Thank you. Good afternoon. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Amittuq, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I rise today to inform the House and the public about the meeting that recently took place in Iqaluit. During the week of January 9 to 14, I had the honour of chairing the Baffin leadership summit which met to discuss issues of regional concern. Attending were MLAs from the Baffin region, mayors from the 13 communities, as well as representatives from the Baffin Regional Inuit Association, Baffin Divisional Board of Education, Kakivak Association, Quikiqtaluk Corporation, Nunavut Arctic College, Baffin Regional Health Board, Baffin Alcohol and Drug Treatment Centre, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated and the Government of the Northwest Territories.

During the intense four-day session, we discussed a wide variety of issues including education, especially getting leaders and the parents more involved in encouraging students to complete their schooling, retaining the name Arctic College for Nunavut campus, the need for family housing units for students, and support for Baffin and Nunavut training strategy and plan.

The second area of concern was economic development, which included a commitment to begin work on a Baffin economic strategy, including developing terms of reference for a regional economic planner position, support for parks and tourism, and ensuring that as much benefit as possible is retained by local people from sport hunting and other ventures.

The third topic was health. The main topic of discussion was support for design and construction of a the new Baffin Regional Hospital. Renewable Resources was a fourth issue. Topics included support for increases in funding for the Baffin Regional Hunters' and Trappers' Committee and requests that Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated ensure that the hunters income support program be put in place as soon as possible.

Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue with my statement. Thank you.

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Madam Speaker and colleagues. In the area of housing, there was support for development of a strategy to address the urgent need for staff housing for some communities in the Baffin region. The sixth topic was alcohol and drug workers. Support was given for the effort to come up with more funds to address the lack of housing for staff and to supplement salaries and benefits to alcohol and drug workers. Number seven, Nunavut law school, the summit agreed to support the current initiatives to establish the Nunavut law school. The eighth area of concern was the code of conduct. We also committed to develop and adopt a code of conduct for Baffin leaders.

Madam Speaker, in addition, the Baffin Leadership Working Group was established to look into the possibility of creating an organization of Baffin leaders whose main function would be to enable us to cooperate and work together, a new and improved regional leaders forum, so to speak. Finally, Madam Speaker, we decided that the next Baffin leaders summit will be in Cape Dorset this spring. As you know, Cape Dorset is on the leading edge of the community transfer initiative program, and it will give us a chance, for the first time, to look at their progress.

At the appropriate time, Madam Speaker, I will be tabling copies of the 16 resolutions and related correspondence which provide further details of our discussion. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Allooloo. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I recently had a constituent of mine, Mr. Albert Norwegian, attempt to explain to me all the rules and permits necessary to cut firewood for a living in the Northwest Territories. Madam Speaker, in addition to having to comply with a provision of the Motor Vehicles Act, which restricts Mr. Norwegian to only use half the capability of his truck, Mr. Norwegian has to obtain the following permits: the land use permit, timber cutting permit, timber transport permit and a timber road ticket permit. The fees involved are astronomical. Wood cutters pay $950 up front to cut 150 cords of wood; $20 for the application fees; $54 for the stumpage fees; and, $270 for reforestation fees.

Madam Speaker, as most Members are aware, wood cutting contributes to the economy as well as to the environment. Firewood is culled from the forest. There is no clear cutting. The only wood that is used is dead wood. In my opinion, Madam Speaker, the wood cutting by its very nature, encourages the environment by allowing new growth to occur. I can see charging logging company stumpage and reforestation fees, but I do not believe that firewood cutting has the impact upon the environment that warrants the charging of these fees if any wood cutting contributes to the government's reforestation program.

Madam Speaker, the government pays people to cut firebreaks and thin trees in some areas. Why then is the government trying to discourage a small environmentally friendly business that will ultimately contribute to the success of their forestry initiative? Madam Speaker, the government has to take a serious look at its policy for firewood cutting. There has to be a better financial incentive for people to be involved in this industry. The government has over-regulated this industry. I will be pursuing this matter in the weeks to come. Mahsi cho, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yesterday, Madam Speaker, was the beginning of white cane week. This week is set aside to make the public aware of the challenges of blind people. Lydia Bardak, the executive director of the local branch of the Canadian National Institute for the Blind, was here yesterday, and I believe she expected us to mark the beginning of this week. She did so herself yesterday, Madam Speaker, by co-hosting the morning radio show on CBC.

