Thank you. Good afternoon. Before beginning orders of the day, I would like to provide my ruling on the point of privilege raised by the Honourable Richard Nerysoo on Friday, March 4, 1994. Members may recall, Mr. Nerysoo's point of privilege was twofold. He expressed concern with respect to a Member's statement made by the Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Charles Dent, on February 29, 1994. Secondly, he raised a concern with respect to the media's interpretation of Mr. Dent's statement.

By way of background, Mr. Dent had risen under the item, Members' statements, on Monday, February 28, indicating he was speaking on behalf of the Ordinary Members' Caucus, to voice the concerns of the OMC with respect to the absence of the Minister from the House during the budget process. Specifically, Mr. Dent had indicated a concern that Members had only been advised of the Minister's absence that morning and felt that this reflected and I quote, "a cavalier attitude" on the part of the Minister given that this department estimates were being considered by the House.

The Honourable Richard Nerysoo took exception to this statement and, in raising his point of privilege, stated on page 1218 of unedited Hansard, "The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake and other Members have suggested that somehow I'm guilty of not advising anyone, this House, my colleagues and other Members." Mr. Nerysoo went on to state, "They have found that I was not willing to be present without finding out all the facts about whether I had advised any of my colleagues and this House of my absence."

Upon his return from meetings in southern Canada, Mr. Nerysoo tabled on March 2, extracts from unedited Hansard of February 16, which indicated that he had in the course of a Minister's statement made that day, advised the House of his expected absence towards the end of February.

The basis of the honourable Member's point of privilege is that the statements made by Mr. Dent, and subsequently reported in the media, were a challenge to his personal honour, his character and his integrity.

Due to the significance of the issue raised, and the Member's obvious concern, Mr. Lewis, the Deputy Speaker, asked for debate so as to assist the chair in arriving at a decision. Mr. Dent responded to the point of privilege by stating and I quote from unedited Hansard on page 1220, "The Minister has been back in the House for two and one half days now, and this point was not raised when it was first possible." Mr. Dent further stated that his statement was made on behalf of the Ordinary Members' Caucus, so obviously ordinary Members were not aware that the Minister was going to be away. He felt that if there was a breakdown in communication that this issue was one that should be addressed in another forum and was not appropriately the topic of a point of privilege.

As Members know, rules 19(2) provides that "When a matter of privilege arises, it shall be taken into consideration immediately." Our rules also provide in rule 19(1) that, "A Member may always raise a question of privilege in the Assembly immediately after the words are uttered or the events occur that give rise to the question." Finally, for the point of privilege to be dealt with in a substantive fashion by this House, I must first determine whether (a) that there has been a prima facie breach of privilege and (b) that the matter has been raised at the earliest opportunity.

On the first issue of whether a prima facie case of privilege exists, I have reflected on the role and purpose that parliamentary privilege plays within a democratic system. As Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms, 6th edition, states at citation 24, "Parliamentary privilege is a sum of the peculiar rights enjoyed by each House collectively as a constituent part of the high court of Parliament and by Members of each House individually, without which they could not discharge their functions and which exceed those possessed by other bodies or individuals...The privileges of Parliaments are those rights which are 'absolutely necessary for the due execution of its powers'."

I note that Mr. Nerysoo also offered this citation in his argument on the point of privilege.

I also direct the Members to Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms, 6th edition, citation 69 which states, "The Speaker has reminded the House, 'It is very important to indicate that something can be inflammatory, can be disagreeable, can even be offensive, but it may not be a question of privilege unless the comment actually impinges upon the ability of Members of Parliament to do their job properly'."

After reviewing the portions of unedited Hansard dealing with Mr. Dent's Member's statement, Mr. Nerysoo's tabling of Hansard extracts in reply and Mr. Nerysoo's point of privilege, I find that Mr. Nerysoo does not have a point of privilege. What is clear from unedited Hansard is that Mr. Nerysoo and Mr. Dent both have differing recollections of whether the House was advised of Mr. Nerysoo's planned absence earlier than the Minister's statement made by the Government House Leader on February 28. Disagreement between Members may give rise to one Member taking offence at the statement of another, however, I do not believe, on these facts, that the statements made by Mr. Dent were serious or offensive so as to attract the broad protection of parliamentary privilege. In reaching my decision on the matter, I have relied on citation 31(1) of Beauchesne's which states, "A dispute arising between two Members as to allegations of facts, does not fulfil the conditions of parliamentary privilege." I find that Mr. Dent's statements, and the obvious dispute here as to the facts, are not comparable to the factual situation cited in Beauchesne's citations 64 to 66 and citation 70 wherein prima facie breaches of privilege were found.

It is not the chair's responsibility to determine if Mr. Nerysoo or Mr. Dent's facts are correct unless there is an obvious breach of privilege. In reviewing this matter, it became evident that although not a breach of privilege, there were certain actions that need to be considered by all Members when making statements and following House procedures. I would suggest that there may be a need to tighten up the procedures for informing the House of the absences of Ministers and perhaps this could be addressed by the Government House Leader and the Cabinet. I am sure it would greatly assist the ordinary Members if the House could be advised, not on the day of the Minister's absence, but prior to the required absence of the particular Minister.

