Thank you, Mr. Ng. The motion was originally read when you read the report, but this is your motion now. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

---Applause

Madam Premier, would you like to take the stand and bring in your witnesses, please? Do Members agree?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Members agree. Madam Premier, go ahead.

I would like to recognize Mr. Merlyn Williams, an alderman-elect to the city council of Yellowknife. He has just entered the visitor's gallery.

---Applause

Madam Premier, would you like to introduce your witnesses, please?

Mr. Chairman, I have with me the deputy minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ken Lovely and the director of capital planning, Norm Hatlevik.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Do any Members have any general comments, statement or questions they would like to raise with this department? Mr. Koe.

General Comments

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. For obvious reasons, I'm very pleased with the capital plan of this restructured department of Health and Social Services. The departments have, in their good wisdom, included several projects that are urgently required in Inuvik. They were mentioned in the Minister's opening remarks. The hospital, the need for which I've been raising since I've been in this House, seriously needs to be looked at, and the planning is well under way.

Also, the group home for handicapped adults -- and when we get to that specific page, I'll be asking questions on that project -- is one that fits in with the policy of repatriating people from the south to northern institutions. Also in the plans is money for an alcohol and drug centre in Inuvik. That has to be seriously considered in view of the problems we have with alcohol and drug abuse in the north.

The one caution I would like to make is that it is really imperative in doing major project planning, that we get as much local and community input in the planning phases and, eventually, in the design phases of these projects. Without community and local support, we always seem to run into problems and we are always backtracking. I would like to say thank you to the departments for the work they've done and for listening to the concerns of the residents of Inuvik and for including the projects in the plan.

As always, though, there is something missing. I've listened very carefully to the questions and statements made by my colleagues from other communities about the need for elders' residences. The people in Inuvik are no different. There has been a needs study done; an assessment of the requirements of our senior citizens in Inuvik and I think the numbers warrant careful consideration. Eventually, we have to look at something for that community. Within the region, itself, there are a lot of elders and I think we have to look at the needs of the regions and determine the best possible locations for elders' centres.

But, generally, I'm pleased with the work the department has done in terms of capital planning and I want to say, again, mahsi cho.

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Are there any other Members with general statements, comments or questions? Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in the departmental overview, item 4 implies that social well-being and independence of the aged, disabled, and mentally handicapped are supported and promoted. Mr. Chairman, to me that means that we have to look after our elders. Even when the elders are not able to look after themselves, there may be some requirement to send the elders from one community to another where there is an elders' facility.

Mr. Chairman, when we talk about the elders in our communities, we are, in fact, talking about those people who have looked after us from the time we were too young to care for ourselves. When you move an elder from his or her community to another community where there is an elders' centre, you are taking away the pride of that person, whether they be a man or a woman, especially when that person is native to his or her community. That person is taken to a strange environment, the language is different and the food is different.

I've talked to people in my area, in the Kitikmeot region, not only in Pelly Bay, Gjoa Haven and Taloyoak, but as well, other communities like Coppermine and Cambridge Bay.

Mr. Chairman, I remember many years ago, about 20 to 30 years ago, there was an elder who was too old to look after himself and he was sent to Aklavik. The communication was not very good at that time. We rarely heard anything from that person, only by word of mouth through another person who would have travelled to Aklavik and come back to the community and talked to his family. But in the end, we heard that the old man was very ill and he wanted to go back to his community. He never complained when he was in Pelly Bay. He knew he was leaving the town but he never complained. But in the end, when the man was critically ill, he finally told his family that he wanted to stay at home with his family.

Subsequently, because the man was introduced to a different community, different lifestyle, different language, different culture, that was the cause of his illness in the end.

Mr. Chairman, I have talked with the people of Gjoa Haven, especially the mayor of Gjoa Haven. The community profoundly wants their own facility for elders. Even Taloyoak wants their own facility, Pelly Bay wants their own facility, Coppermine and Cambridge Bay. We are not able to accomplish that, we know, because we don't have all the resources needed to facilitate every community. But I hope that -- and I need your support, my colleagues -- that we will be able to have a facility in the Kitikmeot; one for the west and one for the east. I also hope that every region will be able to enjoy facilities in their own region.