Throughout the country yesterday many people engaged in communications, sports, politics and entertainment to spend some time blindfolded. It gave them a brief experience of what it's like to live without sight.

Those of us who served on the last Assembly had the privilege of working with Charlie Crow, the MLA from Sanikiluaq, who had been blind since childhood and who gave deep insight into the enormous challenges that face blind people.

The CNIB celebrated it's 75th anniversary last year, and many of us took advantage of visiting the travelling exhibition. Canada has played a very important role in developing technology to assist blind people. I know Members will join me in offering best wishes to the CNIB for its successful campaign during this white cane week.

Members have in front of them a small package which contains a little document that tells you what you do when you meet a blind person, an example of Braille and a Braille alphabet bookmark. And, of course, everybody will have a white cane to remember that this is the beginning of white cane week. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The GNWT recently announced the awarding of its banking services to CIBC. In the January 18 press release, the Minister of Finance said the decision to remain with the bank was largely based on a combination of the service they will be providing to the government, combined with its branch network in the NWT, plans it has for community banking initiatives and their commitment for hiring more aboriginal staff.

These banking initiatives also confirm an exclusive arrangement CIBC has with the Northwest Company, for the installation of debit card terminals in various Northern Stores. Debit card service will allow card holders to pay directly for merchandise purchases, as well as receive cash from their accounts if they so desire.

Madam Speaker, I wish to point out that this new debit card service that will become available to some communities and to some consumers who have or will be able to obtain debit cards is, in fact, not of great benefit to residents of our communities. The individuals currently owning chequing accounts with banks were able to write cheques for their purchases and, in most cases, receive extra cash if required, so the availability of debit card terminals may add some convenience to the existing system. However, most of our residents will not be able to obtain debit cards or may not necessarily want them.

At this time, I do wish to commend CIBC for their efforts to provide a new service to our communities, in addition to the commercial and residential lending that the bank does in some of our communities.

I, personally, bank with CIBC and in the past have had various corporate accounts with them. From my experience, they have been the most responsive of all banks in addressing banking needs outside of Yellowknife. I look forward to any new initiatives the bank plans on implementing in improving accessibility to banking services in the communities.

Madam Speaker, my main concern with the CIBC banking proposal which has been accepted by the GNWT is the exclusive arrangement the bank has made with the Northwest Company for the installation of debit terminals in their various stores.

Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue with his Member's statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Continue, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. This exclusive arrangement will be detrimental to all other retailers and competitors of Northern Stores. In the majority of our communities, the main competitor is the locally owned and controlled cooperative. These cooperative stores and other

private operators will lose a significant amount of their business as a result of not having the opportunity to establish debit card terminals in their stores.

Madam Speaker, I hope the GNWT recognizes this important concern and attempts to deal with it in a fair manner. Mahsi.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. Mr. Whitford.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue with his Member's statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North.

The decision of the federal government to lower tobacco taxes in order to curb spending in Quebec, to a lesser extent in other provinces, has serious ramifications for the Northwest Territories. These include loss of revenue, a possible influx of cheaper cigarettes from the south and, most importantly, a serious threat to the health of northerners, especially young people.

Hear, hear.

The federal solution was to deal with rampant smuggling in Quebec, but it is totally inappropriate for the Northwest Territories. The former Government of the Northwest Territories raised taxes on cigarettes significantly and was strongly criticized by smokers for doing so. However, our fundamental justification, over and above increased revenue, was to provide a deterrent to smoking, especially among young people.

I am a product, myself, of a generation who had cheap cigarettes and no anti-smoking education. I have had mixed success in beating the dreaded habit, and I don't want my children to repeat my experience. I would support the government in raising NWT tax to keep the price of cigarettes constant in the north. I am sure there will be pressure by the federal government to follow their lead.

