This is page numbers 399 - 427 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was community.

Topics

Committee Motion 16-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 26, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 411

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Everybody has a copy of this motion. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 16-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 26, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 411

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 16-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 26, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 411

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 16-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 26, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 411

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to make one brief comment. I think that it should be understood and, perhaps, stated here that this motion should also require policies, processes and legislation regarding not just the dissolution but also the re-establishment or reinstatement of municipal councils. I think that is inherent in the motion, Mr. Chairman. But, it has come to my attention, for example, in Iqaluit, that now that the dust has settled on the dissolution, members of the current municipal advisory committee and also constituents are saying, how do we get reinstated? How do we get a council reinstated? So, I think the point I wish to make is that the procedures that should be reviewed should also provide a clear and understandable process for when a council can be reinstated as well as dissolved. So, I think it is a good motion, and I just wanted to make that point of clarification before we put it to the question.

Committee Motion 16-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 26, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 411

The Chair Brian Lewis

Okay. An amendment wouldn't be necessary, then, with that clarification, so we all know what we are voting on. The motion is in order. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Zoe.

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 411

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, I would like to move the following recommendation of the Standing Committee on Finance: I move that the committee recommends that the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs identify community development in smaller communities as a priority and develop a plan which spells out how the department will address this priority. Further, that this plan should be made available to the Standing Committee on Finance prior to its review of the 1995-96 capital estimates. Thank you.

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 411

The Chair Brian Lewis

The motion is in order. Does everybody have a copy of the motion? Mr. Arvaluk.

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 411

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am in support of this motion, although not so much in the small communities at this time. There are very poorly coordinated efforts between different departments of what the capital needs are, especially in small communities. For example, in Repulse Bay, we have crushed rock used for municipal roads and development sites. Because it is in a small community, that community is issued a regular dump truck that is designed for sand hauling, not rocks and boulders the size of Madam Speaker's table. They are dumped in the dump truck from the payloader right into the box of the truck. Of course, the truck box is only a quarter of an inch thick and it becomes bent completely out of shape. After a while, the rocks start going through the box completely.

Within one summer and a half, the truck was absolutely useless because it not only works overtime, it was also allowed to take on the work that is beyond its capability. Yet, in the capital plans, there is no immediate plan to replace it. I am very, very hopeful that this motion, recommendation 27, will be reviewed very carefully and abided by the government so that these sorts of scenarios in small communities will no longer continue. Qujannamiik.

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 412

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, very much, Mr. Arvaluk. To the motion.

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 412

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 412

The Chair Brian Lewis

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

You've offered, Mr. Minister, to answer some questions. Mr. Zoe, sorry.

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 412

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, that concludes the report of the Standing Committee on Finance pertaining to Municipal and Community Affairs. Thank you.

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 412

The Chair Brian Lewis

The report was concluded before we went to the motion, Mr. Zoe.

---Laughter

Thanks, Mr. Zoe. You offered to answer some questions for the committee, Mr. Arngna'naaq, so would you like to take the witness table and get some help? Sergeant-at-Arms, conduct the witnesses to the table, please. Oh, but I don't have the authority to do that. Are Members happy with that proposal?

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 412

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 412

The Chair Brian Lewis

Okay. Mr. Arngna'naaq, would you like to identify your witnesses for the record, please?

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 412

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my right is Mr. Al Menard, the deputy minister of the department and to my left is Jim France, director of finance and administration.

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 412

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, very much, Mr. Arngna'naaq. Do Members have either comments or questions that they would like to pose for the Minister? Mr. Arvaluk.

General Comments

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 412

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a general comment first and I probably will have more specific questions after. I received a copy of a letter that was addressed to the honourable Minister responsible for MACA regarding formula funding for hamlets. I will just elaborate a little bit because I have elaborated on it for the Minister of Finance already. Last week, I said I would be presenting this case to the Minister when he comes before this committee to deal with MACA's O and M. The hamlet councils and I are concerned that the formula funding currently being provided to the hamlets is insufficient to meet the increasing demands being put on municipal governments in the NWT, particularly the small communities within Nunavut that I mentioned before. Since the development of the prime buy concept, hamlet councils have been assuming greater responsibility for evaluating and deciding upon critical local development issues. As the formation of Nunavut approaches, the volume of activity for hamlets within Nunavut is increasing even more than before.

Currently, hamlets feel they have insufficient funding for basic administrative support to deal with the routine business of running a municipal corporation. The administrative support is insufficient to devote the time needed for policy and program development in support of the council. Mr. Chairman, what I'm trying to say here is, hamlets do not only have to deal with MACA in the day to day running of the community. Other departments, agencies and organizations do not fund municipalities to deal with program and policy development. For example, the Nunasi Corporation, the NTI, DPW and Education all come to the hamlet for support that takes quite a bit of hamlets' time. Both in terms of the council's time and the administration time. There are not sufficient funds to allow other activities to take place in the area of policy and program development.

