Good morning. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On March 9, 1993, I questioned Mr. Todd about the objectives of our transportation strategy. Several colleagues were upset over a radio broadcast of March 10 which indicated I was against the building of the Mackenzie Valley highway. Anyone who reads the transcripts for that day will know I did not say the Mackenzie Valley highway should not be built. In fact, I believe the Mackenzie Valley highway should be built and my views have not changed since 1972.

The point I want to make is this, in the 1970s there was a proposal to build a 48 inch natural gas pipeline down the Mackenzie Valley at a cost of $5 billion. Because there was a continental energy crisis, the price of oil had shot up dramatically. To get support for a pipeline, federal funds were allocated for the building of highway and we all remember the work of Hire North from those days. When the energy crisis was over and a small six inch oil pipeline was built from Norman Wells to Zama Lake the highway was suddenly forgotten. The pursuit of a gas pipeline was put on hold.

The building of new roads and highways in the Northwest Territories is a federal responsibility, Mr. Speaker. They will be built if they are in the federal government's interest, which usually means roads to resources to serve national, continental or international interests. As a government, Mr. Speaker, our prime objective should be roads which reduces the cost of moving goods, services and people, to encourage inter-settlement economic activity and to encourage tourism. In other words, to reduce the cost of living for our people and to improve the quality of life.

Our strategy should be always to keep in mind that federal objectives in new road construction may not be the same as our own. The point I tried to make to Mr. Todd is that we must always keep our objectives in front of us. We do not control new road construction. If the next new road is from Izok Lake to the Coronation Gulf, we should not invest our limited resources in it if it does not serve the interests of the people we represent.

If you read Hansard you will find, Mr. Todd did change his mind and state that objectives are important. I regret the confusion my remarks may have, in fact, caused. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. G K Chesterton was an English novelist who started his writing career about 100 years ago. One of the best lines he ever wrote was on the topic of law. He said, "We do not get good laws to restrain bad people, we get good people to restrain bad law." Mr. Speaker, old G K could have filled a whole book with these kinds of sayings if he were to visit the Northwest Territories. He could find in a jurisdiction of this size that we have over 4,100 pages of consolidated statutes and more arriving every session. That is one page of law for every three households, Mr. Speaker.

We have laws regarding CGAs, CMAs and CNAs. We have laws regarding dentists, dependents, domestic relations, documents and dogs. Mr. Speaker, those are only the statutes. We are buried up to our necks as well in regulations. I photocopied all the wildlife regulations from the NWT Gazette and it stacks four centimetres thick of paper.

Mr. Speaker, I want to be serious for a moment. We are moving ahead in an era that will see more political changes than we have ever seen before in the Northwest Territories. We will be seeing new forms of government emerge in Nunavut and Denendeh, and we will see a growing recognition of the inherent right of aboriginal people to govern themselves. We must make sure our hands are not tied by the type of legislation which has accumulated over the years. It takes a long time to amend all of this legislation, Mr. Speaker. We should be taking every precaution to make sure that when we pass laws in this House we are carefully considering the future changes that lie around the corner. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Koe on March 4, 1993 with respect to the policy on shipping freight by NTCL north of Norman Wells.

It has been a policy of the Government of the Northwest Territories since 1979 that all major GNWT shipments to the western Arctic and Keewatin regions are to be carried by the Northern Transportation Company Ltd. Government support for NTCL over these many years has been thought to be necessary to maintain a viable common carrier service in the western and central Arctic for the benefit of both the public and private sectors.

After 14 years, it is time to reconsider the government's transportation policy to see if it still serves its original purpose and if exclusive public support for a designated common carrier is still necessary. The transportation system is the life blood of our northern economy. The government cannot change such a central economic policy hastily, without giving all due consideration to its possible ramifications.

As my colleague the Minister for Government Services and Public Works stated earlier, we expect to deal with the transportation policy before the fall session. In the meantime, I would welcome any advice or suggestions the Members or their constituents might have to give me. Thank you.

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This being a Friday, I have an important question for the Minister of Public Works. In his capacity as the Minister responsible for overseeing the new Legislative Assembly building, Mr. Speaker, is the Minister aware the signs in front of the new Legislative Assembly building site have been tampered with?

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No.

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, I can tell the Minister and this House that although the Legislative Assembly building society and the Members' Services Board compositions have changed since the signs were erected in front of the construction site, the signs have been changed in one respect only. That is, to obliterate utterly any reference to the Honourable Nellie Cournoyea, who was Minister of Public Works when the project was started. A crew was dispatched to the site, her name was painted over and wiped out, and the Honourable Don Morin's name has been carefully painted in.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister of Public Works is, and I think this would be a good employment project for the Northwest Territories, will the Minister assure this House that he will make a priority to ensure that his deputy minister is instructed to ensure that every sign on every construction site in every community in the Northwest Territories is immediately inspected to ensure that any reference to the Minister's predecessor is obliterated and wiped out?