In the final analysis, all provinces and territories may be forced to react to cross-provincial and territorial smuggling. But for now, I feel strongly that we should stand by the principles that cigarettes are more of a threat to our young people than are smugglers. Thank you very much.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, last week I attended a community consultation meeting on social housing issues conducted by the NWT Housing Corporation at the insistence of the Minister of Housing. The Baffin district manager gave a very thorough, but low-key briefing on a whole range of current housing issues in my constituency.

Madam Speaker, one issue leapt out at the meeting, like a dark cloud blotting out the sun. It turns out that the Housing Corporation is proposing a major rent review, which I understand translates into lifting the proposed rent ceilings for social housing tenants in Nunavut. We are told this is driven by CMHC cuts to O and M funding to our government's social housing program this coming fiscal year and we are told it is driven by fairness and equity. Madam Speaker, many of my constituents were lured, or even intimidated, into moving from camps onto the land by federal officials, on the promise of free housing, health and education benefits. They are still alive. They still remember the promises made to induce them to leave their camps and the veiled threats they were given.

I will never forget how one elderly constituent, now deceased, explained to me the pain he suffered on being told by an RCMP officer that he must shoot his own dog team before moving into town.

Madam Speaker, the federal government is taking away the support for public housing, we learned, but it is the Government of the Northwest Territories, and its Housing Corporation, who are proposing to raise the rent. If our government has accepted this change demanded by the federal government, who is going to confront the federal government about breaking their promise to my Inuit constituents? Has our government accepted the deletion of O and M funding without a whimper and decided rent increases must go ahead? Or, is this community consultation going to be a real consultation process where my constituents, and this House, will have a chance to say no to rent increases and no to federal cutbacks?

Madam Speaker, as I understand it...

(Microphone turned off)

---Laughter

Thank you. Mr. Patterson.

May I request unanimous consent to carry on with my statement?

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue with his Member's statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. As I understand it, Madam Speaker, the Housing Corporation also proposed to lift the ceilings now in place for social housing in Iqaluit, on the basis of fairness and equity. However, Madam Speaker, I want to say this about fairness and equity. Social housing tenants, in my constituency, do not have wood to build houses or to fuel their stoves. Social housing tenants, in my constituency, do not have all-weather or even winter roads to reduce the highest cost of living in the country. The rent ceilings were put in place many years ago, to recognize the high cost of living of communities off the road where there are no local fuel supplies. Since the cost of living and supply of local wood has not changed, how can it be fair or equitable to now remove the ceilings on rent?

Madam Speaker, I cannot emphasize enough the sensitivity of this matter in my constituency. I fear that if these arbitrary increases are imposed -- and I understand the deadline may be as soon as July of this coming year, when federal funding is cut off -- many of my constituents, including large families, will have no choice but to move into deplorable shacks and qammaqs before they will pay these sharp increases in rent. A number of them are already living on the beach in my constituency, as Members of this House know.

My constituents will expect the Government of the Northwest Territories and the Minister of the Housing Corporation to take more forceful action with the federal government in the face of this treacherous action, not to repeat the treachery with my constituents, who have no alternative. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, as a courtesy, through you, I would like to inform the House that I will be absent from February 16 to 19, attending the Kitikmeot Inuit Association conference in Cambridge Bay. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Item 3, Members' statements. Before going to returns to oral questions, the Speaker would like to recognize a former Member of the Assembly, Mr. Abe Okpik.

---Applause

I would also like to recognize Bertha Allen, president of the Native Women's Association.

---Applause

And councillor Steve Brooks from Hay River.

---Applause

Welcome to the Assembly. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister for Housing. Madam Speaker, for a number of months, the Minister responsible for Housing has been updating this House with regard to his many trips to Ottawa and elsewhere to negotiate with the federal government to make up the short fall in funding for social housing. I would like to ask the Minister if he could advise the House of the current status of those negotiations. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr.

Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The current status of the negotiations to reinstate funding for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation is we're putting a package together to present to Mr. Paul Martin on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories, not only on the housing issues but the health issue and other issues affecting the government. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, the honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, we know that the federal Minister of Finance is going to be presenting his budget very shortly in the House of Commons. Is that when we might expect to have an answer on this issue of the restoration of social housing cuts, during the federal budget? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I haven't had an opportunity to look at the federal government's budget, I don't think anybody has. I don't expect to have our housing problems solved by the federal budget. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

My final supplementary, Madam Speaker. Then, when does the Minister expect to be able to give this House a final answer on this issue? Thank you.

Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We have made presentations to the federal government on behalf of the people of the Northwest Territories. We presented the unique case of the people of the Northwest Territories and made it very clear to the federal government that they have a legal responsibility to the aboriginal people of the NWT to supply housing. We've always come from that direction and we will continue to do that.

We've met with them several times to try to get funding for social housing. There is funding for aboriginal housing on reserves in southern Canada. That funding, I understand, will continue. In 1994, there is zero funding for new construction of social housing in the Northwest Territories. Through the Minister of Finance, Mr. Paul Martin, we are attempting to negotiate a package to solve that problem.

Through the CMHC route, the process I was directly involved in, I think we've dried up all avenues to get funding reinstated. There is a slight light at the end of the tunnel. I hope it's not a train, but there is a slight light that with the savings we create within CMHC and the Housing Corporation, we can put that money back into housing. But, I don't expect to get anything through the CMHC process. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Morin. The Speaker would like to recognize Mrs. Esther Braden in the gallery, the president of the NWT Seniors' Society.

---Applause

In addition, I would welcome the elders that are visiting us today, also.

---Applause

Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister responsible for Housing. I would like to ask the Minister, since he has been to Ottawa on at least five occasions and for all that tenacity he has come back empty-handed and since there is going to be no money -- as he has admitted -- through CMHC, does this mean that the federal government refuses to accept its legal responsibility for social housing in the Northwest Territories?

Thank you. The Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Just to set the record straight, we managed to return last year with $10 million above and beyond what we would have been allocated under the CMHC process, in case Mr. Lewis forgot about that. My reading of the issue of the federal government's responsibility to aboriginal people is that the federal government has never, ever lived up to that responsibility since they started building houses in the Northwest Territories and I don't see them accepting that responsibility, to date. They should. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

To the same Minister, despite the many visits that he has made to Ottawa and due to the obvious unwillingness

of the federal government to fulfil its legal obligations, what is the position of this government? What is this government going to do with a federal government that refuses to accept its legal responsibility?

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We have always said that it is the responsibility of the federal government and that they have the legal obligation to supply housing for aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories. We continue to tell them that. We have encouraged aboriginal groups to deal directly with the federal government on the housing crisis in the Northwest Territories. We will do everything possible to assist aboriginal groups, to make sure the federal government does live up to its responsibilities. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. To the Minister responsible for Housing, what efforts has the Minister made to meet with the Minister responsible for Indian Affairs and Northern Development to ensure that DIAND picks up where CMHC has left off, in terms of funding for social housing, particularly to aboriginal and treaty people?

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We have made it very clear to the federal government that Indian Affairs does fund aboriginal housing in southern Canada, to the tune of $130 million a year. I have raised the issue, personally, with the Minister responsible for Indian Affairs of the federal government. My colleague, the Honourable John Pollard, has raised the issue. Our Premier has raised the issue with the same Minister, as well as with the Prime Minister. Stephen Kakfwi, the Minister for Intergovernmental Affairs, has raised the issue when he has met with them. As well, we will be attending a meeting in Edmonton on February 16, with Mr. Irwin and we will raise the issue again. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation. The Minister has repeatedly reassured this House and its committees that he is pursuing the federal government to re-establish the cut funds for social housing. We all acknowledge and commend him on his efforts in that respect. However, there is a possibility that no funds will become available. What does the Minister plan to do to address the crisis in social housing, when no further federal funding is available?

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Besides praying, if there is no funding from the federal government, we have attempted to address a portion of the needs. We would be dreaming in technicolour if any of us think that with the existing dollars we have, we can solve the social housing problem in the Northwest Territories. This problem is far too big. It's too huge, it's a crisis. If you think that this government, with the funds that it has, can solve it on its own, then we are dreaming in technicolour. We have to find a source of outside funds, or find some other ways to be funded because we just don't have the money. Even with the money we had last year, we're not even meeting ten per cent of the need.

