This is page numbers 527 - 560 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Question 296-12(3): Discussing Staff Housing Strategy Concerns With Mlas Versus Constituents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 531

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Personnel. In the Minister's statement on February 18 regarding the long-term staff housing strategy, the Minister stated and I quote, "Finally we welcome the Assembly's review of the strategy and want Members to know that our staff is prepared to sit down with each Member of this Legislature to review the concerns of individual constituents, house by house, or case by case." I am very pleased that the Minister and his staff are willing to discuss these issues, however late, on a cow by case basis. This offer bodes well to more open government. However, why is the Minister's staff willing to sit down with each MLA to discuss individual constituents' concerns, rather than taking the time to sit down and meet with each constituent in his/her own home?

Question 296-12(3): Discussing Staff Housing Strategy Concerns With Mlas Versus Constituents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 531

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 296-12(3): Discussing Staff Housing Strategy Concerns With Mlas Versus Constituents
Question 296-12(3): Discussing Staff Housing Strategy Concerns With Mlas Versus Constituents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 531

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We made the offer because there are individual cases which have come to our attention and legitimate concerns which are anomalies that we need to deal with. There are cases where, for instance, power bills are unusually high and tenants have brought those to our attention. We have other cases where commitments were understood to have been made to certain tenants only to be changed, such as the case as the Member for Iqaluit brought forward last week. The reason for making the offer, as well, is to bring to the attention of MLAs and to the tenants that they have written letters in which they make certain assertions. For instance, in my review of letters there are two which I remember of government employees who say they live in staff housing and, in fact, they do not. There are cases where very minimal rent is being paid by people who are paid very good salaries. In the course of the outcry we think there are extreme cases which the government should property deal with. Also, there are extreme cases of people overstating the case and not presenting the full facts which should be brought to the attention of MLAs. We think this is the proper way to do it. This is the reason the suggestion was made. Thank you.

Return To Question 296-12(3): Discussing Staff Housing Strategy Concerns With Mlas Versus Constituents
Question 296-12(3): Discussing Staff Housing Strategy Concerns With Mlas Versus Constituents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 531

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 296-12(3): Discussing Staff Housing Strategy Concerns With Mlas Versus Constituents
Question 296-12(3): Discussing Staff Housing Strategy Concerns With Mlas Versus Constituents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 532

Fred Koe Inuvik

To me, it makes more sense to talk directly to the tenants to clear up these misunderstandings or overstatements. Will the Minister make a commitment to have his staff available to meet with each tenant to discuss individual concerns?

Supplementary To Question 296-12(3): Discussing Staff Housing Strategy Concerns With Mlas Versus Constituents
Question 296-12(3): Discussing Staff Housing Strategy Concerns With Mlas Versus Constituents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 532

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 296-12(3): Discussing Staff Housing Strategy Concerns With Mlas Versus Constituents
Question 296-12(3): Discussing Staff Housing Strategy Concerns With Mlas Versus Constituents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 532

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, yes. We are offering to do it at this level with the MLAs so that the MLAs who have specific cases, which they have questions or concerns about, can be dealt with on a case by case individual basis. The tenants who have raised the concerns will also be dealt with by the appropriate staff in the communities and regions. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 296-12(3): Discussing Staff Housing Strategy Concerns With Mlas Versus Constituents
Question 296-12(3): Discussing Staff Housing Strategy Concerns With Mlas Versus Constituents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 532

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 532

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Personnel. I would have hoped this issue would have been dead by now but, dearly, it is not. Today, all Members received a letter from David Sudlovenick from Pond Inlet about the now staff housing policy. It says, 'This policy, to be blunt and to the point, is irresponsible, dishonourable and has been hastily executed because any reasonable person can see it will destroy the eastern Arctic." Mr. Speaker, this has been an issue for the past week. On February 16, 1993, the Minister was interviewed on CBC radio and Members now have a transcript as Tabled Document 38-12(3). The transcripts show the Minister stated that this policy has been well accepted by the public. Recognizing that a record number of petitions opposing this policy have already been tabled in this House and we continue to get letters, and recognizing that there continues to be an outcry from employees and the unions across the territories, can the Minister explain why he has made public statements indicating the policy has been well accepted?

Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 532

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi

Return To Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 532

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, with the exception of a few letters, such as the one the Member is referring to, the overwhelming majority of letters and statements which have been made suggest that employees and the public accept that the government has for some years now begun to move out of staff housing and move toward creating market rents which are equitable and fair across the territories. We are in the middle of finalizing this initiative which was started some 12 years ago. The general sentiment we get from the majority of employees, again through letters and other forms of communication, is that the public and the employees in particular are not debating the intent of the strategy, which is for government to get out of staff housing and for the government to implement equitable market

rents. The focus of the controversy and the criticism is that as a government we are perceived as moving too last. People are asking for more time. This was the intent behind the comments I made at that time. Thank you.

Return To Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 532

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 532

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, recognizing this policy includes a provision whereby the government is going to save a great deal of money if everything goes according to plan, I would like to ask the Minister whether his department has carried out any studies on the potential costs of staff turnover related to the implementation of this policy, which would have the opposite effect? In fact, instead of saving money it is going to cost you more. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 532

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 532

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, it is our view, based on the statistics of the past couple of years, that the percentage of turnovers which this government enjoys or suffers every year is already at about the 20 per cent range. It would almost have to come close to doubling that figure for us to question the financial value of this strategy. It is my view that the removal tariff rules and guidelines set in place a month or two ago, are going to reduce the cost of removals this year. It is going to help substantially. We are also of the view that the majority of government employees are going to begrudgingly accept the strategy we have set out, and that it will be seen, in the course of the next few months, that the job prospects in southern Canada are dismal, to say the least.

I have asked for an informal check of the situation in other provinces. It is dismal. There are other governments which are in financially difficult times. The fact is, we are a country suffering financially. We are in a recession even though it is recorded as being over. In the end, employees will see that strategy as a fair and equitable move to put them on par with their other neighbours and friends in the communities they live in. Everyone has to pay a fair, equitable market rent and they have to accept that. It may have been better received it we had given them more time, but it will be done in any case. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 532

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 532

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is very evident that some people prefer death to dishonour because, as I understand, Mr. Bell has left a very good job as fire marshal to return to Saskatchewan rather than stay in the Northwest Territories. Is he assuming that there will be no more than the 20 per cent removal of people from the territories in protest against the staff housing policy?

Supplementary To Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 533

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 533

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the majority of employees who are being affected by this, find it as an acceptable initiative. However, there are hardship cases that have to be dealt with. For those people who feel like they are hard done by because we are asking them to pay a fair rent, they have options to move to greener pastures. I believe they will do that. I do not begrudge it. I believe that, in the end, people who want to stay in the north, who love the north and have a commitment to the north, will stick with that commitment. I believe that the number of people who resign may publicly be perceived as leaving as a result of this strategy. In fact, there has been a high unacceptable level of turnovers for years. My view is, in the long-term this housing initiative will help stabilize the employees of the Northwest Territories. When people start to see they can make long-term commitments, they can receive an opportunity to buy the houses that they are assigned, they will have assurance that the government will buy back their units, people will, in the and, start to see it as a real benefit to make long-term commitments to the north and not just come here for two or three years. Our own home-grown northern and aboriginal employees will also start to stabilize as they see the benefits of this initiative and reap the benefits through the home ownership programs and the sale of staff houses. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 533

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Point of order, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Point Of Order

Further Return To Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 533

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin, point of order.

Point Of Order

Further Return To Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 533

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Point of order, Mr. Speaker. I do not have the book to refer to, but I believe that calling a Member ignorant, which the Member did call me, is also unparliamentary, so I request an apology as well. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 533

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

We have two requests for apologies. I will consider both points of order and will relay my decision to the House. I would like to say that this, again, is another example of a point of privilege that was made last week, which I will be giving my judgement in the next couple of days. It comes to the very fundamental way a Legislative Assembly works. It comes to a matter of common sense and politeness. This is a political process, it is not a debating society. However much latitude the Speaker decides to allow, it must be fair for both sides of the House. I will get back to the House as soon as possible with my judgement. Thank you. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Further Return To Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 533

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps calling the Minister ignorant was unparliamentary. I have not been able to see it in...

Further Return To Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Question 297-12(3): Opposition To Long-term Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 533

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Excuse me, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Point of order, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Point Of Order