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes.

---Laughter

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, what happened to the humble guy from Fort Resolution who came to the big city to be a Minister without any pretence of putting on airs?

---Laughter

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am still humbly following Members' instructions. Thank you.

---Laughter

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Whitford.

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I requested a call to Mary Collins, since the Minister of the Environment, Jean Charest, was not available this morning. My staff has talked to Mr. Charest's office and we are also keeping in contact with ITC, who is thinking of putting in a notice of objection under the Environmental Protection Act. I asked my office to contact Mary Collins this morning and I am just waiting for a phone call back from them. Yesterday, when the Minister was asked about this project, she was not aware of the whole project. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister a similar question. Is the Minister of Renewable Resources convinced that there is no coordination between the Minister of Environment Canada and his staff from the department regarding the dumping in the Arctic Ocean? Is he aware there is very little coordination between the Minister and the staff of the Environment on the dumping proposal?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. According to the federal government, the way this project was set up was acceptable to them. They thought if they dumped scrap metal in the ocean, there would be minimal impact. That was the advice given to the federal Minister and he did not pursue it. I think the communication is good, but the officials of the department were advising their Minister that this was no big deal. To us in the Northwest Territories any ocean dumping raises a concern, and my department has been rigorously pursuing the Department of Environment as well as the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. We are also trying to get a feeling from Indian and Northern Affairs on this ocean dumping to see if we can find another alternative to look after the garbage which is proposed to be dumped into the ocean. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the Minister is aware that Ms. Mary Collins was a consultant to Petro Canada during the liquified natural gas project. Knowing she has fairly good knowledge about the activities and the sensitivity of the environment in the Arctic, will the Minister be talking to her directly and have her directly involved with the question of dumping, rather than relying solely on the Department of Environment?

Mr. Allooloo.

Mr. Speaker, as I said, I have requested to talk to the Minister, Mary Collins. I have not heard back about when I will be able to talk to Minister Collins, but I will talk to her about this.

Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to get assurance from the Minister, will he insist on talking to her directly, rather than having his department and her department talk to each other?

Mr. Allooloo.

Mr. Speaker, that is what I have requested. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Personnel. Mr. Speaker, last week I asked the Minister about education leave. In reviewing unedited Hansard, he indicates "in 1992, 13 employees of the Government of the Northwest Territories were granted education leave." I would like to ask the Minister what criteria was used in making decisions on whether or not to grant education leave? Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Further to Mr. Arvaluk's question to the Minister of Renewable Resources, I have a question also. There has been some activity going on near Resolute Bay from Fisheries and Oceans. Have they ever been questioned as to what is happening to the ecosystem and to the animal inhabitants of that area? Have they ever studied the impact on the micro-organisms in the ocean and the impact of dumping garbage in the ocean? Have they ever been questioned about this? Thank you.

Mr. Allooloo.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The people who are studying make reports annually. However, they have not completed their final report as of today, so we do not know what is going on with the ecosystem. They have not really noticed any changes which is stated in their reports. I will look into the matter, however. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I would like the Minister to look into this serious matter. At the time when PanArctic had a meeting about dumping garbage in the ocean, the director of Fisheries and Oceans could not attend the meeting. However, he did not want anyone dumping garbage into this particular ocean because some micro-organisms and marine life, such as walruses, would be affected by this dumping. Can the Minister table a report in the House to show us what kind of impact the dumping will have in the Arctic ocean? Thank you.

Mr. Allooloo.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I will look into this matter. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Supplementary to my question. Can you also look into another matter? They had dumped metal waste into the ocean last year and, I guess after no opposition, they have been wanting to dump some more waste into the Arctic Ocean. Has there been any studies on how this has impacted the small animals? I would like to ask the Minister if there have been any studies completed on the impacts from previous dumping into the ocean? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Allooloo.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I will look into this study and report to the House what kind of effects the contaminants have had on the sea mammals. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Safety and Public Services. Mr. Speaker, earlier I had brought a concern to the Minister on an application which was submitted by an organization in our community which was called "The Warriors." However, their application was for some type of lottery licence which was denied. Apparently, it was denied because of the fact that their membership was not open to the general public. However, I would like to ask the Minister if this policy applies to applications, why are lottery licences given to bands where the membership is not open to the general public, the Metis Association where the membership is not open to the general public, the Elks where the membership is not open to the general public and the Legion which is not open to the general public? What are the determining factors in this policy?