If we had continued to get around $40 million to $47 million a year from the federal government, then we could have slowly closed the gap on social housing problems. But as it is now, the gap is getting bigger and it may mean we'll have to make some hard decisions. All 24 of us, not just myself or Cabinet. It's going to mean we'll have to make some hard decisions on how we spend our money. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Ng, supplementary.

I think we recognize that the sale of the GNWT's housing in this current year has gone toward providing some of the social housing for this year, and possibly for next year. Does the government or the Minister have any plans to sell off any other assets of this government to meet the social housing needs?

Thank you Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Right now, the government is doing an inventory of the other assets we own. There are no immediate plans of myself, as Minister, to sell off anything to solve the housing crises. That would have to be a Cabinet decision, and a decision with recommendations made of this House. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is

to the Minister of Housing with regard to the allocation of public housing. With the shortage in almost every community, everyone is concerned that a fair allocation of public and social housing units should be made. Without getting into the actual allocation of units, can the Minister explain the logic and process used to allocate the available units to NWT communities?

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Two years ago, the NWT Housing Corporation, in partnership with the communities, made a comprehensive needs study in all the communities of the Northwest Territories. Through that needs study, it identifies those people in need of units, what type of units are needed, what type of programs are needed to address their need, that's how the allocation is based.

Right now, your allocation for your communities is meeting, I believe, less than ten per cent of the actual needs. So if you need 100 units, you're going to get approximately ten or less. But the allocation is distributed fairly that way.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I can only speak on my constituency, but one of the things I have noticed this year in my constituency is a substantial reduction of public access to social housing. I believe that allocation far exceeds the needs assessment. In other words, I realize in my constituency perhaps I didn't even get the ten per cent required. I would like to ask the Minister what he is doing in order to address the needs assessment and the allocations required by that needs assessment.

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Like I said, the allocation is based on the needs assessment. We are trying to make the best use of the dollars, the best mix of the use of the dollars that we have. When we build public housing stock or rent supp, we can build approximately seven, I think it is, home ownership units compared to the one. We try to use the proper mix. The mix we are using this year is 70 per

cent home ownership and 30 per cent rent supp. Then, we allocated that according to need. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Before Christmas, I wrote a constituency newsletter with regard to dealing with housing, only. In that newsletter, I did identify a lot of the old northern rental units that have to be replaced. I believe there are 12 of them. There are also about 24 young parents, single parents, who need houses and don't have any. I have also identified bachelors who also have no units. The way I see it is that the allocations that have been made to my constituency only address maybe a couple of families, when you know, in fact, they should be looking at the other people. What I'm saying to the Minister is that the allocation doesn't meet the needs assessment that was done in my constituency. I'm saying that if the requirement is for 20 units and I only get four, then how is he addressing the other 16 that are required based on that needs assessment?

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Your constituency, Mr. Gargan, is no different than any other constituency. There are a certain number of people in need who are not going to get help. It's as simple as that. I do not have the money. We can only address those needs that we have the financial resources to address. It's as simple as that. I do not have the money. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Amittuq, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Housing, most of the residents of the Northwest Territories have heard a little bit about the potential rental rate changes for the social housing. The Housing Corporation staff have been in most of the communities in the Northwest Territories, if not all, to discuss this. Could the Minister explain what factors are driving the proposed rent changes, both internal to the NWT and also external? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The policy for the review of the rent scale has not been reviewed since 1983. As you know, it's an outdated policy. Everything that we, as a government, are supposed to be doing is supposed to be done in a fair, equitable manner and that's what we're attempting to do. CMHC has told the territorial government that if you do not increase your rents, because they are lower than other jurisdictions, they will take back operations and maintenance money from us. How much that is, I do not

know. We are doing this in a slow and precise fashion. What is happening in your communities, and which everyone has been made aware of, all housing authorities have been consulted, there are family income forms being completed right now, so every Member will know how it will affect your riding. That is supposed to be done quickly. Then we have to develop a new rental scale, a proposal, and we have to take that to the Advisory Committee on Housing and Cabinet, to get approval. Then it would be phased in. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I hear the Minister saying that in the event of changes, the government is proposing to implement the new rental rates for social housing. How much notice will the current tenants be given, if there are going to be any changes to the rental rates? Thank you.

