Before proceeding to orders of the day, I would like to advise the House that I have received the following communication:

"Dear Mr. Speaker: I would like to inform you and through you, the Legislative Assembly, that I have decided to resign my seat as a Member of the Legislative Assembly for the electoral district of Aivilik effective immediately.

In making this decision, I considered it in the best interests of my constituents, who I thank from the bottom of my heart for giving me the opportunity of endeavouring to represent them. I also made this decision for the well-being of myself and my family, and I trust and pray that I will now be able to return to being a good husband and member of my community.

It has been an honour and a privilege to serve as a Member of the Legislative Assembly. Respectfully, James Arvaluk, MLA, Aivilik"

In accordance with section 8(2), I have forwarded the resignation statement and affidavit to Her Honour, the Commissioner.

I would like to provide my ruling on the point of privilege raised by the honourable Member for Thebacha, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, on Wednesday, February 15, 1995.

Speaker's Ruling

In reviewing the unedited Hansard, the Member for Thebacha raised two points that she felt were of sufficient importance as to be impeding her ability to serve her constituents. The two points raised by the Member are contained on pages 220, 221 and 222 of unedited Hansard. The first point raised, and I quote from page 221 of unedited Hansard:

"First, I feel, as an elected Member, the filing of a lawsuit against me results in my inability to discuss this matter, to express it in plain language. The bottom line is the effect may be to keep me quiet as a result of this sub judice convention."

The Member for Thebacha's second point is contained on page 222, and I quote:

"My point of privilege as an elected Member, I feel, is my fundamental freedom of speech to speak out on behalf of the interests of my constituents has been impeded upon as a result of the lawsuit filed by Mr. Morin. The possible effect of this lawsuit is that I could be constrained from speaking vigorously, as I have in the past, on behalf of my constituents of Thebacha on other issues lest I again be faced with another lawsuit."

The points and questions the honourable Member put to the chair would require me to rule on a hypothetical situation which, by tradition, the Speaker does not do. Also, if at this time I made comments on the question of the Public Commission of Inquiry or on any court proceedings, I would be, as indicated earlier, addressing a situation that is hypothetical as no proceedings have occurred in this chamber that could potentially infringe on any Members' rights.

I have carefully considered the two points of privilege and find that the Member for Thebacha, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, does not have a prima facie question of privilege as there has, as yet, been no limitation on her right to speak in the Legislative Assembly.

I would like to point out that the chair's responsibility is to maintain order and decorum in the chamber and to protect all Members' privileges including freedom of speech and enforcing rules and practices of the sub judice convention. I would also like to caution Members that freedom of speech does have limits, and I quote from Beauchesne's 6th edition, section 77:

"Freedom of speech does not mean that Members have an unlimited or unrestrained right to speak on every issue. The rules of the House impose limits on the participation of Members and it is the duty of the Speaker to restrain those who abuse the rules."

As I have indicated, there have been no proceedings within this chamber that would give rise to a point of privilege. Mahsi cho.

Item 2, budget address. Mr. Pollard.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, today on behalf of my Cabinet colleagues, I am presenting, for consideration of the House, the

government's fiscal strategy for the coming year and the budget that will be required to advance it.

I will begin by acknowledging the efforts of the Standing Committee on Finance, as well as other Members of this House, who took the time to provide us with their counsel.

Mr. Speaker, this budget tries also to take into account information derived from listening to Members as they expressed the concerns of their constituents by way of motion, question, petition or statement on the floor of this Legislative Assembly.

This is the fourth budget we have brought forward since forming the government in 1991. With each of these documents, we have sought to position the government to be able to provide good government within available financial resources.

Overall, this period has been extraordinarily demanding. We have encountered more than our fair share of challenges, yet, for all the adversity, we have tried to act responsibly and in the best interests of the people of the Northwest Territories.

Recent History

The fiscal challenges we face are all the more daunting in light of unilaterally imposed changes to the formula financing agreement by the federal government.

Mr. Speaker, over the 1990-91 to 1994-95 period, the grant from Canada was $540 million lower than it would have been without the federal changes. For this year alone, the amount of money we have foregone is estimated to be $150 million.

Despite these reductions, we have continued to meet public needs. Over the past three years we have redirected some $20 million to $30 million annually, which allowed us to meet demand in high priority areas. We were able to allocate more funds to support foster parents, seniors and victims of violence, to meet health costs, and for student assistance and educational facilities. This has been achieved without significant tax increases.

Indeed, while the operational budget for social programs has increased by over $50 million in the last three years simply to keep up with demand, the operational budget for government overhead has declined.

Mr. Speaker, early in the term of this government, steps were taken to place the territories on a sound fiscal footing for the long term. This process involved structural changes including, but not limited to, departmental reorganization and downsizing, and privatization of a number of government functions.

Many of these changes were recommended to us by the previous government through a report they commissioned called "Strength at Two Levels," sometimes, Mr. Speaker, referred to as the "Beatty Report."

That report, Mr. Speaker, served us well as a transition document. This government, in cooperation with all Members of the House, must ensure that a transition document exists for the next government. Not to impose our will upon them, Mr. Speaker, but to make sure that pertinent information has been compiled and is immediately available to them as they take office.

Mr. Speaker, in 1991, when we took office, trends in expenditure growth indicated that we would experience a $50 million deficit for 1992-93. Through an aggressive approach to cost-cutting, we were able to revise this projection to a $24 million deficit and by year-end, the accounts showed a small surplus.

For 1993-94, the government presented, as promised, a balanced budget. Unfortunately, the objective of a balanced budget was undermined by unexpected events. Three factors, Mr. Speaker, accounted for most of the $35 million deficit that was posted for fiscal 1993-94.

One such factor was the federal government eliminated its funding for the construction of social housing, almost overnight. To make up for some of the loss in federal funding, we had to inject $10 million in unplanned spending into the 1993-94 social housing program.

Added to this was a bad summer for forest fires that resulted in a requirement for an additional $9 million. Finally, a change in the accounting procedure for recognizing liabilities for employee benefits caused us to book an added $14 million that we did not anticipate.

