Agreed.

---Agreed

Mr. Chairman, as soon as I conclude this, I will make available copies so that Members can have copies of the document.

Thank you. I appreciate the consideration by my colleagues.

Mr. Chairman, although we have capital standards and criteria for child care facilities, and while we all agree on the needs of these services to provide for early childhood education programs and to allow parents to pursue training and employment, particularly in the smaller communities, I want to advise Members, we have received no extra funding for construction of new facilities where they do not exist or are not provided through private sector investment. We are challenged to find ways to accommodate necessary program space through existing resources so that we may invest in our children in these early formative years.

Education, Culture and Employment is also supporting capital construction projects to promote and maintain aboriginal culture. I am pleased to advise that I have received approval to develop a capital program to support the development of cultural institutes. I expect to announce the details of this program towards the end of this Assembly. Again, the resources for this program will come from current allocation levels.

Mr. Chairman, as part of our renewed commitment to improving services to the people of the NWT, my staff are continually looking for ways to make links between the variety of programs offered by the department. We are well aware that our capital projects have a great potential to support training programs, local employment and help stimulate local economies.

I am pleased to note that Education, Culture and Employment is a partner in the building and learning strategy, with the Department of Public Works and Services, which uses capital projects to train northerners in trades related to the construction trades. The size of our capital projects alone results in community benefits through local involvement, employment and support for existing service sectors.

Further, Mr. Chairman, I am pleased, on behalf of our government, to be able to provide for delivery of the Canada/NWT infrastructure program. The $10.8 million cost-shared program will contribute to infrastructure as well as provide jobs in all our communities. The program will be administered in a manner similar to the $6 million NWT worker training fund that was delivered last year. It differs somewhat from the approach we used, however, because we had to design the approval process around the conditions placed upon us by federal/territorial agreements on cost-sharing.

Mr. Chairman, the Northwest Territories is undergoing a time of great change, including the creation of two new territories, the settlement of land claims and increased self-government. I believe that these changes will greatly benefit people in the regions and smaller communities, but it is important that all our partners manage change in an informed and consistent way. Education, Culture and Employment would like to be recognized as a leader in assisting and aiding the people of the Northwest Territories in working towards a new and exciting future. We believe that the changes we have already made to our capital planning process will help provide the infrastructure necessary to provide educational, cultural and employment programs.

Mr. Chairman, we appreciate very much the assistance of this Assembly in proposing, promoting and supporting innovation and the balance we must have in investment across all government programs.

Mr. Chairman, regrettably and despite our best efforts, we will not be able to meet the expectations of the people of the NWT, who are just beginning to see the impact of financial restraint in Canada, but who recognize the value and importance of education, training and cultural facilities in support of the development of our society. It is becoming increasingly difficult to develop a capital plan, given our resources and the needs. The proposed capital estimates for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment strive to balance the need for capital programs with available resources. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On Education, Culture and Employment, the Standing Committee on Finance continues to believe that education should be the most important priority of the government. When northerners are better educated, they will not only be better able to govern and administer their own affairs, they will be better able to care for themselves. While spending in this department, as a percentage of the total budget, has increased somewhat in recent years, committee Members are still concerned that spending on education does not reflect its deserved number one status.

Providing Social Services To Students In The School

The most prominent educational issue discussed by committee Members involved the provision of social services to children in schools. The transfer of the early childhood education -- day care -- program to this department is one example. Not only does it allow young mothers to continue to attend school knowing that there is care available for their children, it also gives students opportunities to learn about early childhood education, either as foundation for a possible career or to learn parenting skills for their own future families. This is an example where using school facilities to provide a social service can have significant future benefits.

Committee Members also discussed providing other services in schools by making space in schools for social workers, health workers and/or police available, to assist students with their social needs. While the department has made some efforts in this area, they have not met the committee's recommendation, made in the review of the 1994-95 main estimates, to establish pilot projects along the lines of the partners for youth projects under way in Edmonton and other cities. In response, the committee recommends in its report, Investing in Our Future, that the government plan and implement a school-based youth services program during the final year of the government's term.