Agreed.

I would also urge that when ordinary Members and, in fact, all Members are going to make statements in this House, they do the necessary research and make every effort to present their facts correctly prior to speaking on an issue. This careful attention could avoid these types of disagreements. Our Legislative Assembly is a forum for discussion of serious issues affecting northerners, it is not a forum which should be treated lightly or without respect for the accuracy of facts that are cited within this House.

I would also like to comment on the Member's lack of timeliness in raising his point of privilege. The statements alleged to be offensive were spoken on February 28, 1994. The records of the House indicate that Mr. Nerysoo was present in the House on March 2 and 3, 1994. Mr. Nerysoo did not raise his point of privilege until half way through House proceedings on March 4, 1994, notwithstanding the fact that he was clearly aware of Mr. Dent's statement as evidenced by tabling on March 2, 1994, extracts from Hansard dealing with his travel plans. Our rules clearly provide that a point of privilege must be raised at the first available opportunity and I rule that, in this case, the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta did not raise his point of privilege in a timely fashion as required by our rules.

In addition, I would like to advise Members that the statements reflecting on the conduct of a Member in his or her capacity as a Member in and out of the House, tends to lower the integrity of the House as a whole in the eyes of the public. There are actions which, while not directly, in a physical way obstruct the House or a Member, which may not be a point of privilege, but nevertheless could obstruct the House in the performance of its functions by diminishing the respect due to it. I would suggest that reflections upon Members and their activities during proceedings are equivalent to reflections on or of the House. I trust that Members will reflect prior to making remarks to ensure that the dignity and integrity of this institution is held in high regard by the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Keewatin Central, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to take this opportunity to inform Members of this House of the results of my trip to Toronto and Ottawa last week.

On March 7 and 9, Mr. Kelvin Ng, Mr. Henry Zoe, Mr. Michael Ballantyne, Mr. Charles Dent and myself attended the annual Prospectors and Developers Association meeting in Toronto.

I was pleased to note the large northern component to this conference and the general excitement amongst participants about mineral development, particularly with regard to the potential of the ongoing diamond explorations in the Northwest Territories.

Aside from the Government of the Northwest Territories' booth, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, the city of Yellowknife and several northern businesses had booths in the main pavilion.

Madam Speaker, the Toronto conference provided the opportunity for our delegation to meet privately with Dr. Klaus Zeitler, president and chief executive officer of Metall Mining Ltd and Mr. John Stephensen, president of Kennecott Canada Inc to discuss their companies' plans for mineral development in the Slave geological corridor.

During our meeting with Metall, Dr. Zeitler confirmed that the Izok Lake Project has been delayed because of low base metal prices, the record stockpiles of metal and the high transportation costs associated with this project.

However, both Metall and Kennecott indicated that there is some requirement for transportation infrastructure to ensure the economic viability of mining projects in the Slave geological corridor.

While all parties recognized that sole government financing for this type of infrastructure is highly improbable, I stressed our government's commitment to look for new and creative ways to finance transportation infrastructure in partnership with industry and the aboriginal claimant groups.

Both Metall and Kennecott agreed to participate in a joint government/industry working committee to identify infrastructure needs and financing options for the orderly development of the mining potential in the Slave geological corridor.

In Ottawa, the Honourable John Pollard and myself met with the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development to discuss, amongst other issues, mining developments in the Slave corridor and also the government's role in assisting the orderly development of the mining potential of this region. To this end, Minister Irwin has agreed to identify a senior departmental staff member to participate in the joint working group on infrastructure.

Madam Speaker, the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development also agreed to begin negotiations for the eventual devolution of responsibility for oil and gas and minerals to the Government of the Northwest Territories.

As I have stated previously in this House, such an agreement is essential to ensure that the interests of all northerners are protected should major non-renewable resource projects proceed.

Over the next several months, the Department of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources will be meeting with all interested organizations, including all the aboriginal claimant groups to discuss this initiative and ensure that they are kept fully abreast of these negotiations.

Madam Speaker, this trip also provided the opportunity to introduce the transportation agenda to several federal Ministers. Although no substantive discussions were held on the financing for the agenda, I intend to pursue this matter with my federal counterparts in the immediate future.

I also met with the Honourable John Manley, Minister of Industry, on March 8, to discuss the current negotiations on internal trade. This issue is of great importance to the Northwest Territories as we require assurance that our business incentive and affirmative action policies are protected prior to entering into any agreement that would reduce internal trade barriers.

I intend to reinforce this point with Minister Manley and my provincial counterparts again in Halifax next month at the meeting of Ministers of Internal Trade.

Madam Speaker, before I conclude, I would like to particularly thank our two Members of Parliament, the Honourable Ethel Blondin-Andrew and Mr. Jack Anawak, for taking time out of their busy schedules to attend the meetings in Ottawa and for lending their support to the Government of the Northwest Territories' position on these issues. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River, Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Good afternoon. Madam Speaker, I am pleased to advise this House that, with the support of affected health and hospital boards, the Department of Health has signed a letter of understanding with the Royal Alexandra Hospital (RAH) in Edmonton. This is the first step in a process which will result in the development of an organized support arrangement for the NWT health system in the western Arctic and Kitikmeot.