The 1994-95 Budget

In 1994-95, we maintained fiscal discipline, Mr. Speaker. We held the line on spending, negotiated hard at the collective bargaining table and introduced tax increases necessary to achieve a balanced budget. Members of the Legislative Assembly, along with management, teachers and non-union staff, accepted a zero per cent salary increase. Total budgeted expenditure growth was held below the revised forecast for 1993-94.

Despite this, we anticipated being able to meet increased demands for social assistance, to further extend school grades and to respond to the need for more municipal and community services.

Again, outside influences forced us to miss our budgetary objectives. The 1994-95 deficit is now expected to be over $40 million, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, through the perseverance of Minister Morin, other Cabinet Members, Members of the Legislative Assembly and our federal Members of Parliament, we were successful in obtaining some federal funding for construction of social housing.

However, to address the chronic shortfall in social housing, our government was pressured to find an additional $17 million, or watch the Northwest Territories' vital social housing program be totally undermined.

In addition, another dry summer in 1994 contributed to a record number of forest fires. An unprecedented extra $20 million had to be added to the firefighting budget.

These two events alone account for almost all of the projected deficit for this fiscal year.

The Economy In Brief

Mr. Speaker, the economy performed well in 1994. Employment is expected to have grown by 4.3 per cent last year. This represents 1,000 additional jobs in the Northwest Territories. Many of these jobs can be attributed to the direct and spin-off effects of mineral exploration. This strong employment growth has fuelled retail sales that are estimated to have grown by over 16 per cent last year. These are clear signs of the high level of consumer confidence in our economy. Although overall economic growth was held back by a retrenchment in the expenditures of the three levels of government and weaker investment expenditures, final domestic demand nonetheless registered a growth of 1.4 per cent after adjustment for inflation.

Employment growth of two to three per cent can be expected to continue for the next three years, Mr. Speaker, and this rate of growth could be much higher if the current boom in mining exploration leads to the construction of new mines.

Investor confidence in the mineral potential of the Northwest Territories is now at an all-time high. In 1993, exploration expenditures more than doubled to $76.8 million from their 1992 level and they are expected to have grown last year to $87 million. As much as two-thirds of expenditures are related to diamonds. This bodes extremely well for an accelerated development of our mineral resources.

Mr. Speaker, for 1995, economic growth is forecast to be over 2.5 per cent and an additional 500 jobs should be created. And the good news is that the medium-term outlook is for continued sustained increases in economic growth and employment to at least 1997. The economic fundamentals are there and we must build on them to ensure the increase in our self-sufficiency.

Where We Are Today

Mr. Speaker, this government has gone through some difficult downsizing, streamlining of our operations and learning to do more with less. Along with other jurisdictions, we have been facing up to the new fiscal facts of life.

For all our efforts, however, we still face difficult issues -- not the least of which is the pending federal budget. We recognize the need for the federal government to address its fiscal problems. We also understand that achieving a better balance between federal expenditures and revenues requires belt-tightening by all Canadians.

The federal debt and growing deficits have very direct and damaging consequences for the north. The Northwest Territories, more than any other jurisdiction, depends on Ottawa for financial support. That is why part of our strategy is to reduce this dependency relationship.

The 1995-96 Budget

This year, Mr. Speaker, the federal government has indicated its intention to freeze the formula financing grant at last year's level. This means we will receive $8 million less than if the grant had been allowed to grow according to the formula. Total revenues in 1995-96 will be only $11.9 million higher than they were in last year's main estimates, despite the fact that we need to spend almost $40 million more to meet the growing demands for social programs.

Mr. Speaker, the next decade will see a large number of young people looking for jobs and housing. To ensure we have the financial resources necessary to meet their needs, we have embarked upon another process of consolidation and rationalization.

We are actively pursuing alternative approaches to existing income support programs and health care delivery mechanisms. The government is encouraging people-oriented investment in education and training, but the fact remains that the existing social and health conditions in the north are not going to improve overnight. We will have to deal with these serious and persistent problems.

Choices will have to be made, Mr. Speaker. With the existing socio-demographic and economic factors, it will be very difficult to pare back on social spending. Savings from improved program and administrative efficiencies will not be sufficient to meet the needs of many of our communities. Many northerners will still require additional assistance in the areas of housing, education, medical care, training and employments.

And, Mr. Speaker, we cannot ignore the expenditure demands that result from the social problems that we face such as alcohol and substance abuse, a high rate of suicide and family violence.

Mr. Speaker, public service expenditures account for one-third of the total budget. The government values its employees and acknowledges their dedication. However, whether through changes to wages and benefits or through reductions in the number of public servants, the wage bill must be brought down to protect those most at risk. Mr. Speaker, we are committed to treating our employees fairly and it is our intention to work cooperatively with the unions -- be it at the bargaining table or in joint consultation -- to determine the most effective means to reduce wage and benefit costs.

One thing is certain, Mr. Speaker, just as other government bureaucracies are reinventing themselves in light of new fiscal realities, so, too, must ours. The status quo is history. The money is simply not there to perpetuate it. Rather than seeing inevitable change as a threat, however, we should view it as an opportunity to reprioritize, reorganize and renew our commitment to good government.

Mr. Speaker, while our 1995-96 budget proposes operations and maintenance expenditure growth of only two per cent over the 1994-95 main estimates, the government is obliged to forecast a $14 million deficit for this fiscal year on its overall budget of $1.2 billion. The grant from Canada, frozen at last year's level of $876 million, will make up 72 per cent of forecast revenues. Other transfers from Canada are expected to increase by 10 per cent from 1994-95 and recoveries to fall by 14 per cent. Taxation and general revenues, which are expected to rise by four per cent in 1995-96, will make up the remainder of the government's revenues.

Mr. Speaker, with our grant from Canada frozen this year and with further reductions likely for the following year, we must offset this shortfall.

Revenue Initiatives

Many fees charged by the government have not increased for some time. Cabinet has approved a number of changes to these fees that will come into effect during 1995-96. These revenue initiatives are estimated to generate $10 million, once they are in place for a full fiscal year. Details on these initiatives will be provided by appropriate Ministers.

