Mr. Speaker, I have a return to Written Question 21-12(3), asked by Mr. Pudluk to the Minister of Renewable Resources, concerning the disposal of DEW Line site and PanArctic oil garbage.

The best method for disposal of industrial garbage depends on many factors, such as type of soil, type of garbage and community concerns.

Final approvals by the Government of Canada for the disposal of industrial garbage by the Department of National Defence and PanArctic Oil have not yet been given. In each case, government and community consultations are continuing in an attempt to determine the best environmentally acceptable disposal methods.

In the specific case of PanArctic Oil, the company has not proposed land burial as a method of waste disposal at their Lougheed Island site because of the high ice content of the soils. If the garbage were buried in these soils, the freezing and thawing action would eventually cause the garbage to rise back out of the ground. The other option for burial is to use gravel, however, this material is not available on Lougheed Island. In the case of the DEW Line sites, burial is an option at some sites because of the type of local soil and because most sites are located near sources of gravel which can be used to bury the garbage.

The Government of the Northwest Territories is continuing to provide advice to the appropriate federal regulatory agency in each case.

I have a return to Written Question 33-12(3), asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on March 25, 1993, to the Minister of Personnel, concerning the hiring of male staff at the territorial women's correctional centre in Fort Smith.

One male staff person has been hired at the territorial women's correctional centre in an administrative position. No male correctional officers or managers have been hired.

The number of applications received from males for employment at the territorial women's correctional centre since it has opened is 30. This was for six competitions.

The number of female employees working as correctional officers, administration staff or managers at the South Mackenzie correctional centre is nine, broken down as follows: seven correctional officers; one administration staff; and one manager.

The number of female employees working as correctional officers, administration staff or managers at the Yellowknife correctional centre is 16, broken down as follows: ten correctional officers, five administration staff; and one manager.

I have a return to written question 34-12(3), asked by Mr. Patterson on March 25, 1993, to the Minister of Personnel, regarding the timing of rental increases under the long-term staff housing strategy.

The Department of Personnel does not intend to contravene the Residential Tenancies Act when implementing the rent increases scheduled for August 1, 1993. Currently, most tenants, with the exception of those who moved in after January 1, 1993, are considered to be on a month-to-month lease. The month-to-month lease states that the rent includes a flat rate charge for utilities.

Under the Residential Tenancies Act month-to-month leases are considered to be in force for an indefinite period and can only be amended with mutual consent. In order for a tenant to pay electrical costs directly to the supplier, a revised lease must be entered into. It is recognized that some tenants may not wish to replace their existing leases. In such cases, the government must continue to pay the full costs, such tenants will have to pay a flat rate for electricity that is equivalent to the average community consumption at the rate the government pays. These rates are much higher than the residential rates which tenants would be subject to if they paid their own electrical costs.

The rent notices which will be in tenant's hands before May 1, 1993, will notify tenants of their new rent. They will be told that the rent includes a charge for electricity that is based on average community consumption at commercial rates. An information package will be included with the rent notice. The package will describe how tenants can reduce their costs by voluntarily paying for electricity directly to the supplier. They will be notified that this will require them to sign a new lease.

Tenants who chose to take advantage of the opportunity for direct payment will simply pay the full rent stated in the rent notice. Those who choose to pay directly and sign a new lease will do so through mutual agreement with the landlord. The flat rate for electrical charges will then be deducted from the overall rent. While the Residential Tenancies Act prohibits more than one increase to any unit in a 12 month period, there is nothing to prohibit an agreement between the landlord and the tenant to decrease the rent in this fashion at any time.

Thank you. Item 7, returns to written questions. Before we proceed to the next item, we will take a 15 minute break.

---SHORT RECESS

This session will come back to order. Item 9, petitions. Mr. Antoine.

Mr. Speaker, we were not concluded with item 8, replies to opening address.

I apologize. Item 8, replies to opening address. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to make a reply to the opening address this afternoon. This is the first time I have had the chance to speak to this item since I was elected.

---Applause

Mahsi. I have thought long and hard about where I am going to focus my remarks, Mr. Speaker. I will probably come back and think about this later and say I should have said this or that. I have put some thoughts down on paper and it is important for me to spend some time talking about government, this government, public government, community government, government for the people.

