This is page numbers 281 - 307 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was development.

Topics

Members Present

Mr. Antoine, Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq, Mr. Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Hon. Samuel Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Hon. Kelvin Ng, Mr. Ningark, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Hon. John Todd, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 281

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Good morning. I have been informed that Her Honour, the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories, is prepared to assent to bills. Mr. Clerk, would you ascertain if the Commissioner is prepared to enter the Chamber and assent to bills?

Assent To Bills
Assent To Bills

Page 281

Commissioner Maksagak

Please be seated. As Commissioner of the Northwest Territories, it gives me pleasure to assent to the following bills: Bill 2, An Act to Amend the Apprenticeship and Trade Certification Act; Bill 3, An Act to Amend the Judicature Act; Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Limitation of Actions Act; Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Maintenance Act; Bill 6, An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act; Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Co-operative Associations Act; Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Dental Mechanics Act; Bill 9, An Act to Amend the Legal Profession Act; Bill 10, An Act to Amend the Liquor Act; Bill 11, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act; Bill 12, An Act to Amend the Judicature Act, No. 2; and, Bill 14, Miscellaneous Statutes Amending Act, 1994. Thank you.

---Applause

Assent To Bills
Assent To Bills

Page 281

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ningark.

School Material Written In Different Dialects
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 281

John Ningark Natilikmiot

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when Nunavut Caucus had their meeting in Gjoa Haven, there was a resident of Gjoa Haven who made a presentation to the committee regarding the use of the Inuktitut language instruction in the schools. We are happy to have aboriginal languages taught in the schools; however, there was one concern raised by the presenter that the materials being used in the schools are written in a different dialect and not the dialect used in Pelly Bay. There are dialect differences and the materials that are being used right now are currently from another area, Mr. Speaker. I think the material should be made available in different dialects, so that the appropriate dialect can be taught in the school. I will be asking an oral question to the Minister regarding this item. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

School Material Written In Different Dialects
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 281

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudlat.

Policies Governing Social Assistance
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 281

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Under Members' statements, I would like to say that in the north, we have people receiving social assistance from Social Services. Recipients are able to cash their cheques. People would like to know who made the cheques cashable. Mr. Speaker, I will be asking questions regarding where the authority to cash welfare cheques came from, if there are policies regarding social assistance and how it should be dealt with. I will be asking a question of the Minister in this matter.

Policies Governing Social Assistance
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 281

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford.

Coastlines Of Canada
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 281

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are a few times that things really irritate northerners, to the point where they write or phone to complain. Sometimes the complaints are listened to and positive changes are made and other times not. One of the things that has irritated people quite a lot in the last little while is the phrase continually used by our national broadcaster, the CBC, that Canada is from coast to coast. Anyone looking at a map can tell at a glance that Canada has three oceans. It is bordered on the east by the Atlantic, the Pacific on the west and the Arctic Ocean on the north.

Our national radio, the CBC, continues to use this phrase. They even have programs called "Coast to Coast." Cross Country Checkup on Sundays continuously uses the phrase that they are broadcasting from coast to coast. I was in Cambridge Bay not too long ago, on the northern coast, and I listened to CBC there and there was no reference made to it at that time. Even more irritating, Mr. Speaker, is our national broadcaster continuously advertises on the news and their current affairs programs, "Just call us and let us know your concerns," and they give a 1-800 number. Oft-times constituents of mine have tried to call these numbers and they are told that number doesn't operate here in the Northwest Territories. Well, excuse me, Mr. Speaker, but the last time I checked the map, the Northwest Territories was still in Canada.

I wrote a letter to the CBC asking that this be corrected and, hopefully, something will come out of it. Northerners do like to participate in these programs and we certainly want to have some reference made to the fact that Canada is from coast to coast to coast. Thank you.

Coastlines Of Canada
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 282

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Second Annual Beer Tasting Festival
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 282

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to mention today a small business which seems to have done very well over the past several years. A Mr. and Mrs. Koshynsky run a little business called E-Zee-Brew and many, many people go there to buy all kinds of supplies so they can make their own product at home. It has become a bit of a tradition now in the north that more and more people are beginning to make these things which normally, if they go to the local liquor store, cost them a lot of money.

I know that some proprietors are getting very concerned because this year, Mr. Speaker, the sales of alcohol in the Northwest Territories have gone down significantly. That's a good thing because when you brew gentle stuff at home; it is mild and often good for your system. I would like to point out, Mr. Speaker, that nearly all the stuff that we bring in from the south, especially if it's not distilled, is water. Northern people know that we have lots of water.

Second Annual Beer Tasting Festival
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 282

An Hon. Member

(Microphone turned off)

Second Annual Beer Tasting Festival
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 282

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Well, maybe not the Power Corporation, but we do have enough. A few gallons is not going to make a difference to the cost of power in the territories, Mr. Speaker. This is a gentle kind of industry done at home which most people seem to be enjoying and which seems to have resulted in quite a reduction in the sale of the more damaging kinds of brews that come in from the south and which possibly cause people damage. At least that's the evidence that I have.