I will summarize some of the more significant changes:

- The structure of the mark-ups charged by the Liquor Commission will be revised;

- Liquor licensing fees and import fees will be increased;

- The Department of Economic Development and Tourism will raise some of its charges for services and start charging for other services;

- The Housing Corporation will adopt a new, more equitable, rent scale which ensures those who can afford to, will pay a more reasonable amount in rent;

- Business licence fees, professional registration fees and lottery licence fees administered by the Department of Safety and Public Services will rise to levels closer to those in other jurisdictions; and,

- Medical co-payment fees will increase.

Restraint Measures

Mr. Speaker, in order to maintain critical social programs in 1995-96, a thorough review of all existing operations has been undertaken. Its purpose is to ensure we can meet forecast expenditure growth in such key areas as education, social assistance, health and justice. Three committees have been established, each assigned a number of departments, which were grouped into three categories or, as we call them, "envelopes."

The three envelopes are social, resource management and government infrastructure programs. The "envelope" committees reviewed all existing programs and all new requirements, prioritized needs, proposed reallocations of funding and developed a coordinated plan of action for 1995-96. These proposals were then reviewed by the Financial Management Board in a series of meetings.

Mr. Speaker, decisions made at those meetings yielded reductions totalling $36.7 million. This represents a four per cent reduction over the 1994-95 main estimates. Associated with these reductions is the elimination of 86 person years. The majority of the person year reductions will be accomplished by attrition. However, some limited lay-offs will be required and a number of positions will go from full to part time. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment has also proposed a new approach in 1995-96 for the delivery of in-service training programs that will not affect the delivery of the programs, but will reduce the number of person years required by 98.

Mr. Speaker, $16.8 million of the reductions will come from the social envelope which represents three per cent of the total envelope budget: $6 million comes out of the resource management envelope, a reduction of approximately four per cent; while the government infrastructure envelope will contribute $13.9 million, or five per cent of the total envelope budget. The specific reduction measures undertaken by departments to achieve these savings will be explained during each department's budget review in committee of the whole.

In addition to these reductions, Mr. Speaker, there is a very real possibility that further cost cutting may be necessary over the coming fiscal year. We must await the outcome of the federal budget to know precisely where we stand.

New Spending

While restraint is, and must remain, our primary fiscal objective, the government also has a responsibility to ensure the needs of the most disadvantaged in our society continue to be met. This basic fact governed our decisions as to which existing programs to enhance, and what new initiatives to undertake. Mr. Speaker, this budget contains net expenditure growth of $20.2 million. A total of $16.5 million has been allocated to new initiatives and an additional $40.4 million to meet growing demand within existing programs. And, as I mentioned earlier, $36.7 million in expenditure reductions were identified through the envelope process.

Educational Initiatives

Consistent with our priority of ensuring northerners possess the skills they require to compete in the new economy, over $6 million has been added to help school boards across the north cope with the challenges of tomorrow. A $1 million increase in funding for Arctic College is also proposed, along with an additional $3.8 million for student financial assistance. On behalf of Minister Nerysoo, I am highlighting a number of initiatives that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment will be undertaking.

To ensure that all Northwest Territories students, including those with special needs, are educated in regular classrooms with their peers, an additional $930,000 will be provided for the inclusive schooling program. Mr. Speaker, this will raise the total amount allocated for the inclusive schooling to $10 million in 1995-96, up from $750,000 in 1985. As well, $550,000 will be allocated to assist school boards to improve literacy and numeracy teaching skills.

Six million will be provided for the investing in people program, which is cost-shared 50/50 with the federal government. The investing in people program is a two-year initiative that began in 1994-95 to provide specialized counselling, career and employment development, life skills, on-the-job training experience and education to social assistance recipients.

While fiscal vigilance remains a priority, we cannot afford to be indifferent to the needs of future generations. These expenditures on education are vital to the future of our youth and, therefore, to the future of the Northwest Territories.

Health And Social Initiatives

Mr. Speaker, this budget also acknowledges the need to invest in activities that improve health and social conditions of northerners, both for today and for tomorrow. To address the increasing social assistance case load, an additional $3.8 million have been allocated for social assistance payments. An additional $1.45 million has been allocated to address the increased utilization of health programs by all northern residents.

I am pleased to announce, on behalf of the Premier, the Minister of Health and Social Services, a number of new initiatives in the health and social services field: to provide home support services and nursing services for the aged, disabled and chronically ill, $1.4 million has been allocated to implement pilot projects for a coordinated home care program in the communities of Arviat, Rae, Pond Inlet and Tuktoyaktuk.

Community-based mental wellness pilot projects are under way in the Inuvik and Deh Cho regions. For 1995-96, $250,000 will be spent on pilot projects in select communities in Nunavut. An additional $200,000 will be made available to provide training programs in the prevention of suicide. One million has been included in the budget for a new Metis health benefit insurance program.

---Applause

Premier Cournoyea will provide further details of this program during the committee of the whole review of the 1995-96 budget for Health and Social Services.

Mr. Speaker, in response to growing pressures on the justice system, the Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi, has included an additional $3.4 million to address deficiencies in policing, courts and legal aid, along with $2.4 million for corrections.

In 1994-95, the Department of Justice undertook a detailed study of the corrections system and, as a result, it was delayed in finalizing its capital budget for 1995-96. The details of the budget are now being finalized and the government commits to presenting those details to the Legislative Assembly during this session.

Resource Management And Development

Mr. Speaker, the 1995-96 budget also acknowledges the importance of building on our economic strengths and preserving our assets. Mr. Todd, Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, has allocated $650,000 for two three-person economic development officer teams to serve smaller communities where no economic development officer is present. This alternative delivery mechanism will better address the service requirements of remote communities, both in the east and the west.

An extra $550,000 is also being allocated to the business development fund and small business grants program and an additional $495,000 to the Northwest Territories Development Corporation.

Mr. Speaker, to ensure maximum long-term net benefits are realized by territorial residents, $960,000 will go toward a coordinated approach to mineral development.

Mr. Arngna'naaq, Minister of Renewable Resources, has included $225,000 to provide renewable Resources officers in the communities of Aklavik, Arctic Bay, Fort Providence, Holman Island, Tsiigehtchic and Baker Lake. A further $225,000 has been set aside to assist communities to develop resource management plans for their areas.

