appointed a public administrator under the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act;

AND WHEREAS this appointment has caused concern and speculation among the residents of Fort Smith, thus diminishing the community confidence in the Fort Smith Health Centre;

AND WHEREAS the status of a physician who has been a long term Fort Smith resident, is unclear in the public's mind;

AND WHEREAS by demonstration, petition and at a public meeting, the residents of Fort Smith have showed their support for an early public review, and resolution of the medical and administration activities of the Fort Smith Health Centre;

AND WHEREAS the Minister of Health has referred the non- public report of the Saskatchewan College of Physicians and Surgeons to a board of inquiry established under the Medical Professions Act;

AND WHEREAS the Public Inquiries Act, passed by the Legislative Assembly, provides the mechanism and opportunity for residents of the Northwest Territories to be able to request the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories to cause a public inquiry into the matters relating to the conduct of a public business of the territories, or any matter of public concern;

AND WHEREAS the public of Fort Smith have a grave concern with the administration, and quality, of medical services in the community of Fort Smith;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, that this Legislative Assembly supports the need for a public inquiry into the issues surrounding the administration, and quality, of medical services provided by the Fort Smith Health Centre to the residents of Fort Smith;

AND FURTHER request the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories to give earnest and immediate consideration to cause an inquiry to be held on the matter pursuant to section two of the Public Inquiries Act. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker and honourable Members, I have indicated to the public prior to the session sitting, that I would ask for a public inquiry into the Fort Smith Health Centre.

The Minister of Health, however, prior to the session held, decided to, instead, create a board of inquiry under the Medical Profession Act, to address many concerns of the Fort Smith Health Centre. I would like to advise Members of this House as to what has happened to date, to my knowledge, and why I am asking for a public inquiry.

Last year I met with the board of the Fort Smith Health Centre. At that time, they indicated that they wanted to do a review, or a terms of reference was going to be developed. However, I recognized after the review was done, that even the terms of reference were not adhered to. I looked at section two of the terms of reference, that I tabled in this House last week, where it indicates that the committee will be comprised of at least four to five members, as selected by the Saskatchewan College of Physicians and Surgeons. I have since been advised that this report that was completed, that the Minister seems to be passing around, had been done by only two physicians of the College of Saskatchewan, they went into the Fort Smith Health Centre, and did a review in one and a half days. The terms of reference that the board developed, for the College of Physicians to go in to do the review, makes me wonder how the review was done.

I was advised that the report in question has some concern in respect to its validity, and the fairness, of how it is being done. It is a process used in developing the report that has caused concern, and even indicated that the terms of reference were not adhered to. I indicated that the process of the report was questionable. I also indicated, that at the time the operation of the board under the current chairmanship continued to be problematic, and that the board was questionable. That the board was operating under the dictatorship of the chairman and the administrator. The Minister at the time, I felt took action, wrote to the chairman, and requested a copy of the report. So, therefore, he wrote to him on July 23 and thanked him for the report. At that time, he directed the chairman to ensure three preconditions, be met prior to this profession going back to work in the Fort Smith Health Centre.

These preconditions were to be agreed to by July 31. He sent this letter on July 23. Seven days was granted to the board to deal with this. However, the board did not meet within those seven days. The chairman was not even in town, and they only ran a five member board, so it was difficult to meet. On August 5, though, the chairman went back to Fort Smith. He called all the board members, he requested that they resign, and he was willing to send to the board members, developed letters of resignation which they should sign, he stated.

He also indicated to two board members that three had already resigned. One board member indicated information to the public, at the public meeting, that I held on September 3. So, since three out of five board members resigned, the board was non-functioning. So quickly, exactly what the Minister wanted, he appointed a public administrator, Mr. Don Ellis, who is our Regional Director.

There are many questions that arose at the public meeting on September 3. The appointment of the public administrator was made without advising the public, they wanted to know why. I know it was because of the poor chairmanship that the board was under, but why did the Minister not just remove the chairman? Because the chairman at the time was at pleasure.

On August 10 I flew to Yellowknife to meet with the Minister, to ensure that it was not the intentions of his office to suspend a professional, that he referred to in the letter that he wrote to Peter Fraser, on July 23, who at the time was the chairman. The Minister assured me that the professional would not be suspended, and that he would give me a copy of the terms of reference for the public administrator. He also indicated that he would leave everything up to the public administrator to address on this issue.

I met with the public administrator, subsequently, on August 14, to advise him of my concerns on how this report was developed. However, my concerns fell on deaf ears. On August 20 the public administrator, Mr. Ellis, called to advise me that he was planning to suspend the professional in question, due to the College of Physicians' report. He also stated, that he may reconsider, if I could convince the professional to take a competency test, and a psychiatric test. I asked him at the time for even the courtesy of the weekend to see what we could do.

However, unfortunately, Mr. Ellis decided not to wait the weekend. He wrote to the professional, and advised him that his privileges in the Fort Smith Health Centre were suspended. On August 26, the Minister of Health was to open a personal care unit. He was greeted by a group of demonstrators asking for a public inquiry. At the time the Minister advised me that a public inquiry was premature without a public meeting. It was difficult, at the time, to call for a public meeting, because I did not have it confirmed that the administrator suspended the doctor's privileges.

On September 1, I knew that the privileges were officially suspended, therefore, I advertised for a public meeting on September 1, and I apologized to my constituents for not giving them enough time. However, my time frame did not allow for more time. On September 2, I came to Yellowknife to meet with the Special Committee on Health and Social Services. The Minister's officials were all in the room on September 2 and 3, so they knew where I was. In the afternoon of September 3, I was approached by a C.B.C. reporter, who advised me that the Minister of Health had set up a board of inquiry, and she asked, what did I think about it?

I guess that is one of the concerns in respect to why people want a public inquiry, Mr. Speaker, is the fact that none of this information, none of these decisions, are made at the community. None of the decisions are made with respect to consultation of the past board, or even consideration given to myself. So, therefore, I went to the public meeting on the evening of September 3, and we must remember that the board of inquiry was set up without even consideration of advising my office on the afternoon of September 3.

When I held a public meeting, of which I only gave two days notice, at least a hundred people from all across the community attended. Many of my constituents, unequivocally, requested a public inquiry. Mr. Speaker, my constituents and myself feel that there are too many unanswered questions, which I will attempt to outline for the honourable Members today.

First of all, the terms of reference, under section two, stated that the committee will comprise of at least four to five members elected by the College of Physicians. However, only two physicians from the Saskatchewan College developed the report. Why did the Board of Management not at least have the opportunity to address the report? From my understanding, the board did not want to, because of the way it was developed.

