Good morning. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford.

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ordinary Members are sometimes criticized because they have become very well organized and effective. During the last Assembly, a process was initiated to hold government accountable but it was not as effective as it is now. One of our failures was the unsuccessful attempt to prevent our participation at Expo in Seville. A coalition of Members of the Standing Committee on Finance, Mr. Pollard, and the previous Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Wray, convinced the Assembly that our participation would be a good thing. I predicted it would be an unmitigated disaster. Although we await with interest the result of the internal audit, we already know it was a misguided, crackpot, ill-conceived, warped, obliquitous, grandiose misadventure of the worst possible kind. I include myself among those ordinary Members of the 11th Assembly who should be scorned, ridiculed and maligned because, despite our numbers, we failed to prevent an almost felonious squandering of millions of taxpayers' dollars.

I have visited Spain on and off since the 1950s and have a special affection for the country. When we debated our participation, I was amused at the vision of feeding gourmet meals to poor people who traditionally attend grand events with enough food and drink of their own to feed the entire family for a week. The debate over our participation during the last Assembly is a classic case of how intelligent people, in this Assembly, were blinded by a magnificent vision of the Northwest Territories competing with the nations of the world in a world market and winning.

We were blinded by Mr. Wray's persuasive vision of northern products invading the European and Japanese markets because the north American population was too small to handle our huge economy. We behaved like a desperate third world country begging for attention. It was the ultimate ego trip.

Mr. Lewis, your allotted time has expired. Mr. Lewis.

Mr. Speaker, I will not ask for unanimous consent to continue because I have made my point.

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am very concerned about this government's commitment to the development of the emerging market communities. The Minister of Economic Development and Tourism has informed us that it is the government's intention to spend a greater portion of its money in these communities. I do not see the government following through with a strategy to carry this promise out. Last June, I questioned the Minister regarding the government's decision, at the time, to locate the proposed fire

aircraft maintenance facilities in Fort Smith rather than in Fort Simpson. The rationale was that Fort Smith had a more sophisticated economy. The Minister was not willing to reconsider that decision.

Mr. Speaker, communities such as Fort Smith and Hay River are more developed in large part because the government has spent more money in the past in those communities on the development of their infrastructure. With more development for infrastructure, it then seems to be easier for government to rationalize the decentralization of programs and the placements of new government facilities in those communities. The benefits to develop communities continues to grow. In the meantime, other communities with great potential are left out. Fort Simpson has the potential to develop a solid economic base, to be the transportation hub for the Mackenzie, but it needs coordinated government support to lay the foundation for its future.

The Special Committee on Northern Economy, in 1989, recognized that government must carry on the work of development in underdeveloped communities until it is viable for the private sector to take over. Fort Simpson needs the assistance of a government plan for the development of more lots and subdivisions to accommodate growth in the community, and a plan for water and sewer services required for the new living areas. If business and industry is to grow, alternatives for a cheaper power source for the community must be explored. The options of receiving a power supply for the hydroelectric facility at Taltson River and of connecting with the BC power grid should be explored. Fort Simpson is a tax-based municipality, but not a large one. The government must demonstrate that it is solidly behind its desire to progress. The pay off for this investment, in terms of economic growth...

Mr. Antoine, your allotted time has expired.

Mr. Speaker, that concludes my statement, thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, I learned that the manager of the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce branch in Fort Smith had announced the banks intention to close the branch on June 4, 1993. This will leave my constituents with no local banking options. Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, I rose to question the Minister of Finance on the government's intention in this matter. Mr. Speaker, it was only as I rose to ask the question that I realized I may be perceived as being in a position of conflict. Accordingly, I did not pursue this issue with the Minister as I might otherwise have.

