Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

--- Carried

Does that conclude the presentation from the Standing Committee on Finance? Mr. Dent.

Do we have other general comments from anyone? I believe that concludes this. We are on page 04-8 of Finance. Mr. Koe.

General Comments

As much as I know the Minister of Finance would like to got this approved quickly, I have a few comments. In the Department of Finance, under the operation and maintenance revenues, we still have an item that has been outstanding for a while and is still the subject of some considerable debate, the payroll tax. There is a revenue item, on page 4-17, of $8.2 million. We are all aware that the proposed Payroll Tax Act has had first reading and has not gone any further and that the Standing Committee on Finance made a report and did not support the Payroll Tax Act as it existed in its present form. if that is the case and events unfold as they should, how is the Minister going to be dealing with this item in this budget if the Payroll Tax Act is not approved?

Thank you. Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, if the committee would indulge me, I will just back up a bit. I think in the Standing Committee on Finance's report, they were not against the principle of the payroll tax. I talked to the chairman this morning and I believe he is going to raise with his committee the fact that I am requesting to appear before the Standing Committee on Finance to try and resolve our differences with regard to the payroll tax. I am hoping that will take place next week, Mr. Chairman. I am still hoping to resolve that issue with the Standing Committee on Finance.

However, in the event that this Legislative Assembly does not approve the Payroll Tax Act, which Mr. Koe mentioned, then we will lose, out of our revenues this year, about $8.2 million. What that will do is add it on to the $885,000 already, as I mentioned in the budget speech that we are in deficit, then we will be at a $9 million deficit for this year. One of the things I could do is recommend to Cabinet that we take some action on the expenditure side of the budget that is presented in order to come in with a balanced budget. First of all, Mr. Chairman, I would like to meet with the Standing Committee on Finance and see if we can resolve the issue. Thank you.

Thank you. Are there any further general comments? Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In which activity in this department are the payroll tax dollars identified in?

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, it we are going to get into more detailed questions then I would ask if I could bring in witnesses. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Does the committee agree that the Minister of Finance bring in his witnesses?

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please bring in the witnesses.

Thank you. For the record, Mr. Minister, would you like to introduce the witnesses to the committee?

Mr. Chairman, I have with me Mr. Eric Nielsen, the deputy minister of Finance, and Mr. Bill Setchell who is the director of finance for the Department of Finance. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Just before the Minister brought in the witnesses, there was a question on the table by Mr. Koe. Mr. Minister, if you remember the question would you like to respond to it?

Mr. Chairman, that falls under the tax administration activity. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

That is on page 04-12. When we go into detail, we will go to that page and perhaps that will be the appropriate time for Mr. Koe to ask the question. Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted that information, so when that activity comes up we do not skip by it because it is not noted in the narrative under that section, or at least I did not see it. From past experience, which is very brief, I know we do not get into line by line when we get into the revenues, recoveries and transfer payments. Apparently they are there as information. I want to make sure we address this when the time comes.

The other comment I would like to make is one that the Minister just made. If the amounts of revenues that we expect to generate this year in this budget do not come to be, then we have to took at other methods. One other method is looking at further reductions in O and M. My question is how much, or what work has been done in the past year leading up to this budget in terms of reviewing operations and maintenance of

departments to find the slack and define areas which can be reduced?

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Mr. Chairman, we have been through a considerable, exhaustive expenditure management program during the past year. The results of that I am sure Members are well aware of. What other areas are available to us? We could took at down-sizing government and eliminating some more positions. I think most of the departments have been through that before, and that would be an exercise where we could drag up the old information and look at it again. We could look at, as we are, further privatization of aspects of the government. We could look at the effectiveness of programs. Are there some programs that are no longer effective that we could dispose of? We could look at the new NWT OPS training program that is in the budget, and say, "Can we really afford that if we cannot meet our revenues?" I think most of the departments are pretty well cut back at the present time, and I would be hesitant to go back to them simply because we are going through decentralization. We are going through some aspects of consolidation which will have some longer-term savings to us. I would be hesitant to go back to them at the present time, but if it is necessary, I am sure departments could come forward with more suggestions on how we could reduce our O and M budget. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.