Why did the Minister send to the former chairman that the Board of Management place preconditions on this profession prior to the doctor returning from holidays? Why did the chairman have letters, all typed and developed, for each board member, and did not even call for a board meeting instead of requesting each board member to sign these developed letters of resignation?

Why was the public administrator appointed on August 7, and his terms of reference not developed until August 20? Generally, it is the practice of a Minister to develop terms of reference, and then appoint an individual to a mandated job.

The Minister of Health received a copy of my letter to Mr. Ellis on August 21, indicating my disappointment with his planned action, and also advising Mr. Ellis that it would leave me no alternative, but to request a public inquiry. So, the Minister knew I was going to ask for a public inquiry. The Minister knew I was conducting a public meeting on September 3, as I advised his Deputy Minister on September the 2, when he came in front of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services. I told him that I was having a meeting in Fort Smith the next day.

The Minister's Executive Assistant was right in the room, the same room as the Special Committee on Health and Social Services, so his saying that he did not know where I was, is very questionable. The Minister decided to hold a board of inquiry under the Medical Profession Act, because he knew that a public inquiry would bring out too many things that, I believe, he may want to hide. The public inquiry will bring out the report, and how it was developed, why the Board resigned, and why the Minister appointed a public administrator to make the decision to suspend a professional in Fort Smith, that people in Fort Smith want.

The Minister knows that the particular document he is circulating, and sent to Dr. Covert, or to his board of inquiry to address under the board of inquiry, is a document that apparently is sealed in the courts. So, there is no other avenue to even advise my constituents. I cannot even go to the courts. However, this document remains and is being circulated. I may even believe, Mr. Speaker, that the Minister may be in contempt of court. Mr. Speaker, this particular Minister, is the same Minister who wants to bring in access to information, but is denying unequivocally a request from my constituents for a public inquiry. How can we have an access to government and deny people of what is going on? There were many concerns when I held the public meeting.

There were concerns that an elder had just passed away of a heart attack, and they wondered whether that could have been prevented, and if he would have gone to the hospital, if he knew his doctor was there. I wonder how many more have to pass on.

The irony of this whole issue, Mr. Speaker, and I want to advise this House, is that the public, my constituents, want to have their doctors serve them out of the Fort Smith Health Centre, but because of the administration in the health department, they are denied of such a privilege.

Instead of allowing the public to know what is going on, this Minister is only allowing for this issue to be handled by a board of inquiry, not a public inquiry.

Friday afternoon, I agreed with the Minister of Health to get an independent legal opinion. An independent legal opinion is basically, what I was trying to tell the Minister all week. It was basically stating that the board of inquiry can only discipline or dismiss, which I know the Minister wants. It also indicated that the board of inquiry, and the medical professional inquiry, and I quote from the legal opinion "the purpose of the two statutes are very different," and that is what I was trying to tell the Minister last week.

Mr. Speaker, I feel that we at least owe it to the public of Fort Smith to bring this whole issue out, and further, to at least allow for justice to be done. Do we not owe it to the public, not to prosecute a person until proven guilty?

Members, honourable colleagues, it appears this Minister has done just that. All I can say is that I am happy he is no longer the Minister of Justice. There does not seem to be any justice in this whole fiasco. Mr. Speaker, I urge my honourable colleagues to support my motion for a public inquiry, because remember we requested the transfer of health so that we can bring the delivery of health to the people, for the people. Not to bring the health delivery for bureaucrats to tell us what to do, and this is exactly what is happening. Thank you.

Motion 30-12(2): Public Inquiry Into Medical Services In Fort Smith
Item 16: Motions

Page 906

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Seconder of the motion, Mr. Nerysoo.

Motion 30-12(2): Public Inquiry Into Medical Services In Fort Smith
Item 16: Motions

Page 906

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when I first came to this session, the first week, I did not think I was going to be involved in a matter of this nature, in fact, if anything I probably would have stayed away from dealing with this particular issue, and allow my colleague to work out a solution with the honourable Minister. Unfortunately, that has not been the case and what is interesting in this whole debate, Mr. Speaker, is that there is, it seems, at times, significant confusion about what it is, what the intentions are, and what accomplishments are being made in terms of the review of the inquiry that has been suggested by the Minister, and on behalf of this government.

Mr. Speaker, I think that what I want to talk about with regard to this motion, is simply that there is a principle that most Members agree with, and that is the right of the people who we represent, to be involved in decisions that affect them. We are one of those institutions, and we have rights and privileges as Members to, in fact, represent our constituents. That we represent them as an institution, we do not take their place when they see it in their interests to represent themselves. We do not ignore, Mr. Speaker, their right and their responsibility for ensuring that they themselves, are being served by the institutions that they allow us to set up. We do not take their place, in fact, we are their representatives.

In this whole debate Mr. Speaker, it seems that we are not interested in hearing the views of those people, that we are not interested in listening to the concerns that they have about the service or program that is being brought to them, on behalf of this government, and on behalf of this Assembly. They are concerned about the manner in which their body of authority, I refer to their body of authority, not ours, but their body of authority, is delivering services to them.

Many of us here have worked diligently trying to ensure that the people in the communities have responsibility, authority and powers to make decisions for themselves. Unfortunately, in this particular case, that seems not to be happening.

I had not thought, Mr. Speaker, that I would be rising at any time during the session to challenge a decision of a Minister. What concerns me most, is the confusion and the kind of interpretation that are being given by our Cabinet Members with regard to legislation. I see this process, the public inquiry, as an opportunity for the people of Fort Smith, to present their concerns and to present their views about this particular matter.

I know that in some instances, there will be some limitations, because even the Public Inquiries Act does not allow every Member interested in making presentations to do so, but that is the nature of the legislation and it must be adhered to.

I think that the principle that I would argue for is, that the people must be heard, the people that are affected by the program, the service that is being delivered to them, and not simply to argue that the matter before the people is an administrative one. It is far more than that. I hope that the principle that we are going to vote on, is the matter of the people being involved. I know that the Minister will rise and say we are concerned about the costs, Mr. Speaker, government and Cabinet does not have the monopoly on the concern for cost. I think in our own comments we have made in this House, this side of the House has had as much concern about the over expenditure of government funds. If over expenditure of government funds challenges the principle that the people should be heard, the people have a right to be heard, then we are in the wrong business. They have every right to tell us what is wrong with this system, what is wrong with the services that are being delivered to them. If money is the basis on which we allow that principle to be protected, then I think, God help democracy in the right to elect people, because I think we are at risk and the peoples right to speak is at risk.