In all, some $7.8 million in new spending for resource management and development has been allocated.

Government Infrastructure

Becoming More Self-Sufficient

Mr. Speaker, it is obvious that our best hope for the future is to become less dependent on the federal government. But, in order to reduce our dependency, we need to raise more of our own revenues, and, at the moment, we have a limited capacity to do so.

Besides a small tax base, we are hamstrung by federal policies that give us little incentive to aggressively promote economic development, and we have been living with a financing formula that discourages initiative or self-reliance.

Forging A New Relationship

Clearly, Mr. Speaker, we need a new fiscal relationship with Ottawa if we are to become more self-sufficient. Currently, our best prospects rest with the responsible development of our vast oil and gas and mineral resources.

We have said before, Mr. Speaker, and we say again, that development of these resources must result in:

-training and jobs for northerners;

-work for northern contractors;

-joint venture and ownership opportunities for northern companies and development corporation; and,

-revenues for the Government of the Northwest Territories in order for us to continue to deliver programs to all of our constituents in a meaningful way.

But, Mr. Speaker, until responsibility for mineral and oil and gas development is devolved to us, we will be unable to exercise full control over development and its environmental impacts. We will be unable to guarantee maximization of socio-economic advantages for northerners.

Mr. Speaker, it is said that Finance Ministers, by statements that they make, set the tone that influences investment in their particular jurisdictions. Whether it is true or not in the north, I do not know. But, just in case there are investors or potential investors listening, let me be quite clear.

We recognize and respect that shareholders in companies want a return on their investment. The people of the north are no different; they want a return on the depletion of their resources.

We recognize and respect that companies want some certainty if they are going to invest large sums of money in the north. Again, Mr. Speaker, we are no different; we want some certainty that northerners are going to benefit from large-scale developments.

We recognize and respect that companies require a regulatory regime that is clear, concise and fair. Again, Mr. Speaker, we are no different; we foresee regimes that are efficient, effective and orderly, regimes that respect traditional pursuits, protect workers' rights and safety, protect the environment and allow for profitable development.

To some, Mr. Speaker, it would appear that many of these things that I have mentioned are unachievable. Mr. Speaker, we believe that they are achievable and that, with communication, cooperation, understanding and goodwill, the north can be developed so that we can all be winners.

Devolution of responsibility for non-renewable resources must be accompanied by a fair share of royalty dollars. These dollars are necessary to assist us to become more fiscally independent. Without devolution, there is little or no fiscal incentive for the territories to promote development since all additional revenues will go to the federal government.

Mr. Speaker, there are those who say no to more devolution. There are those who say not at this time. While I respect those opinions, Mr. Speaker, I must point out that permits are being applied for and issued. Corporate dreams and aspirations are becoming reality. Development of the north, whether we like it or not, is taking place.

We must take control in order that decisions affecting the north, its people, its environment and its coffers, are made in the north.

We must not cause a future government to look back and wonder why we did not seize the opportunity.

Mr. Speaker, although I have spent a considerable amount of time talking about mineral and oil and gas development, this government is committed to improving the economic outlook in other sectors of the economy as well. We will continue to assist hunters and trappers. We will continue to assist the tourism industry. We will continue to assist small businesses through our grant and loan programs.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier and Members of this Cabinet have undertaken a series of discussions with the Prime Minister, senior Cabinet Ministers and federal officials. We have stressed the need for a new relationship between our two levels of government.

We have acknowledged the fiscal realities confronting the federal government and indicated that, by becoming more self-reliant, we can be part of the solution. We have stated to them that it is in our mutual interest to start doing things differently.

To this end, and with advice from the Standing Committee on Finance, we have sought to resolve a number of outstanding federal/territorial issues so that we can move on to more substantial long-term matters.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report that progress has been made on a number of these outstanding problems, including the health care billings dispute, official languages program cutbacks and responsibility for police services.

We are not working with Canada to develop the tools we need to reduce our dependence on the federal government and to generate real wealth in the north that benefits all Canadians.

More specifically, we require a new formula financing agreement that will allow both Canada and the Northwest Territories to meaningfully share the risks and rewards of increased economic activity. We want a formula that encourages and rewards initiative rather than complacency.

We need to ensure that the interest of major stakeholders, including the emerging Nunavut territory and aboriginal claimant groups, are protected in discussions leading to devolution. In the final analysis, all parties, including the federal government and industry, are seeking through devolution to establish a climate where key investment and resource management decisions can be made in an environment of certainty.

We need a reform of federal income support programs that allows us more flexibility to encourage residents of the Northwest Territories to become more individually self-sufficient. This flexibility is essential to the development of northern solutions to northern problems.

We need to intensify cooperation with the federal government to improve the efficiency of program delivery in the north. One example would be allowing the Government of the Northwest Territories to deliver, on behalf of DIAND, the infrastructure required for the new territory of Nunavut. This would make use of our existing expertise in building infrastructure in the north and would avoid duplication of existing administration.

Mr. Speaker, we are asking Canada to acknowledge the need for investment in essential infrastructure that is critical to non-renewable resource development. Improved transportation and communication links among our communities will lower the cost of living and doing business in the north, providing significant fiscal and social benefits.

We must not limit our infrastructure focus to gravel or asphalt. We have to get our minds around the potential of the new information highway.

These knowledge based technologies can open up previously unavailable opportunities to northerners. The information highway can overcome permafrost or seasonal shipping or any other physical barrier that has traditionally cut us off from the rest of the country and give us new access to the wider world. The north must be actively involved in the information highway's planning and implementation.

We are mature enough to recognize that self-sufficiency means more than just wresting financial concessions from the federal government, or substituting our decision-making authority for theirs, in terms of how to slice up the financial pie. It is also about how to create a larger pie and share it more equitably.

Self-sufficiency also means becoming more accountable for the consequences of the decision we take -- or those we fail to take -- to improve the quality of life for all northerners.

