Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The need in every community varies. In this year, approximately 30 per cent of our budget is for the rent supp program, which was public housing before, and 70 per cent of our budget will address home ownership.

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

So, the 30 per cent then, is also for building new public units?

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes.

Thank you. Fort Smith, total

region, $4.514 million.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Inuvik, total region, $5.144 million.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Baffin, total region, $7.183 million.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Keewatin, total region, $6.390 million.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Kitikmeot, total region, $4.599 million.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you, total activity, $32 million. Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Chairman, I would just like to address my own constituency. I don't know how the needs survey was done. On the reserve, there are something like 43 houses that need to be replaced because of the unsafe conditions of the units. There is no running water, sewage, even the lighting was not up to standard. The houses were fire hazards. But, because they had no allocation for housing, most of the people are still living in those kinds of conditions. I know lives were lost last year and the year before because of the lack of good heating system, and things like that.

I thought maybe I'd mention that last year, after the needs survey was redone, the community did identify the need for more houses, but the allocation was already determined so the reserve ended up with no units at all. I believe, however, that after the need was identified, I'm not too sure, but I think two units were allocated. I want to express that the need is far greater than what it seems.

The other problem we have, Mr. Speaker, is we have a lot of old units, northern rental units, in Fort Providence that need to be upgraded substantially. I would think it would save the government, in the long run, if those old rental units, if they aren't replaced, are improved to the point where at least they're heat efficient so it would be less costly to maintain those units. Thank you.

Total activity, $32 million. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a constituency matter, with regard to the needs survey. I would like to know how it was done in my constituency, particularly in Fort Liard. There are some people living in tents and even polyethylene. I showed the Minister some pictures of one of the elder ladies who was living under plastic this summer. It is not a very pleasant situation. Unfortunately, the Minister couldn't come to my constituency this fall, on account of fog. He would have been able to see the conditions that some of the people are living in.

I would like to question the needs survey. How could the needs survey overlook a situation like this? Another young women with two children has been living in a tent all year round, for the last two or three years. Situations like that still exist in my constituency. That is the reason I question the needs survey.

It is a technical method for deciding need. They go into a community and count numbers and people and decide who needs what, based on numbers. But, you are dealing with human lives, and that is what you are providing housing for, not numbers and surveys. I would like to know, from the Minister, since he is not able to come to the communities, I would like him to see if he could provide the information on how the survey was done? Perhaps it wasn't done as well as it should have been to allow situations like that to exist. That's a concern that I have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. I apologize to the Minister. The Minister may want have wanted to respond to Mr. Gargan's question earlier. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In response to Mr. Gargan, we approximately meet the need of ten per cent of those people that are in need. We don't have sufficient funding to meet all the needs in every community. In your communities, for example, on the reserve it was set at three for the need. Then the survey was redone and it went to 12. We allocated two units to that reserve this past summer to try to address that need. That's normal. Without adequate funding from the federal government we could not address all the needs of the communities in the north. We are approximately 3,600 units behind. In Mr. Antoine's case, in Fort Liard, he has shown me the pictures of people living in tents, or plastic covers. I know the need is great in Liard. The need for Liard is approximately 33 units. Last year two units were allocated, I believe.

For Members' information, the needs survey was done by community members. It was actually done by the people in the community with the assistance of the Housing Corporation. I wanted to make sure it was done that way so the surveys have credibility. People were paid so much a household to go and do the surveys. I would be happy to give the Members a copy of that survey, a blank copy, for example, to show them how it's done. I know they even came to my house where I'm temporarily living in Yellowknife and did a survey of us. It was the most comprehensive survey ever done by the Housing Corporation. It was done by the people in the communities in their own languages, as well. We have to find out what the need is so the allocations are done fairly and according to need. That's what we did. Thank you.

Thank you. Total activity, $32 million. Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed