This is page numbers 93 - 113 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was nunavut.

Topics

Members Present

Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Hon. Samuel Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Ms. Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Hon. Kelvin Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Patterson, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Hon. John Todd, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 93

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Members of the Legislative Assembly, I am required to convey the following communication that I received on December 15, 1994 from Madam Speaker Marie-Jewell:

"I would like to inform you and, through you, all Members of the Legislative Assembly of my decision to tender my resignation as Speaker, effective at 5:00 pm today. I have already informed the Management and Services Board of my decision in a meeting held today over the lunch hour.

"As you are aware, an issue of significant importance has arisen affecting my constituency. This issue has placed me in a position where I have been compelled to challenge the fairness of a Cabinet decision and the integrity of a Cabinet Minister in order to fully represent the interests of my constituents and, I suggest, the interests of all citizens of the Northwest Territories.

"I have a great deal of respect for the role of the Speaker, in particular, the strongly-held convention that the Speaker must not only be neutral and impartial, but must be seen to be neutral and impartial. Hence, out of respect for the institution of the Speaker and as a result of my desire to fully represent my constituents, I hereby tender my resignation.

"I would like to say that it has been an honour and a privilege to serve as Speaker. I look forward to continuing to serve the House, even if in a different role." Signed, Jeannie Marie-Jewell, MLA, Speaker.

Accordingly, it is my duty to conduct an election for the Speaker. I would call for a motion to elect a Speaker. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Motion 6-12(7): Election Of Speaker, Carried
Item 1: Prayer

February 14th, 1995

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Inuvik, that Mr. Gargan, of the electoral district of Deh Cho, take the chair of this House as Speaker.

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Are there any further motions? Being no further motions, all those in favour of the motion, please indicate. All those opposed? The motion is carried unanimously.

---Carried

---Applause

I, therefore, declare that the honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan, has been elected Speaker of the House. I would request the mover and seconder of the motion to escort the Speaker to the chair.

---Applause

Speaker's Opening Comments

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Honourable Members, I beg to return my humble acknowledgements to the House for the great honour you have been pleased to confer on me by choosing me to be your Speaker.

If these words sound familiar, they have been said not only here in this House by my predecessors, but also for the last 100 years or so in Canada and for over 700 years in the British House of Commons and many other parliamentary democracies. Perhaps this is an appropriate way for every Speaker to begin because, in my experience, if you start to tinker and tamper with the traditional way of doing things, the lesson you learn is that no matter how you try to modify or improve tradition, it has certain integral values which perhaps you did not at first fully appreciate. I tried to put it into my own words, but it did not come out as well, no matter how I tried to change it. So, perhaps the lesson is that some traditions are more that just simple convention and have other, more important, values attached to them.

Traditions are important in any culture, and nowhere is this truer than in the Northwest Territories. I will do my best to uphold the many procedural and cultural traditions that have been established throughout the years and be respectful of the traditions that all Members bring with them when they are elected to serve the people of the Northwest Territories.

Sometimes the work we do here appears to be a battle for individuals' advantage, but all of us realize, I trust, that what is done here is extremely important work on behalf of all the people of the Northwest Territories; not only for the individual rights but, in addition, as an example to all that change must be brought about through the process of law and order in a proper, democratic way. Thus, every meeting we hold here should be an example to our people.

With the honour you have bestowed upon me by electing me as your Speaker, of course, goes an obligation to do the job to the best of my ability. It goes without saying that I will give it my best effort at all times. I would like to assure all Members that I place the fulfilment of this obligation ahead of every other consideration. Whether it be a question of individual or collective politics, personal considerations, friendships or otherwise, this obligation at all times comes first, and I will fulfil this role the best I can. I will not always make everybody happy, however, if I can carry out this role to the best of my ability without losing the respect and the goodwill that you have extended to me at the start, I will feel that I have done a good job.

On a personal note, since this may be the last time I will get a chance to make a personal comment, I would like to thank my wife, Alphonsine, for her understanding and patience as, yet again, I take on a new challenge. I know that her support and that of my children, which I cannot do without, will make the months ahead bearable and pleasurable.

Once again, I respectfully thank you for the honour of being named your Speaker, and now I would suggest we get on with the business before us today. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Point of privilege, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Point Of Privilege

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Congratulations, Mr. Speaker. I wish you well in your new responsibility, but that's not my point of privilege.