Mr. Chairman, I know it's very difficult and very hard to try and get a facility for every community and every region, and I know that the department is trying very hard to promote the well-being of the elders, the handicapped, the disabled and so on. Mr. Chairman, that is my comment. Thank you.

Thanks, Mr. Ningark. General comments. Any further general comments? Are we ready to go into the book? Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. These are general comments. I guess I don't have to speak on the elders' residence issue just yet; the Minister and the departmental staff are aware of my position on it. But I would like to ask for some clarification since this budget that's coming forward does have funding to two elders' residences, and we're aware that the funding from the federal CMHC has been virtually eliminated now. So, has the department acknowledged and taken on the responsibilities for funding for elders' residences now within our territorial programs? Thank you.

Any response?

Mr. Chairman, in the issue of the elders' residence and the requirement for extraordinary needs and the fact that the federal government continues not to respond to the request of restoration of funds as we've had in the past, the department, with the Housing Corporation, feels compelled to try to address the problem with the resources that we do have. But that is not to say that the communications with the federal government and federal agency are not ongoing. However, there are some needs that have to be met and we're going to try to do that with bringing together a strategy on some of those immediate needs, as well as a longer-term strategy on housing for elders.

Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In relation to a different item, family violence shelters, that I had spoken on earlier. I recognize that the department doesn't provide capital, but I know it's related to the overall budget in that they provide operating funds for these shelters. So, does the department, first of all, have any family violence shelters that they actually own outright, or is it strictly that they provide operating money for existing facilities, I would like to ask. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Madam Premier.

Mr. Chairman, the Member is correct in saying that we do provide contributions for such a program, but we do not, to my knowledge, have ownership of any particular building in that category.

Thank you very much. Mr. Ng.

In some communities, I'm aware of the Katimavik Society one in Cambridge Bay, where they have a charity lease of a GNWT building, then they receive funding to provide the crisis shelter for the community. In that circumstance, in effect, the government is providing the capital residence or the capital facility for operating that program, although it's not designated outright under the Department of Health and Social Services. Is that the case in the majority of these family violence shelters?

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Madam Premier.

Mr. Chairman, the Member is correct in saying that in almost all instances, there is a lease arrangement, whether it's a charity lease or whether we're leasing a unit through the contribution agreements. But I should make a correction that we do, as the Government of the Northwest Territories, have a family violence shelter in Iqaluit which is under the ownership of the Government of the Northwest Territories. But all the other shelters are also provided facilities by CMHC, or leased.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Are you finished, Mr. Ng? Mr. Ng.

Another general question regarding elders' centres, and I'm not referring to residences now. I recognize in some communities that I've had the opportunity to go to...In Rankin Inlet, there's an elders' centre that's being constructed by a private organization, the Rankin Inlet Royal Yacht Club, I believe. They are putting together the facility, plus they're providing some of the operating funds for the elders' centre. There is one in Iqaluit; a very nice one that the Members of the Standing Committee on Finance had an opportunity to see, which is funded and provided by the Royal Canadian Legion in Iqaluit. I know in my constituency, in Cambridge Bay, the community, through private donations, from the hamlet council and from volunteer labour, have put together...And I think many of the Members have had an opportunity to see that one in Cambridge Bay. It's not a fancy unit, by any means, but nevertheless it's there. There's been a lot of community initiative to get it established, but they've been running into some difficulties, I guess, in finding the operating funds. I would like to ask, as far the Department of Health and Social Services, is it within their mandate and responsibility to address elders' needs as it relates to this type of facility where it's not specifically housing but deals with their social well-being? Thank you.

Thanks, Mr. Ng. Madam Premier.

Mr. Chairman, in that particular category I'm not aware that the Government of the Northwest Territories has a specific program for the provision of a recreation type meeting place for elders. In all the spaces that are provided, there is generally a community space that is used by everybody, under the recreation program. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Ng.