It means having an agenda and the discipline necessary to see it through. It is about making choices in times of diminishing resources -- not just about where we need to spend, but also where we need to cut to meet that agenda.

Mr. Speaker, the choices are stark. We can ignore the ominous rumblings from an increasingly indebted south, cross our fingers and hope the pain they inflict won't be too great. Or, we can move forward.

Realistically, the status quo isn't an option. Not only because the south is increasingly unwilling and unable to provide us with the resources we need, it's more because the status quo has condemned -- and without change will continue to condemn -- far too many of us especially our young people to a marginal existence.

That is why we have patiently and consistently made the case that we want to build a stronger northern economy, one which will create new jobs and business opportunities and, in doing so, reduce our dependence on federal transfers. We have demonstrated clearly that growth in the north benefits all of Canada, as much in the south as in the territories.

Until these discussions begin to bear fruit, however, we continue to face a challenging fiscal situation. Our revenue growth will be severely restricted, and spending decisions will become more difficult.

Conclusion

Mr. Speaker, developing a budget that is fair and balanced is a tightrope act each year. Each year the expectations raise the rope higher and yet the safety net seems to continually shrink.

We have again tried to walk the straight and narrow with this year's budget. We have sought to be fiscally prudent and, at the same time, compassionate about the impacts these measures will have. We have tried to focus on meeting the real needs of today, keeping in mind the likely demands we will have to confront tomorrow.

The times are changing, perhaps too fast for some and too slow for others. But change is our new reality. The task now is to make the most of our traditions while we capitalize on these transitions and forge a better tomorrow.

Mr. Speaker, our job, as Members of this Legislative Assembly and as residents of our communities, is to take the next necessary steps to ensure we achieve progress along this promising path.

We must work, closely and cooperatively, toward our common goals: improving social conditions for our citizens, reducing our dependence on the federal government and beginning to realize our enormous potential to become more self-sufficient. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Item 3, Ministers' statements. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Canadians celebrate Heritage Day each year on the third Monday in February. Heritage Day gives us an opportunity to celebrate who we are and reflect on how our diverse cultures have shaped Canada and Canadians.

The idea for Heritage Day originated with Heritage Canada, a national, non-profit organization. Heritage Canada promotes activities on Heritage Day by producing a poster and educational booklet which centre on a particular heritage theme. This year, on February 20th, the theme is the celebration of the 50th anniversary of the end of the Second World War.

Across Canada, museums and other heritage institutions will host special events which will focus on the end of the war and how far we have come as a nation in the past 50 years.

Schools, museums and historical societies in the Northwest Territories have received information from the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to assist them in planning activities. Mr. Speaker, in Yellowknife, the city's Heritage Committee is preparing a newspaper insert with historical information. The Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre's theme for Heritage Day is the role of aviation during and since the Second World War. The centre will hold special Heritage Day activities and encourage students from Yellowknife Education District No. 1, who have the day free from school, to participate in them. Buffalo Airways will be working in partnership with the centre to celebrate Heritage Day by providing a tour of their facilities.

Mr. Speaker, as Canadians we share a rich history and a magnificent natural environment. I encourage all northern residents to take time on February 20th to celebrate our heritage. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Ministers' statements. Item 4, Members' statements. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, one year ago, the Members of the Ordinary Members' Caucus shared with our colleague, Fred Koe, the exaltation and excitement as the NWT junior men's curling team, which included his sons, ably curled its way into the final at the

Canadian National Junior Men's Championship. Media reported the final game on CBC sharing...(inaudible)...as the game stayed a close contest into the last end. When the final rock was thrown, we shared the thrill of near victory.

However, Mr. Speaker, the victory slipped away in a manner which would have brought grown men to tears, and which had us shaking our heads in disbelief. It was then that those four young men -- Kevin Koe, Jamie Koe, Mark Whitehead and Kevin Whitehead -- showed us what fine people they are. All of them, and in particular their skip, Kevin Koe, accepted the judge's decision with grace and dignity seldom seen in the win-at-all-costs sporting arena.

As northerners, we were all proud of these young sportsmen. It is therefore with great pleasure that Members of the Ordinary Members' Caucus would like to congratulate Kevin Koe's junior men's curling team on the recent announcement that the National Fair Play Award would be given to their rink this year. Mr. Speaker, the award is given to a team that has exemplified outstanding sportsmanlike behaviour. We can think of no team better to receive this award.

To Kevin, Jamie, Mark and Kevin, congratulations. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Mr. Speaker, on the weekend, I talked to constituents and other Yellowknifers while I was shopping. People in this city, Mr. Speaker, are sick and tired of so-called consensus government. All MLAs sense it, and some Members are urging others to call a snap election hoping to cash in on this public disenchantment.

Mr. Speaker, no election, whenever it is held, will overcome the inherent weakness of our present system; a weakness which could be fixed if there was the political will to do it. Rather than tackle the structural impotence, Mr. Speaker, Members would prefer to gamble that the next time around will be better.

There's no guarantee that anything will be improved following a snap election, Mr. Speaker. The idea that the electoral process will bring about our salvation is absolute nonsense. The faces may change, but the complete lack of accountability between elections will remain. Instead of Joe Blow being bowled over, it will be Joe Blow's replacement worker.

I argued two years ago, Mr. Speaker, that there should be a spring election for very good, solid, practical, fiscal reasons. It would give a new government enough time to put a budget together before the winter session. That was not favoured by MLAs, and they argued against my wonderful reasoning that our act provides for fixed elections every four years and the public mandate is absolutely clear in the law. The public fully expect an election next fall and potential candidates are already making preparations with that in mind. If we wanted a spring election, we should have made that clear this summer and done it for good solid reasons. Any move to have a spring election very soon would be seen as opportunism and an attempt by MLAs to catch the opposition with their pants down and would be seen by many of the people in Yellowknife as complete sleazy tactics.