In the next few weeks, there will be the second annual beer tasting festival in Yellowknife and those people who have been brewing and have perfected their art over the last 30 years will be competing with each other to see which individual has created the most palatable brew. So, Mr. Speaker, I wanted Members to know that this is a small industry which is flourishing quite well and is, in my opinion, having a good effect on those people who are very moderate in their needs to consume any kind of alcohol. This is, in fact, a very gentle sport, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Second Annual Beer Tasting Festival
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 282

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Exploration For Oil In Fort Liard Region
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 282

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (Translation) I am going to speak in my own language. What I wanted to mention today is apparently in one of the communities in my constituency, Fort Liard, they are going to be starting to drill for oil where Fort Liard sits, right at the edge of the BC border. It is good country for oil.

Last December, the federal Minister Ron Irwin and Harry Deneron, the chief from Fort Liard, met and discussed the possibility of drilling for oil in Fort Liard. (Translation ends)

The opening of land in the Fort Liard region occurred when the federal government approved a partial lifting of the ban on exploration in the north. The ban was there to give aboriginal people time to settle their land claim negotiations.

The winning bids, Mr. Speaker, included a large piece of land about 150,000 hectares, which is about 575 square miles, that has opened up in the immediate area of Fort Liard. Mr. Speaker, the following companies were successful in their bids in this area: Ranger Oil Limited, AMOCO Canada Petroleum Company Limited, Chevron Canada Resources Limited, Ocelot Energy Limited, Shell Canada Limited, and Paramount Resources, all of Calgary. Mr. Speaker, approximately $22.7 million has been committed by these six companies in assessing the region's potential, and this is for the next four years.

Mr. Speaker, the federal government awarded the exploration licence early this month, but it was effective from late December of last year. Mr. Speaker, this is what Mr. Irwin, the Minister of Indian Affairs, had to say about the arrangement: "By working in partnership with the federal government and the Fort Liard band council, we have successfully reopened this highly prospective area. The results will be much-needed employment and business opportunities for the Fort Liard residents." This statement was also endorsed by the chief, Henry Deneron, who said: "I am pleased that the federal government worked with my community to ensure that exploration activities will be managed in a way that meets our needs. These investments will not only create opportunities for the people of Fort Liard, but will benefit our region as a whole."

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to recognize the efforts of Fort Liard and their cooperation with the federal government in taking the initiative for establishing economic opportunities for the community and the region. Mr. Speaker, using Fort Liard as an example, it is imperative that we ensure that any economic activity generated by the presence of southern companies must benefit the community and the region first. Mr. Speaker, if the necessary resources are available here, then there is no excuse to preclude employment and business opportunities for local residents and businesses in the community as well as in the region. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Exploration For Oil In Fort Liard Region
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 282

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ballantyne.

Using "drunkenness" As A Defence In Court
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 282

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Supreme Court of Canada's decision legitimizing drunkenness as a defence has inevitably come to slap us here in the Northwest Territories. When Minister Allan Rock was here in the fall, I remember asking him, in a Caucus meeting, what the implications would be for the Northwest Territories. He said two things, at that time. He said that the Supreme Court decision was so precisely worded that it would be only

used in the rarest case. He also said that he would look at bringing in legislation to deal with the whole issue.

Now it seems that the legal experts who advise them were wrong again. It seems to be used more and more frequently. Here in the Northwest Territories where alcohol and drug abuse are major social problems, the implications of this Supreme Court decision are immense. Minister Rock, this week, is introducing a bill -- today, I think, in the House -- where he is going to address the problem.. Time will only tell, during the next two or three days, if the bill goes far enough. Already some of the preliminary responses of women's group are that it hasn't gone far enough.

But for here in the territories, the reality has hit home. Violent drunks now have the opportunity to justify their actions in the Northwest Territories. This is unacceptable to all of us. In light of the fact that we now have our first case here in the territories, I think that it is imperative that our Justice Minister re-emphasize our government's opposition to the Supreme Court decision and that our Justice Minister does everything in his power to ensure that Mr. Rock's legislation is an adequate response to the decision. If, in the opinion of the government and this Legislative Assembly, the Justice Minister's legislation is not an adequate response, then I, along with others, will be asking for our Justice Minister to suggest amendments to that legislation. Thank you very much.

Using "drunkenness" As A Defence In Court
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 283

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to take the opportunity to thank the Minister of Renewable Resources for halting the exportation of the live wood bison from the Hanging Ice Bison Ranch near Fort Smith, to be auctioned down south.

Mr. Speaker, the reason that I requested this to be halted was because concerns were expressed to me by the native organizations in Fort Smith. Both the Metis Nation and the band had brought these issues to my attention. It has further been brought to my attention the sustainable development committee of the town could not come to a decision on whether or not to support this particular move.