Thank you. The Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Hopefully, by March of this year, we will have done community consultations and individual tenant impact briefings. In April 1994, the new rent scale will be drafted to go to Cabinet and the advisory committee. Community meetings to present the new rent scale will happen in May of 1994. In May of 1994, rent notices will go to the tenants. In August of 1994, any adjustments will be implemented then. For those people who will have a drop in rent, it will be done immediately. For those people who will have increased rents, it will be phased in. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Allooloo.

Madam Speaker, when the government increased the staff housing units to their employees, they phased them in. Will the phasing in method that the government used for staff housing be similar to social housing, if there are going to be rate adjustments?

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The phasing time will be determined through the consultation process. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation. Is there going to be a factor for the cost of living in different communities included in the rental adjustments? Is that included in the new rental rates?

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. On what basis is the cost of living going to be determined for each of these communities?

Thank you. Minister of Housing.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. That work will be done by the Department of Social Services.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Baffin South.

(English not provided)

I am sorry, Mr. Pudlat. We don't appear to be getting translation. Could I ask you to start again and see if we can receive some translation. Proceed.

(English not provided)

No, we are not receiving translation. I will request a five minute break and see if we can address this issue.

---SHORT RECESS

I will call the House back to order. Order, please. Thank you. Before we proceed, Mr. Pudlat, I would like to recognize Mr. Mike Paulette, the vice-president of the Metis Nation.

---Applause

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat, would you like to attempt your question again, please? Thank you.

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. Can you all hear me now? Thank you. My questions are going to be directed to the Minister of Housing. Coming from Baffin south, many Members have constituents who are unemployed or underemployed, as a result of lack of employment opportunities in the communities or lack of supplies like soapstone. These people are concerned about the impact of the winter. Can the Minister explain why people are left out on the street in the winter because they can't pay high rents? There is a lot of unemployment in our communities. Sometimes it is very difficult for a tenant to pay high rents. It is especially hard for the unemployed people.

Madam Speaker, I would like to stress that with the staff housing strategy, the government is aggressively promoting home ownership. Is this promotion of home ownership access the result of the Minister's wishes to achieve changes to territorial housing rents?

There are people who are unemployed and some people are being evicted from their houses because they can't pay for their rents. If you are going to have such high rates, we would like to see the government reduce the rents that have been increased. We would like to see people living well and not on social assistance.

Today, our lifestyle has changed dramatically. Can the Minister answer my question on what plan the government has regarding the smaller number of access units, to encourage and support those social housing tenants interested in home ownership? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat. May I remind Members to attempt to keep your preambles to your questions as precise as possible. Without taking away the fundamental right of freedom of speech for Members, I would also like to request the Ministers to make every attempt to keep your answers as precise and short as possible. Thank you. The honourable Minister for Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. For those people with lower incomes, the new rental scale review program may even, in some cases, lower their rent. For those people with higher income, it will never exceed 25 to 30 per cent of their gross income, including the cost of living. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, the honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. We have unemployed people who are paying a lot of money for rent. Our constituents have to be aware about what is happening with changes to social housing and rental rates. Would it be possible for the Minister to answer this question briefly and precisely? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Right now, the Housing Corporation is doing a house-to-house survey of the 5,500 housing units we have. Every person in your riding that lives in public housing will be consulted and they will know how the new rental program affects them. They will be consulted with and it will be explained to them in their own language. That is the process we will be using.

For those people who are unemployed, this isn't going to affect them. If you are not capable of paying rent, if you are unemployed, that is what the social housing program is there for, to assist those people. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. The Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yellowknife is different than the outlying communities. The need is different, as well. The majority of the need in Yellowknife is an affordability need and the majority of the need in the communities is there is just no housing available. It's as simple as that. Yellowknife has public housing, it has the North Slave social housing and there is also the access program. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Housing. The Advisory Committee on Social Housing was established by this Legislative Assembly. The committee includes ordinary Members, and yourself, Mr. Minister. It is expected that the committee will provide recommendations to the government on social housing issues. Does the Minister see any conflict between his role as a Minister and as the chairman of this committee which will make recommendations to the government?

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.