Preparation for the arrangement included discussions with board chairs, executive directors and professional staff members of the Fort Smith Health Centre, the H H Williams Memorial Hospital, the Inuvik regional health board, the Kitikmeot health board, Stanton Yellowknife Hospital and the Mackenzie regional health service and included a recent visit to Royal Alexandra Hospital by board representatives.

Briefly, the primary objectives are:

1. To formalize the status of the Royal Alexandra Hospital as the principal referral centre for residents of western Arctic communities, as well as the Kitikmeot and as the facilitator for access to services provided by its partner institutions and agencies in Edmonton; and,

2. To provide support arrangements for the department, health and hospital boards and health professionals in the NWT, in the interests of improving the health of and health services for NWT residents with the aim of providing services as close to home as possible.

The signed letter of understanding forms the basis upon which a formal agreement can now be developed. This will require the active involvement of boards on a joint steering committee to guide the process. I have asked the deputy minister of Health to expedite the creation of a steering committee with representation from Stanton Yellowknife Hospital, the NWT Medical Association, the Department of Health, the affected health boards and Royal Alexandra Hospital and to proceed with the development of a formal agreement. Madam Speaker, I might add that there may be other people we'll consult with in that process.

In the interim, the Royal Alexandra Hospital will create an administrative unit to deal with NWT health service requirements and make specific support arrangements, including additional efforts to meet the language and cultural requirements of aboriginal residents.

Royal Alexandra Hospital supports the inclusion of NWT representation on the governing board of Royal Alexandra Hospital and on any successor board that might be created.

The department believes that this initiative has the potential to secure and improve health services for NWT residents who must be treated in Alberta, while supporting the maximum use of NWT resources. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Prior to going to Members' statements, I want to advise this House that I have received a letter dated March 15 to the Honourable Jeannie Marie-Jewell, Speaker of the Legislative Assembly. "Dear Madam Speaker, I wish to advise that I recommend to the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories the passage of Bill 14, An Act to Amend the Borrowing Authorization Act, during the Fifth Session of the 12th Legislative Assembly. Yours truly, D L Norris, Commissioner."

Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the NWT workers' training fund initiative has been well received by the communities and the people of the NWT. Many young people have been given the opportunity to take advantage of such an initiative. Although we were not able to please everyone, we were able to help many young women and men to gain some work experience which will prepare them for the future.

I would like to commend the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment for a job well done.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Amittuq, Mr. Allooloo.

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to inform the House of a search and rescue that recently took place in my constituency, specifically, Igloolik. (Translation ends)

On February 27, 1994, Eric Nutarareak and David Irquittug left to go hunting and planned to return home the next day. When the two hunters had not arrived by March 1, the community became concerned and organized a search of the area where the two men were thought to be hunting. Ground search parties sent from Igloolik and Hall Beach, however, did not have success.

On March 3, the air search people provided the use of their twin otter aircraft with local spotters. The community also received assistance from the GNWT through the community organized search for missing persons policy. The extensive and intensive search continued for the next five days.

Madam Speaker, I'm very happy to report that on the evening of Monday, March 7, 1994, the two hunters were found alive and were airlifted from the site the next morning. After the medical examination, Eric Nutarareak was released while David Irquittug of Hall Beach was medevaced to the Baffin Regional Hospital in Iqaluit with severe frostbitten feet. I'm informed that Mr. Irquittug is in good spirits although he may be required to receive further medical treatment for some time to come.

I would very much like to thank the residents of Igloolik and Hall Beach, the RCMP, and the emergency measures office of the Department of MACA in Iqaluit for coordinating their efforts which resulted in the successful conclusion of this search and rescue operation. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. We all know that when a person from our family and community dies it is a very difficult and confusing time. Unfortunately, there is a long-standing situation in my constituency that makes this time much worse. This situation I'm speaking of is the lack of morgues or designated facilities in northern communities. When a person dies, the body needs to be maintained at a special temperature to prevent the onset of decomposition.

Presently, there are no such facilities available in my constituency. I'm sure that this is the case in other communities as well. There are many times when the body has to be held while awaiting autopsy, planes and relatives to attend funerals. In this case, there are no temporary resting places set up in the communities and they are forced to use the community freezer or bury them right away.

Madam Speaker, this situation is not acceptable to my constituents. It is time that the Government of the Northwest Territories provide funding to set up the required facilities in our communities to make this difficult time for people less traumatic and restore some dignity to those who have died. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, out of respect for my constituents, the majority of whom are Inuit, I'm going to attempt to make my Member's statement at least partly in Inuktitut. I know Members will bear with me.

(Translation) Madam Speaker, a teacher at Nakasuk School was convicted of assault in the classroom. (Translation ends)

Students had to testify in court and it was very hard on them. Later, the teacher who was convicted appealed to a higher court. The supreme court said that the first judge had made a technical mistake but a new trial will not be held. It was decided that the children should not be asked to testify again.