We all know that it is critical to listen to the user groups of our renewable resources. The Department of Renewable Resources has made it a practice to consult with the band and the Metis with regard to addressing trappers' cabins, traplines, trappers' funding allocation, and also if policy changes are required for addressing fire management. So, Mr. Speaker, the band and Metis felt it was critical to consult with them regarding the exportation of wood bison.

They fully support the exportation of bison meat but, until they are consulted, they have a sincere difficulty with supporting the current process to export these live wood bison. Mr. Speaker, the concern of such a unique genetic animal -- as we all know, wood bison is bigger than the prairie bison -- and also the fear of what may happen -- which happened to the char industry

where aquaculture has taken place -- and the future could have a negative impact on what could happen to the ranch.

Mr. Speaker, these types of concerns expressed are legitimate and I am sure the community will welcome the Department of Renewable Resources for the consultation process which will take place next week.

The community groups also want to thank the department for their caretaking role in the bison ranch, and would like to let the Minister know that they have appreciated the efforts the department has been making to make this ranch viable. Thank you.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 106-12(7): Tabling Of Special Needs School Survey
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 283

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Dent on February 20, 1995 with regard to tabling a special needs school survey.

The student support services information system: classroom and school-community profiles were developed as a planning and information document for my department. I have reviewed the matter and I will not be tabling the document since it was written for our own use and is available only in English. However, I will ensure that Mr. Dent and all Members receive a copy. More copies are being printed and I will provide you with copies as soon as these have been completed. I will also seriously consider the matter of providing summary versions translated in the Inuktitut language once the Legislative Assembly has concluded its business this session. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 106-12(7): Tabling Of Special Needs School Survey
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 283

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 52-12(7): Status Of Vacancies On Liquor Board
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 283

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a question asked by Mr. Whitford on February 15, 1995 with regard to the status of vacancies on the Liquor Board.

A maximum of nine people can be appointed to the Liquor Board. The board is currently comprised of eight members. Of these members, five are men and three are women. I am hoping to appoint another member. Just for additional information, Mr. Speaker, Theresa Crane and Don Strang of Yellowknife have been appointed; Mary Rose Casaway of Lutsel K'e; and, Red Pedersen of Kitikmeot, so that there is a representative from generally every region in the Northwest Territories.

Return To Question 52-12(7): Status Of Vacancies On Liquor Board
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 283

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 284

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

I would like to recognize today, sitting at the Clerk's table, Ms. Karen Shaner, who is our newly-appointed Deputy Law Clerk.

---Applause

Welcome, Ms. Shaner.

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. Mr. Speaker, subsequent to my Member's statement that I made earlier in my language, I would like to ask the Minister...While Nunavut Caucus was meeting in Gjoa Haven a lady made a presentation to the Caucus -- incidently, the lady has been working as an Inuktitut teacher for many years -- and one of her concerns that she brought to our attention was the teaching materials in Inuktitut used across the board in the eastern Arctic.

Mr. Speaker, the teaching material in Inuktitut is written in one dialect, although dialects differ from region to region. According to the lady who made the presentation, the teaching staff from Netsilik area literally have to translate the material into the appropriate dialect. My question to the honourable Minister is could the Minister communicate and seek advice from the Kitikmeot Divisional Board of Education to see what can be done to address the need in the Natilikmiot area. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do want to advise the honourable Member that it's our intention to be as supportive to the aboriginal languages as possible, no matter what dialect they are. I want to say to the honourable Member that yes, I will communicate with the Kitikmeot divisional board on the matter of curriculum issues and ensure that they respond positively to the concern the honourable Member has raised. Thank you.

Return To Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary to the same Minister. When will the honourable Minister communicate with the Kitikmeot board of education? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'll communicate as soon as possible. I think the honourable Member has raised an important issue, and I need to do a bit of research, but I'll do it as soon as I can, depending on the information that I receive. In fact, I will send a copy of any communication that I have with the Kitikmeot board of education to the honourable Member.

Further Return To Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary to the same Minister. The indication that I'm getting from the honourable Minister is the honourable Minister will be communicating with the Kitikmeot divisional board within a week from today. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. If the honourable Member is making that suggestion, I'll certainly consider it.