All of us here in this Assembly understand the matter of expenses. My first question was to ask the Minister, not in any way to be difficult, but to ask the Minister if there was any indication of no justice being seen, or being done, that he could consider a public inquiry? I did not challenge his ability to make a decision, initially, to have the Medical Professional Act to guide his decision, yet, he chose to say, "no" that would not be considered. So, Mr. Speaker, I have risen to speak on behalf of the motion, and second the motion, because I think that the fundamental principle we are arguing here, is a matter of the people being heard, and I think that principle is very important. That principle is applicable in Yellowknife Centre, in MacKenzie Delta, in Sahtu, as it is in every constituency, and every region. If we forget that is the principle, I think that we have lost sight of what we are trying to accomplish. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 30-12(2): Public Inquiry Into Medical Services In Fort Smith
Item 16: Motions

Page 906

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

To the motion. Mr. Patterson.

Motion 30-12(2): Public Inquiry Into Medical Services In Fort Smith
Item 16: Motions

Page 906

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, the honourable Member for MacKenzie Delta is quite right, I was going to point out that this will be a very expensive undertaking. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I think there should be very good, compelling, clear reasons for spending a half a million dollars or more. Money that is not budgeted, that will have to come from somewhere else, whether it is the H.A.P. program, or whatever else. Mr. Speaker, the reason this will be a very expensive undertaking in contrast to the board of inquiry under the Medical Profession Act, is that under the Public Inquiries Act, the board shall accord by section seven, "to any person who satisfies the board that he or she has a substantial and direct interest in the subject matter of an inquiry, an opportunity to not only give evidence, but also to call and examine or cross-examine witnesses." I think it is quite conceivable that many citizens, including patients from the centre, might well wish to seek standing. This inquiry could go on for months, and the costs could easily run to sizeable amounts. The recent so-called Bourassa Inquiry, even though it has a fairly narrow focus, cost over $500,000. Part of the reasons for these costs, Mr. Speaker, is that under this Act, the Member is recommending, parties who are compelled to testify would likely want legal counsel, and if past precedent is followed, our government will be asked to bear those costs, and at rates of easily $100.00 and hour, the cash register can ring up quite a bill rather fast.

This is in contract to the board of inquiry under the Medical Profession Act, which is predicted to cost $50,000 - $100,000, and has the power to order costs. So, Mr. Speaker, in light of the high cost involved, I wish we had the luxury to say money does not matter, we should set aside the costs, and the precedent. I would say again, I think this House must be satisfied that there are good reasons. I think that with the greatest of respect, it is incumbent on the honourable Member moving this motion to show that those compelling and good reasons exist.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to reiterate a point I have tried to make in the debates in this House over the last week, and it is simply this, the president of the board of inquiry has been asked by myself, to inquire into allegations with respect to the medical practice of a certain physician at the Fort Smith Health Centre. Dr. Covert has also been invited to advise and recommend on whether other aspects of medical services at the Fort Smith Health Centre also require further investigation. Honourable Members have expressed concern that the report will have possibly too narrow a focus, that the other broader issues may not be dealt with. I want to, again, assure the House that Dr. Covert has been asked to advise on other aspects of medical services, and therefore, the board will have the broader mandate, sought by the honourable Member. So I would recommend that we let the medical inquiry run its course, as laid out in Legislation, and then let us see where we are, and respond accordingly. Mr. Nerysoo stated in his comments, if natural justice seems not to be done, or appears not to have been done, which, as I understand, natural justice includes the right to be heard, and the right to be given the reasons for a decision, then certainly further investigation, and further inquiry, should be held. I do not know what impression I gave Mr. Nerysoo in answer to a question earlier this week, but let me say right here and now, I agree entirely with Mr. Nerysoo. If the result of this procedure, which is laid out in the legislation, where there is an issue of medical practice involved, raises further questions, if there are matters that appear obviously necessary to pursue, Mr. Speaker, I am sure the honourable Member from Thebacha will let me know of such matters that arise, that are still outstanding, following the conclusion of the board of inquiry. Then I will be prepared to take further steps, and those steps might well include a public inquiry. Mr. Speaker, I wonder if it is premature at this stage, and I will use the word I used when I was confronted in Fort Smith, whether it is premature at this stage to set in the works, another expensive public inquiry, when we have not even got the result of the one that has been put in place. Mr. Speaker, I am aware that the particular physician the Member is speaking about, that is concerned about, has a strong following in Fort Smith, and has support from the patients. I understand that, Mr. Speaker, but I hope the Honourable Member also understands that as Minister of Health, when I am presented with information that leads me to question the adequacy of the medical practice, I have a duty, Mr. Speaker, under the Act, to take further action to inquire, and to satisfy myself, that the highest standards of public health care are being followed in that community, whether the physician is popular or not. Mr. Speaker, a suggestion has been made by the honourable Member that the board was intimidated, pressured into resigning, or otherwise pressured by the Minister. I will be forthright with the House, Mr. Speaker, yes, I became impatient with the Board of Management of the Health Centre. Why, Mr. Speaker, because I knew that they had received this information of serious concerns about medical practice at the Fort Smith Health Centre, and for whatever reason, they were not doing anything. The problem I had with the board, Mr. Speaker, was that they were not acting, and, yes, I wrote a strong letter to the chairman of the board, saying here are issues that have been raised in the Saskatchewan College of Physicians and Surgeons Report. Either you deal with them, and exercise your responsibility for the adequacy of health care in the Fort Smith Health Centre, or you must resign. Either do your job or resign. So, there was pressure and there were deadlines extended, upon which I wanted action taken, and I did have in mind that the particular physician was going to be returning from holidays, and that the issue should be resolved one way or the other, before that time as to whether he should continue to have privileges at the centre pending an inquiry into those serious questions.

So, Mr. Speaker, I want to reiterate that I think we should take the first step and determine whether the matter is dealt with and, of course, the physician in question may be exonerated by the board of inquiry. I have made no judgement in any way about that physician's competence. I told the honourable Member that I was confident that his rights would be respected and I would note that the Medical Profession Act refers to the need to pursue natural justice, and I would hope that inquiry follows that imperative set out in our legislation.