Growing expenses and social costs related to crime, alcohol and drug abuse and family violence are becoming more and more difficult for northerners to bear. Committee Members feel quite strongly that early intervention is the key to long-term success in this area. That is, children must be given the opportunity to resolve problems and handle these issues as early as possible. This is why the integration of social services and educational facilities is seen as such an important area. The committee strongly urges the department to make stronger efforts to provide this early intervention, in order to improve the lives of northerners in the long-term.

New Capital Standards

Committee Members appreciate the presentation of the department's new capital standards and criteria. It is still quite expensive to build schools in the north, so it is important to always look for opportunities to make the best use of funds available. Both the new standards and improved cooperation with the Department of Public Works and Services, can help meet that objective.

Cooperation With Land Claims Organizations

In his opening remarks, the Minister also mentioned that his department would be working with land claims organizations. Where programs relating to education are part of the land claims agreement for a particular organization, the department will be working with them in order to make the best use of all resources available in that area. Committee Members look forward to seeing the results of these cooperative efforts.

Housing For Arctic College Students

Adequate housing for students attending Arctic College campuses in the NWT is still an important issue. The committee understands that the department is completing a study that would incorporate a long-term plan for college residences. Committee Members look forward to seeing the results of this study, and to seeing this plan implemented in future years. Also, the committee is looking forward to seeing the long-awaited corporate plans for the eastern and western colleges.

Canada-NWT Infrastructure Program Agreement

When the federal government and the GNWT negotiated funding under the Canada-NWT Infrastructure Program, Members appreciated being presented with the relevant information by the chairman of the FMB on such a prompt basis. The funds provided under this program will help advance or expand projects that will make a difference to northerners, both through the jobs they create and from the resulting capital projects. Committee Members understand that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment will be the lead department in implementing this agreement, and encourage the department to make the best use possible of this opportunity.

Video Production

In the reviews of the 1994-95 capital estimates and main estimates, the committee raised concerns regarding the purchase of video production equipment in the departments of Education, Culture and Employment and Renewable Resources. In February 1994, those departments provided the committee with a briefing on in-house video production in the government. The essence of this briefing was that most of the government's video production spending goes to the private sector, and that most of the in-house spending is for production of the TVNC youth series The Tube.

Following that briefing, the committee asked the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to provide more detailed information on the cost of producing The Tube. The committee also suggested, "that the Department contract the production of two episodes of 'The Tube' to the private sector as a test case." (Hansard, 12th Assembly, 5th Session, March 15, 1994, page 603. Statement by Mr. Antoine.)

Until the information requested has been received, and until the results of the pilot project are known, committee Members do not feel it is appropriate to recommend approval of further in-house capital expenditures. Once the pilot project has been evaluated, a decision can then be made on replacement of equipment and the future of GNWT video production.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just for the advice of my colleagues so it is clear, there was a request for proposals for the production of two segments of The Tube. However, only one proposal was received. That was received from Pido Productions. What we found, as a result of the additional information we required, was that the costs of producing one or two of those episodes would be the same for the total costs of producing the project. In other words, the total costs of those two episodes would have represented, almost, the costs for total production.

What we then did, Mr. Chairman, was divide it and gave Pido Productions a number of portions of the proposal they submitted and they did the work. But, it was quite complex and the requirements were quite substantive, both financially and in terms of human resource time. So, while the honourable Members may have the impression that we didn't do anything, we did, and we found that the capacity for doing the job was not there.

Mr. Chairman, I know that this government has received excellent value from the Inuit Broadcasting Corporation for its requirements. I think about the material produced on AIDS prevention and other programs that have been done on the social side, dealing with public information and education on spousal assault and other issues.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe the advertisement was run in newspapers across the Northwest Territories. Also, various organizations were sent copies of the advertisement. But, they decided from a practical, financial expenditure perspective, not to apply. We went directly to IBC to ask them to provide us with a specific product and they were capable of doing it. In fact, the advantage in the case of IBC is they already have the total system set up. In the case of Pido Productions, they didn't have that system set up, yet they were the only ones who sent in a proposal.

So, what that showed was that IBC knew what the cost requirements were and probably were a bit concerned about the overall costs of production. They have done excellent work for us and I think their experience has probably taught them some lessons in terms of the requirements for production. As such, they chose not to submit a proposal.