Further Return To Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Question 155-12(7): Teaching Materials Used In Eastern Arctic Schools
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a question I would like to direct to the Minister of Renewable Resources. In the past several weeks, we've been hearing a lot on the news and seeing on television the provinces of Alberta and British Columbia transporting live wolves and live sheep to the United States for restocking their herds of sheep and packs of wolves in Yellowstone, I think it is, and other parts of the United States. The program has received both praise and condemnation from the public in both Alberta and British Columbia. In some places, they have asked it be stopped, and in other places, they are encouraging it. It has some possibilities for both those provinces to develop a relationship with the United States for restocking areas where there is depletion. I would like to ask the Minister of Renewable Resources whether or not the Americans have ever approached the Northwest Territories for permission to export live animals or birds from the Northwest Territories.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Return To Question 156-12(7): Export Of Nwt Wildlife To United States
Question 156-12(7): Export Of NWT Wildlife To United States
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe that in the early part of this calendar year there were some officials from the United States who came in and looked at the administrative process we have and the way in which we

manage polar bears in the Northwest Territories. This is in accordance with the work that they have been doing on the importation of polar bears. Whether they have come to a final decision as to whether the work that they are doing will be enough to support the idea of transporting animals to the United States from Canada, at this point, I don't know. But I do know that they wanted to be sure when they export polar bears from Canada to the United States, that our management of the polar bears was sufficient to meet the needs of the people here in the Northwest Territories as well as to meet some other requests that are being made by residents of the United States. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 156-12(7): Export Of Nwt Wildlife To United States
Question 156-12(7): Export Of NWT Wildlife To United States
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary To Question 156-12(7): Export Of Nwt Wildlife To United States
Question 156-12(7): Export Of NWT Wildlife To United States
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Minister, were the consultations limited to just the polar bear? Have there been any overtures towards the importation of wolves or muskoxen?

Supplementary To Question 156-12(7): Export Of Nwt Wildlife To United States
Question 156-12(7): Export Of NWT Wildlife To United States
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Further Return To Question 156-12(7): Export Of Nwt Wildlife To United States
Question 156-12(7): Export Of NWT Wildlife To United States
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To my knowledge, it has been limited to polar bears. Because of the vast area of land that the polar bears cover, I believe that the Northwest Territories is only one jurisdiction of many that they were going to visit. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 156-12(7): Export Of Nwt Wildlife To United States
Question 156-12(7): Export Of NWT Wildlife To United States
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of the Workers' Compensation Board. In the past, the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions completed a review of the Workers' Compensation Board. One of the recommendations in the report recommended providing extended coverage to hunters and trappers. My question to the Minister is what changes have been made in the provision of coverage for hunters and trappers.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 157-12(7): Changes In Wcb Coverage For Hunters And Trappers
Question 157-12(7): Changes In WCB Coverage For Hunters And Trappers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The ABCs committee, along with yourself, Mr. Speaker, have been strong advocates of increased coverage for hunters and trappers. We were able to reach a satisfactory arrangement early last year where I believe we were able to determine an appropriate amount of money that was greater than what was there before. That is now in place where we're providing increased coverage to the hunters and trappers. The actual dollar amount, I think is somewhere in the range of a maximum of $20,000, but I can check into that. I want to assure the honourable Member that we did meet the objectives and the recommendations made by ABCs and the consistent and dogmatic lobbying done by the current Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 157-12(7): Changes In Wcb Coverage For Hunters And Trappers
Question 157-12(7): Changes In WCB Coverage For Hunters And Trappers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 157-12(7): Changes In Wcb Coverage For Hunters And Trappers
Question 157-12(7): Changes In WCB Coverage For Hunters And Trappers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you. I thank the Minister for the action taken. What does it now cost the average hunter or trapper to get coverage under the current regime?

Supplementary To Question 157-12(7): Changes In Wcb Coverage For Hunters And Trappers
Question 157-12(7): Changes In WCB Coverage For Hunters And Trappers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Supplementary To Question 157-12(7): Changes In Wcb Coverage For Hunters And Trappers
Question 157-12(7): Changes In WCB Coverage For Hunters And Trappers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

John Todd Keewatin Central

Mr. Speaker, I should know that answer. Unfortunately, it has slipped my mind right now, so I will have to take the question as notice. Sorry.

Supplementary To Question 157-12(7): Changes In Wcb Coverage For Hunters And Trappers
Question 157-12(7): Changes In WCB Coverage For Hunters And Trappers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, the Minister of Health and Social Services referred to a budget supplement document which summarizes the cooperative efforts among the departments in the social envelope. As far as ordinary Members know, this document is not part of the budget nor was it tabled in this House. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance why this document was brought up as part of the debate on the budget. Mahsi.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you. Good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, that document was put together by the departments for presentation to the Standing Committee on Finance to enable them to see how different areas of the budget relate to the overall problems that they experience in their departments. At that time, it was a possibility that we would bring that document forward and present it to the House to give the House the same kind of knowledge that the Standing Committee on Finance had gained from that document during their review of the budget. So that was the plan at the time, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Good morning to you, too, John. Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, this budget supplement document was provided to Members of the Standing Committee on Finance during the review of the main estimates in January. Information provided to the Standing Committee on Finance is considered confidential by Members of the committee and great care is taken to ensure that these documents remain confidential. For this reason, standing committee Members do not feel it is their place to distribute

documents provided to them by the government during their review of the budget.