(Translation) When he was convicted by the first judge, the teacher was asked to apologize to the students. He has never done this. What is this teacher doing now? The Iqaluit Education Council does not want him working in our schools so he is now being paid for a pretend job at the resource centre in Iqaluit. (Translation ends)

The teacher is now being paid to do a make-work job at the resource centre in Iqaluit. The teacher's union is supporting this teacher. This is not the first time that a teacher who has gotten into trouble with students has been paid to do nothing. Madam Speaker, the discipline provisions of the Public Service Act, the Education Act and the Northwest Territories Teacher's Association Act are clearly not working well. I know that teachers have rights, but so do students and parents. This situation must be addressed in reforms of the Education Act. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Over the past few weeks, mining has been a hot topic of conversation in this House, in our region and in the Kitikmeot region. The recent trip to an international mining conference in Toronto, followed by meetings in Ottawa, led by Mr. Todd, the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, and attended by Mr. Dent, Mr. Zoe and Mr. Ng, demonstrated to all of us the tremendous and unusual opportunities which may open up to us in the next few months. They are opportunities that, at this point in time, very few people in the world have.

It also showed us the tremendous challenges that we face if we are to benefit from this activity. De Beers, BHP, Kennecott, and Metall are huge international companies with tremendous power and influence around the world. Each one of them dwarfs our government in power, employees and influence a hundredfold. The diamond industry, itself, is little known in the Northwest Territories; in fact, it is little known in Canada. So, we have a very steep learning curve to climb very quickly if we're going to have any impact on the results of mining activity.

I urge Minister Todd to take every opportunity here, in South Africa, Australia or wherever to bring us up to speed very rapidly. Otherwise, we will remain -- and I'm not afraid to say this -- cute country bumpkins in a potentially immense mining play.

We have to ensure that the environmental implications are fully understood and that we can overcome them. We have to ensure that aboriginal rights are protected and that aboriginal groups in affected areas are fully involved in decision-making. We have to ensure that we can maximize the benefits of development and are able to provide training, employment and business opportunities in a timely fashion.

It seems obvious to me that we must gain responsibility for mining and for oil and gas as soon as possible. We can almost guarantee that very soon that opportunity will be lost forever. The federal treasury will inevitably suck our resources dry in order to feed the insatiable appetite of southern Canada. And 60,000 people won't really make one little bit of difference. We must act decisively. We must act now.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. (Translation) Last week in Fort Simpson, we had a feast. The reason we had this feast was for a farewell party for a head nurse who has worked there for 17 years. June will be the last month she will be working there, so this is why we had this farewell dinner for her. This dinner was held at the school gym. We are very thankful to have had her work with us for these many years. She has helped the people a lot. She has delivered many babies around that area. We would like to thank her for having served in those communities for these many years. (Translation ends)

Maureen McEwan is retiring as a nurse in Simpson. She was with us in Simpson for 17 years. Prior to that, she was two years in Liard and one year in Cambridge Bay. This woman has shown the dedication and commitment that many people who work for the government in the communities show. She is a good example of a good worker who is committed. At the feast in Simpson on Sunday, she said she regarded her work as a challenge and she enjoyed it. I have worked with her many times as the former chief in the community. I know she was committed and dedicated. So I am standing today in the House to recognize her. Mahsi.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. A few weeks ago there was a carnival on the Hay River Reserve. When you say "K'amba" it means ptarmigan. This carnival is the time to celebrate spring, meet old friends and make new friends. It has been a community event for the past five years. It hosts a number of events for both children and adults such as snowshoe races, tea boiling, sober dances, pancake breakfasts and casinos.

Every year, one of the biggest attractions are the dog races. Mushers from all across Canada come to race and this year was no different from the others. Another big attraction was the adult talent show. The talent show provided four hours of non-stop entertainment in three different categories: singing; fiddling; and, jigging. The show has become increasingly popular. In fact, last year the organizers had to turn people away. There wasn't enough room to seat everyone who wanted to attend. In an attempt to avoid the same problem this year, the talent show was held at the Diamond Jenness Secondary School in Hay River. It was a huge success. Approximately, 650 people attended.

I am very pleased that the carnival was such a success. However, it could have been even more successful if there had been a large enough facility on the reserve to hold such events such as the adult talent show. The reserve has to continue to rely on facilities...

Mr. Gargan, your time has lapsed for Members' statements. Mr. Gargan.

Madam Speaker, I request unanimous consent to continue my statement.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Gargan.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker and honourable Members. (Translation) As it continues to grow in population, this is going to become even more of a problem. I think it is time the reserve receives a new and larger community hall. A new hall will provide a place for people to come out and celebrate any events with friends and family without the possibility of being turned away because there isn't enough room. It would also allow residents to attend community events without the need to travel to another facility.