Is there any department in the GNWT, or federally, that she is aware of, that could address this type of need?

Thank you, very much, Mr. Ng. Madam Premier.

Mr. Chairman, I know that, in some circumstances where there is a friendship centre, often times in the funding for the friendship centre category -- I think it is with the Secretary of State -- there is a provision for a room or two for elders; it is incorporated in the overall federal plan for friendship centres. My understanding is that they continue to be cut financially, or the total contribution is still under a lot of scrutiny for cuts as we move along. I'm not aware that there is a specific program for elders in federal coffers for the type of facilities the Member is referring to.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Ng.

One final question before I give other Members the opportunity to make general comments. I would like to ask the Premier about youth, who are in a different situation in that -- from what I understand from my area -- they don't have any facilities. They don't even have a strong group of supporters or advocates for their position, except for the odd council member or maybe an MLA who is looking at their issues. I would like to ask, would it be in the mandate of this Department of Health and Social Services or some other department of our government to deal with youth issues? Thank you.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Mr. Chairman, I know there are limitations on youth and we do expend some funds under the Department of Health and Social Services for drug and alcohol youth programs. We have a small contribution that can be accessed. The Minister of Education and ourselves were looking at an area, but it has become a federal funding program under the Secretary of State. This funding is handled by the Honourable Ethel Blondin-Andrew. I know quite a number of communities have accessed that program. If I can remember correctly, there is something like $250,000 in this year's funding that hasn't been allocated at this time. But, that is a federal program, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Are you done, Mr. Ng? I would like to recognize, and I'm sure the Inuit in the House would like to recognize, Mr. Louis Pilakapsi, who is in our gallery.

---Applause

On my list, I have Mr. Gargan next.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this is one area in which I don't mind saying that Members have been quite effective, at least in the Deh Cho region. One of the main reasons for that is because we don't really have a board to deal with. When I do experience problems, I phone the Minister or even the regional director. We've been able to get assistance for medical travel, or whatever the case may be.

I would like to say that there is a program initiated by the federal government regarding the national strategy to deal with urgent health priorities of First Nations and Inuit. The whole initiative is to provide First Nations with the tools necessary to tackle the physical or mental health issues they face.

Even though we don't have a health board in the region, my health hasn't deteriorated or improved that much. Life goes on. I appreciate that the department is doing its job in delivering health in the Deh Cho region, regardless of whether we have a board or not.

I would like to see what all the regions will be deciding regarding the creation of a Mackenzie health board in the region. Naturally, if we don't create one, we will have fewer hurdles to deal with in the event that the inherent right of self-government is implemented in the region. This is the political reality in the Deh Cho region. I would like to see the region determine what is in their best interest at this point in time, and whether they decide to even consider spending a large amount of dollars necessary to create a board, when we really need to set our priorities straight because of the budget restraint.

Mr. Chairman, in Fort Providence, there is going to be a little over $1 million spent on the renovation of the health centre. I don't know how much consultation has taken place, but I know that, as part of their own community plans, there is a possibility that the existing nursing station may be required to locate to a different area. If the community decides to repriorize their agenda in the area of health, then I think the hamlets, the bands and, of course, the nursing stations should be consulted about how they feel the best way to solve the issue is.

I don't think we should be spending a large amount of money if the priorities of the community of Fort Providence have changed. I say that because I know the local hamlet band have taken a different view. The view is that a lot of commercial and business areas are all by the river banks. They feel those should be residential areas. They are looking at rezoning it. The nursing station may be too far out of the way, and they would like to see it moved closer to the centre of the community.

In the event this happens, at least that will free up some money in Providence to other areas that might need it more at this time. I would like to ask that the department consult and ensure we don't spend money now that we might spend later on.

The other thing is with regard to the Hay River group home. I don't know if that has been an issue, but there are family group homes in the capital budget. I want to get an update as to what has been happening with the group home in Hay River, and whether you anticipate further expenditures or, are we looking at some of the recommendations made by Mr. Cooper about the operation of the group home? His recommendation is that most of the people in the group homes are aboriginal people and it should be run by aboriginal people.