In my opinion, that strategy will backfire and the people who will suffer most are the present incumbents. The mess, if there is a mess, is, after all, the creation of the people who sit right here. The time would be better spent redeeming ourselves rather than gambling on another swift throw of the dice. I look forward with great anticipation to a debate on this subject in this Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Item 4, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. Item 4, Members' statements. Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On behalf of the Nunavut Caucus, I would like to advise Members of the Legislative Assembly that Ms. Rebecca Mike has been chosen as the new chairperson of the Nunavut Caucus. This appointment was made necessary following Mr. Allooloo's resignation from the position on February 6th. Members of the Nunavut Caucus would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge Mr. Allooloo's contributions over the past eight years and thank him for his efforts in support of the aspirations

and needs of the people of Nunavut. Members of the Nunavut Caucus and I am sure, all Members of this House look forward to a continued cooperative approach to addressing the issues relating to the realization of Nunavut, under the able and dedicated leadership of Ms. Mike. I would like to thank her for accepting the position and wish her every success in our future endeavours. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Congratulations to you, too, Ms. Mike. Item 4, Members' statements. Mr. Zoe.

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. I would like to remind the Members to try and stay within the two and a half minutes. I have yet to learn how to cut off Members with the buttons here so could I just ask the Members to stay within the rules and seek unanimous consent to conclude your statement. Thank you. Item 4, Members' statements. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there's been a lot of reaction to the proposed Bill C-68, the new firearms legislation. At this time, I would like to make some comments on this bill. The federal bill, as introduced, has very honourable intentions and those intentions are to try to stop criminals from using firearms in the commission of a crime. There are many other aspects of the bill that, in some respects, can be supported such as the registration of handguns and the registration of other fancy weapons that are used for purposes other than for hunting or subsistence gathering.

My own opinion is I am opposed to the current bill because it will severely restrict the abilities of northerners to continue what they do daily; that is, to hunt and trap and use weapons for subsistence gathering. I'm totally opposed to the aspects of the bill which include the annual registration, the inability to lend weapons to friends who are in need and the inability to leave weapons in your boat, sleigh, or cabins unattended. Under the new legislation, these are perceived as criminal acts and I'm totally opposed to those aspects of the bill. I just wanted to make my statement on that today. Mahsi.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Item 4, Members' statements. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. The Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake is seeking unanimous consent to continue his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 4, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

(Translation) Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I will be saying this in my own language. On February 14th, the federal Minister of Justice tabled new legislation for controlling firearms. If it is passed by Parliament in Ottawa, it will change the law and require everyone in Canada to register their firearms. It will bring very harsh penalties into effect for everyone who is found guilty of violating the new regulations.

These new regulations may have been designed to meet the needs of people in southern Canada, but they will have a very negative effect on traditional lifestyles in the north. If we continue to use our firearms the way we do now, we will be breaking the law and will be treated as criminals. This is not right. The federal Minister of Justice, the Honourable Allan Rock, came to the Northwest Territories last year and many people told him that firearms are important to us. He said he would listen and would consider the needs of the aboriginal people. Now it is clear that he did not.

Our government has been trying hard to oppose this new legislation and I think the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi has been doing a good job in taking our message forward. I also think that our federal Members of Parliament, the Honourable Ethel Blondin-Andrews and the Honourable Jack Anawak, have been working hard to deal with this issue but right now it seems that the federal government is only interested in trying to satisfy residents of big cities in southern Canada. (Translation ends)

I am more or less outraged and unhappy by these new federal firearms control proposals. I regard them as yet another assault on our way of life and as an offensive slap in the face to traditional aboriginal ways and northern lifestyle. Despite the best efforts that have been made by the Ministers of Justice and Renewable Resources and despite the advice the Honourable Allan Rock received from northern leaders, the federal government has demonstrated its unwillingness...

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Your time is up.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The honourable Member for Nahendeh is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Antoine, you can complete your statement.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Despite the best efforts that have been made by the ministers of Justice and Renewable Resources, and despite the advice the Honourable Allan Rock received from northern leaders, the federal government has demonstrated its unwillingness to take our concerns over national registration systems, firearms storage and safety training seriously.

It is now clear that the so-called consultation process was merely a public relations exercise, and that the federal Minister of Justice has a serious credibility problem in dealing with northerners on this issue. I believe that we must act swiftly to express our opposition to these new and unfair regulations.

I agree that the Justice and Legal Affairs Committee that will be reviewing this new legislation should be invited to the Northwest Territories. But that will not be enough, we need to be heard on their turf as well. We need to appear before the committee when they meet on Capital Hill so that our voices cannot be simply dismissed as distant regional concerns.

We need to inform the Ottawa media and the southern public about the implications that this regulation carries for aboriginal people. I simply cannot believe that the rest of Canada is as nearsighted or incapable of understanding our aboriginal way of life as Mr. Rock and his bureaucrats.

If necessary, we need to fight in the courts to protect our aboriginal rights to pursue traditional hunting activities. Mr. Speaker, through all these efforts, northerners will need to work together, east and west, large communities and small communities. I find some room for hope in the observation that a few months ago, the federal government was pursuing another policy on cruise missile testing and that was offensive and wrong. Our opinion on that subject was finally heard and the federal policy was modified, only because we stood together and spoke out to confront the southern bureaucrats who wanted to disregard our beliefs. That same unity is needed now if we are to effectively oppose this inappropriate and damaging federal legislation. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Hear, hear.

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Item 4, Members' statements. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was reading, Mr. Speaker, a newspaper entitled "Native Journal" and I know that many Members of this House have spoken quite articulately about the whole issue of youth and the support that we, as the Members of the Assembly, should try to provide to our youth.

Last year, as most Members know, there was the establishment of a national aboriginal achievement awards; our Premier was a recipient of one of those awards. But this year in 1995, the national aboriginal achievement awards will include a new category and that is the youth award. The intention is to choose one individual who would be entitled to receive a $5,000 scholarship that will be bestowed upon an aboriginal youth of Inuit, Metis or First Nations ancestry between the ages of 15 and 21.

I think that it is important for all of us, to at least make some effort -- particularly those who have made comments in this Assembly and for those who are in the communities that wish to support their young people -- that we make every effort to provide a submission to this particular award because I think that it is incumbent upon all of us to at least try to provide additional financial support wherever it is possible. Nominations for the awards include such categories as arts and culture, academics, education, business, community development and public service, environmental and land management, indigenous harvesting, health and medicine, heritage and spirituality, law, media, communication, science and technology and last, but just as important, sports.