Mr. Speaker, I have mentioned previously that the rules and procedures we follow in this House have sometimes seemed foreign and unusual to me. They are based on concepts which often do not seem to be consistent with myself as a Dene and the way we do things. I am getting used to working with this European parliamentary system, Mr. Speaker, but sometimes I still wonder about things.

What I wondered about today was the item on the order paper, return to opening address. Like other ordinary Members I am aware what this meant and in the past referred to the Commissioner's opening address. At the beginning of each session the Commissioner delivers an address which is supposed to tell the MLAs what the main business of the session is going to be. At the beginning of this session the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories delivered his address. He did not say very much, Mr. Speaker. Most of the comments were delivered by the Premier in her Minister's statement which she titled "getting down to business."

What I have been wondering about is this, in today's Legislative Assembly what is the significance of the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories. I do not mean this in any way as a personal comment on the work which has been done by Commissioner Dan Norris personally, and I applaud the fact that after many years a respected northern aboriginal person was appointed as Commissioner.

What I am wondering about is the purpose of that position, Mr. Speaker. I am wondering if he is answerable to the Queen, the Premier, to the people of the Northwest Territories, to the communities, to the regional tribal councils, or is he answerable to people in Ottawa, such as Tom Siddon and Rick Van Loon. I am saying this because we in the Northwest Territories are presently dealing with some real contentious issues with the federal government, mainly the health billings dispute, and a great deal of federal off-loading which is going on. Many of the honourable Members have expressed concern in the House with regard to this.

To elaborate on the health billings dispute, Mr. Speaker, I feel that the people who the government are negotiating with in Ottawa are looking at the Commissioner as an employee. I have heard this comment in some of the discussions. That is why I am questioning this position. In other jurisdictions, I understand that the Governor General presides federally over the parliament of Canada and each province has a Lieutenant Governor, these individuals represent the Queen. I am told that she reigns over Great Britain and other countries of the British commonwealth. In the Northwest Territories we have a representative and I am questioning who he is representing, is it the Queen or the powers in Ottawa. I have some concerns about that, Mr. Speaker.

In talking about government, I want to mention that constitutional development in the Northwest Territories will be on the drawing board for the next few years until 1999 when Nunavut territory becomes a reality. Between now and that time we, as Members, in this House will have to do a great deal of work to develop the type of government which is going to be created as a result of division, in the western Northwest Territories. My main concern is that the people at the community level have to be involved from the beginning. I say this with all sincerity because at the present time there are different political groups who are involved. As political groups each group is interested in their own preservation. Because of this, the people at the community level might be overlooked. We have many people in the Northwest Territories who are very intelligent and aware of these sort of things, and they want to be involved. I want to make sure that somehow or another they get involved in the whole constitutional development process from the beginning. That is very important, as far as I am concerned. As I mentioned, in the past, we have seen examples of where people at the community level were not involved in the constitutional development in Canada when the Meech Lake Accord and the Charlottetown Accord were defeated. My feeling is that the people who voted against these did not feel the ownership, they did not feel they were involved from the beginning. As a result this may have been the demise of these two constitutional development initiatives. I do not want to see that sort of situation develop in the north. We are at the very beginning of developing a new constitution. I have to stress the fact that I feel, somehow or another, we have to make sure that people in the Northwest Territories, everyone, is involved from the very beginning. We are developing and creating a future for them and I would like to feel that we are doing that with them rather than for them.

Mr. Speaker, much has been said about the new capital planning process. I support the fact that there is a great opportunity for community consultation in that process. However, the way the process works is that the list of prospective projects is established by people within departments before it goes to local governments. There seems to be very little room for communities to add on to the list once these lists have been developed. The capital planning process simply becomes the process of putting a priority on items which have already been preset. I say this from experience. Last year, when we went through the exercise for the first time, we received a list of priorities per community, and we had to number them one on. In some cases there were requests from communities that were made and they were not on the list. This is the reason why I say that. It is better than before, Mr. Speaker, but it is not good enough yet, for me, it needs to be worked on. It seems to me that the central government is making decisions and giving the community a choice. It seems to be left over from the past where things used to be done with a top down approach. I would like to mention that in the past in the days when there was the office of the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories, people were allowed to make some choices from a list of options. It is left over from those days that I am referring to.

A report called Strength at Two Levels was prepared and the working group who wrote that report said they were trying to reshape government so it would eventually provide services in a more meaningful way. One of the things recommended was the consolidation of certain departments. Several of these consolidations have now been undertaken. So, we have a great deal of reshaping, but my feeling is that it is not leaning towards more meaningful government. It caused a great deal of confusion when that happened.