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, I would like to stress this very real concern. I would like to ask Mr. Arngna'naaq to take my concerns into consideration. We really require a community hall on the Hay River Reserve. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The fur lobby, Madam Speaker, is not a major issue for my constituency, but I have observed the battle for over 25 years and I have some suggestions to make. Madam Speaker, Pierre Daninos was a French writer who, during the 1950s, wrote some satirical books about the English. He invented a character called Major Thompson and used him as a target for all things he found really strange about English people. One thing Daninos found strange was that in Major Thompson's country, animals have a far higher status than people. To illustrate his thought he noted that there was a royal society for the prevention of cruelty to animals, but there was only a national society for the prevention of cruelty to children. In other words, there was royal protection for cats and dogs, but not for kids. I urge this government to use a similar critical approach when it next meets the animal rights activists in Europe.

We have learned that the Dutch, for example, kill 750,000 muskrats a year because they poke holes in their dykes. They throw the carcasses over the dykes into the sea. It could be pointed out that what the Dutch consider a pest and nuisance to be destroyed and discarded is a valuable source of meat and clothing for people in the western Arctic. Mr. Kakfwi told me this anecdote and I believe he has used it to good advantage in the past. I am sure we could find many other examples of destroying animals which is a source of embarrassment to Europeans.

The fur lobby has an almost impossible fight on its hands, in my opinion, against the activists in Europe. Attempts to engender sympathy for the aboriginal way of life have not, in my opinion, been very successful. In fact, many people would argue we would be better off spending our money trying to develop markets somewhere else where that battle doesn't have to be fought. What needs to be attacked is the hypocrisy of many European states that are quick to criticize others, but are blind to their own shortcomings. I urge the Premier to recognize that most of these battles against animal rights activists have, in fact, been lost and all you can do is extend the battle another year or two. If she wants to help extend the war for another year or so, she needs to be tougher and smarter than the vast body of activists lined up against her. I urge this government to take, within this next expedition, aboriginal people who will risk the unpleasantness -- and I mean that, unpleasantness -- with a strong stand. The success of the mission will then be judged by what a miserable time everyone had when they went.

Mr. Lewis, your time has lapsed. I cut you off prior to you stating your last paragraph. Mr. Lewis.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my last sentence.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Madam Speaker, and colleagues. What would help the Premier is a motion passed in this Assembly to provide authority and impetus to the proposed visit to the European states on behalf of the fur lobby.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a return to a question asked by Mr. Ningark on February 22 regarding dissatisfaction with Taloyoak Housing Association employee.

On February 22, 1994, the honourable Member for Natilikmiot asked a question regarding Housing Corporation staff using local services such as taxis and hotels in Taloyoak.

Madam Speaker, the honourable Member indicated that I should look into this matter with the hamlet council. I have investigated this matter with the Taloyoak hamlet council and they have indicated that their concerns are the same as Mr. Ningark's. They wish to ensure that GNWT staff and contractors support the local business community.

Madam Speaker, to ensure there is no doubt about where I stand on this issue, I have directed the president of the Housing Corporation to ensure that all corporation employees are aware that if there is transportation available in a community, they are to use that local transportation. If there is a hotel in a community, they are supposed to stay in that hotel. Similar conditions are included under the business incentive policy to ensure contractors use local businesses and our contracts include a penalty to contractors who do not meet these requirements.

Madam Speaker, these measures are in place to encourage local businesses and I will continue to do whatever I can to support them. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. Madam Speaker, during our last break before Christmas there were discussions and meetings with MACA officials with regard to the new fire hall that is supposed to be built this year. As recently as two weeks ago, I phoned the hamlet with regard to whether they have resolved the whole issue of who should build the fire hall. I want to ask the Minister whether he has any new information regarding that project for this summer.

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The most recent information I have, and the Member probably has more recent information, is that the hamlet council was going to meet with the Dene band in Fort Providence. Since then I have not received any more information about whether the fire hall would be built this coming summer. I was under the impression that the Dene band in Fort Providence would be able to meet with the hamlet council and come up with an agreement whereby the fire hall could be built this coming summer. That is the extent of my knowledge at this time. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Finance. I received a couple of calls, Madam Speaker, from contractors who have done work for government and they have been told that all payments have been frozen. This is work that has been done, some of it as far back as two months. These are small businesses that need the funding to help with their cash flow and this is causing them a lot of inconvenience. I would like to ask the Minister, why have all

the payments to contractors that work for government been frozen. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Madam Speaker, we are a little short of money right now. We have been borrowing money for the last three or four weeks. We are at $57 million borrowed as of late yesterday afternoon. Our authority from this House is for $65 million. Last week, I instructed the departments to only pay those bills that we have to pay. We're abiding by all our rules and regulations, it's just that we're not paying in advance of the time that we have to pay those bills. So we're not doing anything intentionally to people, but we are watching our pennies right now because I cannot overspend simply because I cannot over-borrow. Today, Madam Speaker, I will introduce legislation to raise that borrowing limit if the House will give me permission. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.,

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister another question. When would we expect to have payments start again for these contracts that work for the government? Thank you.

