This is page numbers 367 - 397 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was education.

Topics

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The committee will now come to order. Good afternoon. What is the wish of the committee? Yesterday we were dealing with Bill 1, Committee Report 2-12(5) and Tabled Document 3-12(5). What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I recommend that the committee continue with consideration of Bill 1, Committee Report 2-12(5) and Tabled Document 3-12(5) and, in particular, continue with general comments on, Towards a Strategy to 2010: A Discussion Paper.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Okay. Does the committee agree that we proceed into Tabled Document 3-12(5), Bill 1 and Committee Report 2-12(5)? Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Does the Minister wish to bring in any witnesses?

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Yes, Mr. Chairman. I would like to bring in witnesses at this time.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Sergeant-at-Arms, would you escort the witnesses to the witness table? Mr. Minister, would you introduce your witnesses to the committee?

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my left is the deputy minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Hal Gerein. On my right is Mrs. Helen Balanoff, who is involved in the development of the strategy to 2010.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Mr. Dent.

General Comments

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I welcome this opportunity to talk about the education strategy. I think it is long overdue, getting a discussion on this subject under way. For the record, I would like to say that I totally agree with my

colleagues from the Standing Committee on Finance that education should be this government's number one priority.

Yesterday, the Minister and Mrs. Balanoff outlined, in some detail, the reasons for the discussion paper being so long in coming and why it is so general. I do have to admit some disappointment that I don't see what we have been presented with as a strategy. I think that was admitted yesterday. It is more a listing of what needs to be considered in the development of the strategy. Given the importance of education, the importance that I put on it and I think this government should, I have to say I had hoped we would be farther along in the process. What I was expecting was that the discussion paper would take positions and present arguments as to why they should be adopted by the department as a road or path to follow as a method of stimulating the discussion.

I hope that we will shortly hear when we can expect that next step to take place. For example, if you take a look at pages 21 to 23 of the discussion paper, we had a clear delineation of what people have apparently expressed as concerns. What I find surprising is if people were expressing these concerns, I would have thought they would have also, at the same time, been expressing some ideas or strategies for dealing with those concerns. I am a bit surprised that they are not listed here.

As well, I think it is unfortunate that too many of the pathways or solutions that are discussed in the paper tend to be bland motherhood statements without recommending a clear direction that gives us anything new to discuss. For instance, a section on using resources for adult education and training, the report suggests that the department could determine our priorities in this area and target our resources to our priorities in partnership with communities and industry. I think that goes without saying. That is something we always knew the department could do and had hoped they were doing.

Another one is the department could find ways to deliver programs more efficiently, particularly by reducing administration costs. Again, I say given the financial situation we have been in for the past few years, I am surprised that we haven't already examined our administration costs and made sure that we have streamlined as much as possible, so we are doing things in the most effective and economic manner. Economic manner would be what I really want to say there.

Not to be overly critical, because we hit an important point yesterday. I think the Minister's statement yesterday is very important. I see it as reflecting a shift in the approach by the department and I welcome and encourage that shift. I really was pleased by the Minister's statement yesterday on excellence and I am encouraged by that shift in philosophy. I have to say on our first reading of this discussion paper, the Members of the Standing Committee on Finance were concerned that we didn't see any reference to excellence in the discussion paper. So having the Minister add that yesterday indicates a very important step has been taken by the department. That is good. As has been said earlier today in the House, rather than dwelling on what should have been done or how we could have gotten farther along in trying to lay blame, we have to take a very positive approach in trying to get things on the road.

In that light, I would like to make some comments that I would hope the department would immediately start to look for areas, for instance, in partnerships. That is one of the areas we have to get moving on very quickly.

When I was chairing the Special Committee on Health and Social Services, and Mrs. Balanoff mentioned yesterday in her presentation the early intervention program that we highlighted in Pelly Bay, this sort of program can make some significant differences. It is unfortunate that program didn't have a formal evaluation. But the informal comments I have heard from people who were involved in the program, tend to indicate that it was extremely successful and the children who were targeted are doing much better than might otherwise have been expected. That sort of program, if this department will cooperate with other departments like Health and Social Services to ensure we get some early intervention, I think offers us the best chance for improving our results overall. I would encourage that that area become a serious focus for examination. Whether it is a "head-start" program or an early intervention program, we have to be looking at the earliest possible intervention. From what I have seen, the earlier you can intervene to improve opportunities for success, the better your chances. That doesn't mean we can get away from the needs of people who may be a little bit on in their years, but still need some help. That is why I hope the Standing Committee on Finance recommendation for the partners for youth program will also be taken as an area for concentration by the department. Again, it requires cooperation from several departments.