The corrections transfer as an example, community corrections specialists were transferred from one department to another but they did not know what the implications were going to be. The people they worked with were unclear about what the implications were going to be at the community level, and it seemed like no one from the government talked to them. They had many concerns but it is difficult to determine whether anyone listened to them at this point. The key stakeholders with interest in corrections should have been included in these discussions. To shape the government according to the wishes of the people is what we are talking about here.

People in my communities have wondered if there is going to be a shift in the philosophy within corrections at this point. It is very clear that people who go into careers in social services tend to have a certain way of looking at the world and they are used to working with people on a very humane and personal level. They tend to have human concerns first and they usually go into that line of work because people interest them and they have good skills for interacting with others. It seems for me that people who pursue careers dealing with law often do not have that same outlook in the corrections area. They seem to be more focused on the regulations and structural system, rather than people who make up the system. This is not always the case of course, but I think there is a great deal of evidence of these trends within the research that has been done on vocational attitudes.

When corrections was transferred, it was turned over to administrators with justice type mentalities. That caused some anxiety at the community level. People are questioning whether this will lead to major changes in community corrections programming. They wonder if the philosophy is going to change and, if so, who is going to decide on how it will change? So far, no one from Yellowknife has seemed to have taken the effort to check on these concerns, as far as I am concerned at this time. There is no attempt to take the time to communicate with communities about the corrections transfer, about what it means at the local level and whether the basic service philosophy is going to change.

If there are going to be major changes in the shape of this government then there has to be better communication with the communities. Ultimately, the purpose of this government is to provide programs and services to people at the community level and the way the reshaping is going to happen has to be communicated to them before, during and after the transfer.

I would like to talk more about the process of consolidation, decentralization and community transfer. These are processes to which this government has made a commitment. Basically, I agree with the idea of decentralization. There are many benefits I see. It creates business opportunities at the community and regional levels, it helps more economic growth, and it opens career opportunities for people in the communities and regions who otherwise would not have that opportunity if decentralization did not occur.

For communities which are targeted to receive decentralization programs and services, it is a positive rather than a negative. Sometimes I wonder about the fact that not enough consideration is given to dealing with the very real personal concerns of headquarters people whose lives are disrupted by the decision to decentralize programs. Government devolution should not happen in a manner which abuses people. I am also aware that some communities have been left out when it comes to considering places to target decentralization or community transfer initiatives.

Mr. Speaker, communities like Trout Lake, Jean Marie River and Nahanni Butte are all going to need a higher level of awareness and greater coordination of community interest in order to make a strong presentation in favour of community transfer.

That makes me want to take a hard look at the territorial Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. The goals for this department indicate it is supposed to support the development of competent local governments and attractive, safe and health communities. They are supposed to emphasize training. They are supposed to establish a two week communication flow between the GNWT and communities. I do not think they have accomplished any of these, in some cases, Mr. Speaker, and I do not know why they have not done their work properly. I do not know what is wrong with the department. Perhaps the problem starts at the top with a lack of enthusiasm for demonstrating an approach to leadership in that department.

Clearly, something is wrong because when I go to Nahanni Butte, little children tell me they do not want to drink the water because it is yellow and it stinks. When I go into other communities I hear that municipal facilities are not adequate and that people are yearning for more training to take on important roles with their local governments. When these issues are raised in the house, the Minister responds to generalities and at times takes questions as notice.

To address the problems which plague our communities, government departments are going to have to do more than simply deliver programs. They are going to have to take a developmental approach. They are going to have to take a human resource approach to meeting community needs. They are not doing it now, Mr. Speaker, they are using a philosophy which still reflects the days of Commissioner Hodgson. The days when Ottawa did things because it seemed to be good government, instead of being aimed at meeting the needs of the people.

Mr. Speaker, I feel that the Department of Health needs to focus more on human resources too. During the public hearings on the comprehensive health audit, I made a presentation which expressed my dismay and concern over the totally inadequate job that the department has done in hiring aboriginal people within the health system. I want to point out that for years the territorial government has blamed its failure to promote career development on the education system. This idea of passing the buck to the Department of Education and to our schools in the communities is an old trick and just a way of avoiding accountability.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Health should realize that it is a part of the education system. If the department has been unable to increase the number of managers and health professionals, then the department should be the place where the motivation to change is coming from. It is time for the department to start taking a pro-active approach to supporting skill development and training that will enable aboriginal people to take their rightful place in the administration and delivery of health services. It is time for them to stop sitting back and waiting for the school system to turn out graduates that the health officials regard as good enough to join their club. Brochures will not do it.

