Thank you. General comments. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi. In terms of hiring people, I assume the corporation is just like any other business where, if they don't have staff, they use contractors, especially for small maintenance jobs. I assume it is one of their policies to use, say a local sandblasting outfit, as compared to flying somebody in from the south, where people are available. I know companies are not available in every region, but somewhere in the north there is usually a company that can provide a service. That is what I was getting at.

In terms of staffing and hiring, the corporation used to have a lot of trainees in different trades. Do they still do a lot of the apprenticeship training?

Thank you. Mr. Robertson.

Mr. Chairman, the answer to the question with respect to apprenticeship programs is yes. We are in the process right now of hiring a number of people in each of the regions and we are hoping to see through the four or five-year apprenticeship program for mechanics, linemen and electrical operators. We are working closely with Arctic College and the Department of Education, Government of the Northwest Territories, with respect to bringing people through the system in the apprenticeship program.

As far as the other question on the use of outside firms to do work. As much as possible, we try to use companies within the Northwest Territories. There is, however, a price factor involved. The policy we have allows a differential for territorial companies, but, a differential is not an example of 50 per cent more. But, as much as possible, we are trying to use local corporations.

Thank you. General comments. I have Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I said, I was going to raise a question. I don't know how this question relates to what we are talking about, but in the community I live in we have a brand new power plant and there is also a back-up system. The Northwest Territories Power Corporation Minister has seen our new power plant.

Mr. Chairman, perhaps a couple of weeks ago, there was a problem with power outages. One of the outages went overnight. It was a concern as the power plant is quite new. I don't know exactly what happened. There have been problems with outages already. My question is on that topic. I am very happy and proud that we have an employee who is a young Inuit, who is working and training on the job as an apprentice. He has worked with other employees from the region also, as the employee before had resigned. I don't know as to what extent the present employee is trained. He is a locally hired employee, however, I think they should have more supervision when they are learning on the job. This is not to say that I don't trust the employee, but we have to be aware that they have adequate supervision when they are learning on the job. I don't know if the problems we have had with outages are due to the fact that he has been alone. We have to be proud and praise our young Inuit, who are willing to take on these jobs. There are always problems when new things come about.

It is probably expensive to maintain these power plants, especially with freight and maintenance costs. Has it been considered to have adequate supervision for our young people who we are quite proud of and who are in an apprenticeship?

As I told you, we have a brand new power plant and there is a back-up system. I don't know why the back-up system didn't come into place when the main power went out. So have there been considerations as to how much supervision these new employees are given when they are new on the job? Has it been considered, is it in place or are there plans to have this in place in the future? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Mr. Robertson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member's remarks are quite accurate and, unfortunately, I am not in the position to say because I do not know why the power was out for such a long period in Lake Harbour two weeks ago. This is currently being looked into and we will advise the honourable Member as soon as we are aware of the reasons.

He is correct in saying the operator who looks after our plant in Lake Harbour is new to the corporation. There has been a series of training modules put together for the operator and we do not think the outage was caused in any way by the operator's lack of training. At the same time, we acknowledge the amount of training the operator has will have to be continued and upgraded over the next few years. Again, as soon as we find out and determine the reason for the outage, we will advise the Member.

Thank you. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you for the response. I will repeat part of my question. As I said, I was very proud of aboriginal people being put on the job. Can they be given adequate supervision, especially when they are new to the job? Or, is it impossible because of a shortage of funds? Are there any plans to have supervision for these new employees? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Mr. Robertson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The supervision the plant operators get during the first few years of their employment, takes place initially quite intensively and as the employee shows some ability to operate the plant on their own, the supervision is relaxed. It is quite evident from the experience in Lake Harbour that we are going to have to revisit the amount of supervision given to that particular plant and plant operator, as well as others.

Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to make some general comments and pose a few questions. The Minister's opening remarks have caused me to reflect back on the time since the Government of the Northwest Territories purchased NCPC. I think we have seen quite a lot of change and progress. We have seen headquarters move north. We have seen new blood brought into management, the latest being a new CEO.

I want to say that although members have been critical and I myself have been critical of the Power Corporation from time to time, especially during the spate of power outages in Iqaluit last year, I do want to say that, by and large, quite a good job has been done by the corporation, recognizing that it has had two sometimes conflicting mandates: one is to operate in a business-like fashion and generate a profit and the other is to be accountable to the government owners and shareholders, and Members of this Assembly to make progress in areas like affirmative action, apprenticeship and provide services to small communities that really don't generate much revenue.

