Mr. Gargan.
Debates of March 2nd, 1993
Topics
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 710
The Chair John Ningark
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 710
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Why is it not part of the agreement? Is there a reason why it is not?
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 710
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 710
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, as I understand it, the agreements which are negotiated tend to be standardized across the country. This particular service which they provide to us has never been specified in the agreements, although they do it on our behalf. Why it is not articulated in the agreement, I will try to establish why that is and provide that to the Member.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 710
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Gargan.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 710
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Mr. Chairman, unlike other jurisdictions, we do not have provincial police in the Northwest Territories. I would think because the RCMP is the only police force in the NWT, that would be one of the requirements.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 710
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 710
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, the agreement states they are going to provide certain general police services to us. It is not written in a way to specifically say they are going to provide a particular service to us. It is understood that if we make this a priority and indicate this by letter, by saying we expect them to provide a particular service, and if they are properly resourced, they would have no difficulty in providing this.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 710
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Member for Deh Cho.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 710
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The other area I wanted to touch on is with regard to the RCMP complaints commission. You received the report on this. What is the department's position with regard to the recommendation of the report? I do not have a copy of the report. I have been looking for a copy, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps the Minister might be able to inform us of the status of the report.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 710
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 710
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, the Member had made some recommendations with regard to finding ways to make the process for making complaints about policing more accessible, simpler and less intimidating for the general public. We are reviewing this.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 710
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Gargan.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 710
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
For the record, Mr. Chairman, my only concern with regard to the RCMP complaints commission is that the victim has been put on trial again. She has gone through an ordeal trying to answer questions from seven lawyers on the side of the police. This is ridiculous. I did not think the woman would have to go through this.
I have a complaint about the whole justice system. Under this item I have a concern. What is the government's position? Have they addressed this when the agreement was negotiated with regard to the way they handle people who are being subpoenaed to appear as witnesses in the future? Has this been addressed when you were negotiating? The only reason an apology came out was because of the parliamentary hearing with regard to the report itself, in order for the RCMP complaints commission to make it look good. This is my impression of it. Can I have a response from the Minister?
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 710
The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Minister.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 710
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, there are recommendations which are directed toward the federal prosecutors to have them use more common sense and be more diligent about how they carry out their duties and the policies they follow. The same applies to the RCMP. There are recommendations to direct them to be more diligent in the way
in which they carry out their duties and to be more sensitive and use more common sense. We will be monitoring that situation to make sure there is diligence in the future.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 711
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Gargan.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 711
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have one final comment. We are looking for alternatives to the jailing system. Are we also looking at alternatives for the RCMP police services? We should be.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 711
The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Minister.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 711
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, there is interest at the community level. There were a number of communities interested in working out a better understanding and working relationship with the local police, in our case the RCMP. The RCMP have indicated an interest in negotiating a memorandum of understanding with the interested communities regarding new members who come into the community, and what working and living relationship is going to be between the corporal and the rest of the community. So, that is an important development. There is the pilot project we mentioned where a couple of communities will hopefully be able to provide an individual from the community to work with the local RCMP on a volunteer, or part-time basis, to help the community and the RCMP carry out the necessary work together. As of yet, there has not been any suggestions that a whole different police force should be looked at.
We do not rule it out, but again, communities have not made those types of suggestions in any measurable terms yet, so we will see if those types of sentiments develop in the next year or so.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 711
The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. Mr. Gargan.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 711
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Mr. Chairman, the political climate is changing and eventually there will be the creation of Nunavut. I do not know if they are looking at their own police force. Certainly, I want to see a Dene police academy in the western Arctic which could train aboriginal people. I appreciate the Minister's suggestion in regard to people in the communities working with the RCMP, but I am thinking beyond that. If you are suggesting a vision, as you stated in your statement, my vision is that we also should have a separate police system for the Dene people. I am sure the Inuit people are thinking the same way. If you are going to apply justice separate from the existing system, you also have to be able to apply a whole new kind of police force that could apply the new justice system. You cannot expect to change the justice system and have the same police force apply the new system, when they were trained in the other system. Thank you.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 711
The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 711
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, the normal role of the police has been to enforce and make sure the laws of the system are respected and not broken, and that law and good order are maintained. It is being recognized that the system, the laws and sentencing are not adequate. Once the communities start to develop sufficient momentum and we develop the support to get them to carry on in assuming more responsibility and jurisdiction in the area of justice, the idea of developing alternative forms of policing, or peacekeeping, will be looked at. I think it will be a natural development flowing from this type of approach.
Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 711
The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. Police services. Mr. Gargan.