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Madam Speaker, I haven't stopped the payments but if it's 20 days then I'm paying on day 20. In smaller communities where there's a greater distance, then we'll pay a couple of days in advance because we recognize that it takes that time for the cheque to get to those smaller communities. We're just not issuing cheques before the deadline that we have to produce them. If there are some hardship cases that Mr. Antoine has in his constituency, then I'll gladly talk to him after the House and see if there's something I can do to help those people out, Madam Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Finance. Madam Speaker, the Standing Committee on Finance in its reports to this Assembly, made recommendations on the formula funding agreement and strongly endorsed, as it has in previous reports, the concept of the Government of the Northwest Territories preparing a comprehensive package of fiscal concerns for negotiation of these issues effectively with the federal government. I'd like to

ask the Minister of Finance, without asking him the contents of the package or the strategy, whether the government has put this package together at this time. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Madam Speaker, yes, we put the package together. The topic was discussed by myself with Mr. Martin. Mr. Martin responded last week by saying that he was not interested in dealing on a package arrangement, that Mr. Morin should deal with Mr. Dingwall, Mr. Todd should deal with whomever he has to deal with, et cetera. On Thursday of last week, this issue came up again with Mr. Todd and myself meeting with Mr. Irwin in Ottawa. Our two MPs, Ethel Blondin-Andrew and Jack Anawak, were present. We agreed at that table to try to get this arrangement resurrected. Ms. Blondin-Andrew called me on Thursday evening of last week and again on Friday morning, and advised me that she has set up or has gotten Dingwall and Martin to agree to a meeting to talk about this topic again, sometime in the next 14 days. I'm in receipt of a letter that has rejected the issue, from Mr. Martin, but our MPs are pursuing it and we're hoping we can get it back on the table again, Madam Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance -- again respecting that it's not in the public interest to have negotiations of financial arrangements in public -- would he be willing to brief the Standing Committee on Finance on the elements of this package? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Madam Speaker, there is no secret about the topics. They are formula financing, the GDP cap within that particular financing arrangement, and the perversity factor that we're concerned about. The package also contains the health billings dispute that we are in court with the federal government on right now. And, as everyone knows, Mr. Ron Irwin agreed that we could try to work that out. The package contains the minerals accord and the northern accord that Mr. Todd is pursuing with great vigour. The package contains the grants in lieu of taxes to municipalities that has been a running battle with the federal government for the past three years and the package contains the housing issue that Mr. Morin has been pursuing. We have suggested that if all those things could be on the table at the same time, we may look forward to an arrangement whereby the federal government would clear a lot of our decks of problems we have and we could look to the future with some certainty. Even to the point of discussing a formula funding agreement with them that would split, as the territories do, with incremental funding so that each territory could go its own way in 1999. Those are the elements.

As far as dollar figures back and forth about what we require, we never ever got to that stage. It was the principle that was rejected by the federal Finance Minister. From my experience with other Ministers, and in talking to Mr. Todd from his experience last week, everybody points to Mr. Martin as the man you have to beat in order to get any other federal Minister to do something for you. I will be talking to him on the phone this week and we will be pursuing him at a meeting within the next two weeks, Madam Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, since the federal Minister of Finance seems to be taking a divide and conquer approach to the Government of the Northwest Territories' wish to have a comprehensive discussion of our fiscal needs, I would like to ask the Minister of Finance, notwithstanding his efforts with the MP for the western Arctic and others, has he asked the Premier to intervene with the Prime Minister to place the proper priority on this comprehensive approach? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Madam Speaker, I briefed the Premier from Calgary on Thursday and it was agreed between ourselves, Jack Anawak, and Ethel Blondin-Andrew that we wouldn't bring the Premier into the issue until such time as we had exhausted the next meeting with Mr. Martin. But, certainly, if we're not successful...and I'm not knocking the federal Finance Minister, he's doing his job, but he doesn't have enough time to understand the complexities, the problems we have here and the issue we want to place before him in a comprehensive fashion. We are hoping to plead our case again and have our two MPs present to support us. If we're not successful at that time, we'll come back and ask the Premier if she will intervene with the Prime Minister. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wasn't completely satisfied with the response to my second question, Madam Speaker, so I'm going to pursue it with the Minister. I will refer to the recommendation of the Standing Committee on Finance, on page 44 of our report, that there should be an integrated plan and political strategy and that it should be available to the Standing Committee on Finance for review in

February 1994. I would like to ask the Minister, Madam Speaker, about more than just the elements of the plan. We all know what the major fiscal issues are. Since these important discussions are going on now with the federal government, will the Minister of Finance brief the Standing Committee on Finance, on a confidential basis, on not only the plan but also the political strategy that this package approach represents? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Madam Speaker, I will certainly do it, I will. But, I don't have much more to tell the Standing Committee on Finance than I've told this House. Those are the issues. We know that Mr. Morin is short $43 million from the federal coffers. We know that the dispute on health billings is $79 million. We know that the municipalities are not getting their taxes paid by the federal government and we know those particular amounts. We know that it is the formula funding agreement that is mostly holding up the northern accord and the minerals accord. I'll certainly sit down with the Standing Committee on Finance and discuss the issue. But, have I got a piece of paper that says, Well, here Paul, you give us $20 million for this and we'll forget this over here and then cut us a little bit there and give us a grant over there. I don't have that written down on paper, Madam Speaker. But, I'll certainly agree to meet with the Standing Committee on Finance. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. Over the past couple of days there has been a lot of discussion about potential in mining and potential opportunities for northern employment in mining. My question to the Minister is, have his officials had an opportunity to sit down with the mining industry and explore ways we can assist in providing those opportunities to northerners?