So it has probably been quite a tough challenge that we have put on the Minister and the board running the Power Corporation. I do want to take a moment to say one constant throughout this has been Mr. Jim Robertson as the CEO and chairman of the board. I do want to thank him for the commitment that he has put into the corporation. I know that he has given it a lot of his personal attention and no one doubts who has been in charge and everyone who works for the corporation knows who has been chairing the board. I think he has made I think he has made a significant effort to take an interest in each and every community and plant and has done a lot, actually, to improve the morale of the employees.

I think, as well, although there are undoubtedly problems here and there, that, generally, morale has improved since the dark days when the federal government was trying to get rid of the corporation but was still running it. I think those were very dark days and discouraging times when there was no money being put into it and, it seemed, no attention being paid to the Power Corporation. Casting my mind back to those days, I think a lot has changed. I think, of course, that there is a lot of room for improvement and affirmative action and apprenticeship is a continual challenge, for which we will always expect progress.

I would just like to say, Mr. Chairman, that on the issue of privatization, all we were required to do when the Power Corporation was sold to our government was examine the issue of privatization. Some people have not been clear on the directions that were provided by the federal government, but the condition was that we take a serious look at it. I think that's been done. I think the Minister has taken this obligation quite seriously. I also believe that the correct conclusion has been reached about the fact that this initiative is not doable in the current political climate.

As I understand it, one of the objectives of privatization was to create a strong company, independent of political influences which had organizational and operational stability. Now that privatization is off, at least for a short term, I would still expect that the organizational and operational stability which is desirable could be assured by continuing the government's attitude of not meddling with the day-to-day administrative operation of the corporation. I think it is important that the corporation be free to operate without undue political interference in its day-to-day affairs.

I also believe, although I am obviously concerned about the possible impact in my constituency, as would other Members, once the proposal to implement a new system of cost-based rates has been considered by the Public Utilities Board -- and, hopefully, fairly considered by them -- it will also provide more stability in that it would replace the present patchwork of very disparate, illogical rate structures. I think the corporation has done the right thing in promoting the rationalization of rates, even though it will mean changes and could mean increases in some communities, hopefully not my own.

I guess what I am most interested in is the reference in the Minister's opening remarks to the concern that the corporation may be vulnerable to competing southern utilities which want to cream off the profits in the Northwest Territories; and I'm using my own term. But, it seems to me that it is suggested in the Minister's opening remarks that companies may want to come in and exploit the profitable communities, leaving the government-owned utility with the burden of operating a corporation in the less profitable communities without the economies of scale that would result from an integrated system.

I note that the Minister suggests that one way of avoiding this problem would be to legislate protection, in effect, for the Power Corporation. I would urge the Minister to pursue this option and report back to the House on her conclusions about that option. I know that, at the time the corporation was sold, the Cabinet of the day -- which I was a Member of -- was very clear about rejecting partnership with a southern utility. I think the thinking at the time was, although it was offered to us very clearly, that we should have the ability to use the corporation as an instrument of public policy and, perhaps, as an instrument of economic development. That may be harder in the current climate, but I still believe, in principle, that is the way to go.

Mr. Chairman, the question I would like to ask the Minister is about that issue. She notes that there is a possibility of competition moving into the profitable communities. I would like to ask her, is there anything today in our legislation, other than the usual environmental processes that the Power Corporation, itself, would have to go through, to prevent a southern utility from moving into the Northwest Territories and building a dam on one of the prime hydro sources in the Northwest Territories?

Of course, I'm not suggesting that aboriginal rights might not have an influence, and there might not be objections on that ground, but does a southern company have the same opportunity to develop hydro as the Northwest Territories Power Corporation has right now? That's my question.

Thank you. I would like to remind Members and the Minister that, if you want to discuss some matters, there is a Member's lounge back there. Be quiet please. Thank you. Madam Premier.

---Applause

On the question of another developer coming in, subject to the normal approval, as the Member has indicated, for environmental and other processes, there is nothing that would stop another developer from coming in and putting in, say, a large hydro development.

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Patterson.

Just a final comment. In that event, Mr. Chairman, I guess I would also like to recommend that, in looking at the possibility of legislating to give the Power Corporation the exclusive rate to generate and distribute electrical power in the larger communities, the Minister responsible for the corporation may also want to look at legislation to protect the exploitation of our hydro resources by competitors.

