Agreed.

---Agreed Consumer And Corporate Affairs

Thank you. Consumer and corporate affairs, total O and M, $763,000. Mr. Arvaluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask a question while we're on this page. Perhaps I can talk a little bit more about this. They attempt to charge any rate they want in the smaller communities, particularly the stores in the communities. I know that in the bigger communities, such as Pond Inlet and Igloolik, they have better options. They have very strong co-op operations. The co-op and the Northern Store attempt to compete for the lowest prices for their products. Communities like that have that option but in smaller communities such as Lake Harbour or wherever there is no extra store, the prices tend to be extremely high. The Northern Stores tend to say that because of the freight costs the food and merchandise are so high. I will use coffee, for an example. One pound of coffee would be around $3.59 in a larger community. In Coral Harbour, it is $4.48 for a pound of coffee. How can a coffee that is one pound be $2 extra just for the freight costs? I wanted to ask the Minister what they can do within consumer and corporate affairs to deal with the high costs in the smaller communities. I was wondering if they would have any kind of protection for such high costs in the smaller communities. Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Thank you. Maybe I could ask the deputy minister to respond specifically to that particular matter in terms of process.

Deputy minister, go ahead.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The problem of determining whether the price charged to a product is an appropriate price is a very difficult one to determine. We do have, in the Northwest Territories, the Consumer Protection Act, but it basically protects the consumers against vendors, direct sellers and collection agents. When you are talking about whether the product being sold is at the right price, that is, there is a concern about it being too high, for example, the most we can do is to help the consumer by taking his complaint and then taking it to the federal Department of Consumer Affairs who have the legislative mandate to look into any price fixing scheme, if that, by chance, is going on. So the most that we can do is help that individual by directing or taking their complaint directly to Canada on their behalf. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Mr. Arvaluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the quick response. What the stores did, namely the Northern Store, when we made complaints about costs - I will use coffee for an example again; perhaps I should be using flour, cereal, milk and what not, but I know coffee is $4.48. I think most of us have worked in the Hudson's Bay/Northern Stores as first-time employment, but we used to have to do inventories. We used to put prices on them and we used to have to increase costs for overheads and what not, for freight. However, if I am to make a complaint, for instance - I am using Coral Harbour as an example for a community - and if the Northern Store hears about the complaint, then they automatically lower their merchandise costs, and as soon as the people accept the lower costs, then they tend to raise prices in other items and merchandise. That is the way the Northern Stores work.

However, I will use Pond Inlet as well. There is a long distance between Montreal and Pond Inlet, and the freight costs are very expensive. I will use Lake Harbour as an example, as well. Lake Harbour is very close to Montreal compared to Pond Inlet but the costs are much higher than what they are in Pond Inlet. There are a lot of different stores that charge people for the food, and I am just wondering if the consumer affairs section could be strengthened and be able to go to the communities and see what kind of price index they use in the Northern Stores in the communities.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We can certainly look into the matter. The only comment I would make in addition to what I said is that the department did some work in this particular area on the same basis that the Member is raising and the experience was not a very good one. However, we will consider the comments that have been made by the honourable Member and try to respond as favourably as possible.

Thank you. Mr. Arvaluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am going to talk about other companies besides Northern Stores. We have an airline in the Keewatin called Calm Air. It was Nunasi that started an air service. They started out cheap but within two weeks they raised their prices. Would Consumer and Corporate Affairs be able to control the airfares also? For instance, if you buy something and you send it out by freight from Yellowknife to Rankin Inlet, we know the distance from Rankin Inlet to Yellowknife and we know the distance from Rankin Inlet to Coral Harbour, but the prices are the same, even though Coral Harbour and Rankin Inlet are closer than Yellowknife and Rankin Inlet. I wonder if Consumer and Corporate Affairs would be able to control the freight rates that airlines charge? Whenever there is an airline monopoly running, they seem to up their prices whenever they want. Would Consumer and Corporate Affairs be able to control the freight rates?

Thank you. There are two problems in the concern that the honourable Member has raised and I am not suggesting in any way that we may not be able to try to help the community deal with the issue. One is the whole matter of air transportation regulation is really under the jurisdiction of the federal government. The other point is that because the federal government has deregulated the airline industry, the basis by which these rates are charged right now is really based on what you might say is the free market situation. In other words, you submit your proposals for rates and the Canadian Transport Commission approves those particular rates. So, it is kind of an awkward situation. I think if they are changing their rates without the kinds of approval, then they may be violating their own conditions of operating, but until we really find and investigate those situations, we wouldn't know that. I would advise you that is generally how that industry is regulated at this particular time.

Thank you. Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am very much concerned about this because deregulation and abiding by this trade market system that the federal government has introduced for the competitive airlines in southern Canada does not work in the monopolized airlines, especially in the Keewatin. I'm just making comment now, Mr. Chairman. The same goes for the Northern Stores which operate in the small communities, that when they have a monopoly or the co-op is

not doing very well, they have cornered the market and price the goods anyway they choose.

I really feel that because I represent the majority of the consumers from my constituency, I find it a lot more important than the Insurance Act and Medical Professions Act regulating the insurance industry and Business Licensing Act. These are the things that are important to the operation of good practices for the individual, but for a small minority. For the majority, the concern should be that the consumers have been getting gypped or whatever. They are not being given a fair shake in living conditions, especially in the eastern Arctic where there are no highways. Qujannamiik.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. Mr. Minister, do you wish to respond?

No, Mr. Chairman, I believe the honourable Member is making a comment and we'll pay heed to the comments he's made.

Okay, page 08-9, consumer and corporate affairs, total O and M, $763,000.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Safety

Thank you. Safety, total O and M, $2.316 million. Mr. Dent.

Thank you. It seems that we are running out of time. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you. I can't introduce any motions but, Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to say that one of the discussions that we had after I became a Minister was to develop a number of proposals that we could submit to the Cabinet. One on the matter of safety inspections and another on mine safety inspectors. Those were the two issues that we were trying to ensure that we dealt with at the earliest opportunity.

Thank you. We've run out of time here. I shall rise and report progress. I recognize the clock. Thank you, Mr. Minister. Thank you, witnesses.

I will call the House back to order. Item 19, report of committee of the whole. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.