Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Only recently, the talks and discussions have taken place with the Department of Health. I do agree with the Member from Thebacha.

Thank you. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

If I could get one further clarification, if the Minister agrees. How is she going to address this funding request to build an alcohol and drug treatment centre, which she's proposing as a nine-bed facility, with the absence of funding from the Department of Health for a regional health centre?

Thank you. Madam Minister.

That is something that I have to talk to Mr. Pollard about. We have not discussed it in detail but we have made an agreement that, if it is going to save dollars for the government, there is no reason why we shouldn't be looking at combining the two facilities.

Thank you. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

So is it the intention of the department, Mr. Chairman, through you to the Minister, to place a hold on planning funding for this alcohol and drug treatment centre until the Minister talks to Mr. Pollard to ensure the planning is reflective of what both departments want to achieve?

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do know that the Keewatin Regional Health Board has a needs assessment being carried out in the Keewatin. I do agree that I would have to talk with Mr. Pollard to find out whether or not we are going to be combining the facilities or not. Up until the health assessment is completed, there is not a whole lot we can do within our department. Thank you.

Thank you. General comments. We are reviewing the 1994-95 capital estimates of Social Services. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I believe the general comment that should be made about this budget is that, in spite of the pressing social needs in all parts of the Northwest Territories -- which I think were very clearly spelled out in the report of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services -- and in comparison to the total capital budget, this department seems to have a very small capital budget. I just want to make that comment.

Unfortunately, these social issues are not going to go away. We are not going to get fewer elders or fewer requirements for elder facilities. We are not going to get fewer children in need, and neither are requirements for treatment programs going to diminish. My general comment would be that it is unfortunate that the department does not seem to have been successful in marshalling the data necessary to present and justify capital needs, in comparison to other priorities of the government. I think that's where the Standing Committee on Finance's recommendation comes in, that the data has to be put together to lay the groundwork for these capital plans.

I only have to look at the Baffin region where, for some reason, the necessary work was not done to lay the groundwork for the long-awaited group home. So, once again, it has slipped from the capital plan. I believe the department is now committed to getting that work done. There was some question about whether it was a regional or a headquarters responsibility and it fell between the cracks. This is an example of a pressing need that should not be overlooked because the necessary homework wasn't done. I'm hopeful that will be fixed up in the coming year.

Mr. Chairman, on the issue of alcohol and drug treatment centres, I think it should be pointed out that the department appears to be acting somewhat inconsistently, in the Inuvik and the Keewatin regions, on the issue of an alcohol and drug treatment centre. The response of the Standing Committee on Finance got to its recommendation last year was that there had been agreement reached to integrate the proposed alcohol and drug treatment facility with the planned Inuvik regional hospital.

The Standing Committee on Finance was given that commitment, in response to last year's recommendations that agreement had been reached between the Departments of Health and Social Services. That was reported to the Standing Committee on Finance and I think that's in keeping with the recommendation that there are advantages, economies of scale, and it is helpful to have medical services readily available preparing for treatment, or in treatment.

Yet, the same department has not yet been able to make that commitment in the Keewatin region. Just to underscore what Mrs. Marie-Jewell said, if it makes sense in the Inuvik region -- and I think we all believe that it does make sense -- then it should also make sense in the Keewatin region to integrate those facilities to achieve economies of scale, savings and efficiency. I just think that the sooner this is spelled out to the people of the Keewatin, the better. Right now, anyone looking at the capital plan would assume that there would be a stand-alone facility and when you build up public expectations, sometimes it is hard to change them further on down the road.

I've noted the Minister's commitment to seriously explore this issue and her comment that it should await the community needs assessment, which I think is acceptable. But I think what Members of the Standing Committee on Finance are recommending is that, as soon as possible, the government's intention and desire, in principle, to combine these facilities should be communicated to the health board and the people of the Keewatin so that expectations are not raised that there will be a stand-alone facility.

I think that nothing more needs to be said on this issue. Hopefully, by this time next year, we'll find that the necessary groundwork has been done so that the appearance of a stand-alone facility in the capital plan will no longer prevail. I do believe it would be premature to start designing a facility or even pre-designing a facility until that community needs assessment has been completed and the feasibility of integrating with a health facility is explored. I think the Minister has basically agreed with that position. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. General comments. Mr. Arvaluk.