I think, as we go to more difficult financial circumstances -- as referred to in the opening comments -- we are going to want to protect the economies of scale and the natural resources we have in the Northwest Territories, and protect them in favour of our publicly-owned utility. So, I would suggest that, even though privatization was off -- and I understand it was partly motivated by the desire to create a corporation that would have sufficient strength and muscle to fend off competitors -- and it is off the agenda, that some of these legislative safeguards should still, nonetheless, be pursued. Because, otherwise, we may be subject to competition that could further erode the financial viability of our corporation. That's just a comment, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Patterson. On my list I have Mr. Ng. General comments.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First, I would like to apologize for being a little bit late getting back. I was at the airport. I missed the Minister's opening comments, but I had a chance to read the notes that came forward. I just wanted to clarify one thing. It is in relation to the major concern I had about privatization. There have been comments made on this.

Secondly, on page 6, she has indicated that the government has come to the conclusion that it is not timely to proceed with the privatization initiative. I just want to clarify something. Does that mean the Minister has shelved this for the duration of this government's term? Thank you.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Mr. Chairman, the Member is right. It was a requirement on the turnover from the federal Crown to the GNWT, that we would explore the options for privatization. In doing that, the two reports, the Abbott reports, were commissioned to take a look at the option of privatization and what the best way of doing it is.

The privatization option that came forward was to keep the Power Corporation in one part, not to split it up, which would make the best sense to balance and stabilize the customer base. That is what we looked at.

Now as we proceed and go forward -- and the Member is quite right, he was not here when I tried to answer that question before -- there isn't a consensus out there. There is a lot of interest, particularly from aboriginal groups, but there isn't a consensus on how we go about it. As well, in this Legislature, there is no consensus on that. As all the Members know, we have a very heavy legislative timetable for other areas we have to look at. I have circulated the work that was done on the legislation according to the Abbott report on the one unit.

So these are the areas that were explored and were put forward. Every now and then you have to measure how much work can be put on the legislative timetable. As all Members know, in order to do that, there has to be some type of consensus if we are going to talk about one unit. At this point, I believe it is just not there. There are many people who are interested. Some communities are talking about taking over their own power corporation. Other regional groups are saying take over the regional distribution area and are suggesting that the territorial government turns it over for one dollar and then they operate it.

Part of this whole issue is that at the time the studies were done, this corporation's estimated value was $80 million. I don't know, given the circumstances, whether the $80 million is still the figure. There is much work to be done in terms of understanding this whole thing. There is a lot of concern about the subsidy and that if it is privatized, the territorial government could not put their hands into the coffers of the Power Corporation and demand that a dividend be paid whether there is a profit or not. So these things are not really understood.

For example, we have a number of utilities, in the marginal communities where the territorial government has paid 75 per cent of the cost with Northland Utilities, that don't pay a subsidy. These are issues that aren't clear enough to the interested groups. I don't believe we have the time, given that the mandate of this Legislature is a year from today, to satisfy the concerns and issues out there. That is what I meant by this statement.

Thank you. General comments. Madam Premier.

Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to note something, to clear up any misconceptions. At the beginning, there were some comments made and I want to clear them up for the record. On the privatization of the Power Corporation, to have the government guarantee future loans, in terms of the proposals we had on the table, there was no request for a guarantee for the future loans on the privatization.

In terms of the comments on its stability, it is very difficult for the Power Corporation to say what is a good year, what is a bad year and how it will break out. These are the questions out there. When we took over the Power Corporation from the federal Crown, what I remember most is trying to get the records from the Edmonton office. Part of the reason those records weren't available, we were told, is because they would move on occasion and the Power Corporation was split and part of it went to the Yukon. So we really couldn't get a lot of those records, so when we took it over, we had to do the best we could with the information we had to make sure we had enough in place and got the Power Corporation for such a price, that we could make up for some of the environmental concerns and some of the records that weren't there.

I would like to say, on record, that I give a great deal of respect and confidence to the board of directors of the Power Corporation, to their very dedicated time they had to spend to make sure even though there were unknowns out there, they were able to tie it together and still be a good corporate citizen to the many communities, whether they are small or large, and respond to needs.

I really have to say, even in the privatization, I felt very sincerely that we had to put something on the table to start discussions, consider options and people can have input. We do have a lot of aboriginal businesses out there who need some good business deals in the Northwest Territories. There aren't very many and I have said that time and time again. It needs to move forward in such a way that it is northern owned. The NWT residents own the corporation. If the time is not right now, it can be explored further in the next Legislature. I believe that enough work has been done and the data has been prepared, so the next Assembly can weigh that information. I hope that we have done an adequate job, so in the next round people will have the information. They can ask what is a good deal and what are some of the perils and outstanding issues. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.