What we have been seeing is that there are too many people involved in separate programs at the territorial government level. That also creates much of the problem. One small example of this is that last year, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment advised us that funding for an apprentice that we had on staff in the hamlet was being eliminated. Since we could no longer afford to keep that person without funding assistance, we issued the person a lay- off notice. Within a couple of days of issuing the lay-off notice, another person from within the same office of the government advised us that they did have another program through which the person could be funded. This is but one small example of how it is confusing if you are a hamlet dealing with all kinds of departments. It becomes very frustrating. If there was one department dealing and coordinating with hamlets and between the departments the hamlet is dealing with, this would make it a lot easier.

Another issue of concern is the employees of the hamlets have requested that they be given equal treatment with the GNWT employees, with respect to vacation travel assistance. I talked about this with the Minister of Finance when he was at the witness table. Currently, the hamlet of Coral Harbour, for example, follows the old system whereby those going out on the land don't get nearly as much as those who take a flight somewhere like Winnipeg. As the majority of our hamlet employees either take on the land assistance or fly to destinations much closer to Coral Harbour than Winnipeg, the hamlet could not afford the additional funds required to move to the new government system without significant increases in the amount of formula funding that currently exists.

What the hamlet is requesting is that our formula funding be increased so that we can provide the same level of benefits to hamlet employees as government employees currently enjoy. The concern, Mr. Chairman, is that there is pressure, fairly attractive pressure, to have the hamlet be more involved under the transfer initiative program. Some of these initiatives will affect present government employees. For example, if the hamlet wants to take over the Department of Public Works, the maintenance person from Public Works will probably be transferred to the hamlet but that person will want to continue to enjoy his present benefits. Because such a move will probably be blended into the formula funding, rather than a separate agreement, that person will be denied what he used to enjoy when he was a government employee.

These are the kinds of concerns, Mr. Chairman, that the hamlet and I look forward to getting a favourable response on. I totally support the hamlet's request that there is an overview, at least a review of the present formula financing in light of the initiatives that will be taking place under the Honourable Minister Kakfwi.

Another concern I have in my general comments, Mr. Chairman, is that I asked a question of the Minister of MACA early this afternoon that required just a yes or no answer. On February 22, the Minister could not reply to my question regarding hockey players -- who happened to come from a small community, that being Coral Harbour -- who came in second and not one of them was selected for the Arctic Winter Games team. When the Minister did not know what the selection process was, I asked him to look into it and he promised to look into the matter to ensure that fairness and equality was practised in the selection process to avoid discrimination against small communities. My simple question this morning was, had the Minister found out why no players from the senior men's hockey team that came in second place were chosen to represent the Northwest Territories in the Arctic Winter Games in Slave Lake, Alberta this month.

My simple question, Mr. Chairman, was had the Minister found out. The answer should have been yes or no, either he found out or didn't find out. He took the question as notice. I really wonder why the question was taken as notice when the answer would have been yes or no. If he hadn't found out, fine. If he had, I would have wanted to find out what the selection process is that was used. I was a little bit disappointed. We have only four days left before Arctic Winter Games starts. I believe they start on Saturday and it would be very nice to be able to report back to Coral Harbour to say what I found out. To say either, we're sorry, we're still very proud of you but this is what the Minister said. Yet, to date, I have not received a response. These are my general comments, Mr. Chairman. If we are going through the estimates line by line, I will probably have more. Qujannamiik.

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 413

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. Those were general comments. There were no questions in there. There were references to questions that were already answered in the formal session. But, if the Minister wants to respond to the comments, he may.

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 413

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There were a number of different items in the comments made by the Member. I think if he were to ask specific questions, I would be able to respond. As far as the particular question that the Member asked earlier this afternoon, I didn't realize the Member was asking for a yes or no answer and I apologize for that. I would like to indicate that I have not come to a complete answer to that particular question which is why I took the question as notice.

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 413

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Arngna'naaq. Are there any other Members? Mr. Arvaluk, I had thought you had finished your general comments? Yes. Mr. Ballantyne.

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 413

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Mr. Chairman, as a general comment, the Standing Committee on Finance is generally satisfied with the work of this department. We do have one question. There were, I think, 27 definitive objectives put forth by the department in the main estimates book. It was the observation of the standing committee that most departments seem to have quite a large number of objectives for the year. A definitive objective is supposed to be an objective that can be realized reasonably within the course of a year. We asked for some detail from each department as to how they were actually going to complete their objectives, when they took specific time frames, et cetera.

I observe that we have received a page of 1994-95 initiatives back from the department. It just has two objectives on the page. Perhaps the Minister could explain to me how this all works. Are these two the two they expect to get done and they don't expect to get the rest done? Or, are these the two most important ones? Or, do we only have a partial list and the rest of the information is forthcoming?

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 413

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 413

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The page the Member has just mentioned indicates new initiatives the department is working on for the upcoming year. There are some pages on the objectives of the department for the coming year as well. But these two are the only initiatives the department plans to undertake for this fiscal year.

Committee Motion 17-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 413

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Ballantyne.