However, the Minister of Health and Social Services yesterday appeared to imply that it should have been the responsibility of standing committee Members to distribute the document to all Members. Can the Minister of Finance please clarify whether the Standing Committee on Finance should distribute documents provided to them by the government during their review of the budget? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, and I apologize for the good morning, good afternoon confusion, Mr. Speaker.

---Laughter

I deal an awful lot with the Standing Committee on Finance, Mr. Speaker, and I think that Members of Cabinet sometimes assume, and perhaps wrongly so, that documents that go to the Standing Committee on Finance, automatically go to ordinary Members of the House who are not Members of that committee. So, I would agree with the chairman that it is not the responsibility of the Standing Committee on Finance to distribute those documents and I would suggest that if we make reference to documents in our statements on this side, that we take full responsibility for providing those documents to other Members of the House. That's the way we will do it in the future, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. If the Minister considers this document, the budget supplement document, to be part of the budget, why did he not refer to it in the budget address? Mahsi.

Supplementary To Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I don't consider that document to be part of the budget. It was described as a budget supplement when the information was provided to the Standing Committee on Finance and it was referred to in that manner because it was supplementary information that compiled three particular departments' efforts into something that we felt would be readable and would make more sense if it was put together in one document. It was supplementary information to the budget, not considered part of the budget, Mr. Speaker. So, consequently, I didn't mention it in the budget speech. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Final supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi. Once again, Mr. Speaker, it appears that this budget supplement document should be accompanying a supplementary appropriation, as it refers to initiatives which are not mentioned in the main estimates. Can the Minister of Finance tell this House whether the government will be introducing a supplementary appropriation for the additional initiatives that are mentioned in this document? Mahsi.

Supplementary To Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, depending on what Mr. Martin says on Monday, I may be coming back with a different kind of budget. Mr. Speaker, as the chairman knows, there is going to be a meeting between myself and the Standing Committee on Finance on Wednesday morning, I believe at 9:00 am. That is one of the issues that I will report to them on. There is a meeting of Cabinet on Tuesday evening and that is one of the issues we will be deliberating upon decisions on the contents of that document and the discussion that took place in committee of the whole yesterday, will be made next week as to how this thing will be addressed, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Question 158-12(7): H&ss Budget Supplement Document
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Mr. Speaker, I made a Member's statement about social assistance recipients. Now, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Social Services about the procedures for converting cheques to cash, especially for people with children. They only convert a small amount. There are responsible people out there who do not misuse these funds. What are the reasons for making just a certain amount cashable? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Health and Social Services, Madam Premier.

Return To Question 159-12(7): Issuance Of Social Assistance Cheques
Question 159-12(7): Issuance Of Social Assistance Cheques
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the social assistance regulations for issuance of assistance include that cash can be made payable to the recipient; jointly to the recipient and the supplier; to the supplier on behalf of the recipient; or, to a trustee. On the issuing of a voucher, this is left to the discretion of the worker, the person who deals with the client. It is done in consultation with the person who is receiving the social assistance. In that regard, the cheque is usually issued to the supplier -- and this could be at the request of the client -- if there is evidence that the client is unable to manage the money when the money is being used for the care and feeding of children, or as recommended by the hamlet and regional councils. So there is a degree of

flexibility about how social assistance can be issued. Thank you.

Return To Question 159-12(7): Issuance Of Social Assistance Cheques
Question 159-12(7): Issuance Of Social Assistance Cheques
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Pudlat.

Supplementary To Question 159-12(7): Issuance Of Social Assistance Cheques
Question 159-12(7): Issuance Of Social Assistance Cheques
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So, it is at the discretion of the community and social worker whether social assistance will be issued by voucher or cash. Do I understand that it is at the discretion of the social worker? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 159-12(7): Issuance Of Social Assistance Cheques
Question 159-12(7): Issuance Of Social Assistance Cheques
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Ms. Cournoyea.

Further Return To Question 159-12(7): Issuance Of Social Assistance Cheques
Question 159-12(7): Issuance Of Social Assistance Cheques
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the discretion is exercised with the worker and the client.

Further Return To Question 159-12(7): Issuance Of Social Assistance Cheques
Question 159-12(7): Issuance Of Social Assistance Cheques
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Question 160-12(7): Assessments Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health and Social Services. In the past, Mr. Speaker, we have heard a lot of discussion about the problem of fetal alcohol syndrome and fetal alcohol effects in this House. Many northerners, both in this House and out, have expressed concern about how many young people may be affected by these disorders. However, Mr. Speaker, the symptoms of FAS/FAE-related disorders have much in common with many other kinds of disabilities. My question to the Minister is, is it commonly accepted that teachers or parents can accurately assess whether a child is affected by FAS or FAE and the extent of their disorder?

Question 160-12(7): Assessments Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Health and Social Services, Madam Premier.