In the discussion paper, there is some talk about the need for interdepartmental cooperation between Health, Social Services and Education. It all has to be tied together. There has to be a very broad approach to how we achieve success. In those areas, the department, I hope, sees ways in which to move and will agree to move in them very quickly. You have to do some consultation, you have to work with the boards, you have to work with people in the Northwest Territories, but now you have indicated that you have heard from people. I want to urge the department to get moving. Let's take the next step. Let's set out the priorities, plan and ask for a reaction to that plan. Let's get working to make sure we are providing the best system of education possible for all the people in the Northwest Territories. Mr. Chairman, let's get some results. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I concur with the honourable Member. I realize that sometimes the details may be absent, but the advice the honourable Member is giving is what we are looking for in terms of the things we need to do in the north. As we get that advice, we will become more specific about the actual ways which we respond to the comments made by the honourable Member regarding the working relationships or for that matter the partnerships and early intervention. It is our view that, as was stated by the honourable Member, early intervention is an absolutely essential part of our future programming that has to be considered in order for us to be even more successful.

When we go back to the Special Committee on Education in the early 1980s, it took them almost two years and almost $3 million to do the work. What that committee took two years to do, we did in one year. We understand the concern the honourable Member has made. While this is a discussion paper, it is our view that we want to have the document which outlines our responses broadly, not only that but more specifically, by June of this year. Then we can start to see what the solutions are.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Minister Nerysoo. General comments. Mr. Ningark.

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe that, as was mentioned many times during my time as a Member of this legislature, education is fundamentally important, not only to the government, but to the people in the small communities. It is so important that we should not lose sight of getting the parents and communities involved. In this report, under the heading partnership, more community control should be given to the communities. I agree with that 100 per cent, Mr. Chairman. There are many times in a community when the parents should be involved in the educational system, but because they are not able to spend time in school, they don't seem to be a part of the education system, although they are very sensitive to the type of education that is given in their respective community.

One of those is an important factor of educating the young people, especially in predominantly native communities, in traditional skills. I don't see that in the report here. I think this is fundamentally important to all the people in the small communities, in the west and in the east.

During my time as a Member of this Legislative Assembly, I travelled quite extensively in the Kitikmeot region, meeting with divisional boards, the Kitikmeot regional council, the KIA, and those people involved in traditional activities in that region. At just about every opportunity, what was brought up by the people who do not have the benefit of having gone through an elementary type of education, was the importance of young kids knowing how to survive on the land, especially in this harsh environment.

There are people who have full-time jobs, but on the weekends they go out hunting, not really knowing how to survive in the event that the elements have not taken a liking to the person who is out there. Especially to young people, survival is very, very important. I thought that traditional skills should be part of the system, not only in the classroom but out on the land as well. I think Mr. Gargan has mentioned that many times. I should give the Member credit for that .

When I spoke of the utilization of high schools in Yellowknife by students from other regions, I may have sounded like I am not supporting the high schools in the regions. Quite on the contrary, Mr. Chairman, I think that the best thing that has ever happened since education was introduced to smaller communities, is that the government is finally building high schools in the regions. I hope the small communities will be the next step so that every community will have their own education system including high school and post-secondary education. If we want to academize people -- maybe I can use a new term here -- then we should really bring education to the community. Not the community to education, but education to the community. This is very important.

In question period earlier, I mentioned that I know the Minister is trying his very best to try to get quality education but there are overflows in the regions. I know that because of the kids in my community, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there was a fair amount of interest shown by the Ordinary Members' Caucus in Tabled Document 3-12(5), Towards a Strategy to 2010: A Discussion Paper. Most of the Ordinary Members' Caucus are not able to be here for this debate because of the other function they're attending. So, if I may, I wish we can wait until we have other Members in attendance, people like Mr. Patterson and other people who I know are interested in this particular document. I wish they could be here during the time when we discuss it.

Again, I would like to commend the Minister and his department officials for the initiative they have taken. I think most of the speakers in this particular debate recognized that the Minister, Mr. Richard Nerysoo, has done a remarkable job in putting this strategy together. I would like to commend the Minister for that. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. General comments. The chair recognizes Mr. Ballantyne.