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr., or Madam Speaker. Excuse me. I want to indicate to the honourable Member that our initial discussions centred around the matter of the Izok Lake development. It included Metall and the communities of the Kitikmeot. What we are now doing is expanding that discussion to include other developments with my honourable colleague, the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism and the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. That department has been the coordinating body for the development of an overall position on development. It will include the matter of responding to educational and training needs.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is still premature for anyone to be certain but if we are to be optimistic and the signs are optimistic right now, there is a good chance that construction could start on a mine within the next year. So, there's not a lot of time. The Minister knows full well the problem we've had in the past of getting our people geared up to take advantage of these opportunities. Can I ask the Minister if he will commit to sitting down with mining companies -- especially in the diamond area -- in the next couple of weeks, having discussions with them, and reporting back to this House the sort of arrangements he's able to make with them to get at this immediately? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes, we will certainly try to see if we can arrange for those meetings. I can indicate to the honourable Member that, really, my colleague, the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, is the key Minister in this issue. I can indicate also what was identified for the Izok Lake development. We are talking about total number of requirements, not only those who were part of the production of that project, but overall positions. We were able to identify the overall requirements. Those requirements may be applicable, also, in the diamond mining industry. It is just a matter of the training that is required and it could be that we have already been able to identify that. I believe we have already met with the Dogrib communities, as well, identifying positions. So, we have already done some of the work, and what we probably need to do is be more specific about the actual job requirements and training requirements specific to the diamond industry.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Finance, again, and it is with regard to his trip late last week to Ottawa to discuss financial matters with some of the federal Ministers, besides Mr. Martin, who said no to looking at dealing with the financial issues of the territorial government in a package deal. I would like to ask the Minister if he could advise this House of other meetings that took place in Ottawa and the results of those meetings. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Madam Speaker, I attended the meeting with Mr. Irwin, and then I met with Mr. Todd and the staff the following day to go over what the plan of action should be. I think Mr. Ballantyne was involved in that. Beyond that, I didn't have any more meetings with federal Ministers, Madam Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Renewable Resources, and it is again to do with mining. We all share the same concern that the environment is protected. The Minister knows there has been some confusion in a lot of people's minds about who has jurisdiction over various components of the environment here in the Northwest Territories. Could I ask the Minister if he is now satisfied in his mind that he is very confident as to the aspects of environment that his department is responsible for and aspects that the federal government is responsible for.

Thank you. Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think it is very important that we send out a clear message to industry and that we have a clear, fair approach here that will protect our interest but also gives them the opportunity to have some certainty that if they go through an approach, they can proceed. If they meet all the requirements, they can proceed with their development.

Have any of his officials sat down with the mining industry to, at least, have preliminary discussions about potential problems, with a view to looking at positive solutions early in the game, as opposed to waiting later on in the game and slowing the whole process down needlessly?

Thank you. Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Supplementary, Madam Speaker. My understanding is that the technology used in modern diamond mining is more benign than a lot of the technology used in other forms of mining. I think it is important that the Minister and his department become as familiar as they can with the actual technology that will be used. I wonder if I could ask the Minister for a commitment that the Minister will have his officials have a good look at the possibility of diamond mining, with a view to developing some positive relationships with the industry so that problems can be anticipated and solved in a timely manner?

Thank you. Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. My question is to Mr. Todd, and it is also about mining. I would like to ask Mr. Todd, since we have dozens of companies, in fact, engaged in mining activity in the Northwest Territories, mostly at the exploration stage, could he indicate whether these companies have a hire north policy or some policy, in fact, that would give preference to northern people?

Thank you. Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is my understanding, in discussion with the exploration companies and the mining companies, that there is no policy as we understand it from a GNWT perspective. However, there is a commitment, if you want, that as they move towards the development of this industry, there has to be significant benefits to the Northwest Territories. Otherwise, we would view the development somewhat unsympathetically. I suppose that would be the best way I could answer, at this time. But, the way I understand it, there is no specific hire north policy. We are trying to provide them with some encouragement in terms of relocating in the north. We did recently provide some financial support to the Colomac mine in an effort to hire Mr. Zoe's people in his area, so some efforts are being made. There is a great deal more that have got to be made, but some efforts are being made at the present time. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you very much. I will pursue this probably as a written question if I can't get the feel for it that I need. I would like to ask the same Minister if he is aware of any company who is committed to this, at present. Many of them talk about the future and what is going to happen in the future, but is he aware of any company at all right now that is committed, apart from the example he has given of Colomac, to hiring northern people?

Thank you. Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, Mr. Todd.

