Item 14, notices of motion. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Friday, September 18, 1992 I will move the following motion: I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Keewatin Central that not withstanding Rule 4(1) that the sitting hours for Thursday, September 17, 1992 be 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. and, Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time I will be seeking unanimous consent to proceed with this motion today.

Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Motion 31-12(2) will be stood down until tomorrow. Item 16, motions. Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to deal with my motion on moving the Housing Survey into committee of the whole today, please.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to deal with his motion. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS the Housing Survey of 1992 has been tabled in the House;

AND WHEREAS this document clearly identifies the housing needs of the Northwest Territories;

AND WHEREAS there is a significant urgency that this document be discussed due to the alarming situation of meeting the housing needs of the territories;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife South, that tabled document 89-12(2) titled the Housing Needs Survey 1992 be moved into the committee of the whole for discussion.

Motion is in order, Mr. Morin. To the motion. Seconder. Question. Concluding debate, Mr. Morin. The seconder for Yellowknife South, I do not see the seconder here. There you are. You are right, I apologize.

---Laughter

To the motion. Mr. Nerysoo. Question is being called. All of those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 16, motions. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am seeking unanimous consent to proceed with my motion on the amendment to the sitting hours today.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Proceed, please, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you.

WHEREAS there are a number of Members who have expressed a desire to attend the funeral of the late Bishop Piche;

AND WHEREAS out of respect for the late Bishop Piche;

AND WHEREAS to permit Members to attend the funeral;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Keewatin Central, that not withstanding Rule 4(1) that the sitting hours for Thursday, September 17, 1992 be 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m.

Motion is in order. Question is being called. Seconder to the motion. Point of order, Mr. Zoe.

Mr. Zoe, I did not hear a nay. So I did not respond to the nay. In future I would ask all Members that they could be very, very sure that they are very loud with their nays because I did not hear it. So you have no point of order. Seconder of the motion. Question is being called. To the motion. Mr. Zoe.

To the motion. Question has been called. The mover has the opportunity to conclude debate. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: tabled document 9-12(2), Strength at Two Levels; tabled document 10-12(2), Reshaping Northern Government; Motion 6-12(2), Discussion on Sobriety Clause in Contribution Agreements; committee report 10-12(2), Special Committee on Constitutional Reform Report on the Multilateral Conferences on the Constitution; tabled document 62-12(2), Report on Northwest Territories Operations at Expo '92 as at May 31, 1992; Minister's statement 82-12(2), Update on National Constitutional Reform Negotiations; committee report 17-12(2), Report on the Review of the 1992-93 Main Estimates; Bill 33, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1992-93; Bill 9, Insurance Act (A): Minister's statement 90-12(2); tabled document 89-12(2); and committee report 18-12(2), with Mr. Ningark in the chair.

Thank you. The committee will now come to order. We have a number of items of business in the committee of the whole. What is the committee's wish? Mr. Pollard.

If Mr. Nerysoo concurs, perhaps the discussion on the Ministers' statement with regard to housing, Mr. Chairman. The tabled document, the housing needs study. Thank you.

There is a suggestion on the floor that we deal with the Minister's tabled document. What is the wish of the committee? Is that agreed? Thank you.

Agreed.

Mr. Morin, do you have any comments on your statement?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As Members heard earlier today, yesterday we received word from the federal Minister of Housing, Honourable Elmer MacKay, that he was unable to get support from his federal colleagues to reinstate our funding for new capital costs in housing.

What this boils down to is, if we cannot get reinstatement of that funding, instead of building 372 units next year, we will only be able to build 153 units. If you spread that around the Northwest Territories, 153 units is not very many. That represents approximately $22 million.

We have to continue to try to get our funding reinstated. We have to continue to work together to try to solve this issue, or else we are going to have to try and find money from wherever we can find it.

In the housing needs survey, done in 1992, it is clearly spelled out in there that we are 3,584 housing units short in the Northwest Territories. That is a 14 percent jump since the 1990 survey, even though we did build 800 units.

We are constantly, since we have got the message back in March, hoping to stop the federal government from reducing our funding, and we will continue to do so.

Mr. Chairman, I will be very interested to hear, and take any advice from the Members that they can give me, their remarks on this issue. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Are there any general comments related to the item on the table? Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Firstly, despite the news itself about the unwillingness of the Government of Canada to fund the social housing programs at the levels they have been funding it, I would like to thank the Minister for providing us with some information about this particular matter earlier today.

I know that the Minister also indicated to us, earlier this year, that the potential was there for problems. I recall the Minister of Finance also indicating this, however, we have to find some way of defending, what you might say is a serious need, a social need in our communities. We are not so fortunate up in the Northwest Territories to have a private housing market that is substantive as most other jurisdictions across the country.