Mr. Speaker, I want, today, to express a point of privilege as a Member of this House. Yesterday, when I arrived in Yellowknife at the airport, I was greeted by a sheriff who presented me with a statement of claim filed by Don Morin.

Mr Speaker, the effect of this matter is twofold. First, I feel, as an elected Member, the filing of a lawsuit against me results in my inability to discuss this matter, to express it in plain language. The bottom line is the effect may be to keep me quiet as a result of this sub judice convention.

Mr. Speaker, I fully recognize the rules of this House do not allow for Members to speak with regard to issues which are before the courts, particularly when you review rule 409 section 9 of Beauchesne's which states: "A question cannot deal with a matter that is before a court."

Further, Mr. Speaker, in Beauchesne's, the sub judice convention section 505 states, and I quote: "Members are expected to refrain from discussing matters that are before the courts or tribunals which are courts of record. The purpose of this sub judice convention is to protect the parties in a case awaiting or undergoing trial and persons who stand to be affected by the outcome of a judicial inquiry. It is a voluntary restraint imposed by the House upon itself in the interest of justice and fair play."

However, section 506, the first part, states: "The sub judice convention has been applied consistently in criminal cases." The second part states: "The precedents in criminal cases are consistent in preventing reference to court cases before a judgment is rendered; however, the convention ceases to apply

after the judgment is given...Nevertheless, the convention is applied again when an appeal is launched."

More importantly, Mr. Speaker, section 507(1) states: "No settled practice has been developed in relation to civil cases, as the convention has been applied in some cases but not in others." The second part of section 507 indicates, and I quote, "In civil cases the convention does not apply until the matter has reached the trial stage."

Mr. Speaker, according to section 507(2), my case is a civil case and has not, as of yet, reached the trial stage as my notice of claim has only been served on February 14, 1995.

Mr. Speaker, further, the sub judice convention in Beauchesne's section 510 states, and I quote: "The Speaker has pointed out 'that the House has never allowed the sub judice convention to stand in the way of its consideration of a matter vital to the public interest or to the effective operation of the House.'"

The second part of my point of privilege, section 511 states: "The freedom of speech accorded to Members of Parliament is a fundamental right without which they would be hampered in the performance of their duties. The Speaker should interfere with that freedom of speech only in exceptional cases where it is clear that to do otherwise could be harmful to specific individuals."

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt each elected Member of this Assembly, and any other elected Members of any Assembly of the land, enjoy a fundamental privilege of freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is a cornerstone to our democratic process which we all enjoy as Canadians.

Mr. Speaker, having said that, more importantly my fundamental freedom of speech as an MLA has been threatened and it has been hindered. My point of privilege as an elected Member, I feel, is my fundamental freedom of speech to speak out on behalf of the interests of my constituents which has been impeded upon as a result of the lawsuit filed by Mr. Morin. The possible effect of this lawsuit is that I could be constrained from speaking vigorously as I have in the past on behalf of my constituents of Thebacha on other issues lest I again be faced with another lawsuit.

Mr. Speaker, I respectfully request you rule on my point of privilege. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. I have been advised I have two options here to either have a debate on it; or else take your point of privilege under advisement. You do have a number of sections in your point of privilege that would have to be looked at, and I will take that under advisement. Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Madam Premier.

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise the Members that the Honourable Silas Arngna'naaq will be absent from the House today and tomorrow to attend a Keewatin education conference in Arviat. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Madam Premier. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Pollard.

Minister's Statement 13-12(7): Budget Address
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 95

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon and congratulations. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Monday, February 20, 1995, I will deliver the budget address. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 13-12(7): Budget Address
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 95

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements.

Mr. Lewis.

Parliamentary Democracy
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let me be the first, under Members' statements, to congratulate you on your election by your colleagues -- which is very important -- to the very significant job of Speaker of our Legislative Assembly.

You still have to convince many northerners, Mr. Speaker, that parliamentary democracy, which is what we practice here, is one of the great inventions of mankind. It provides a place where people's voices can be heard in very many different ways. If you just look at our order paper, you can see how many ways in which voices can be heard. It seems to me strange that so many northerners have failed to see what an incredible invention parliamentary democracy really was, when we look at its long history and how it has developed. You've been a Member of this Legislative Assembly for 11 years, Mr. Speaker, and I believe you fully understand and appreciate what an incredible invention it really is. Because, without straying too far from the basic principles of democracy, it remains a very flexible system which can be accommodated to any circumstance in any country in any part of the world.