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Mr. Chairman, first of all I would like to thank Ms. Balanoff for a very informative presentation. I know she's done a lot of work in this whole area for a long time. She deserves a lot of credit. She did a very good job. The Premier and the government also have to get some recognition for the reorganization of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. I think this particular reorganization was the right one. It was a good one and it brings together the proper resources to deal with a lot of the problems that are facing us in the territories.

Mr. Nerysoo comes to the portfolio as a very experienced Minister. He's got a long-range perspective on the north in politics and how a Minister functions. Mr. Gerein, who I've known for a long time, is, I think, one of our most able and thoughtful deputy ministers. I think the team is in place to do some very good things in this area. I think we have to go back a little bit when I'm giving some credit here. I think Mr. Kakfwi and Mr. Handley did a lot to set the scene to get us to where we are right now. They provided a pretty solid base that the new team can jump off from.

We talked about excellence and there are a lot of good ideas in this discussion paper. I think Charles has said, very well, that now the time has come to put these ideas into a format where we can start to get results. The two major components, to me, of any education strategy are as follows. The first one is excellence. We've talked a lot about that. The other one is one that is sometimes forgotten, and any success in education comes through a partnership with parents, administration, teachers, boards and the Legislative Assembly. They all have to work together. But, there has to be always one test that you put any policy through and that is, is it good for the student?

What happens a lot of time is that policies can be good for the politicians because they look good. Or it could be good for the bureaucrats because it facilitates the bureaucratic process. Or it can be good for the administrators because whatever their pecking orders may be, it is good for that. A lot of times we lose that primary focus. To me, any policy, any objective, goal or strategy put in place always has to pass that test. Will it lead us to excellence and is it best for the student? I think if you keep those as the fundamental basics, it would be pretty hard to go wrong.

What I see coming from this is a tremendous amount of discussion, dialogue and consultation. We've done a lot of that. I think what the Minister needs right now is a short, strong agenda with really tight time frames that is really action-oriented, as well as definitive objectives with accountability built in. I think the Minister has to move fast and move hard on this. I think it's so important now, and it's important in both the east and the west. In the east, moving into a new territory, it is important to set the scene for this as a major priority, to say these are our objectives. That should translate into either territory. I applaud the work that has been done by the department. My only advice is that now is the time for strong action. Thank you, very much.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Mr. Minister, did you wish to respond? General comments. Mr. Arvaluk.

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am happy to see the report that I had discussions about earlier in my political career. I am proud that there are some positive directions that will take place. At least, directions for us to work on. It is important for NWT residents, whether you are a parent, student or citizen, to achieve the strategy to the year 2010.

I cannot forget when I went to school, because there were no high schools -- in fact, I think the federal government had a policy not to put aboriginal people beyond grade nine or maybe it was too expensive -- I had to go to school elsewhere like everyone else. When I went to high school, I found it so easy that I declared that by 1970, all Inuit or aboriginal people will have university degrees. You can virtually do grades nine to 11 in nine months. However, the atmosphere changed. The parents were changed by society or perhaps governmental policies. In other words, how to behave towards your children or how to leave them alone and have the teacher become a babysitter. It will be very important that we get the parents back into the process, not just leave it up to the teachers. I welcome this document. I know there are still a lot of things missing, but I am willing to work with this document so that the inevitable situation does not take place. That is depression, recession and lack of development in terms of the economy or human resources. With that, I am very happy that Towards a Strategy to 2010: A Discussion Paper, has been tabled. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. General comments. Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is difficult to say any more. I appreciate the advice that Members have given us. I did offer to meet individually with MLAs previously. As we get on with some of the work, I am hoping maybe some of the individual MLAs who have specific ideas or specific issues we hope we can address in developing the strategy, that we can get their advice and input. Please feel free to communicate with me on some of the more specific issues that you may have and the specific suggestions you might be prepared to give. By June of this year, we will have the details as a result of this discussion document to present to Members of Cabinet and, of course, yourselves and the general public for additional discussion this fall. Then we can get final approval.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Ningark.

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Since the document, Towards a Strategy to 2010: A Discussion Paper, is very important, not only to Members of this Legislature, I would like to ask the Minister if divisional boards have been made aware of the strategy or given a copy? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes. In fact, they have already provided input into some of the issues that are a part of the discussion document at this juncture. We have requested some more specific advice from them. We sent the information to most of the CECs, hamlets, all of the chiefs and councils, all of the Metis locals and we have provided it to any other organizations that are involved in education and cultural programming. We hope to have their advice and input during this process.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. These documents are now public documents. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.