Finally, Mr. Chairman, we've met with the Minister of Health and Social Services on the Hay River Reserve. I would like to express my thanks to the Minister for that. But also, they brought up certain issues that needed to be addressed, and most of them were with regard to the operation of the alcohol and drug treatment centre on the reserve itself. The landscaping issue has not been quite resolved, and some of the landscaping that was done wasn't done right. I think this was brought up with the Minister and the Minister is aware of it. Of course, in the summertime, the building itself, because the limited number of opening windows, has made it quite hot. I hope that the Minister will address that somehow.

My very, very last comment is with regard to the creation of the Mackenzie Health Board. If you do decide to go ahead with something like this, I would hope that you consider Fort Providence as the operating point. Thank you.

A response to any or all of those comments, Madam Premier.

Yes, Mr. Chairman, with regard to the location of the Fort Providence health facility, there was a meeting on October 12th to discuss this with the community. The community will be meeting in relationship to setting up their town plan I think in the very near future -- I think in the next week -- and to see where they are going to be zoning. From the result of that, we will make a decision. We don't want to go ahead and do something, and then find ourselves zoned out of business. It's just a non-starter for us. So we'll be paying close attention to what the community decides on in terms of zoning.

In the matter of the group home in Hay River, this will probably change to a renovation program because in assessing the building, it looks like it has a much better lifespan than was originally anticipated. So rather than building a new one, it will probably be a renovation program.

With regard to the issue of the tenants in the group home, we realize that the majority of those tenants and clients are aboriginal people. And we're trying to move to address how we are going to staff that particular centre, taking into consideration that particular concern.

In the matter of the alcohol and drug treatment centre in Hay River, I am working with the department to see how we can resolve some of those issues that they brought up. So we're actively pursuing those concerns, and we'll try to come to some reconciliation on how we can organize the finances so that they can take care of the particular two issues you have: the one with the summer very high intensity heat problem, as well I know that some of the issues surrounding what was supposed to be done in landscaping and some of the other minor work that there is some disagreement over, I will try to get that resolved. I committed myself to do that and I will do that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. This seems like a good time to take a break. On my list, I still have Mr. Pudlat and Mr. Antoine. Before we go on, do you still have something to say, Mr. Gargan?

Yes. I would like to ask the Premier if she intends to table the report that was done by Mr. Cooper.

Madam Premier.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to check into that. I'm not really sure what's in the report or what the status of that is. I will report back to the Member.

Thanks, Madam Premier. We'll take a break. On my list I still have Mr. Pudlat and Mr. Antoine, and when we come back Mr. Whitford will be in the chair.

---SHORT RECESS

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is just a general comment, and it will be a short comment; it is not a question. We respect our elders and I don't think a lot of people respect their elders all the time. In my constituency, people are looking forward to having an elders' facility. We have to work harder to look after our elders. We are here today because our elders took care of us. We have to make sure our elders are well taken care of and they have places to stay where they feel comfortable.

We all know we are in times of fiscal restraint, but, even if we are in times of fiscal restraint, we have to work hard to look after our elders. And, not just our elders, but also our youth. I know there is housing available for elders, but they have to make sure elders' facilities are closer to communities and in the communities. We don't see our elders very much in the community or in public places, but we have to think of them and we should be concerned about where they live.

Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to make general comments about that. I said I would make my comment short, so that is it, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, there is some budget in 1997 and 1999 for a family group home in Rae-Edzo.

Mr. Chairman, the Member is referring to the proposal that was put forward by the Dogrib band in June of 1994, with using a building that's existing and providing renovation. Public Works did an inspection that was completed September 1st. A report was expected on September 9th. What we are trying to do is look at the renovation costs, and we have an estimate. So what we want to do is look for the funding within our existing resources in the 1994-95 capital plan. So we're pursuing the issue as we made a commitment to do so, to cover off the particular problem at this point in time. We thought that we would be able to identify a source for the operation and maintenance costs, but we're falling a little bit short so we have to do a little bit more work on that.