If you look at the members of those groups that practice parliamentary democracy, you realize how many countries really are in the group of countries which appreciate this wonderful invention. We seem to take in so many inventions, yet fight so much about this one. I know you will uphold all the good traditions of the parliamentary system, Mr. Speaker. I am sure we will continue to add several wrinkles of our own as we accommodate it to our special needs.

There is still much work to be done to convince northerners that there is little wrong with the system, Mr. Speaker. In the long run, what will matter is the quality of our representatives and the use to which those representatives put this system to make it work. We put our trust in you, Mr. Speaker, and I know it is very well placed. You are known as a straightforward, just man and you will do everything you can to uphold those traditions and do everything you can for the advancement of all our peoples. Thank you.

---Applause

Parliamentary Democracy
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 95

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ng.

Election To Cabinet
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 95

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Firstly, I would like to formally congratulate you, as well, on your election as Speaker of this House. I'm sure you'll do an excellent job.

I would like to also thank my honourable colleague from Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark, for nominating me for the position of Cabinet Member and thank all other Members of this House who participated in the process of selecting the Cabinet Member. It is a very important process that we go through. I also want to thank the mayor of Cambridge Bay, Mr. Larry Aknavigak; and, of Coppermine, Mr. Donald Havioyak; members of the Kitikmeot Regional Council; Mr. James Eetoolook, the first vice-president of NTI; my constituents; and, last but not least, my family members who supported me morally in putting forward my name to stand for a Member of Cabinet.

I would also like to thank Mr. Lewis for putting forward his name as a candidate for Speaker, and Mr. Pudluk and Mr. Patterson for putting forward their names for Cabinet Members. It gave us, as I said previously, the freedom to choose. Finally, I would like to thank everybody for the trust that they have placed in me in electing me as a Cabinet Member. I commit to working hard in trying to represent the interests of all residents of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

---Applause

Election To Cabinet
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 95

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Koe.

Success Of The First Cdsc Conference
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 95

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I, too, wish to congratulate you in taking the Speaker's chair. Mr. Speaker, from January 18th to 22nd of this year, here in Yellowknife, a historic event in the development of northern government took place. That, of course, was the first constitutional conference for the western Northwest Territories, sponsored by the Constitutional Development Steering Committee.

This conference brought together 150 participants from the 34 communities in the western NWT to consider principles and options for a Constitution, and structure of government for the new western territory following division in 1999; and, to make recommendations on how the western constitutional process should continue. To say that the conference was a success understates the case. It is fair to say that, coming into the conference, there was scepticism in several quarters about the CDSC process, generally, and about the likely success of the conference, in particular. There were fears that it would not be possible to reach consensus, even on broad principles, between aboriginal and non-aboriginal people; and, among the aboriginal peoples in the western Arctic, on such fundamental issues as the need for a central government in the new western territory and the relationship between the development of public government and aboriginal self-government negotiations.

Against that backdrop, the first constitutional conference was, in fact, a resounding success. At the closing plenary session on Sunday morning, January 22nd, many speakers commented on the tremendous sense of goodwill and unity of purpose which they experienced throughout the conference and the willingness of the participants to listen, to share and to continue working together to build structures of government which truly reflect and accommodate all the peoples in our multi-faceted society in the west. The best hopes and expectations for the possible outcomes of the conference were exceeded.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue my statement.

Success Of The First Cdsc Conference
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 96

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Koe. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Koe.

Success Of The First Cdsc Conference
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 96

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, my colleagues. On the fundamental question of aboriginal self-government, the strong consensus is that this is not a matter to be negotiated or realized through the CDSC process but, rather, as a separate, parallel process which must proceed concurrently with the CDSC process for the development of public government structures. The conference delivered a strong message for the federal government: that progress is needed on aboriginal self-government negotiations so that these two processes can proceed together. This involves the recognition that there will be aboriginal self-governing institutions, and that these must be recognized and accommodated in a new constitution and structure of government for the west.