Mr. Todd.

That is a good question. I will have to take that question as notice, Mr. Speaker.

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question directed to the Minister of Justice. I believe in the aboriginal languages being implemented in the Northwest Territories, and I also ask questions in my native language. I wonder if court documents, particularly summons for court appearances have always been translated into Inuktitut. Mr. Speaker, the unilingual people who have to attend court do not understand what kind of summons they have been issued. Mr. Speaker, using the Official Languages Act, can the Minister in the future get the documents translated into Inuktitut or into any other aboriginal language which is being used in the Northwest Territories? Can we hope to have these translated into Inuktitut in the future? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Supplementary, Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is not a supplementary question. I will be asking further questions later. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Transportation. I am going to ask Mr. Todd whether our government has been asked, in any formal sense, to make a financial commitment to the infrastructure for the development of the Izok Lake deposit.

Mr. Todd.

No, Mr. Speaker, there is no financial commitment made at this time. As the honourable Member is aware, we are working with all the stakeholder groups in trying to develop a strategy as to how we would approach the federal government. Clearly, there is a need. At least initially, it appears there is a need for significant public infrastructure to make this mine a success, but at this time there is no financial commitment.

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know the Minister will be attending a meeting in Coppermine on May 7 and 8, I believe. I would like to ask the Minister, what is the purpose of this meeting? What does he hope will be achieved at this particular meeting?

Mr. Todd.

I have said many times since I have come over on this side, it is the politics of inclusion. This project is national in scale, even international I suspect. I want to ensure northern interests are protected, if that is the right term, that we look after the interests of all northerners on this issue. The intent of the May 8 and 9 meeting in Coppermine is to bring groups together such as the Inuit of the Kitikmeot, the Dogrib, the NWT Chamber of Mines, the NWT Chamber of Commerce, the MLAs and the Minnova people. I spoke to Dr. Watkins, who is the president, yesterday and he has agreed to attend. It is just an effort to develop a strategy of how we would approach the federal government and how we are going to approach this project in relationship to the public infrastructure which is required. It is just an initial meeting to determine if there is sufficient interests amongst the groups to provide me and the department with input as to how we would approach this whole project at this time.

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

What benefits does the Minister expect will accrue to this government and to the people of the Northwest Territories with the completion of this project? It is not a hypothetical question, Mr. Speaker, because we have been told it is going to go ahead.

Mr. Todd.

What benefits are going to be accrued? I suspect it would depend upon how well we negotiate and how well we become part of the process. That is the reason we are trying to get together with Minnova and the stakeholder groups. We need to develop a dialogue between the industry, between the government and between the stakeholder groups involved. The benefits, I suspect, could be numerous. There could be employment opportunities, equity opportunities for the aboriginal groups who will have land claims money and construction opportunities. There would be the opportunity to put significant public infrastructure in, whether it was a port in Coppermine or a highway. I could go on all day regarding the opportunities, Mr. Speaker. If I can quantify it in dollars at least initially the industry is looking at putting in $450 million and the infrastructure, again the numbers are not hard yet, would be somewhere between $400 to $600 million for the road and the port. We have to assume, if I may use that term, that there are going to be significant economic benefits derived, not only to the north but to Canada. It is certainly my intention to link into the process to ensure there is a dialogue ongoing and our interests are protected through discussion.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. PanArctic takes a stand that they felt dumping in the ocean of scrap metal is not a big deal because they said they have never received any complaints. I will ask my question to the Minister of Government Services. Will Government Services instruct NorthwesTel to install phone lines in the ocean so that seals and other marine mammals will have equal access to be able to make complaints to PanArctic? Since human beings do not live there, I do not think they will receive any complaints

.

The wonders of modern technology. Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will seek advice from the Minister of Renewable Resources to see if those animals can use telephone services. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Justice. Mr. Speaker, in framing these questions I want to advise you that I have been mindful of your ruling on February 23, which indicated we should take concern when asking questions about individuals. However, I seem to be getting some concerns expressed by my constituents on how this issue is addressed.

Mr. Speaker, on Thursday, February 18, my honourable colleague for Deh Cho asked a series of questions about services which are being provided to a particular inmate within the territorial correctional system. This particular inmate was previously one of the senior officials with the territorial government. During the sentence hearing of this inmate, the lawyers indicated there was a specific need for counselling which could be best through a continued contact in Toronto with a therapist. This is certainly on public record. It was also stated during the sentence hearing that special needs were so great that the sentence ought to take them into consideration.