Mr. Chairman, I have had a number of meetings with the chief and other band members on the need. We have discussed what's being done now, so we are making a certain amount of expenditures already in the care of children. What we're really trying to do is to pull all those funds together. I didn't anticipate pulling the capital funds forward on a new facility, but rather to reorganize the dollars that are being expended to provide for the renovation of the building, which is somewhere around $94,000. I think we've almost identified all the dollars that are required, already. The operation and maintenance part of it, we're still working on. So we're still committed to try to get that done now within existing funds.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just general comments on this Department of Health and Social Services. This is the first opportunity we've had to discuss this department after it's amalgamation, so I wish the department luck in the work they have to do to amalgamate these two departments into one department.

In the area of health, in Fort Simpson, over the last three years, I've raised this issue with regard to the hospital that was there. Historically, there has always been a hospital in Fort Simpson. It goes back to the time when they had a hospital there where they took care of the TB patients and so forth. Once this 1988 health transfer happened with the federal government, since that time the hospital services have deteriorated quite a bit to now where we don't have much service.

The staff and the doctors in the hospital are very good, but this department has eroded the services and moved everything to Yellowknife, as in everybody's case. People from Simpson have been asking to maintain the hospital and improve the services there. If you look at it, people from that region, my constituents have to get chartered out of the smaller communities like Trout Lake, Nahanni Butte, Jean Marie, Fort Liard, even Wrigley, to Fort Simpson and then get on a sched flight to Yellowknife. A charter from Trout Lake to Simpson is about $600 for a one-way trip. Then you tag on the cost of the sched flight to Yellowknife and costs of accommodating them here at the Vital Abel Home for a number of days; that's quite a lot of cost just to take care of people to come here, sometimes just to get an X-ray and sometimes to get blood work done. That's a lot of cost to do that.

What I'm saying is if we could look at beefing up the services that the hospital could provide in Simpson, perhaps it may cost some money up front, but in the long run it may save this government some dollars by cutting out all the travel that is going on.

Just recently, Mr. Chairman, there was a birth here in Yellowknife by a woman living in Simpson. She had to come here for six weeks before she had her baby. She had to leave her husband and children at home and this family expressed their concerns to me. They appreciated the service that was provided to them, but while the government is talking about restraint, and it is all over the press, they turn around and spend money. They told me they were spending a lot of money just being here. If you compound that with everyone else that has to go through that, that is an enormous cost.

The argument in Simpson is we've always had a hospital there; why not beef up some of the services there and any equipment that may be required. In the SCOF presentation, we talked about distance health systems technology that allows for remote consultations between a major centre and a smaller centre. In this case, this is happening between Edmonton and Yellowknife. As well, there is going to be transmission of radiology, ultrasound and electrocardiogram data between Inuvik and Yellowknife. If that type of technology is available, why can't it be available to smaller communities, rather than incurring all these costs and moving people around? If that technology is available, why couldn't we have it in the hospital in Fort Simpson?

There may be some expense up front, but in the long-term, it may save some bucks. It might improve the delivery of health services to the people in my constituency. I am focusing on my constituency because I understand it the most, but there might be other centres in the north that may provide those types of services.

We have a problem in Simpson. The department has not been able to determine whether or not they can provide these additional services until studies have been done to determine what kinds of services can be provided in the Fort Simpson area. I've been pushing to maintain the hospital, but there are other ideas out there on how to save money on the government side by cutting more in Simpson. I'm asking if you could look at it seriously and try to determine if providing better services might cut down the costs in the long run.

The whole issue of health boards comes into play here too, Mr. Chairman. We don't have health boards in our area, therefore we don't have people at the community level involved in decisions about health. My colleague from Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan, spoke about this earlier in his general comments; about how we don't have a health board in the Deh Cho area. I think it's necessary to look at that. I think it is important to have some sort of group or committee in the communities that deal with community health.

There was the case in Wrigley this past summer where a nurse left the community because she was threatened by community members. She didn't have anywhere to turn, so she left. Upon working with the Department of Health and Social Services and the Mackenzie Regional Health Board, the band from Wrigley had a meeting and determined that the best way to solve the problem was to have the band become more involved and, at the same time, to form a community health committee in Wrigley, where the committee would work with the nurse and the community to determine the types of services Health provides to them.