So, Mr. Speaker, I want to reiterate that if the matter of public concern, the Members refer to, are still not cleared up following the board of inquiry which has now been set up and is underway, under the Medical Profession Act, then I would be open to taking further steps. Now, Mr. Speaker, as I said, I think that the Member has to have compelling reasons to persuade this Legislature that the significant step of having another inquiry, I presume the Member would want a parallel inquiry, at great cost should be taken.

It is incumbent upon her to present reasons. Now, Mr. Speaker, I have just noted some of the reasons that the Member has laid out, and I would like to just make a few comments. The Member is concerned that there were only two Saskatchewan physicians, the terms of reference called for four or five members to be established. Now I have taken that question as notice earlier in this session, but I believe that there are adequate explanations for why the original terms of reference were revised. When the information comes forward, this House will get proper explanation as to why the original terms of reference were revised. I expect that there was a cost factor, and I expect that the board authorized the administrator to deal with this matter and to make alternative arrangements in light of the costs of bringing in four or five physicians, a burden to a small health centre, as opposed to two.

The Member suggested questions of the validity of the Saskatchewan College investigation. Now, Mr. Speaker, I think it is very important that the House get more questions about validity. I would like to know if she is suggesting that eminent doctors, who are on the panel of the Saskatchewan College, which is the physician's home college for registration, were unqualified or biased. We need something more than her saying that there are questions about the validity.

Mr. Speaker, she talks about the poor communications between my office and herself with respect to this matter. I will acknowledge that communications were not ideal, that there could have been better consultation, particularly about the decision to name a board of inquiry, for which I have offered my regrets already in this House. But, Mr. Speaker, I do believe that it is fair to point out to the honourable Member, that in our discussions, I pointed out to her very clearly that there were serious concerns about medical practice in the Fort Smith Health Centre with respect to a particular physician, and I did point out to her very clearly that I believed that these concerns could not be ignored by me.

To me, and I believe I told the honourable Member this at the time, it has some analogy to the tainted tuna fish. If a Minister is given information, with a responsibility for public health, that Minister refuses to act on because of political pressure or because of public pressure of one kind or another, then that Minister is not just discharging their responsibility. I think it is only fair for me to say that I think that the honourable Member knew that a board of medical inquiry, and a peer review, was certainly a possibility.

That is why we had discussions about her encouraging the physician to voluntarily agree to accept an evaluation, and an assessment by professionals, so that he could voluntarily clear his name. Unfortunately, he was not willing to do that. So, Mr. Speaker, I want to conclude by saying that it is up to this House to decide whether the compelling reasons have been presented, that I think are required to be presented, in order to undertake this extremely expensive inquiry which I think will start at $.5 million and could easily cost $1 million.

In light of the costs, Mr. Speaker, I would like to call for a recorded vote, and I would also like to state that this matter has been considered by Cabinet, and in order to appear objective and to preserve our objectivity, Cabinet will abstain on this motion. I would like to say, Mr. Speaker, that we will be guided by the direction from this Assembly. We will be putting the matter under active consideration from here on in. It is a dynamic consideration, I have received notice this morning that another court action will be initiated on this matter later this week, so the situation is rapidly changing.

I want to reiterate, Mr. Speaker, that the government is not ruling out a public inquiry. What we are suggesting is that, at this time, we should let the peer review process take place. When a client complains about a lawyer's conduct, an abuse of funds for example, the Legal Profession Act springs into action. You do not hold a public inquiry, when there is a complaint about the competence of an engineer, if a bridge collapses or a building collapses, the engineers deal with their peer review, and you do not hold a public inquiry.

The same occurs with a pharmacist. Now, I think we should follow the procedure laid out in our Act, Mr. Speaker. I will reiterate again, once that is done, if the Member comes back and says that there are still concerns, there are still matters at issue, my constituents are still asking questions, or still in the dark, then that avenue would be open to us. It is the view of government, at this time, that we should take the course that is laid out in our own legislation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 30-12(2): Public Inquiry Into Medical Services In Fort Smith
Item 16: Motions

Page 908

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

To the motion. Mr. Gargan.

Motion 30-12(2): Public Inquiry Into Medical Services In Fort Smith
Item 16: Motions

Page 908

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess during the health transfer one of the basic principles was community and aboriginal control over the delivery of health services. This should mean that the community has a right to ensure the appropriate action is taken when it becomes concerned about the operations of a health facility.

There is more at stake here than an investigation into the performance of a single doctor. It has to do with the administration, and the operation, of the entire investigation into the performance of a single doctor. It has to do with the administration and the operation of the entire health centre and with the health centre's role in the community. The people of Fort Smith, particularly aboriginal people, have every right to be fully involved in all aspects of this operational review. That was a guaranteed condition of the health transfer.

The motion before the House is calling the Members to request that an inquiry be held under the Public Inquiries Act. The Minister seems to have taken a position that this should not occur, because it has decided to refer a report on a doctor's competency, to a board established under the Medical Profession Act.

I believe that the only appropriate framework in which to consider this matter is in a public inquiry established under the Public Inquiries Act. Here are the advantages of a public inquiry, it is stated clearly that the proceedings should take place in public, although there is a provision that if a board wishes, it can go in camera to deal with a very personal and private matter. The history of public inquiries in Canada has been that there has always been the best way to ensure that the public has an opportunity to provide input. For example, an inquiry earlier this year into the death of a prominent Manitoba native leader at the hands of police officers, dealt not only with the circumstances surrounding the misuse of power at that situation, but also with the larger concern of the aboriginal communities.

Two inquiries into the Alberta justice system, highlighted the short coming of European justice in terms of meeting the needs of aboriginal people. Again, the conclusion was reached with ample input from the public at large, and especially aboriginal organizations in that province.

Purely, Mr. Speaker, public inquiries have proven to be useful and efficient ways to get information out into the open in all Canadian jurisdictions. We should not be afraid to make full use of this vital approach in dealing with community concerns in the Northwest Territories.

There are many disadvantages to the Medical Profession Act. It is a form of peer review, no public review. By definition that means that it will focus on what the doctors think are important, not the people. There is far more to the trouble that the Fort Smith Health Centre, than the activities of a single doctor, whom the department seems to want to scapegoat.

---Applause

I have always been suspicious of the process of peer review. It is alright in a situation where there is a very narrow question to be considered. In this complicated situation, there must be an open and public process. The public inquiry is the only suitable approach.

I have publicly expressed, Mr. Speaker, my concerns over peer review approaches, used to override community concerns with respect to the Nursing Profession Act, the Engineering, Geologists, and Geophysicists Profession Act. In both these cases, there were commitments made when the legislation was reviewed under review, that there is an opportunity for community input and review of their findings. Even then, I am not entirely satisfied. However, in the case of the Medical Profession Act, there is not even a requirement that the board of inquiry has to submit a report. It can issue an order, but it does not even have to report its findings. How on earth is that going to answer the questions that members of Fort Smith community have on the working of their health centre?