Return To Question 160-12(7): Assessments Of Fas/fae
Question 160-12(7): Assessments Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I don't believe it is common or very easy to do, if that is what the Member is implying. I don't believe that's the case. In some cases, FAS is more apparent and FAE is less apparent. These assessments are not easily made, as originally stated by some professional people. These assessments really have to be done in cooperation with the medical profession. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 160-12(7): Assessments Of Fas/fae
Question 160-12(7): Assessments Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 160-12(7): Assessments Of Fas/fae
Question 160-12(7): Assessments Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, unless we know the extent of a problem, it is difficult to deal with it. The Minister has just indicated that, typically, lay people cannot diagnose FAS or FAE disorders. Some level of expertise is required. However, Mr. Speaker, last fall the government rejected the need for a professional survey of individuals in an area in the north in order to provide a baseline study on the extent of FAS and FAE in the north. Instead, the Minister told this House that the department would rely on a household survey being conducted by the bureau of statistics. Mr. Speaker, the Minister has just confirmed that the only accurate assessment of FAS and FAE disorders is through professional diagnosis. Could the Minister advise this House how this household survey will provide accurate baseline information regarding the extent of FAS and FAE in the north?

Supplementary To Question 160-12(7): Assessments Of Fas/fae
Question 160-12(7): Assessments Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Ms. Cournoyea.

Supplementary To Question 160-12(7): Assessments Of Fas/fae
Question 160-12(7): Assessments Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I will take the question as notice. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 160-12(7): Assessments Of Fas/fae
Question 160-12(7): Assessments Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The question is taken as notice. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask a question to the Minister of Renewable Resources. Mr. Speaker, with regard to the Hanging Ice Bison Ranch that the department takes care of, I would like to ask the Minister if it is the department officials who operate the ranch or do they get any advice from any other groups in Fort Smith? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Return To Question 161-12(7): Operation Of Hanging Ice Bison Ranch
Question 161-12(7): Operation Of Hanging Ice Bison Ranch
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe that the person who has been working at the Hanging Ice Bison Ranch is a manager who has worked with bison in Alberta over a number of years -- in particular, in the Wood Bison National Park -- and has been dealing with bison for many years of his life. I think he is very capable of managing the ranch in Fort Smith.

As far as consulting with groups in Fort Smith, I believe that they have been working with the sustainable development committee in the town of Fort Smith. Whether any further contact with people in the community of Fort Smith has been made, I don't know. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 161-12(7): Operation Of Hanging Ice Bison Ranch
Question 161-12(7): Operation Of Hanging Ice Bison Ranch
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 161-12(7): Operation Of Hanging Ice Bison Ranch
Question 161-12(7): Operation Of Hanging Ice Bison Ranch
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you. Since the Minister doesn't know particularly, I would like to ask whether or not the Minister would endeavour to find out whether or not there is a management group to oversee the Hanging Ice Bison Ranch in addition to the sustainable development committee that is assisting through the town of Fort Smith. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 161-12(7): Operation Of Hanging Ice Bison Ranch
Question 161-12(7): Operation Of Hanging Ice Bison Ranch
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Further Return To Question 161-12(7): Operation Of Hanging Ice Bison Ranch
Question 161-12(7): Operation Of Hanging Ice Bison Ranch
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I will.

Further Return To Question 161-12(7): Operation Of Hanging Ice Bison Ranch
Question 161-12(7): Operation Of Hanging Ice Bison Ranch
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. It is with regard to the mining accord. Mr. Speaker, it's my belief that if we don't get a mining accord before the next election, there will not be a mining accord. We will be in the division mode. The federal government, by that time, will be looking very greedily at whatever revenues will come out of mines. So one chance, I think, to provide self-sufficiency in the Northwest Territories is to get a mining accord. My question to the Minister is, when does he expect the negotiations for a mining accord to be concluded?

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let me say to the honourable Member up front that the mineral accord is a priority of this Cabinet, of the Premier and myself, as the Minister responsible. We are endeavouring, through consultation with the aboriginal groups, to try -- and I stress "try" -- to reach a consensus as to what should be included in the accord. There are two meetings that have taken place. Everybody has come to the table and stated their opinions. In an ideal world, I would like to think we can conclude an accord prior to the call for a new election. Whether, in fact, we will is a difficult question to answer at this time. Thank you.