In the final outcome, the nurse who left returned after being talked to by the chief. That is a good example of how a community health committee could work in a small community. We need them not only for the services, but the type of equipment we may need in these communities. I think it's important to go in that direction.

The other point I would like to make, and it may be an O and M issue, is there is a problem in Simpson where we have one doctor who is contracted with the Mackenzie Regional Health Board. There are two; they alternate, but one left and went to Rankin Inlet. We only have one left there. Just last week, I was talking to the mayor of Simpson who had to go for an appointment. He told me he wanted to see the doctor immediately but the doctor was so booked, they told him to come the next week. There is a requirement for better service there, so there is not just one doctor, but perhaps two.

This is one of the complaints I am starting to receive from my constituency. The doctor and nurses are very busy and if you go there for some medical treatment, even if it is sort of an emergency, you are asked to come back at a later date because there is too much work for them. These are the types of concerns I would like to express about health in my area.

In the area of social services, I have a number of concerns. One of them deals with the community of Fort Liard. I have been asking for an elders' facility in the community. Quite a few elders live there. Some of them have families and one of the ideas coming from there is, because some of the elders have their own homes, that we provide some funding for them to attach additions to the units so family members can live with them.

On the other hand, there are some elders who don't have families who require a home. The band, over 20 years ago, built a log structure of four units. But, it doesn't have running water or constant heat; it has wood heat. As a result of being so old, it has deteriorated and nobody is living there any more. The band did try to take it upon themselves to do something for their people, but now it is up to this government to provide that type of facility. That is one of the points I would like to raise as a general comment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have a quick question. We, too, have been having problems with nursing personnel in Coral Harbour. But, this is more of a general question, not so much about the capital area, but more in O and M. But it does have to do with long-term goals, and is mentioned in the Minister's opening remarks. I guess my question is, whether Social Services will able to find out the condition of clients from the health centres now, with this consolidation, or vice versa. Will the nursing station be able to find out about living standards in relation to the health conditions of a patient or their family, with this consolidation, so that these two departments can work together? Will the two sections in the same community be able to work together?

Sometimes what happens is an interrelated problem. In one community, a patient will go to the nursing station and is sick and the health centres won't find out what the living condition of that family is. They are required to work together in this area.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe that one of the main reasons it was very important to amalgamate or to consolidate Health and Social Services was to, once and for all, get a very much closer working relationship between the health component of programs and the social service component of the programs.

The further realigning of some of the resources going to Education, Culture and Employment will allow the social services worker, that program, to spend more time on the area of their expertise, in terms of counselling and just being more able to do a lot of the work they've been trained for, rather than be bogged down by a lot of paperwork which is the case right now, in terms of being fully responsible for issuing social service cheques and social service assessments. I think that this would accommodate an awful lot in the area of putting the two resources together very closely, and it will also help to overcome some of the feeling of isolation that the health centre staff has sometimes because, by and large, the social service counsellors and the CHRs that we have are much closer to the community, or from time to time are the people themselves or the people who are indigenous to the particular community.

So I think many of the issues that create problems because of people working in two separate areas without talking to each other a lot will be overcome. I know the social services workers are certainly looking forward to the time when they can do the job they're trained for and work with the health centre at the same time, rather than being tied down with paperwork.

So, Mr. Chairman, the Member is exactly right. That was the intent of trying to put the two program areas together.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just two more quick questions. In small communities, there are usually two half PYs; one for a CHR and another half PY for a social worker. I think most of my communities are operating under that condition.

Those two PYs can be handled, then, by one person. One PY to do CHR and social work.

Mr. Chairman, I'm really not aware of a CHR half-time and a SS half-time being combined to make one person year. Unless, what the Member is saying is that the social worker is only a half-time term position and the CHR is a half-time position. My understanding from the beginning of the CHR program, was that those positions would be full time.