A public inquiry is better. Further, the question on whether or not inquiry under the Medical Profession Act should not be misunderstood. The Act is silent on this issue, it does not say that the inquiry should be open, it does not say the inquiry should be closed.

The Minister has stated that this could mean that the medical board of inquiry hold a public process. However, we should not forget that the report referred to the board of inquiry, was that the commission on it, was on a strictly confidential basis. How on earth can the Minister expect the board to meet in public, when it will be dealing with a confidential report?

The public inquiry in the health centre is absolutely necessary. I must say that I found the Minister's comments on the inquiry very confusing. I must also say that I have received copies of the correspondence tabled by the honourable Member for Thebacha, including the Minister's correspondence of September 10, 1992. I find that his allegation that Mrs. Marie-Jewell has been working to prevent the successful resolution of the matter, is unfair and not accurate in my view.

I also find that the tone of his correspondence to be not becoming of a Minister of this government. A public inquiry is a must, and it is a culturally appropriate approach. The most important thing that honourable Members should ask themselves, in voting on this issue, is that when problems arise over the years, about aboriginal communities, how did our elders of the generations deal with them? Did they appoint a group of professionals to hold a private inquiry, or did they bring the community together as a whole to talk about the problems?

Honourable Members will know that through history, Dene and Inuit people have always dealt with community problems by bringing the communities together. Everyone had the opportunity to have input into how to resolve a community problem. Everyone knew what decisions would be made to solve the problem. These are the principles that we, as modern leaders, should be striving to achieve as well.

We will not achieve these with a board of inquiry under the Medical Profession Act. We will achieve this with an inquiry under the Public Inquiries Act. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 30-12(2): Public Inquiry Into Medical Services In Fort Smith
Item 16: Motions

Page 909

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

To the motion. Mr. Koe.

Motion 30-12(2): Public Inquiry Into Medical Services In Fort Smith
Item 16: Motions

Page 909

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to state that my colleagues, who have moved and seconded the motions, and the statements made by Mr. Gargan, have made a very strong case, and I will be exercising my right and privilege as a M.L.A., and make a decision by supporting this motion.

Motion 30-12(2): Public Inquiry Into Medical Services In Fort Smith
Item 16: Motions

Page 909

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

To the motion. Mrs. Marie-Jewell, you have the opportunity to conclude debate.

Motion 30-12(2): Public Inquiry Into Medical Services In Fort Smith
Item 16: Motions

Page 909

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I did not intend to say too much in closing my debate. I felt that my honourable colleagues have covered many of the areas. However, I do want to state to the House once again, that up to at least Friday afternoon, we tried to come to some type of resolution. I agreed along with the Minister of Health, and the House Leader, Mr. Pollard, that we would try to come to some type of resolution, where we finally agree that we would receive an independent legal opinion on the Public Inquiries Act, and the Medical Profession Act, for a board of inquiry, and I would like to quote some of that legal opinion. It says, "The purpose of the two statutes are very different. The Medical Profession Act allows for a board of inquiry for the limited purposes of examining discipline, complaints, or matters of a similar nature, referred by the Minister. The board of inquiry cannot report or recommend. It can only dismiss or discipline." The people of Fort Smith are asking why? There are many people in Fort Smith that believe that this doctor is a very good doctor. They have full confidence in him, and they want to know why the Department of Health is all of the sudden taking him out of the health centre. I believe that only in democracy, and the process of democracy, do we allow for these things to be answered. All I am asking is for these questions to be answered on behalf of my constituents.

The Minister indicated that we should let the board of inquiry run its course, because all it will do is bring forth recommendations, and I state unequivocally, "no, we do not want the medical board of inquiry to review, to run its course, because the medical board of inquiry consists of three members: one person nominated by the N.W.T. Medical Association, who is a medical practitioner; one person who is a medical practitioner, who is registered in the province; and at least one person who is neither of the above."

So, it is actually another peer review on a report that was submitted. What we are asking for is many unanswered questions into the whole Fort Smith Health Centre answered, and I believe, at the very least, my constituents deserve to be heard.

Mr. Speaker, at that public meeting, one constituent raised his hand and asked, "how can they ask me to obtain a public inquiry?" I stated, "I would like to ask one question, is there anyone in this room who does not want a public inquiry, for any reason?" Mr. Speaker, at that public meeting, not one person stood up or raised their hand, and that gave me the mandate to come to this House to ask for a public inquiry.

The Minister is indicating that he is saying that costs are already being absorbed, but yet in the House, when I questioned him under oral questions, he tells me that the board of inquiry has not even been set up yet. So, I wonder where the costs being absorbed are? I recognize that the costs of an inquiry is a lot of money, and I recognize the restraint we are in, but I believe that fundamentally, your health is very important, and if people are not healthy, what can they do? Do we put a price tag on health? Do we put a price tag to answer elders in our community, that they are deprived of some of their health opportunities, that we, as the government, should be giving them? I do not believe so. I believe that sometimes, for fundamental democracy, we cannot replace an answer with costs.

Mr. Speaker, in closing, I would like to urge my colleagues to support this motion. There are many unanswered questions with respect to this whole issue, that remain unanswered. I know a board of inquiry will not answer, but I know a public inquiry will. So, therefore, I call question on the motion. Thank you.

Motion 30-12(2): Public Inquiry Into Medical Services In Fort Smith
Item 16: Motions

Page 909

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Question has been called. A recorded vote has been requested. All those in favour of the motion, please stand.

Motion 30-12(2): Public Inquiry Into Medical Services In Fort Smith
Item 16: Motions

Page 909

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Mr. Gargan, Mr. Zoe, Mr. Koe, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Todd, Mr. Bernhardt, Mr. Lewis, Mr. Arngna'naaq, Mr. Pudluk, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Dent, Ms. Mike, and Mr. Nerysoo.

Motion 30-12(2): Public Inquiry Into Medical Services In Fort Smith
Item 16: Motions

Page 909

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

All those opposed to the motion, please rise. All those who abstain from the motion, please rise.

Motion 30-12(2): Public Inquiry Into Medical Services In Fort Smith
Item 16: Motions

Page 909

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Arvaluk, Mr. Pollard, Ms. Cournoyea, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Morin, Mr. Whitford, and Mr. Patterson.