Return To Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Supplementary To Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Minister, it seems right now that the federal government is open to the concept of a mining accord. The Premier has established a good relationship with the Prime Minister. All the potential is there right now, and I guess I want to ask the Minister if he can undertake and give a commitment to this House that he will do everything possible to conclude a mining accord before the election, which is, theoretically, going to happen in the fall. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, assuming there is no call for an early election and we do look to October 15th, I am optimistic that we have given this issue top priority for a variety of reasons and both the Finance Minister and the Premier have spoken to them on a number of occasions. I am optimistic that the will is there to reach an arrangement at our level. I have met with the Minister of Indian Affairs directly and asked them to view this as a priority. He has indicated to me, and I believe to other Ministers, that he's prepared to do that. So the optimist in me says that assuming we can reach a reasonable arrangement that is broadly supported in the Northwest Territories, we should hopefully be able to come to a satisfactory conclusion, hopefully by the fall. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Supplementary To Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

My last question. Some Members have talked about the possibility of an early election and I want to ask the Minister if it would be possible for the Minister to conclude the northern accord or mining accord by June of this year. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

John Todd Keewatin Central

I don't think it would be possible at this time to conclude an arrangement by mid-June of this year. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Question 162-12(7): Status Of Negotiations Re Mining Accord
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Safety and Public Services. There is a lot of talk, especially during the budget reviews, of ways of increasing revenues to this government. Early in the term of this Cabinet, one of the initiatives for looking at increasing revenues was to look at the gambling and lottery initiatives in the way that we are licensing and to maybe review that whole initiative. My question to the Minister is what current initiatives are being looked at to increase revenues from gambling and lottery activities?

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Safety and Public Services, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just to indicate that the whole matter of the gaming initiatives is not on at this particular time. When the matter began as a matter of public discussion, we began to, I believe, receive some very significant criticism from a number of leaders -- particularly the

community leadership and the church leadership -- about the consequences of opening up this particular matter. So we took the position that it wasn't an issue that should be dealt with at this particular juncture.

Return To Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you. So I understand then, from the Minister's comments, that whatever reviews and activities looked at to amend the gaming regulations are now stopped. Can the Minister confirm that there is no further activity being done in that regard?

Supplementary To Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, that is correct. We are not pursuing this matter at this particular time. I want to advise the honourable Member, however, that we did do a number of analyses about the potential for this particular matter. The potential looked good. The issue was one of political decision-making and the fact was that there was some criticism. Whether or not you are prepared to take the challenge of the consequences of this, is the issue.

Further Return To Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi. Is that a Cabinet decision to cease any further investigations and review of licensing and increasing revenues from gaming activities?

Supplementary To Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, it is not my decision. I took the matter to Cabinet, the decision in Cabinet was that we not pursue this particular matter. The decision was made in July 1994.

Further Return To Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Question 163-12(7): Current Initiatives To Increase Revenues From Gaming
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health and Social Services referred to a community action fund in its discussion regarding the budget, and from the unedited Hansard the context is: "That is why the social envelope Ministers" -- this is reading from the unedited Hansard -- "recommended a community action fund to help community groups test their ideas." The reason for that is "...there is a need to try new approaches to deal with priorities in areas such as family violence, early intervention and services to youth." It also says : "The viability of such a fund and the means of raising the money need to be discussed." With that, can the Minister of Finance tell us exactly what is involved in this community action fund? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, if I could just go back to the envelope process. What we decided this year during the budget process was to put groups of departments together who had similar interests. We decided in the Social Envelope Committee that those departments, in all probability, are dealing with the same client. We were looking for some efficiency in that particular envelope because if we got all of those people around the table working together, we felt that there would be some efficiencies and we would be better able to save dollars and service the same clientele and not have any overlap and duplication.

From the Social Envelope Committee, flowed this document that suggested a community wellness fund. It does bring the same kind of cooperation back to the community level and I think that was the purpose of the document; to explain that to the Standing Committee on Finance. So the idea comes from the Social Envelope Committee and it is to work together at the community level for community wellness. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The government has referred to this as a "fund" or a "plan." There seems to be one important element that is missing; namely, the identification of funds. In the unedited Hansard, they make references to such a fund and raising this money. Can the Minister explain what initiatives the government is taking to identify funding for this plan or this fund? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, the Financial Management Board has not yet given approval for this initiative to go ahead. The Financial Management Board probably will not make that decision until such time as there is some agreement on where this $3.2 or $3.4 million is going to come from. I have some ideas on that, particularly on that amount of funding. I will be bringing that to the meeting on Tuesday evening, at which, Cabinet is going to discuss this issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With that, does the Minister intend to introduce a supplementary appropriation to fund this community action fund if he is successful in convincing his colleagues on the Financial Management Board? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, the community wellness fund has yet to be discussed at Cabinet level or at the Financial Management Board level, so if there is agreement that the initiative should proceed, then my question to the Members of that particular board is going to be, where do we get the money from. They are going to say to me, well, what do you suggest. So if there is agreement that the fund is required because FMB says this program is required, and if we can reach agreement on how to raise those funds or where to get that money from then, yes, we would propose bringing that issue back to the floor of this House and amending the budget or department somehow so that it is reflected in the 1995-96 budget. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Your final supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is amazing that the government would suggest a plan without providing means for funding it. I recognize that the government is in a very difficult situation trying to balance expenditures and revenues, but I don't think it's appropriate for government to bring up a program without proposing a means of funding it. Can the Minister explain why means of funding the community action fund were not included in the budget? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, the program is not in this budget. It is not in the documents before this House. It was a reaction from the social envelope committee to questions about how you are going to deal with these particular issues in communities. It was a way of showing the Standing Committee on Finance a way of addressing these problems. But, certainly, the program hasn't been adopted. It is not in the budget and it is not intended to be delivered at this particular time. Although we know that it is something that a lot of the Members in this House want to have happen, we know that it is something that communities want to have happen, but it is certainly not there at the present time. Until such time as there is agreement on (a), the program; and, (b), where the funding comes from, it will not be brought back to the floor of the House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Question 164-12(7): Status Of Community Action Fund
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier. Mr. Speaker, we all know last year that the Cabinet made a decision to allow negotiation of the Dene-Metis Holdings to address fire suppression. And when that decision was made in August -- specifically, August 10, 1994 -- a time frame of 90 days was granted. Could the Premier advise this House who determined the 90-day time frame? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Return To Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, it was a Cabinet decision.