I am not trying to evade the question. I can't speak on behalf of the corporations but certainly, in discussions with them, they have indicated that an important part of their corporate strategy, if you want, in the development of this industry, is the recognition that there has to be significant benefits and job opportunities accrued to northerners. I have indicated as loud and as very clear as I can be that this is an important issue and if it wants the GNWT's support, it has to be negotiated to the development of these mines. Hence, the reason, to some extent, for trying to move expeditiously in trying to get some legislative control through the mining accord. So, I think that in the 1990s, there is a recognition by the major developers that they have to behave in a responsible manner. But from what I understand, there is no specific policy that says they will hire north first versus going south or something to that effect, if that is what the honourable Member is looking for. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I hate to put anybody to unnecessary work, but it seems to me that we have to have this kind of information. I would like to ask the Minister whether he will undertake to write to the mining companies that are heavily involved in northern exploration and to get from them, in writing, what their policies are with regard to hiring people.

Thank you. Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, Mr. Todd.

I want to assure the honourable colleague and the House that is the number one priority for me in the development of a mining accord and in terms of trying to get some legislative influence over these developments. I would be more than happy to write to these companies and ask them if they have a specific policy as it relates to northern hire. But, I think it is one thing for me to write and ask them. The other thing is for them to enact it if the mines go into place. If I may, I would suggest to you that what we really need here is some serious legislative clout to protect, not only the jobs, but the business opportunities that will arise should this development come forward. But, I will be only too happy to do what the honourable Member has asked. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, newspaper reports in Alberta last week suggested that the Premier of Alberta is starting to feel pressure to lower tobacco taxes. Mr. Klein was quoted as saying that what is now becoming a problem is cigarettes coming from Quebec, Ontario and other jurisdictions where taxes are lower and that pressure is starting to mount to lower taxes. I would like to ask Mr. Pollard, I think the Minister of Finance assured us that there was a wall of western solidarity that had been achieved through Ministers of Finance. I would like to ask the Minister are there cracks and fractures in the western wall of tax solidarity on the tobacco issue? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

It is being breached, Madam Speaker, by Canada Post, I think, for the most part. Madam Speaker, the Finance Departments of the Yukon, Northwest Territories, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and BC are still working together. We are still a solid group, we believe. The Premier of Alberta has been pressured -- I believe the right word is pressured -- by the Prime Minister and there is no question that it is difficult to stop entrepreneurs who are mailing

cartons of cigarettes across the country. Although, the federal government is looking at that issue.

In fact, as a little aside, Madam Speaker, last Thursday, catching a plane out of Ottawa, there was a fellow going through the security area and of course his bag buzzed. So, they opened it up and it was just full of cartons of cigarettes. Obviously, he was going to a different province and was going to report it and pay the taxes.

Madam Speaker, we are going to report to our Premiers, once the Finance Ministers have come up with a plan. At the present time, we're together at the Finance level and, of course, it will depend on what our Premiers say when we present the plan to them. I will keep the House posted. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Madam Speaker, having heard Mr. Pollard's assertion that everybody is still solid on not lowering tobacco taxes, I'd like to ask the Minister of Finance, are there any other jurisdictions in the country -- other than the Northwest Territories -- that are proposing to raise their taxes to fill the hole left by the federal tax reduction? Are there any other jurisdictions proposing this move? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Madam Speaker, Premier Ostashek from the Yukon, who is also the Finance Minister of the Yukon, initially said that he would like to move into the federal tax room. He hasn't said anything lately that I know of. But, I don't know of any other provincial jurisdictions that are considering it and that is what we are doing at the present time. I won't make a recommendation until we've seen the report that our respective colleagues across western Canada and the north have come up with. When that happens, when we see what the implications will be for us, I will make a recommendation to the House.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Madam Speaker, I'm not an advocate for lower cigarette prices, I want to clarify that. However, the Minister of Finance just stated that he is going to be considering this issue when he reviews the report of the western Ministers of Finance. I had understood that the Minister had earlier announced in this House that he was going to move with legislation to move into the federal taxing room, increase the limits on the smoking age, improve tobacco tax evasion measures and this sort of thing. Is the Minister now saying that he is merely considering this move and the final decision has not been taken by this government to move ahead with amendments to the Tobacco Tax Act? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Madam Speaker, there are a number of elements. I've been asked to lower taxes and I've said no to that. The second thing is, I've said I'd like to put the price of tobacco back to where it was prior to the Quebec and federal government arrangement. I'm firm on that, going back to where the price was. I said that I would like to talk about, think about and look at the implications of moving into the federal tax room. The reason I'm not prepared to commit to that right now is because I would like to see what the effect might be upon us. I would like to see what the other provinces are going to say about that. Mostly, I want to see what Mr. Martin says about it because he may be a little annoyed if I move into his tax room. I am committed to putting the price of cigarettes back to their old price and I'll commit to that, but I don't think I've ever said categorically that I'm going to move into the federal tax room.

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Since the Minister has indicated that he will be taking certain measures, including increasing the legal age for purchase in the Northwest Territories -- which I, personally, would support -- can I ask the Minister, at what stage is the draughtsmanship of the new legislation or amendments at this point in time? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Madam Speaker, it is on my desk at the present time. There's one hitch that has been holding it up and that is the raising of the age to 19 years of age. It is a question of whether it should be in this act or another act. I'm trying to find out today if we can, in fact, if we can do it in the Tobacco Tax Act and then the issue can come through the House and on to committee. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.