Motion 30-12(2): Public Inquiry Into Medical Services In Fort Smith, Carried
Item 16: Motions

Page 909

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Motion is carried, 15 voting yes, 0 voting no, and 8 abstaining. First reading of bills. Mr. Pollard.

---Carried ITEM 17: FIRST READING OF BILLS

First Reading Of Bill 33: Appropriation Act No. 2, 1992-93
Item 16: Motions

Page 910

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Aivilik, that Bill 33, Appropriation Act No. 2, 1992-93, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First Reading Of Bill 33: Appropriation Act No. 2, 1992-93
Item 16: Motions

Page 910

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Motion is in order, Mr. Pollard. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Second reading of bills. Mr. Pollard.

Second Reading Of Bill 33: Appropriation Act No. 2, 1992-93
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member from Aivilik, that Bill 33, Appropriation Act No. 2, 1992-93, be read for the second time. Mr. Speaker, this Bill would authorize the Government of the Northwest Territories to make operations and maintenance expenditures for the fiscal year ending March 31, 1993. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Second Reading Of Bill 33: Appropriation Act No. 2, 1992-93
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Motion is in order. Mr. Pollard to the principle of the bill. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill number 33 has had second reading, and the bill is referred to committee of the whole. Second reading of bills, Mr. Kakfwi.

Second Reading Of Bill 32: An Act To Amend The Young Offender's Act, No. 2
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Bill 32, an Act to Amend the Young Offender's Act, No. 2, be read for the second time. This Bill would amend the Young Offender's Act to make the Minister of Justice responsible for the entire Act. Thank you.

Second Reading Of Bill 32: An Act To Amend The Young Offender's Act, No. 2
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The Motion is in order, Mr. Kakfwi. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Second reading of bills, Mr. Arvaluk.

Second Reading Of Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Speaker, I move seconded by the honourable Member for Hay River, that Bill 31, an Act to Amend the Student Financial Assistance Act, be read for the second time. Mr. Speaker, this Bill would amend the schedule to the Student Financial Assistance Act, to increase for the 1992-93 subsequent and fiscal years. The maximum aggregate amount of principle, that may be outstanding, in respect to all those made under the Act.

Second Reading Of Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Motion is in order, Mr. Arvaluk, to the principle of the Bill. Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Moved To Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Bill 31 has had second reading, and accordingly, the Bill stands referred to committee of the whole of bills and other matters; tabled document 9-12(2), Strength at Two Levels; tabled document 10-12(2), Reshaping Northern Government; motion 6, discussion on Sobriety Clause and Contribution Agreements; committee report 10-12(2), Special Committee on Constitutional Reform Report, Multilateral Conferences on the Constitution; tabled document 62-12(2), Report on Northwest Territories Operations at Expo 1992 as at May 31, 1992; Update on National Constitutional Reform Negotiations, Minister's statement 82-12(2); committee report 17-12(2), Report on the Review of the 1992-93 main estimates; and Bill 33, Appropriation Act No. 2, 1992-93. Mr. Pudluk, you are in the Chair.

Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Moved To Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Now this committee will come to order. What does this committee wish? Mr. Nerysoo.

Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Moved To Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, if I could recommend that we deal with the main estimates and committee report 17-12(2).

Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Moved To Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Is this committee agreed?

-----agreed

Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Moved To Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. I think that everyone has a copy of the details of the main estimates, 1992-93. I believe they are all on your table. Also, committee report 17-12(2), this little booklet here, is also on your table. I wonder if the Minister of Finance would like to make opening remarks at this time?

1992-93 Main Estimates, Opening Remarks

Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Moved To Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we received on Friday afternoon, the order of appearance requested by the Standing Committee on Finance. We are pleased to comply with that order of appearance, and consequently Ministers are ready to answer questions in that regard. I believe that the first order of appearance was education, and Mr. Arvaluk is ready to proceed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Moved To Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Okay. Mr. Todd. Do you have any opening remarks? Mr. Todd.

Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Moved To Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I may, prior to proceeding by department, there are some general motions that we would like to move forward this afternoon, and then we can move to the Department of Education, if that is okay with the Minister of Finance?

Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Moved To Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Minister.

Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Moved To Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

John Pollard Hay River

I concur, Mr. Chairman, thank you.

Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Moved To Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Todd. Mr. Nerysoo.

Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Moved To Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, are we dealing with general comments at this particular time?

Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Moved To Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

We are dealing with the Finance Committee's comments right now, and maybe later on we can move on to individual Members. Mr. Todd.

Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Moved To Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 910

John Todd Keewatin Central

So, if I may, as I stated two minutes ago, we have some general comments about managing change. There are

about seven general resolutions that we would like to get through the House today. Each of the individual members of the Standing Committee on Finance will deal with the departmental resolutions that come forward. As we stated earlier, the territorial governmental programs were previously designed to follow what we call a southern model, and that is the way we are currently doing things.

However, the statistical evidence, particularly the employment and economic well-being of our people, shows that this model does not appear to work very well in the Northwest Territories. As a result of this, the Assembly and the Cabinet recognized, and have approved, a number of motions for some fundamental change. We need to discard the old model and change the ways we do things, in order to successfully respond to our peoples' needs.

The government is struggling to respond, and the committee is concerned that the government needs more support to manage the changes in Reshaping Northern Government. We are concerned that the desired results may not be achieved in a reasonable time span, and there is somewhat of a sense of urgency. The people affected by the desired changes, have not yet been consulted, prepared, or provided suitable direction, training or support. As a result, the need for change is misunderstood and often resisted by the bureaucracy, no matter how well intentioned they may be.

While coercive change may be fast, there is no buy-in to the process. For example, we in the Legislative Assembly, and by extension the people in the North, still do not know what the plans and priorities of the government are. The civil service seems equally in the dark, and somewhat misguided. Participating change is slower, however, there is a buy-in, a desire to cooperate.

We know that there is a diversive opinion in this House. However, it is up to this Assembly to provide the vision, and the government to carry it out as soon as possible. This Assembly previously approved a motion for a one week strategic planning workshop, to develop a shared vision of what good government looks like. This was to be done and completed in conjunction with the 1992-93 main estimates review. The government has recommended this be undertaken by the Reshaping Northern Government Working Group, made up of three Ministers and three ordinary Members. We have no argument with this.

Motion to Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried

However, limited action has occurred to date, and I think there is a need to move that up. Therefore, Mr. Chairman, if I may, I would like to move our first motion of the day. I move that the Committee recommends that the Reshaping Northern Government Working Group complete the previously moved strategic planning workshop by the beginning of the new fiscal year. Goals of the workshop should include: 1) to develop a consensus on a new government model; 2) to implement the fundamental changes required effectively; and 3) to implement the changes on a timely basis.

