Mr. Chairman, my constituent company complains that, with this kind of competition and competitive

advantage from the Development Corporation-funded enterprise, it is getting difficult, if not impossible, to make a living and to get access to the product, even though I am told fishermen in the community would sell to whomever would buy, if they felt they had some freedom. Would the Minister be willing to use his good offices with the Development Corporation, to try to solve this problem?

I must say that I am quite satisfied that efforts have been made to solve the problem directly with Pangnirtung Fisheries Ltd and through working with the regional department in Baffin and also through working with the Development Corporation president for many months now. There is a whole series of letters. I have a copy of a letter that was written to the Premier about this matter to indicate the level of frustration of my constituents.

In the interest of competition and the free market, would the Minister use his good offices to try to find a way to solve this problem? I don't know what the solution is. In the scheme of things, it is a minor issue, but it is affecting the viability of my constituent's company. Would the Minister be willing to try to help solve this problem? Thank you.

Yes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is a very satisfactory answer. Mr. Chairman, another question I would like to ask has to do with the future of the broader policy issue surrounding this fishery. As I understand it, this fishery is under a Department of Fisheries and Oceans exploratory licence only. As I understand it, DFO has not been able, to date, to determine a quota, which would allow sustainable harvest without affecting fish stocks in the future. Since this quota has apparently not been allocated by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, on what basis was the decision made to proceed with a several million dollar, high technology and high volume fish plant without knowing for sure that there is an identifiable, licensed stock available for ongoing production requirements of this high volume plant?

I think in the early stages in 1990 or 1991, this fishery was defined as an exploratory fishery. Again, I stand to be corrected, but I believe it is now defined as a fishery and the quota is actually allocated by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. This is just to put it all in perspective here for my honourable colleague, we have gone from 30 jobs in 1990 and 1991 to now 151 in seasonal, part-time and permanent jobs. We are proceeding with a fish plant that meets the employment needs of the fishermen. I don't know whether that answers the question, but that is my answer.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that information. I think that it would be useful if the department could reveal the details of the DFO fishing licence because there is certainly an impression that it is only an exploratory licence. I would be interested in getting that information.

Another question has to do with fair competition. There is an EDA subcommittee on fisheries in the Baffin. I understand that Pangnirtung Fisheries, the Development Corporation funded community corporation, has a representative on that EDA subcommittee. This has helped them get generous support from the EDA as well as from the Development Corporation. I would like to ask the Minister's opinion. Since there is at least one other enterprise that is trying to compete in this field, is it fair that the government should appoint a representative of one company on the granting board, the subcommittee, and yet not another competing private corporation to be represented on that same board?

Yes, I believe it is fair.

If I am correct that the weight of the government funding is being used to compete quite aggressively against the small corporation, how is the small private corporation, which doesn't have representation on the EDA fishery subcommittee, supposed to get access to some of these programs and funds on a fair basis, without representation on the subcommittee and with representatives from the Pangnirtung fishery who may not be entirely sympathetic to their request for assistance?

Let me assure the Member that as long as I'm the Minister of Economic Development, the ownership of the eastern Arctic fisheries will not be on the EDA subcommittee. Let's get this record straight. First of all, there are two ownerships that Mr. Patterson is talking about. One is Mr. McCormick who lives in Pangnirtung who has not insulted the Department of Economic Development and the superintendent, but has actually threatened them.

Secondly, the other partner is Mr. Mahoney from Air Baffin, whose primary source of income is in the charter business. I'm talking about the livelihood here of 121 Inuit families in Pangnirtung. That's where I'm placing the emphasis at this time. Mr. Mahoney and Mr. McCormick can apply for any other grants, any other lending, like anybody else in the Northwest Territories. As far as I'm concerned, the majority of people who are active in the fishery have a greater interest than the minority. Mr. McCormick will not be on any committee of my department that I run at this time. If that's unacceptable to the Member, then we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Mr. Chairman, I've tried to make it very clear to the Minister in my private discussions on this matter and also in my statements in the Legislature that if we degenerate -- if I may use that term -- to creating issues out of personality conflicts and use that as a smoke screen to avoid the fundamental policy issues, then I'm being lured into a trap that I don't want to participate in. I'm aware there are players, passions and politics in the fishery. What I want to understand, Mr. Chairman, is does the Minister support competition and small business growth in the Baffin fishery?

This Minister has supported small business all his life and will continue to support small business, we've demonstrated that, we'll continue to demonstrate it. What I'm saying is, there is a large group of people who are active in the fishery and who I have a responsibility for. The NWT Development Corporation's policy was developed while the honourable Member was in the Cabinet. I inherited it. It is not our intent to drive Mr. Mahoney out of the fishery. But, Mr. Mahoney has never talked to me. He chose to write to the Premier, that's his choice. I've had no discussions with Mr. Mahoney. None.

Our job is to ensure that jobs are created through the fishery. That's the principle of the Development Corporation. That's what I've been told, that's what I've read, that's what is in the policy. That's what we're doing. If it is to the detriment of Mr. Mahoney, then he should work that out at a local level.

Mr. Chairman, my constituent -- who I have never named, by the way, nor do I think it necessary to do so -- has made massive efforts to resolve this problem at the local level. He has also made a great number of efforts to get the Development Corporation to lend its good offices through its president, to solving this problem. I've got a pile of correspondence, newspaper articles and petitions that show

the amount of effort that has gone into resolving this problem. And it has got nowhere.

The Development Corporation says go to the Pangnirtung Fisheries board. The Pangnirtung Fisheries board defers the meeting, delays the meeting, turns down the request, or makes personal attacks on the proponents. I think this is a matter of policy and I think it is something that the Minister should be dealing with. If he is willing to meet with my constituent and discuss it, I know my constituent would be delighted.

My earlier question was, will the Minister try to deal with this problem with the fish boxes. I got a positive answer, but I'm finding an attitude of defensiveness on the part of the Minister, Mr. Chairman. All I'm asking for is fairness for a small business in my constituency. I believe there is room for competition in the fishery and so does the chairman of Pangnirtung Fisheries board, Johnny Mike. He told me that himself. But, if the policies of the Development Corporation appear to be working against a level playing field in Pangnirtung, then I think the Minister should be concerned. Thank you.

I give up. Of course, in some ways they are. It is a subsidized policy for the creation of jobs. It is clear. There's no myth out there. That's what it's all about. And if, by some stroke of luck, by genius, whatever, it can be viable -- and that's an objective we're all trying to achieve -- it will. But, it is clear in the policy that we will subsidize the capital, we will subsidize the jobs, we will try to reduce the subsidies by running the operations more efficiently, getting more stocks, doing this and doing that. There is no myth here. It is clear. In some ways, I suppose, there is no level playing field when it comes to this particular instance.