But one of the things is that I think when we're doing this amalgamation or consolidation and with the Education department taking over certain responsibilities, what could happen then, we could sit down with the community and assess the person years they have in their community, whether it's an employment officer, a GLO, a CHR or a social worker, and will try to come to some consideration with the community as to what kind of positions in that community are most important. So putting all those different resources together could possibly create a better support within those programs than we've had before. I know there are little bits and pieces here and there that we tried to accommodate in a piecemeal fashion because issues come up; but now I think we can start looking at a community in terms of the total holistic need and saying where do you feel that these positions are best placed. Some of the positions may be redundant. Then giving the person years clearer terms of reference on their job functions and training people for the right reason to do a certain job, probably would allow in most cases to put together a fairly good package along with the community. We would want to do it along with the community.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My last question. I'm not trying to get away with getting into O and M. The last question I have, Mr. Chairman, is will there be a directive issued from the department requiring both health and social services workers in the community to work together on this issue -- that you are expecting better cooperation -- because this is a government initiative that you're expecting those workers to cooperate with the government directive and the communities' desire to have a more holistic approach to the issue to be abided by. Will you be issuing a directive on that?

Mr. Chairman, I would expect that there would be guidelines. But given that, once we've taken care of the community and what approach we're going to take, I would say that there would only be one boss and that would compel people to work together.

Thank you. I'll be very short, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, one area that seems to attract very little attention when we talk about health issues may be because the number doesn't warrant the need to have this facility. I don't really know the term -- facility or treatment centre. But I know that in just about every community that we travelled to, we'll see some little kids and perhaps adults who require treatment from time to time. It could be on an ongoing basis, or just regular treatment.

But this is a specialized area, Mr. Chairman. I don't know if we are able to build facilities and treatment centres in each region. But I know that there is one little boy in my area who has to travel to a treatment centre once or twice a year, Mr. Chairman. I know this type of travelling for that condition could be very tedious, very tiring, and in the end, the patient could be very weak. It takes longer, much longer for a patient to recuperate; or, in this case, rehabilitate.

Mr. Chairman, my question to the honourable Minister is do we have any such treatment centres in this particular jurisdiction? If there are any, where are they located? Thank you.

I'm not quite sure, Mr. Chairman, what the Member is specifically talking about, so if he could just explain a little bit more because I think he's talking about two different things. If he could just explain a little bit more, please.

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I'm talking about when a patient is really handicapped, perhaps due to being a victim of FAS. It could be a person who cannot breathe on his or her own. It could be a person who can hardly move by himself or herself who may need treatment from time to time, to teach that person how to breathe, for example, at some kind of rehabilitation centre in a jurisdiction.

I know there is one in Hay River, but I know of a lady who lives in Taloyoak who has to travel to Hay River in order for her son to receive such treatment. That's what I'm talking about. Do we have any other treatment centres for people who are unable to breathe or are having a difficult time moving around by themselves, who may need treatment from time to time? That's what I'm asking. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, my understanding of the question is that the individuals being referred to are basically people who are caring for themselves anyway, but need some extra help. That's my understanding. To some degree, the health centres do take care of some of the physiotherapy needs. It would really depend on the extent of the treatment that is required. That is generally referred to the Iqaluit, Inuvik, Hay River, Yellowknife or Churchill hospitals.

I know we were trying to get some special programs where health care centre nurses would have extra skills and would try to deal with needs, as much as possible, at the community level. But, for centres to take those types of people...Other than Chesterfield Inlet, I'm not aware there are other centres where people can stay. I know the Member is quite right when he says there are travelling physiotherapists who do visit, but, by and large, when the required care is at a certain level, people are sent out. I think that is what the process is, presently.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My concern is basically for the patient, when a patient has to travel a long distance to another centre where specialized treatment is given. Especially in the winter, when the person is very tired, and very weak, and it may take longer for that person to get better, to recuperate. That was my concern. It was conveyed to me some time ago. I just want the Minister to be aware of it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

(Translation) Mr. Chairman, I have some comments to make about the Department of Health and Social Services and their programs. First of all, I want to thank the department for the workshop on healing from family violence and abuse that was held in Resolute Bay this past summer. The group consisted not just of young people, but elders as well. They helped a great deal and I want to express my thanks to these people for their help. Many people were involved in putting together and facilitating the workshop in Resolute Bay.