Bill 31: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Moved To Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 911

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion. Before I ask for the vote, I have to have a quorum, I do not have a quorum right now. Question has been called. All of those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The motion is in relationship to the cost of the civil service. The Standing Committee on Finance is concerned about the rising cost of the civil service, and it must be brought under control. If it continues to spiral and accelerate at the pace it is accelerating, there will be no money left in which to deliver programs to the people that need it most.

The previous Assembly approved a motion to control government expenditures by reducing total person years by five percent within a two year period. This was a very specific clear direction. The government's response was that organizational changes may yield person year reductions, was somewhat disappointing to the committee.

While there has been a one percent decrease in the overall number of person years in the government, the committee believes that the government has not gone enough in reducing the costs of the bureaucracy. The committee feels strongly that the government should be put on notice that the Assembly expects this motion to be followed, and expects bureaucracy to shrink in its numbers.

Motion to Adopt Recommendation 2, Carried

With that Mr. Chairman, I would like to move the second motion. I move that the committee recommends that the government review options to reduce the costs of the bureaucracy for presentation with their 1993-94 main estimates, that the government review by October, 1993 the total employee enumeration package to develop a northern package which is appropriate for today's environment, that the government control its expenditures by reducing total person years in departments, boards and agencies by five percent within the two years, and that the Assembly not approve any overall increase in the budget for salaries, wages and benefits in the 1993-94 main estimates. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the order. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, this is just a matter of procedure as some of these recommendations, because they are recommendations to the government, we would like to ask some clarification questions. It is not that we have any differences with the recommendations, but it is to seek further clarification. For example, Mr. Chairman, on the first recommendation, to develop a consensus on new governmental models, the clarification would be, how would that be an absence? How does that fit in to the Constitutional Development Committee that we have, how does that fit into the leadership model of developing a consensus for a new western style model of government? These are the types of things that I just want to get some clarification on. How we can ask or ask for clarification on those issues? This step was just an example. Thank you.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Madam Premier, I understand your concern, you should be allowed a question. There is a motion on the floor at the moment. After this, if some Ministers would like clarification, and after we have passed this motion, we can do that. Mr. Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

I have no problem explaining the motion or understanding the motion, and I am prepared to debate it. At the present time, I would like to see it go through first. I would like to finish the seven motions ,and then we can come back to further discussion, or we can discuss it in committee. It does not matter to me what the process is.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

I think it is something, Mr. Chairman, that is a procedural issue. I would like to see if there is a possibility before the motion is passed, or as a recommendation is written out, how do we gain more information or clarity? That is all I am asking.

It is useless to me, if a motion passes, and then we come back to it. It is the procedure that we have square away, that is all.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

I think the Standing Committee on Finance had tried to explain as much as possible in writing before each recommendation. If the government wants more clarification before they move, I will allow the government to ask questions, before moving the recommendations.

Mr. Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, could I ask if that particular ruling also applies to other Members who are not part of the Standing Committee on Finance, to ask questions? I believe procedurally, it is normal that all Members are allowed to ask questions.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Yes, Mr. Nerysoo. Mr. Todd. Number two has been moved and is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Recommendation number two is carried. Mr. Todd.

---Carried

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John Todd Keewatin Central

I am not that familiar with the procedural aspects of things. If we want to debate it, it does not matter to me, we can debate it anytime. If there is a requirement for further clarification by the Government Leader, I would be prepared to meet with her at her convenience.

On the third motion, hire north, and the feeling amongst the Standing Committee on Finance, is we have to find new and creative ways to ensure that more northerners are placed within the civil service.

Motion to Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried

Motion number three, I move that the committee recommends that the Assembly establish a goal of increasing the number of aboriginal people in the civil service to 50 percent, or more, by 1997.

Further, the committee recommends that the government review options and develop an action plan with the 1993-94 main estimates to accomplish this goal, including job reclassification, to use talents available in the north, a development of career paths and advertising recruitment in the south, on an exception basis only.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, you motion is in order. To the motion. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I would like to have the thoughts on what would be the exception of basis only in the south. For example, on certain job functions that we know we do not have, people such as teachers, engineers, doctors or nurses, how would that work in the exceptional basis only? Is there a category of people that you would expect a better retention of, or better involvement in? A little more clarification. Thank you.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

I think that we said it clearly enough earlier on in the week, when we talked about the need for political direction as it relates to southern hires, not a bureaucratic one. Everybody understands that there are fields of expertise that we do not have in this country, however, there are a number of jobs out there, in our opinion, the committee's opinion, the bureaucracy, for expediency sake, looks to the south rather than the north.

What we are suggesting here is that while we recognize that there are some skill levels that we do not have in this part of the country, whether it is doctors, or engineers, or whatever, we also recognize that there are a number of people out there, if we can redefine some of the requirements for these jobs, put them in the jobs, that they will able to accomplish the jobs.

If the Government Leader wants me to give her a list, she will have to give me some more time. I think she knows full well what we are trying to accomplish here in this resolution.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I hope that any questions that I might have not be taken as argumentative, but rather as clarification. Because I believe that if we go along, and we have all dealt with these issues for a long time, if we can narrow them down in scope, it is certainly very helpful. Thank you.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

That is what we are attempting to do in this resolution, Mr. Chairman. We are attempting to say that we have to redefine some of the jobs that are currently being advertised, so that northern people can get them. We need to develop a career path for some of our people so that they can move up the ladder. We talked about the need for, if we are going to hire in the south, term positions, and there be some kind of training component attached to it to see if northerners can eventually fill these positions.

There is clearly a recognition, particularly, in the professional field, that we do not have some of that skill level at this present time. However, in my opinion, as Chairman of the Standing of Committee on Finance, it is unacceptable to continue to be hiring people from the south in jobs, like secretarial jobs, or apprenticeship jobs, etc., and it happens all across the territories. All of us have examples, myself included, that is what we are trying to say here. That is all.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion, Mr. Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to first indicate that I support the recommendation, as I indicated before, in asking the government to consider developing a northern hire policy.

I would like to make a couple of comments, though, that should be considered in dealing with the recommendation. One, this government should make a greater effort ensuring that we recruit people we educate, who we pay to be educated. In other words, whenever you are recruiting for teachers, that there are northern students who are going to southern institutions that are going to receive their degrees immediately after a recruitment effort, that you should make great efforts to try to recruit those students because they have an understanding of the north itself. They have an appreciation of some of the differences of cultures, and they have probably a greater appreciation for those differences of cultures.