The conference, thus, also reached a consensus that four levels of government are necessary: community, aboriginal, regional and central. The community must be the basis for any new structure of government but there is a recognized need for a central government, which is community-driven. With consensus reached on these broad, fundamental principles, the conference also recognized that there is now much work to be done on details and options for a new western constitution and structure of government. In particular, research is needed on options and costs of community and regionally-based government structures within a central government and more public involvement is required regarding constitutional options, particularly at the community level. A second constitutional conference should be held within the year to discuss these options and details and to give direction for the drafting of a final proposal for ratification by public plebiscite.

The first constitutional conference thus endorsed the CDSC process and gave clear direction for the continuation of that process. As was stated at the closing of the conference, we took several major steps together toward a consensus on developing a new form of government that we all want, but we are not at the end. We are at the crest of a new horizon and can now see our goals and our destination a little more clearly. The challenge now for the CDSC and for the people of the western Northwest Territories is to build on the foundation laid at this first conference, and to maintain the momentum which was developed.

The Constitutional Development Steering Committee will meet this Friday to consider a workplan and budget for 1995-96 to implement the recommendations from the conference. We look forward to the continued support of this Assembly, the Government of the Northwest Territories and the Government of Canada as we continue this exciting and historic process in the spirit of unity and goodwill demonstrated by the people of the west through the first constitutional conference. Mahsi cho. Qujannamiik.

---Applause

Success Of The First Cdsc Conference
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 96

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford.

The Canadian Flag
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 96

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to join my colleagues in extending my congratulations to you on your election, and I look forward to an interesting and productive session under your tutelage.

Mr. Speaker, Members will notice a small flag lapel pin on their desks. Over the past few days, I've been reflecting on a piece of Canadian history that won my attention some 30 years ago. On February 15th -- that's today -- 1965, our current, distinctive flag replaced the old Union Jack which was unofficial and was borrowed from Britain. Since our flag was commissioned, its symbolic red maple leaf has represented this proud country here in Canada and most of the nations of the world. I, like a lot of Canadians, feel a real sense of pride when we see our flag, and the majority of the world's nations recognize and respect the value that it has come to represent.

Mr. Speaker, the coming into being of the flag was not an easy task, and it came in, like many very valuable things, under some pretty difficult conditions. The flag was recommended to the House of Commons by a special committee on the Canadian flag. This 15-Member committee held over 40 meetings; it heard many, many witnesses in camera and it examined some 2,000 new designs in addition to designs that had previously been submitted before the making of the final recommendations.

Mr. Speaker, at the time, I was sort of a budding artist and I had even submitted one. I never knew whatever happened to it, but it didn't look quite like this. It was a red, white and blue motif and it had a buffalo head on it, if I remember, and a star, but it never did go any further than that.

Mr. Speaker, Canadians had debated the merit of their own flag for more than 18 years under three different Prime Ministers with very strong opinions both for and against. The then-Prime Minister, Lester B. Pearson, insisted that the new flag should denote allegiance to Canada rather than have a colonial association, and that stirred a lot of bad feelings.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude.

The Canadian Flag
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 97

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Yellowknife South is requesting unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Continue, Mr. Whitford.

The Canadian Flag
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 97

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. There was a raging debate over the proposed flag design rather than the idea of adopting a flag. Some 250 speeches were given in the House of Commons on this topic, and after the suggestion of closure, a vote was taken on December 15, 1964 at 2:00 am in the morning to adopt the current design. It was accepted by a vote of 163 to 78 opposed, and it was proclaimed into force on February 15, 1965. That was 30 years ago today, Mr. Speaker.

So when you see the Canadian flag -- more than just flapping today because of the breeze -- on February 15th, I would ask you to take a minute to reflect on what our symbol means to you and maybe we can quietly wish it happy birthday.

---Applause

The Canadian Flag
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 97

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ballantyne.

Crime In Our Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 97

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to congratulate you, Mr. Speaker, on your election, and also to congratulate Mr. Ng on his election as Minister.

Today, Mr. Speaker, I want to talk about respect; about respect for people and about respect for property. That respect is being eroded in every community in the Northwest Territories. It was not long ago that we didn't have to lock our doors in Yellowknife, but that day is long gone. I don't think it's constructive to overstate the problem, and I really think that the problem still is manageable. But I think the time has come for all of us to take the problem very seriously.