Mr. Speaker, we recognized, a few minutes ago, the distinguished contribution of a young team of which one of those individuals could possibly be a recipient of this particular award if we took the time to make a presentation to the group that is going to make the final decisions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Item 4, Members' statements. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With regard to the issue of gun control, we have been discussing this issue and we talked about it further last week. With regard to the bill, the federal Minister met with us and it seemed like he had understood fully our concerns. Has he done anything to solve these problems, these issues and concerns that we have? With that, Mr. Speaker, we already have a law in place and we are happy with the law. People are not misusing it and abusing it.

But, Mr. Speaker, our constituents will not be able to understand fully, right away, if the bill is put into place. The current law that we have right now, people understand it fully and they try and comply with it to the best of their ability. And we try and keep up with registration whenever it expires. So, with that, Mr. Speaker, we have grave concerns for this new bill. Especially for northerners who are subsistence harvesting.

It will be difficult for our people to try and comply with this law, especially when there are animals and other things that come into our communities that endanger the public. So, we try and keep our guns under control and we try to store them properly, according to the law. If there are any other provisions in the new law that we have to comply with, it will be very difficult for us because we are unique. We have to think about this further and try to solve some of the problems, the issues and the concerns that we have. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 4, Members' statements. Item 5, returns to oral questions. Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two returns to oral questions.

First, asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on February 17, 1995 with regard to a woodcutting permit in Fort Smith. A copy of the free timber cutting permit has been provided to the honourable Member as requested, as well as information on the investigation that was conducted.

The second return, if I may, Mr. Speaker, is a return to an oral question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on February 17, 1995 regarding a shortage of muskox hides for constituents. Both the departments of Renewable Resources and Economic Development and Tourism have advised Mrs. Dube of sources for muskox hides. These hides are available from the organizations that conduct commercial harvests. Because the hides belong to the organizations and not the government, Mrs. Dube will have to negotiate terms for purchase of the hides with them. The Department of Renewable Resources will provide Mrs. Dube with a list of organizations that will be conducting commercial harvests of muskox this spring. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Item 5, returns to oral questions. Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 7, oral questions. I'm sorry, back to item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Whitford.

Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 7, oral questions. Mr. Antoine and then Mr. Zoe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Justice. I would like to commend the Minister, Mr. Speaker, for the lead role that he has been taking in responding to the new federal firearms legislation that I believe is inappropriate and damaging to aboriginal people of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister has indicated that this offensive draft legislation will be reviewed by the House of Commons Justice and Legal Affairs Committee which is chaired by the Honourable Warren Allmand, I believe. He has also indicated that he will be inviting this parliamentary committee to hold hearings in the Northwest Territories. Can the Minister advise the House whether he also plans to make funding and technical assistance available for northern organizations and individuals who wish to make presentations to the federal committee? Mahsi.

Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I'm pleased to hear that the Minister of Justice will be taking a proactive role in trying to get the committee to hear the views of northerners first hand. However, it is true that comments made to a federal committee in Yellowknife may not attract the attention of southern Canadians in Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver or any other cities down south. Has the Minister given consideration to making a formal representation, either to the Minister or to the federal Justice and Legal Affairs Committee in Ottawa itself, so that southern Canadians can fully understand the implications that these new firearms regulations have for our culture and our traditional lifestyles? Mahsi.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Last Friday, the Minister indicated in his statement to the House that there may be grounds for regarding the new legislation as an infringement on section 35 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This is the section of the Canadian Constitution that protects aboriginal rights. Can the Minister indicate what work has been carried out in the Department of Justice to explore the

constitutional implications of Mr. Rock's new firearms proposal? Mahsi.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi once again, Mr. Speaker. Final supplementary to the Minister of Justice. I am pleased to see the level of coordination that the Minister has been able to achieve with his counterparts in the Yukon, Alberta and Saskatchewan, in expressing opposition to this inappropriate legislation. However, I'm sure that our agenda has been made clear to them as northerners. It's very different from some of these lobby groups acting on behalf of gun collectors and maybe some sport hunters in southern provinces. We have sport hunters up here as well, but in the southern provinces...Can the Minister advise the House how future decisions will be made on future joint positions taken by the NWT, Yukon, Alberta and Saskatchewan? Mahsi.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Item 7, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs. Over the past several years, there was a lot of hype, excitement, and discussions about community initiatives transfers. To my knowledge, so far we have agreements in place in the communities of Cape Dorset and, to some extent, Inuvik. Can the Minister very briefly inform us as to what the current initiatives are under the community initiatives transfers program?

Thank you. Minister of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. As I mentioned earlier, there was a lot of hype and a lot of excitement about transferring responsibilities from government agencies to communities. I'm not sure if that excitement is still there, other than in the two communities that have agreements. Can the Minister explain or let us know what are the people who were working on the community initiatives transfer doing now? Are they still focusing on trying to get agreements with other communities?

Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Item 7, oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Appreciating these tough fiscal times, governments have to get revenue. I note in the budget speech, Mr. Speaker, that there are several initiatives. I've got no problems with the mark-ups on liquor and liquor licensing, Housing Corporation proposals to raise rents of those people who can afford it, and perhaps when I understand it better, even the cost of health and some fees being increased.

However, since the Minister has indicated that the big challenge ahead of us is, in fact, to develop our economy and, he says, to become more self-sufficient in this budget, that we must aggressively promote economic development because we have to get more self-reliant, why is it that he is, in fact, increasing charges for Economic Development and Tourism services and also including extra costs for those services and even including increased costs for business licences and professional development fees? Those are the things, in fact, that will help us to promote our economy. These seem to be contradictory. Why has he done that?

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that was recommended to us from the envelope committee and it was pointed out that we have been falling behind over the last few years in the fees and services that we charge in the Northwest Territories compared to the fees and services that are charged elsewhere in the country. We were looking for revenue so we took the recommendation and put it in the budget, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Lewis.

Mr. Speaker, are there some increases, then, to costs to businesses that have been decided upon but are not included in this list of six revenue initiatives that Members should be made aware of?