I wish to take this opportunity to identify, for the record, my conflict on this issue and advise my constituents how I propose to deal with this conflict, bearing in mind the high ethical standards expected of Members and the needs of my constituents. The nature of my conflict, Mr. Speaker, is that the CIBC branch in Fort Smith rents one half of a duplex which my husband and I own. For the record, Mr. Speaker, my concern with the recent announcement of the CIBC is not the potential loss of income to us, rather my sole concern is that my constituents have adequate local banking facilities available to them regardless of which bank makes these facilities available. Nonetheless, I recognize that by pursuing my questioning this issue could be perceived as using my office as an MLA to influence the decision of the CIBC so as to further my personal interest. This is contrary to the letter and spirit of the conflict of interest provisions of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act.

The concern of my constituents with respect to this closure needs to be addressed and heard in this House. Accordingly, I have asked the honourable Member for Inuvik to pursue this issue on my behalf and on the behalf of my constituents. I can advise the House that I have not thought to direct or influence this Member on the handling of this issue. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd.

Thank you. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Dent on February 25 with respect to the WCB security system.

The Workers' Compensation Board's security system was installed in 1990 at a total cost of $43,694.

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Ningark on February 24, 1993, with regard the schooling of Peter Salomonie's children.

Mr. Peter Salomonie has one child, a daughter, registered with the Baffin division school board of education. She is presently attending grade four in Nakasuk School in Iqaluit. No other children are currently registered with the board.

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Ningark on February 22, 1993.

I received a letter from the mayor of Gjoa Haven on January 25, 1993, requesting three counsellors for the community. He should be receiving my response shortly.

There are presently two community social workers in Gjoa Haven and one regional alcohol and drug specialist. The department does not have sufficient resources, so I am not able to approve a third community worker, but I am pleased to note that the region is encouraging more community participation in social issues in all communities through training workshops on such matters as grief counselling. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mrs. Jeannie Marie-Jewell on February 19, 1993, concerning criteria for land tenure access to home ownership program.

Units delivered under the access program can be built on the following types of land: fee simple titled land; long-term leased land; and, band land, also known as Indian Affairs branch (IAB) land or land reserved for Indian use, as long as a band council resolution is obtained allowing long-term use of the land.

These are the same criteria for land tenure that were used in the previous home ownership assistance program. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudluk. You are asking for a point of order, Mr. Pudluk. There is nothing in the rules. I will take it as a point of order. Please state your case, Mr. Pudluk.

I would like clarification before we start asking questions. We were asking questions yesterday about social assistance, on pages 1726 to 1729. On the bottom of page 1728, a question was asked by Mr. Patterson regarding the social assistance rate increase, and the answer provided by the Minister for Social Services stated, "A recent five per cent increase in the social assistance food allowance, which occurred on October 1, 1992, only covers the increase in the consumer price index. I will look into this further and get back to the Member." Did she take the question as notice, or will the Minister get back to us with a further answer?

That is not a point of order. I have ruled in the House, Mr. Pudluk, that a question is not taken as notice unless a Minister specifically takes the question as notice. So, that question was not taken as notice, and one would have to read the answer exactly as she said. I read she will get back individually to a Member or Members, but the question was not taken as notice. It is possible to pursue that question in oral questions.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Health. She will know that yesterday I tabled a report prepared by the Keewatin regional health board documenting the circumstances surrounding the 1991 disease outbreak suffered by six Kivalliq communities. The report contains twenty important recommendations. Given the importance of the matter of these Kivalliq residents and all northerners, I would like to ask her some questions about the status of these recommendations. One of the recommendations is that the Department of Health prepare a list of candidates for community coordinator positions in case other communicable diseases break out. Can the Minister indicate whether such a listing has been compiled yet? Thank you.

Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe such a list has been compiled. However, I will have to check if it was circulated. The appointment of such a community coordinator would be the responsibility of the health board in the region. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

One of the recommendations in the report is that the chief medical officer should hold discussions with the region to clearly define roles and responsibilities in the outbreak situation. Can the Minister indicate which regions the chief medical officer has listed to carry out consultations?

Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Regarding the chief and deputy medical health officers, I do not have a breakdown of the number of chief medical officers per region, but I will get back to the Member and provide the information. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Keewatin regional health board's report also recommended that the medical directorate in the Department of Health draft a contingency plan for circulation which outlines the human and financial resources that have to be allocated in the emergency disease situation. Has the department completed the contingency planning exercise?

Ms. Mike.

I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, I did not hear the question.

Mr. Arvaluk, would you like to repeat the question, please?

Mr. Speaker, I do not know if I should repeat my preamble. Has the department completed a contingency planning exercise to prevent other regions contracting a similar kind of disease?

Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are 46 different reportable infectious disease conditions in the Northwest Territories that could occur in an outbreak. An outbreak of these conditions would require different resources and handling. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

I realize there are many, but our concern is, is this outbreak in relation to what comes from the food, such as E-coli? The people in the Keewatin region are worried that the disease may recur over the course of this summer. The Keewatin regional health board report, which has now been tabled in this House, recognizes that as summer approaches it is necessary to carefully monitor early signs of the disease and implement a health promotion campaign. What activities are being planned for the Keewatin to carry out the health promotion and monitoring activities recommended in the Keewatin regional health board report?

Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Health promotion and monitoring activities are the responsibility of the regional health board. One year ago, the department transferred the health promotion officer to the region to oversee health education and promotion activities. Headquarters staff continued to provide back-up support to the region. In fact, they played a major role during the outbreak. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. In February of 1990, the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism tabled an economic strategy for the Government of the Northwest Territories. The package was termed, "Building on Strengths - A Community Based Approach." The strategy that he introduced was called, "Economy in Transition - An Agenda For Action." Can the Minister advise the House whether the building on strengths package is still the key planning document for the Department of Economic Development and Tourism?

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, it is one of the documents we are still using. However, I should point out to the House that, as situations and conditions change in the Northwest Territories, our priorities shift from time to time, but it is still one of the documents we are using. Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In its agenda for action document, the department identified the community of Fort Simpson as having a significant potential to expand its role as the regional supply centre and to expand its local range of goods and services. A main element of the economic strategy was the plan to target communities to concentrate on the need and potential for development and to adapt programs to communities. Is the focus on targeting communities and building on communities and regional strength still a priority of the department? Thank you.

Mr. Pollard.

Yes, it is, Mr. Speaker. I would point out, once again, that people have to agree. One of the problems that we found is that our idea of what a region or a community may wish to do, may not be what the community wants to do. If communities are in agreement with us on what we feel is their potential, that is the basis for us providing them with assistance and the direction that we would like to take them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister explain to this House how these principles are being implemented by the department in relation to the needs and potential of Fort Simpson? Mahsi.

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, if we want to talk about the Member's specific constituency, we would look at what natural resources there are, where the transportation links are, what the people in the communities are producing by way of arts and crafts and where the community is strategically located. In some instances, we would look at the expertise within the community. Building on the strength of what is around the community is the economic philosophy we would use. The Simpson area and Liard, obviously has tremendous resources. The area has wood and natural gas. Part of the constituency is on the Mackenzie River and it does have a highway system; there is a loop between Alberta and BC through the Liard highway. Those things would all be factored in and we would be trying to suggest to the people that we should be building on those particular strengths. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When we finished with Economic Development and Tourism yesterday I was happy to see there was no indication of further extravaganzas. There is an internal audit being done on our participation at Expo in Seville. Why is it, since this corporation was set up as a body separate from government, that it is being audited by internal auditors rather than by the normal audit which you would expect from an agency of a government?

Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not aware of any reason why our auditors could not audit an agency of the government. We have an internal audit bureau and this was the route chosen to audit the Department of Economic Development and Tourism with regard to the expenditures they made at Expo. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Mr. Speaker, there are two classes of auditors, in fact there are several. I know that internal auditors take specific direction. They are told to look at certain aspects, if that is the wish of the government, and then they audit the things they are asked to audit. Has the internal audit group been given specific guidelines as to how they should audit the Expo pavilion?