Mr. Chairman, thank you. I don't have comments like Mr. Patterson, but I have several questions.

Mr. Arvaluk, I apologize, I believe that Madam Minister would like to respond to Mr. Patterson's comments. Then I'll recognize you after that, Mr. Arvaluk. Madam Minister.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Just a brief comment in response to Mr. Patterson's general comments on raising the expectations of the residents of the Keewatin. As the Minister responsible for Social Services, I will not initiate anything like this unless it is requested at the community level. The reason we are talking about having this nine-bed facility for Rankin Inlet combined with the health centre is because the chairperson of the health board of the Keewatin requested to have these discussions take place between Health and Social Services.

I want to make it very clear to this committee, as the Minister responsible, I will not initiate anything on my own, unless I have some support at the community level. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Minister. Thank you for your patience, Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm very patient. Although I recognize and appreciate that there is a budget for alcohol and drug programs and a treatment centre in the Keewatin, my several questions are not exactly along the same lines as Mrs. Marie-Jewell. But, there are the same principles to my questions. That is, during the budget process and the SCOF deliberation of the Minister's submission of capital plans, there were no plans set in place that said it should be Rankin Inlet. It was under Keewatin various. I appreciated that because of the philosophy behind the alcohol and drug centre, to be in a more civilized and better atmosphere for mental health purposes.

For example, even in Yellowknife, we have an alcohol treatment centre away from the city so they will not be distracted by this metropolitan-type lifestyle when they are trying to recover from this illness. I am surprised to see that the Keewatin alcohol and drug treatment centre is slated to be in Rankin Inlet. In the Keewatin there are already two dry communities, Arviat and Coral Harbour, where you would think a mental health worker or the Minister responsible for Social Services would consider these more appropriate and effective places to treat patients.

I guess my first question is, has the Minister already decided this should be in Rankin Inlet and, if so, if it will be annexed to the health centre? The second question is, since the health centre for Rankin Inlet is not in the budget to date -- although it is being discussed in ongoing talks, an evaluation is taking place, and there is a feasibility assessment taking place with the community -- will we have to wait before the health centre is built before an alcohol and drug centre can be integrated? We don't know how long that will take.

The Keewatin region has patients coming into Yellowknife all the time, and I think the Keewatin deserves to get one as soon as possible even if the health centre is not built in the immediate future. My second question is, will we have to wait before the health centre is built before we can get an alcohol and drug centre?

Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. I guess the matter you are referring to is on page 13-11 of the capital estimates. That would be the appropriate time to ask these questions. However, I will allow Madam Minister to reply.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. During the review of the Social Services capital budget, the Member for Aivilik asked me if this facility could go under Keewatin various. That was his question during the Standing Committee on Finance review. If my memory serves me correctly, I remember responding, "Yes, it can be under Keewatin various." As far as a decision being made, that decision has not been made, as I responded to you during the Standing Committee on Finance review.

Your second question about if the Keewatin is going to have to wait for this facility to be built so it is built at the same time as the health facility, there are options that can be looked at. In a similar way, the schools are built without gymnasiums with plans to have the gymnasium part of it built in later years. If we can be very creative with this, we can go ahead and make a design so that this building can go ahead with the plan of having it combined in later years with the health facility.

These are the things that can be looked at. I will not decide that on my own, it is something that will have to be discussed at the community level. Thank you.

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister said the next step should await a community needs assessment. After the community needs assessment shows a desire to have a program in a dry community, like Coral Harbour or Arviat, is the Minister open to considering another location then if the community assessment wants it that way?

Thank you. The Honourable Minister for Social Services.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm open to options that the region and the communities consider best for their region. Personally, I don't agree with placing this facility in a dry community. To me, there would be an added cost in transportation. I am assuming that if we put the facility in a dry community, it is going to be servicing other communities that do consume alcohol. Where there is alcohol consumed, is where the problems are. I am open to options if requested and supported by the region. Thank you.

General comments. The honourable Member for Aivilik.