I want to refresh Members on this issue. There was a deeper concern that this committee has had and Members have had in the last two or three years. There seems to be, in different departments, a proliferation of more and more video equipment and more and more, and more of the government doing something which can very easily be done by the private sector. This committee over the last couple of years has, on a number of occasions, raised this as an issue.

The Minister, in the last O and M budget, came before the committee and gave us an undertaking that if we supported the existing level of resources to the department in this area, he would ensure that any new resources would go to the private sector; that was the deal. At that time, if the Minister remembers, we were very seriously considering cutting out that whole section. The Minister and his staff made a strong case for existing resources, and we had given that as only one example; one task for the Minister to just have a look at the value. But it was symptomatic of a deeper concern that we had.

Now we see, again, more expenditure of money in an area which logically lends itself to the private sector so the committee is concerned about that. And it doesn't seem to be going along with what we thought was the understanding we had reached with the Minister when we went through this last time. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I appreciate the comments, but if you note, Mr. Chairman, and Members will note, one of the criticisms was that we would try to contract the productions of two episodes. I was trying to advise the honourable Members that we have tried to do that, lived up to the commitment that I made to Members of the House, and the results were not fruitful. But there was still work that was given to the private sector as a result of that particular proposal. So I want you to be aware of that because I don't want Members to be left with the impression that we're not trying to make an effort.

The other issue is, it goes on to indicate, Mr. Chairman, that once a pilot project was evaluated, a decision can be made on the replacement. Well, we've done the evaluation, Mr. Chairman, and I'm trying to advise the honourable Members that this effort and the recommendation were not successful. I do understand the concern that was raised by the Member for Yellowknife North, but the issue was that we were trying to replace a camera to continue with the work. That was all we were trying to do.

I'm really trying to understand this, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the Minister's statement that the department made an effort to contract these episodes. I guess my concern is that when one compares costs in the private sector -- I don't like to use that term because I think we're looking at non-profit organizations like communications societies, as well as companies like Pido Productions -- with the cost of doing them in government, it's not always a fair comparison because when governments budget the cost of doing a television program, departments don't have to worry about the costs of employees' salaries and benefits, for example. Departments don't have to worry about the costs of utilities, oil and electricity, for example, because the Department of Education doesn't have to pay the oil and electricity bills in the government building where the program is produced. It's another department and another ministry like the Department of Personnel or Finance that covers the VTA and the medical benefits and the like. I don't need to go on and on. So I guess, Mr. Chairman, I have to ask the Minister if he's saying they couldn't meet our budget. No one was interested in tendering for a reasonable price. I'm wondering whether those overhead costs were considered, those costs that are borne by the outside company, considering that they're absorbed in-house with the government departments. Was it a fair comparison? Thank you.

No, Mr. Chairman. What I'm trying to advise the honourable Members is this: for instance, right now, the comparison of in-house costs versus contracting, fully burdened personnel costs of 3.9 PYs is $237,000, less 20 per cent for non-production activities was $47,000, which calculated, including O and M and including $150,000 for studio lease -- or less 20 per cent, I should say -- which was $189,600. O and M, including $150,000 for studio lease and contract was $366,000. Equipment based on the value of $350,000, depreciated over 10 years was $35,000, for a total cost of $509,600.

The number of shows -- 26 -- the average cost was $22,712 for the department. For private sector cost, the estimated costs for 26 episodes was $1,384,812. The estimated cost per show was $53,262.

If you look at the cost increase to government, we would require an additional $794,212. Just so that you're aware of that. Still we wish to carry out the advice of my colleagues. But I just wanted you to be aware about two things. One, we did try to carry out the advice that was given and we continue to do it, but I wanted you to be aware that these were additional costs that were associated.

We do still have arrangements with IBC whenever we think there's a need for them, and, in fact, in cases we'll call directly for proposals from those organizations.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the information that was provided by the Minister is most interesting, although it's difficult to analyze it here on the floor of the House.

Mr. Chairman, I just want to ask one further question. I note the Minister's commitment that he is still wishing to carry out the intent of this motion. I guess my question would be then, since I understand this equipment budget, these monies that we're voting on now, is to purchase new video equipment, and since the Minister is saying we'd like to find a way to involve the private sector and to carry out the intent of the motion, could the department not get by for another period of time with the present equipment and not make a sizeable capital investment in new equipment. Thank you.