Blaming aboriginal people for high dropout rates at community schools will not do it either. The department's human resource division should take a whole new approach. It should get out into the communities and identify people, youth, young adults and elders who are interested in health. It should develop individualized training programs which give them access to the courses and support to assist the need to broaden the skills they already have. There can be an increase in the number of aboriginal people in the health system, but it will not happen unless departmental officials get out of their comfortable offices in Centre Square tower and reach out pro-actively to the communities.

In making that point, I want to say how happy I am that a new nursing diploma program will be started this fall. Again, though, both the Department of Health and Arctic College are going to have to stay carefully attuned to what the communities want. They are going to have to consult widely on program content and they are going to have to make sure that appropriate efforts have been made to attract aboriginal people into this program and that these promotional efforts are well planned. Again, to my way of thinking, this has not been happening.

This system of government has started out entirely wrong. It is a system that is more interested in governing than it is in meeting the needs of the people. As we look back over our history, I think it is important to pinpoint one or two significant moments.

I would like to refer to an incident which I became aware of which occurred, I understand, in 1977 and was labelled the Baker Lake affair. I understand a group of consultants stumbled into a controversy when they were attempting to run the community development workshops in the Keewatin. Their approach was to develop a type of workshop that was aimed at empowering people, an approach that had been modified from work on community development at the University of Chicago. One of the main sources for this work was the writings of a sociologist. The philosophy was to teach people a way of more independent thinking and to give them an approach for representing that thinking in a forceful way to authority figures. It was a philosophy that encouraged people to draw on the strengths of their heritage and their collective know-how and it gave them the tools to access peaceful radicals in bringing their concerns forward. The controversy occurred when the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories, Stuart Hodgson, found out about this and would not allow the workshop to go ahead. Instead, a model of guided democracy was imposed from the Commissioner's office at that time. Even the name "guided democracy" sounds manipulative. Their approach was aimed at giving the people the structure to work within, a style of government that they had to accept if they wanted to meet basic needs.

Mr. Speaker, I consider that to be a shameful incident from our past and one which created implications that have stayed with us through the years. The government of the day, the federal government, the Commissioner, should have been helping the people toward a more intellectual awakening. It should have been assisting communities to get in touch with their own roots. Instead, they were teaching them to accept Canadian models of civics.

Around the same time we were also struggling with community development here in the west, and actually, I felt that we made some progress, but it seems that every time we would start closing in on our larger goals, funding would be cut off. The same thing, to a large degree, is still happening today.

The result of these historical patterns has been that we are left with a highly structured government that simply did not match the character of the people. It was not tied in closely enough with the communities in which people live.

We can try to address that now through constitutional development and reform and by reshaping northern government, but all I tend to hear about in this House revolves around structures and organizational procedures. You can transfer a division of any department to any community but that does not make it make it reflect the Dene or Inuit way.

All of our focus on government reshaping seems to focus only on changing the structure of government. You very rarely hear about the changes that are necessary in terms of outlook, in terms of philosophy or in terms of public service attitudes. These are what will really reshape northern government, Mr. Speaker. We need more fresh thinking, we need more sensitivity to the communities' struggle and we need more recognition of traditional knowledge and the strength that comes from our heritage as aboriginal people. Perhaps the government should consider building a system of community development workers. This comes close to one of the recommendations in the 11th Assembly SCONE report.

The bottom line and the highest priority must come together. Both of them should be aimed at assisting the development of the people's skills at the community level. We must embark on a process of empowering communities. This has to be done through a human resource approach. You can give a community fire trucks, hydro plants, a list of capital projects to priorize and hockey rinks, but you must work with the people.