This was the very first of its kind in the Baffin region. The people who came up with the idea suggested that this not be the first and last one that is held in the Baffin. I was thankful that many people came forth to help out. They really did help a lot. A lot of people came away feeling much better about themselves and they were able to go home happier.

Many people came in from different communities to hold a healing workshop and it was found that it helped a great deal, for older people and others. We want to see this continued. We expect to see future workshops. There are many people who have to go through the healing process and this is just a beginning. I really wanted to express my gratitude.

On to another subject: the social workers in Resolute Bay sometimes have problems with their staff because of high turnover; for example, with receptionists. Sometimes, this causes problems. As well, the alcohol committee has been requesting their own building to work out of; their own office to operate, in case people have personal problems. At least they would be able to service these people within the confines of their own offices, rather than relying on the hamlet office to give them space.

Perhaps people are embarrassed to seek professional help for their social problems. This can be a barrier to people who need their help because there are many different employees in that building. For example, if a person has an alcohol problem or a drug problem, even if they were willing to seek professional help, it is difficult to expose yourself to all kinds of different employees.

There is a building that is available that belongs to the government. It has not been in use for many years and they have requested the building for their own to hold meetings with people. This is common sense, but we have never received a response from the government. They are trying to work out a solution, but as of this date, nothing has been done. The alcohol committee that deals with alcohol and drug problems, requests some help. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Line By Line

Health And Hospital Boards

Mr. Chairman, I don't have the information right here, but in the area of what the Member is talking about is the dialysis support system and we're trying to look at a couple of other areas. But I have to prove to the Minister of Finance that my figures are correct. So if the Member doesn't mind, I can provide some of the areas that we are exploring where we feel would make some sense to provide the services in the Northwest Territories rather than Edmonton.

Mr. Chairman, if I can show the figures to the Minister of Finance, because we would have to find the savings that would occur as we would not have to be sending people to Edmonton for long periods of time, particularly for dialysis treatment...I would like to see that move ahead quite quickly, and it would be taken care of in a supp providing that I can make the arguments effective, Mr. Chairman.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the Minister, in undertaking and accessing renovations or expansions to health centres, does the department do that internally. I know in the Fort Smith region there's no health board, but I know that in some of the regions there are health boards. So I would like to clarify what the relationship is here. Do health boards put forward proposals for capital projects for renovations of health centres, or does the department do it on its own? Thank you.

The capital plan for renovations or health care needs is done in collaboration with the health boards. The health boards that do exist, generally indicate the priorities they would have in their region. And we would work very closely with those health boards to see how we can manage to get the needed dollars towards the areas where they feel the programs have to be enhanced. But as the Member would realize, they often have a much larger budget that they present. So we do work in collaboration with the health boards.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The health boards put forward their capital budgets to the department, but ultimately it's the department that decides what capital projects to recommend for approval, or to bring forward to the Assembly for approval. Is that correct?

Mr. Chairman, in the deliberation of what is required in the various regions, it is based on a community health needs analysis that is sometimes more advanced in some areas than others. But it is done in collaboration, what we bring forward in the end.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess I'm trying to clarify in my mind then because in areas where there isn't a health board in place to make any kind of recommendations, what consultation process would the department go through in preparing their capital plans. Is it done all internally within the department? Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, even though there isn't a health board in some areas, there are health needs studies that are done by an administration. For example, in the Mackenzie there is an administration of the Mackenzie region which, in fact, could be a board. But there is still an area of responsibility that looks after the needs of those communities on a day-to-day basis; as the work progresses, the needs fall out and it's done with the communities' involvement. There are a lot of times when we visit communities, and the MLAs put

forward the needs using the health needs study, and we work with the administrative arm in that region in identifying priorities on the capital plan.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Agreed.

---Agreed