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, there may well be and as I said in the budget, Ministers, as they bring their budgets forward, will expound and expand upon, if necessary, the list that I read out into the House today. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

The Minister will know that I have a lifelong interest in economic matters. Is there a proposal, as far as the Minister is aware, to increase stumpage fees, for example, that will have a tremendous impact on the renewable resource of ours in our lumber industry? Because that's one of the fears that I have; this bludgeoning industry, in fact, is going to have it's fees doubled. Is that one of the proposals that isn't in this list of initiatives?

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, it is one of the things that the Department of Renewable Resources is looking at, yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Item 7, oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'll take the question as notice.

Thank you. The question has been taken as notice. Item 7, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Arngna'naaq. In 1994, there were some people who harvested female polar bears in Pelly Bay, and then they confiscated the polar bear hides. That was okay, Mr. Speaker. The only problem we have is that the meat was also confiscated by Renewable Resources. I think there were over five people who hunted polar bear in the Repulse Bay region. I just want to ask, through you, Mr. Speaker, whether this is according to the act where they have to confiscate the meat as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The question that Mr. Ningark is asking, I could respond to him to say that currently in wildlife legislation, the females that are harvested, if they go beyond the quota by harvesting too many females, they have to confiscate the hide. I have to find out from my officials if the meat should not have been confiscated, as well. Perhaps, if the polar bear had a collar, it would have been tranquilized. I believe that's the way the regulation reads, but I don't think it was the intention, or it wasn't right of them to confiscate the meat as well. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The people who harvested males, neither the meat nor the hide was confiscated. They don't have permanent employment. Perhaps if Renewable Resources or the wildlife officers could apologize to the people for confiscating the meat from the polar bear. Thank you.

Mr. Arngna'naaq.

(Translation) Mr. Speaker, I will look into the events that happened at that time that the Member is talking about. In a letter we will include why the meat was confiscated. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 7, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources, but I will ask the Minister of Finance. I made a Member's statement last week and asked questions last week with regard to the GLOs. Tomorrow the GLOs will have to sign some kind of an agreement to be laid off or to work on a half-time basis. They're going to have to work only half a day and make half-day wages. What happens to the money that they were getting when they were working full time? What happens to half of the money now? Where does it go? Thank you.

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, any savings that we make on whether it's cutting back programs or reducing spending in any particular area, the money remains with the department that would have been expending the money. In this particular instance, it was developed in an envelope, Mr. Speaker, and that money is the savings or part of the savings that we're trying to achieve this year to bring our deficit into line. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Item 7, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had a question for the Premier, but I'll go ahead with the Minister of Education. Mr. Speaker, recently I've received correspondence from aboriginal residents of the Northwest Territories who are attending the University of Saskatchewan, taking the Indian teachers' education program. They've expressed concern with regard to not being considered for the post-secondary incentive loan program. Although the students in the Northwest Territories do receive the post-secondary incentive program, the students from Saskatchewan from the Northwest Territories do not receive it. Can I ask the Minister how much this grant is, with regard to the extra incentive funds available to northern students? Thank you.

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, it's an incentive loan and if the program is not completed, it's repayable, I believe. It's also needs assessed, based on the student.

The other component to it is that it was a decision that was made on a policy basis that this particular program would be only applicable to students who were part of the community teacher education program. It was just a continuation from primarily the last government, with a view that we were proceeding to 50 per cent teachers in our system.

I'm aware of the letter. I did write back to them on February 15th. I was advised that I was not prepared to answer, but the fact was I did answer. The unfortunate thing is that, based on the financial situation of our government, we don't see an opportunity to increase.

However, as I indicated on that particular issue, unless we see a student-by-student concern, it would be very difficult for us to say we can respond to more funding or no funding. And so, what I have asked on Friday, is to have one of my staff members actually meet with the students to see whether or not there is a situation where there is a significant requirement, whether or not our present programs would be able to address some of their concerns.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie Jewell.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Could I ask the Minister, recognizing that it's an incentive program and determined on a needs assessment, can the Minister give us some ideas with regard to whether or not there is a cap on this particular incentive loan or is there a set amount that is placed aside under policy by his department for such a loan? Thank you.

Mr. Nerysoo.

I believe there is a cap, I am just not totally certain about the amount. I will get the information more specifically for the honourable Member.

Thank you. Item 7, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of the Housing Corporation. Last October, I asked a written question regarding the amounts of arrears owed by people to the Housing Corporation and I received a response from the Minister's office and, as of March 31, 1994, the amount of arrears owing to the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation was approximately $6.9 million. A lot of these arrears may be current and collectable, but I am sure there is a lot of it that is long-outstanding and uncollectible. I am also aware that many of the arrears on the books are owed by people who are either deceased or have moved out of the country. So my question to the Minister is, what action is the department taking in trying to collect these outstanding rental arrears?

Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are working with the local housing authorities to try to collect the arrears that are collectable. We are also coming up with a new collection policy that will be taken to Cabinet, hopefully, by the end of March so that we have a new collection policy to collect arrears and also a policy to write off arrears because at present we are not allowed to write off those arrears. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Part of these rents, as I had mentioned, are long outstanding, probably could be written off, especially if the person who owes the money isn't around any more. You mentioned that it is a problem for the housing associations so I assume that these outstanding rental arrears -- $6 or $7 million worth -- have some impact on the daily operations of the housing associations. So my supplementary is, what direct impact is there on a local housing association if they don't collect the rent or the rental arrears?

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My understanding of the impact on the local housing authorities, at the present time, there is no impact on them. We have a new agreement signed with some housing authorities that if they collect the back rent, then they would get to keep a percentage of it. But at the present time, it doesn't have an impact on them. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Are these housing associations supposed to be self-sufficient? Is that in current policy that the revenues that they generate go towards offsetting their expenses, or are they still receiving huge contributions from the Housing Corporation?

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. They are still receiving huge contributions from the Housing Corporation. The rents can nowhere near pay the O and M cost of running the rental stock in the communities. Thank you.

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The Minister mentioned that there is some work going on towards preparing a policy for writing off these uncollectible arrears. How soon does the Minister expect this policy to be ready?