We have to forget about guided democracy and allow our system of government to emerge from the grass roots. Much has been said during this session about the consensus government, Mr. Speaker, but I must say, as an aboriginal person, this is the best form of government that we have up here. I have been in the south and have seen the party system, and I agree that we are fortunate up here that we do not have the party system, and this consensus government is an aboriginal form of government and it reflects the way things are done in the north. In the party system it is difficult to represent the people right at the grass roots level, at the community level. In the consensus government, we are able to all sit together and able to discuss things. The reason why we are here is to represent the people and because of that I agree that consensus government at this point is a good form of government for us in the north. The parliamentary structure, however, is the foundation that it sits on. I would like to relate it to starting a building, the Government of the Northwest Territories, many years ago. The foundation was square. Once we finished the foundation we realized that we wanted a traditional model so we built a teepee or an igloo, both of which are circular. I think that is the kind of a building that we have at this time, Mr. Speaker, and sometimes it works and sometimes it does not, but that is the best we have up here in the north.

This has always been a land of harmony and a land where the structures of government matched the people rather than making the people match a system of government. Dene and Inuit were governing themselves long before there was a Legislative Assembly, long before there was a Commissioner of the Northwest Territories and long before there was even a

Canada. It is time we recognized that and allow a true reshaping of northern government to take place.

Mr. Speaker, before I conclude, I would like to touch on a few constituency matters and concerns.

People in Nahendeh have expressed a great appreciation in Fort Simpson for the grade extension to Grade 12. In Fort Simpson, we consider the first graduation ceremony on June 5-6 to be an historical occasion for us, and we hope to have many more of these over the years. I would like to invite all honourable Members to attend, if possible, to share this special day with the students, parents and teachers in the community of Fort Simpson.

Mr. Speaker, I am also very pleased about some of the infrastructure that is going into the northern part of my constituency in the Wrigley area where the highway is being constructed and a bridge is being built. This will provide some employment opportunities, at least for a short time, and will open up new transportation capabilities that will benefit the whole region. Mr. Speaker, I would like to suggest that the highway be continued down the Mackenzie Valley. One of the suggestions I have heard is that many years ago in my constituency there was a program called hire north program where local people were hired and a major part of the highways in my constituency were built by northern people in this hire north program. The suggestion is to go back to that program and inch our way up north year by year, and at least that is something that we will eventually accomplish. We are eager to see the continuation of this highway down the Mackenzie Valley, Mr. Speaker, and I would encourage the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism to provide a program similar to hire north as a means of hiring local people to build the road. I believe that the decision to complete this road extension could be a gesture from the Government of the Northwest Territories to show that it has been listening to the people of the Mackenzie communities.

Finally, I continue to be concerned about the administration of alcohol and drug programs and about the Department of Health. In both cases, I think it is clear that the bureaucracy is resistant to listening to the people it serves and to respecting the fact that skill and knowledgable field work occurs in the field. I hope over the next few months the Honourable Rebecca Mike will be able to take corrective action knowing she has full Cabinet support for the decisions which have to be made.

Mr. Speaker, this concludes my comments this afternoon. I would like to wish all my honourable colleagues and their families a safe and good summer. I look forward to staying in touch with each of you and to meeting with you in the fall in our new Legislative Assembly building. Mr. Speaker, I will see you at the next Commissioner's opening address. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, petitions. Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. Item 11, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table Tabled Document 136-12(3), a letter published in the Nunatsiaq News dated February 28, 1993, from Dr. William Fitzhugh, director of Arctic Studies Centre of the Smithsonian Institution, Washington, DC, entitled "Iqaluit lost more than museum extension." Thank you.

Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have three documents to table. Tabled Document 137-12(3), Proposed Bill, An Act to Amend the Cities, Towns and Villages Act.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document. Tabled Document 138-12(3), Proposed Bill, An Act to Amend the Hamlets Act.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document. Tabled Document 139-12(3), Proposed Bill, An Act to Amend the Charter Communities Act. Thank you.

Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Antoine.

Mr. Speaker, I was recovering from my maiden speech in replies to opening address, and I would like to see unanimous consent to return to petitions, please.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Item 9, petitions. We will return to Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table the following document. Tabled Document 140-12(3), a copy of a letter which was provided to me by Mr. Peter Kritaqlilik, chairman of the Keewatin divisional board of education. The original correspondence was forwarded to the Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment Programs and deals with concerns regarding board autonomy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Pursuant to section 32(3) of the Financial Administration Act, I wish to table the following document. Tabled Document 141-12(3) a list of funds transferred exceeding $250,000 for the period November 20, 1992 to March 15, 1993. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 12, tabling of documents. Item 13, notices of motion. Mr. Kakfwi.