The other point, is that we are only in the midst of trying to catch up with meeting the needs of the people of the Northwest Territories in housing. We all know from the last survey that was done, there were 3,000 units required. That is based on the population as it existed about three years ago.

I have not reviewed the details of our housing needs survey. Without looking at them, I will bet you that there has been more increases in need across the Northwest Territories. Those expressions, in terms of numbers, and in terms of the figures that we have been using to calculate needs of the communities have since gone up since our community survey.

Based on that alone, my view is that we are probably looking at substantially more than the 3,000 units, just to catch up to the need some two years ago.

Mr. Chairman, what is disappointing in this whole process, is that we have tried in the north to find all kinds of alternatives to respond to the housing needs in our communities. We have tried to encourage private developers, in those areas where the possibilities are available to develop a private market. In fact, we have tried to encourage that in this House and in government by getting out of the business of providing housing. We tried to encourage the development of a housing market.

We have tried to encourage a reduction in costs to the government, the public housing, and the O & M costs by providing for home ownership assistance and allowing our communities to develop private home owners, reducing overall costs to governments. We have tried to find ways of housing the young, single mothers or parents, and we have tried ways of housing the elders so that detached housing is made available to larger families. This, Mr. Chairman, is not an easy task. It never has been and we all acknowledge that.

I think that, despite all our efforts, there has still been a need for the federal government to participate in providing financial resources for the people of the north to ensure that we provide housing to the residents of the Northwest Territories. I must say, Mr. Chairman, that it is difficult to acknowledge how the Government of Canada, through its own reductions and through its own decision to reduce social housing, can ignore its responsibility for housing those who are in need and for providing housing through its own legal jurisdictional responsibility to aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories, and particularly the status Indian and Inuit.

I say that, because it is important that we recognize that fact. However, like all other programs it seems, Mr. Chairman, that the Government of Canada does not want to live up to its responsibility. Because they transferred the administrative responsibility to us, they walk away from their legal, constitutional responsibility for aboriginal people. That, for me, is a decision that should not be acceptable, and this government and this Assembly and those leaders of the aboriginal people should be insistent that the Government of Canada live up to its obligations.

I know that they will probably try to find a way out by saying that they transferred some administrative responsibility, but, the fact is, they still have the jurisdictional responsibility for aboriginal people and that they cannot transfer. That is clear. I do want to deal with one other responsibility that they have and that is for those who need housing, those who are in need and we know that in some cases, there are situations where there is availability in the housing market.

Like my colleagues from Yellowknife, my colleagues from Hay River and Fort Smith, and even in Iqaluit and Rankin Inlet, where they are just beginning to develop a housing market, and in other areas, they have had it longer, like Yellowknife. The fact is, the ordinary person on the street who is a single parent, or the single employed person in the family cannot afford to go out and buy a house. The prices are not at a stage where those people can afford their own homes.

So, they have to rely, Mr. Chairman, on the efforts of our government, the Housing Corporation to find some way of providing those kinds of units for single people or for those who are unable to purchase their own units. Now, I do not want to get into a long discussion, Mr. Chairman, but I urge this Assembly, my colleagues, the Cabinet Members, the Government Leader and the Minister and, I hope, with our assistance and our support, that we find a way of encouraging the Government of Canada to provide what program and what support we do not necessarily take for granted.

The people in the communities cannot take it for granted that they are going to have a private house. For young single parents or elders, they cannot take it for granted that we are going to build them a unit unless we have the money to do it. They cannot take it for granted that the communities are going to come up with the financial resources, and the private market is not going to come up with the financial resources.

In fact, in most communities, the financial institutions are not prepared to provide mortgages because in terms of a market, they just do not seem to see our communities as being communities that can provide a good private market for home owners. So, in that context, I think we have to get on with trying to find a way of encouraging the Government of the Northwest Territories, the Government Leader and the Minister in finding some solution to this significant dilemma that we are in.

I know, and I must recognize the work that the Minister and the government has put into trying to maintain the financial resources. I want to recognize the work of the staff in trying to make the presentations that were necessary. However, unfortunately, we are faced with a decision by the Government of Canada that may cause, in the long term, more harm than good and even worse housing shortages in the Northwest Territories. Worse than we are now. As it is, we are in bad shape, but that situation is not going to be very helpful.

I just want to encourage other Members to voice their concern and to find a way, at the end of our discussions on this particular matter, to give direction as Members and to participate in trying to somehow ensure that our Cabinet and this House, this Assembly, can see a successful solution to this particular dilemma that we are in. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Before I recognize the next speaker I would like to ask Mr. Minister if he has any response to the comments made by Mr. Nerysoo.