Recognizing that the courts were told it was so necessary for this previous civil servant who had defrauded the government in excess of a quarter of a million dollars to be incarcerated in a location where she could be seen by her therapist. I would like to ask the Minister to explain why she has been retained in the Fort Smith correctional centre rather than being transferred to Ontario? Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

With all due respect, Mr. Speaker, I hear comments from women and particularly from native women that if this was a native woman she would be in a penitentiary down south. Mr. Speaker, the Minister stated that the responsibility is of Corrections Canada and at this time he is trying to work together with the NWT corrections and the justice system. Recognizing this is a federal inmate who plead guilty to one of the largest misappropriation of funds in the history of the territorial public service, and recognizing that her sentence specifically took into account the need to send out a message of general deterrence to others who might be tempted to commit this sort of breach, I would like to ask the Minister if his officials have considered the kind of image our territorial corrections system is creating by the fact that this past civil servant is now attending Arctic College and travelling around the community unsupervised? Thank you.

Mrs. Marie-Jewell, I think you are asking the opinion of the Minister. Perhaps you would like to rephrase that question. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If my question is not meant to intend to ask for an opinion of the Minister, it is to indicate the policies which are being developed to be implemented in the general justice system do not give deterrence to avoid this type of crime to reoccur. What have the Minister's officials done to assure the public that the justice system will address people who have committed crimes in the territories, to ensure that justice is done when crimes are being sentenced? Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, the issue is not the fact that my constituents are concerned of a high risk inmate in the

community. I do not appreciate the motive which is being imputed by the Minister. Mr. Speaker, the issue at hand is the fact of what is the Justice department doing to deter future individuals who may be in the civil service from committing such crimes? Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 5, oral questions. Your final supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My final supplementary will be a repeat of my last question because the Minister has not answered. I would like to ask the Minister, what is his department, the Department of Justice, the division of corrections, doing to avoid crimes such as this from being committed in the future? What type of deterrents do you have in your justice system from avoiding this reoccurring? Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am quite pleased with the debate and constructive nature of the debate on the changes committed to by the government yesterday in the long-term staff housing strategy. I was pleased to hear the Minister of Personnel say yesterday that he thought the majority of committee recommendations made could be addressed and met by the government. I would like to ask about one area of the motion in which the Minister of Personnel did not comment, and that is the need to index the rental rates and utility charges to reflect differences in climate and costs in the various communities. Could I ask the Minister how he sees that issue being addressed by the government from here on? Thank you.

Minister of Personnel, Mr. Kakfwi.

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to assure the honourable Minister that I would not want to see collective bargaining negotiations take place in this Assembly either. There is a place for those issues. Just to be sure I understand the Minister, Mr. Speaker, do I understand he is saying the issue of indexing the rent formula and utilities charge could be a matter which is properly dealt with in the bargaining process, provided the union agrees?

Mr. Kakfwi.

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

That was a wonderful speech, Mr. Speaker. The Minister is very eloquent. I would like to try to get back to the question I asked which I respectfully -- I remember the question still...

---Laughter

...but I do not think it was answered, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, for those who may have forgotten my question after the long and eloquent speech, my question was, following the first response from the Minister, does he see this issue of adjusting the rental formula and the utility charges to reflect the disparities in the climate and the costs in communities as different as Grise Fiord and Fort Liard? Does he see the place to deal with that issue since he stated yesterday he thought all the issues could be dealt with by the government, through the collective bargaining process? Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

I would like to note something here. I think our rules are not based on individual Minister's philosophical preferences. The rules are fairly straightforward. If a Minister has a philosophical approach the Minister wants to put forward to the House, there is a Minister's statement format in which to give that. Question period is for Ministers to answer questions put by Members. Whether or not Ministers consider those questions appropriate does not take away the right for Members to ask those questions.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Justice. It is again with regard to a certain individual in the women's correctional centre. The Minister wrote to me on March 3 with regard to the situation of how an inmate can stay in the north, even when they receive a sentence which is longer than three years. He refers to the Corrections and Conditional Release Act. My question to the Minister is, under the present Corrections Act of the territories and the federal Corrections and Conditional Release Act, what are the requirements for an inmate to be released on day parole by those two acts? Do they differ? I understand if you serve two thirds of your term you can be released for good behaviour. On day parole, I believe it is after 50 per cent of your term you can be released on day parole to do work or training. I would like to know the criteria with regard to people going out on training or people who are on work release, unsupervised.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question regarding the laws which govern inmates in the territories and the laws which govern inmates in a penitentiary. In the event an agreement is reached with regard to having the inmate serve their term, which is longer than two years in the territories, what laws govern them, the Federal Penitentiary Act or the Corrections Act of the Northwest Territories?

Mr. Kakfwi.

Time for question period has expired. Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, petitions. Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. Item 11, reports of committee on the review of bills. Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Lewis.