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, I will take the question as notice. I will get a copy of the instructions to the auditors and provide it to the House. Thank you.

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday we were all made aware of the proposed bank closure in Fort Smith. As I understand it, over the past few years the bank has slowly been reducing the services it provides to the people and especially to the business community in Fort Smith. The bank in Fort Smith does not have authority to issue loans and people must go to Hay River to apply for business loans. I think this is good for Hay River, but not good for the clients in Fort Smith. Last November the chamber of commerce made a request to the Minister of Finance asking that the Minister meet with them in Fort Smith to discuss this issue. As far as I understand it, the Minister has not acted on this request. On June 4, 1993, the bank is going to close the facility in Fort Smith. Why did the Minister of Finance not act on the community's request to meet with them on this issue?

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, the arrangement which I had with the CIBC, and I have discussed this with the Member for Thebacha, was that in January or February of this year the CIBC manager and myself would journey to Fort Smith and discuss this issue with the residents of Fort Smith. As I said in the House yesterday, in January I was advised by the CIBC that they wished to cancel out on the meeting because they did not think it would be very productive. I am still prepared to go ahead with that meeting in Fort Smith. I will do that as soon as possible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. We are all aware that many communities in the north do not have banking facilities or access to cheque cashing or deposit facilities. Now one of our largest communities, effective June 4, 1993, is going to be in the same boat. Why does this government always wait until a crisis occurs before it acts on something such as this?

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, I knew last year the CIBC was contemplating leaving Fort Smith. They phoned me and asked my opinion. Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories cannot influence private business people or banking institutions. They explained to me that their problem was a lack of usage of the bank's facilities. Mr. Koe has mentioned earlier that people were going to Hay River for loans. The fact of the matter is, the bank has advised me that many people in Fort Smith are doing their banking in

Edmonton or possibly in Yellowknife. Last year the bank advised me it was getting to the stage where that branch was uneconomic. Mr. Speaker, this triggered the discussion that I had with the chamber of commerce in Fort Smith, which caused me to suggest that the bank manager should go there with me and have a discussion with the residents of Fort Smith. Mr. Speaker, I think it should also be noted that the bank has advised me that two agencies in Fort Smith, one being the chamber of commerce, have suggested to the CIBC that they should leave the community. The community has asked for it, the bank has given us indication that they were going to do it, and now all of a sudden the bank does come through on what it has been asked to do and what it said it was going to do, and the community is showing some concern.

I am concerned also, Mr. Speaker, in other areas of the Northwest Territories, as the Member correctly points out, there is a desperate shortage of banking facilities. Here we have a fairly large community which is losing its banking facility. The bank says it is because the town never uses the facility. I am saying, Mr. Speaker, I have no facts on which to base this and I have no ability to go to the bank and ask for facts. I can only go on the conversation which was given to me, and that was that the bank was not being used. I wanted to go there to find out what the bank had to say and what the people of the community had to say about why that facility is not being used. I think the situation is still the same as it was last year. The bank has now said they are going to leave the community. There is still time between now and June to discuss this issue with the bank and the community. I would suggest that if the community did realize that they are going to have to use it or lose it, that perhaps they may want to reconsider the use they are making of that facility. Time will tell as we meet with the community, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe some preventative measures could have been taken. I believe this could have happened if the Minister would have reacted and the issues could have been discussed to prevent this decision. Will the Minister act now and take the initiative to meet with the residents of Fort Smith and the banking officials to try to resolve this issue?

