Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is the Minister satisfied that we are doing enough internal audits each year, or are we falling behind and not getting as many done as he would like to see done?
Debates of Feb. 21st, 1994
Topics
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 260
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Pollard Hay River
Mr. Chairman, when we get called to an audit that where there is the possibility of wrong-doing or miscalculation or there has been money misplaced, then we have to drop other things and rush off to that. It may be in conjunction with the RCMP or other areas of the government. That takes up considerable time. What we lose, then, is the ability to grind away at just that regular auditing, where we are doing ten per cent sampling on this particular file and 20 per cent sampling on another file, which are turning up those errors that staff are making inadvertently and perhaps getting away from the policies. I suppose that we could do more if we had more resources. But, at the present time, we are doing the best we can with what we have been allocated, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 260
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. How many years is it in the cycle? I am assuming that most departments are audited on a cyclic basis. If that is true, how many years, on average, is there between cycles where a department might get audited?
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 260
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 260
John Pollard Hay River
Mr. Chairman, depending on what issues are being raised with us by other departments or the department in question or what things are coming to mind, we usually are on a seven to ten year cycle. Of course, again, the Auditor General is doing work in this area as well, so we try not to be in the same place at the same time, because at least we are getting some double coverage in that respect. There are about seven to ten years, Mr. Chairman, for a full audit.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 260
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 260
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could the Minister advise us what he would see as being the optimal range? Would he prefer to see it done every five to seven years or four to five years? If we are at seven to ten now, and he has
indicated that he would prefer to see more audits done, what does he see as being the optimal cycle?
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 260
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Pollard Hay River
My preference, Mr. Chairman, would be five to seven years. Just tightening it up by another couple of years would get us going over the same ground more often and it would give us tighter control. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 260
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 260
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What sort of staff increase would be required to accomplish that goal? Would it take a doubling in current staff?
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 260
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 260
John Pollard Hay River
Mr. Chairman, we have never really calculated that, but I would have to say it would probably take us another five positions. That would be a major expense at the present time. Thank you.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 260
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I noticed, also, that one of the tasks in this activity is information. I am assuming that informatics is involved in this. Could the Minister advise what is the status of the informatics strategy and when can we expect to see the final report?
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 260
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Pollard Hay River
We anticipate that it is going to be in front of the Financial Management Board this coming March, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 260
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Ningark Natilikmiot
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We lack the human resources in the system whereby there were frauds coming out from left and right these past years. What are we doing for the prevention? I understand, in the system, there are times when cheques are actually not signed by a person, but they are stamped with a signature of a person who is authorized to sign them. There is the possibility that fraud may occur during a transaction of the money dispersement, paying for the bills and so forth. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the honourable Minister if we have people co-signing cheques going out to the suppliers that we buy from, how does the fraud -- when a person steals money from the system -- occur? How does it happen? Thank you.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 260
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 261
John Pollard Hay River
Mr. Chairman, we mass produce cheques. The Member is correct. They are automatically signed. They are stamped. There is a cheque register that is maintained. The cheques are numbered. The amounts are listed. At the end of the day, the batch run of cheques should balance with the cheque register. Of course, when the cheques go out, Mr. Chairman, eventually they go through our bank account, so there is a bank reconciliation done. At the end of a particular period of time, we would know how many cheques are still outstanding, which ones have been cashed. That is generally the way that our accounting is kept of the cheques that are issued and run through our bank account. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 261
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 261
John Ningark Natilikmiot
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are times when a person pays for licenses and fees by way of cash. Of course, cash exchanges hands from time to time. Is there a close monitor in the system whereby, when the cash is actually changing hands, this is monitored?