I hope that in reviewing this particular recommendation, we will some how make efforts to ensure that we recruit students and professionals, who have had a great deal of their education paid by this government, and by the people of the Northwest Territories. I just wanted to make that particular comment. I do support the recommendation that is being made.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Mr. Todd.

---Carried

Motion to Adopt Recommendation 4, Carried

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will try to be less defensive in my comments with respect to the motions. The next motion, number four, is measuring output and effect. The government has been asked to provide specific and measurable performance indicators with their budget request for almost ten years, at least in the information I read.

The committee is pleased that the government agrees with this motion, and is reviewing its implementation. However, and I want to stress, that the committee is adamant that resources should no longer be provided for programs that cannot demonstrate their worth. We have to find a way to quantify how we are spending our money.

Throughout the support and the standards, the committee has requested specific minimum performance reporting standards from each government department and agency. These are measures that the committee believes are important indicators of departmental success.

It is also time for this Assembly to get tough on the need for accountability. We have all talked about it, on both sides of the Assembly, therefore, I would like to move that the committee recommend that the Assembly not approve any additional resources in the 1993 main estimates for programs that do not identify planned accomplishments, provide measurements of output and effect on a historic current and projected basis.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

If I may, just for a moment, and I do not want to sound too glib. We spend $183 million on running our schools, we spend $30 million on running Arctic College, we spent $43 million on the capital estimates last year, and we are told that only 25 percent of our kids come out of the school with grade 12. All we are saying is that there has to be some way to measure, and to ensure, that we are getting value for our money. That is what this resolution is about. This is just one example of what we are talking about. Thank you.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. Could I ask, Mr. Chairman, the committee Chair, did this particular matter also deal with the matter of assessing policies?

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Yes, it also dealt with policies as it relates to spending money. In other words, the policy of parks, we spent $1.3 million on a park in Lake Harbour. We asked the government to quantify it, there was no argument with the park, and we supported it. Was the policy correct, is the expenditure correct, and what is the net return to northerners with respect to that expenditure?

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion. Question has been called. All of those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried. Mr. Todd.

---Carried

Motion to Adopt Recommendation 5, Carried

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Motions five and six, the value for money in the audit program. The value for money audit of the N.W.T. Housing Corporation, demonstrated last year a severe shortcoming in its management operations. It has taken almost five years to obtain the benefit, and other value for money audits, and that is in the Department of Health, which by the way, has not even been tabled in this House.

The value for money audit of the Department of Economic Development, which was approved by an Assembly motion in March of 1991, still has not commenced yet. The Assembly requires, in our opinion, a more routine basis for obtaining a second, independent opinion of departments and agencies managed funds. This committee, and the Public Accounts Committee, will be working together to identify specific concerns that guide the audit plan. The audit plan should be continued into the life of succeeding Assemblies, and should also cover Crown corporations.

I have two motions on this, Mr. Chairman. Motion five, I move that the Committee recommends that a broad scope value for money audit plan, on an ongoing basis, be established by the Legislative Assembly, based on recommendations of the Standing Committee on Finance and Public Accounts covering all government departments and agencies.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All of those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried. Mr. Todd.

---Carried

Motion to Adopt Recommendation 6, Carried

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John Todd Keewatin Central

On this same issue, motion six, I move that the committee recommend that the government make revisions to the Financial Administration Act to require a strong accountability regime, by government Crown corporations, similar to part of the federal Financial Administration Act, including the requirement for value for money audits, in other words, Crown corporations should be audited.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All of those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried. Mr. Todd.

---Carried

Motion to Adopt Recommendation 7, Carried

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John Todd Keewatin Central

The last one of the general motions. Motion 7 is on government accountability and the legislative action paper. In March 1992, the Minister of Justice tabled in the Legislative Assembly, a paper entitled "Government Accountability, a Legislative Action Paper on Access to Government." The committee supports the creation of an office of an ombudsman, independently reporting to the Legislative Assembly to provide an appeal process where all statutory avenues for complaint or objection have failed. This office, combined with the Access to Information will help to protect the rights and cultural integrity of all of our people. With that I would like to move motion 7-12(2).

I move that the government recommends that the proposed access to government legislation be advanced for incorporation into the 1993-94 main estimates.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Todd, I believe that you are recommending to the committee, not to the government. Could you make that correct, Mr. Todd?

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John Todd Keewatin Central

I must be dreaming again, Mr. Chairman, I am sorry. I move that the committee recommend that the proposed access to government legislation be advanced for incorporation into the 1993-94 main estimates.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, your motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All of those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Chairman for the Standing Committee on Finance, is that the conclusion to your general recommendations? Mr. Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Right. That is correct, Mr. Chairman, that is the end of the general recommendations, and the reason that we used this format is so that hopefully we can speed the whole process up when we get into the budget.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Now we move to general comments on the budget as a whole. General comments. Mr. Koe.

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Mr. Chairman, I would like to report progress.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

I did not hear the motion.

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Sorry. I move that we report progress.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

The motion is in order, and not debatable. All of those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Now we will report progress.

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 19, report of the committee of the whole. Mr. Chairman.

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Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 33 and committee report 17-12(2), and we wish to report progress with seven motions being adopted. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the chairman of committee of the whole be concurred with. Thank you.

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Is there a seconder to the motion? Mr. Ningark. Motion is in order. All of those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item Number 19, third reading of bills. Item Number 20, Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Item 20: Orders Of The Day
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Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, there will be a meeting of the Special Committee on Constitutional Reform immediately after adjournment. There will also be a meeting of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts at 6:00 p.m. Meetings for tomorrow morning, at 9:00 a.m. of Caucus and at 10:30 of the Ordinary Members' Caucus. Orders of the day for Tuesday, September 15, 1992.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Oral Questions

6. Written Questions

7. Returns to Written Questions

8. Replies to Opening Address

9. Replies to Budget Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

18. Second Reading of Bills.

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and

Other Matters

- Tabled Document 9-12(2)

- Tabled Document 10-12(2)

- Motion 6

- Committee Report 10-12(2)

- Tabled Document 62-12(2)

- Minister's Statement 82-12(2)

- Committee Report 17-12(2)

- Bill 33

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

22. Orders of the Day

Item 20: Orders Of The Day
Item 20: Orders Of The Day

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. Tuesday, September 15, 1992.

---ADJOURNMENT