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, it is not a question of acting now. I have always planned in either January or February to go to Fort Smith. I told the chamber of commerce this last year. It is not a matter of me acting now and not having done anything in the past. I have discussed this with the chamber of commerce, with some of the people in the community and the mayor, and I have been told by some people it is not a big deal if the CIBC leaves because we have another bank which wants to come in here. I have not had people exactly beating my door down in a panic situation saying we are going to lose the CIBC. I have been acting on it and I will follow through on my commitment to the chamber of commerce to be in Fort Smith by next week to discuss with them what they want to do about this particular issue. If they are as unconcerned as some of the people are, then there may not be anything that can be done. If the community as a whole gets together and realizes you have to support facilities if you want them to be maintained in your community, of if the bank has not been treating its customers correctly, perhaps that might come out. That could be pointed out to the bank and the bank may wish to reconsider. I have been advised by the bank it is strictly a business decision on their behalf, they are losing considerable amounts of money in Fort Smith. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Social Services. Mr. Speaker, I met with the hamlet council in Gjoa Haven regarding the disabled people in the community who have no assistance. If the community would like to get a building where the disabled people can meet or if the community wanted to obtain a group home for the disabled people, is there a policy with regard to that? Thank you.

Ms. Mike.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe we have a policy with regard to that. There is a group home in Iqaluit and Rankin Inlet. I will check into that policy and get back to you. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since there is a group home in Rankin Inlet, can you see if the Kitikmeot region is eligible to get a group home for disabled people?

Ms. Mike.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not think there is currently a group home in the Kitikmeot region. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

(Translation) Mr. Speaker, if there is no group home in the Kitikmeot at this time, perhaps you could consider setting up a group home in Cambridge Bay. Thank you.

Ms. Mike.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all I will check to see if the Kitikmeot is eligible to get a group home for disabled people and I will get back to you. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Social Services. I was informed that the social assistance rates have been increased by five per cent. Mr. Speaker, the price of the carvings are constantly going down, and for this reason my constituents are going through hardship, especially those who are living on earnings from carving. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister of Social Services indicate if we can expect a raise in 1993-94? She previously answered that the policy is still under review. Would the Minister indicate to us if she will reply today? Thank you.

Ms. Mike.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I indicated yesterday that there has been a five per cent increase. In April of 1987 there was an increase of eight per cent which was followed by a five per cent increase in 1990. The increases applied to ten communities in the territories. The number of social assistance recipients are still increasing in the communities in the north. I will check into that. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday on page 17-28, the Minister of Social Services suggested that change to the Social Assistance Act will be required before social assistance rates can be reviewed. What is the process for changing social assistance rates? Thank you.

Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At the present time, we go with the agreement we have in place with the federal government and the Canadian price index.

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Pudluk.

Mr. Speaker, what agreement is in place in Canada?

Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. National Council of Welfare is the body which determines the rate changes regarding welfare. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Social Services. I am aware that there is no agreement with the federal government with regard to reviewing social assistance rates. That is the responsibility of the Minister and Cabinet. Does the Minister not agree? I believe that is what my honourable colleague was asking, that social assistance rates are changed under regulation and not legislation. Thank you.

Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, yes.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a question to the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation. What is causing the power outage problems experienced this week in Iqaluit? Thank you.

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, the recent power outages in Iqaluit have been related to two causes. One is equipment failure associated with the older existing generator,

and the second is commissioning of the new generating unit. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Government Leader as Minister responsible for the

Northwest Territories Power Corporation. The community of Fort Simpson is eager to develop a more sound economic base. Community leaders are concerned that if the community is to develop its potential in the area of business and industry, cheaper sources of power must be explored. Has the Northwest Territories Power Corporation explored the possibility of cheaper power sources for the consumers in Fort Simpson and area through a link perhaps with the hydroelectric facility at Taltson River? Thank you.

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I believe a study was done regarding power from Taltson. Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If a study was done, would the Minister be willing to recommend to the Power Corporation that this option be explored? Thank you.

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that in the analysis that was done, at this point in time, because there are only eight megawatts available, it was not an option that would provide economic power. There could be other areas looked at, but when we did the number crunching, it was deemed that it was not feasible or an economic option. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.