Return To Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could I ask the Premier as to why 90 days was used? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I would have to go back to the discussion paper, but the 90 days -- if my recollection is correct -- is sufficient time for a person to prepare and come back with the proposal. So it was in the general limits of what is normally allowed to give adequate time for the proponent to come forward with a proposal. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Recognizing the proposal that Cabinet wanted developed was to address the multi-million dollar contracts -- specifically, in excess of $5 million -- I would like to ask the Premier, was there any

consideration for an extension of 90 days prior to the decision being made? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Supplementary To Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I will have to take that question as notice. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Question 165-12(7): Authorization For 90-day Time Frame Re Fire Suppression Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The question is taken as notice. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Health and Social Services, but before I pose the question, I think the call for an early election by some affiliates is, in my mind, downright conniving. Thank you. Mr. Speaker, the Minister has indicated that the government is waiting for the results of the birthing project in Rankin Inlet before making a decision on the Taloyoak project. Under what circumstances would the government consider proceeding with the Taloyoak birthing centre before the Rankin Inlet review is complete? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. I would just like to remind Members that question period is for questions and not for statements. Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Cournoyea.

Return To Question 166-12(7): Birthing Centre For Taloyoak
Question 166-12(7): Birthing Centre For Taloyoak
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 291

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I believe even though the Rankin Inlet project evaluation has not been done, we are talking to the health interest group in Taloyoak on how that could happen. So, even though that assessment hasn't been done, we are in the process of trying to understand what the community wants to do so we would be ahead of the game. These things take some time and discussion. In the Kitikmeot region, there are some health facilities which are presently being either renovated or redone. I feel it is appropriate to have the discussions along with health planning for that region. It is not as though we are not discussing it just because an assessment hasn't been concluded. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 166-12(7): Birthing Centre For Taloyoak
Question 166-12(7): Birthing Centre For Taloyoak
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 291

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 166-12(7): Birthing Centre For Taloyoak
Question 166-12(7): Birthing Centre For Taloyoak
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 291

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. If the Rankin review is positive, Mr. Speaker, will the Minister guarantee that Taloyoak will be the next community considered for a birthing centre? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 166-12(7): Birthing Centre For Taloyoak
Question 166-12(7): Birthing Centre For Taloyoak
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 291

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Ms. Cournoyea.

Further Return To Question 166-12(7): Birthing Centre For Taloyoak
Question 166-12(7): Birthing Centre For Taloyoak
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 291

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I believe there are a couple of other communities that are also interested in a birthing centre. Yes, I will commit, but I can't guarantee. The fact is we are discussing with the community right now on how we can proceed or what has to be done to have a birthing unit in Taloyoak. So it is really next on the list because it is happening right now. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 166-12(7): Birthing Centre For Taloyoak
Question 166-12(7): Birthing Centre For Taloyoak
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 291

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Honourable Kelvin Ng my first question. First of all, I would like to congratulate him for being in the Cabinet now. Working with him on the Standing Committee on Finance, I'm sure he'll be a good Minister. Speaking of SCOF, I certainly hope he still stands behind all the motions he supported as a Member.

---Laughter

Especially to my communities.

---Laughter

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 167-12(7): Status Of Settlement Operating And Assistance Policies
Question 167-12(7): Status Of Settlement Operating And Assistance Policies
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 291

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, it is the policy that Mr. Antoine and other Members of this House have been pursuing over the last couple of years. It is the settlement operating and capital assistance policy that is meant to bring a fair and equitable allocation and distribution of funding to smaller communities. The policy itself was approved by Cabinet yesterday and there will be a submission made to the Financial Management Board for the allocation and finalization of dollars to implement the policy. Thank you.

Return To Question 167-12(7): Status Of Settlement Operating And Assistance Policies
Question 167-12(7): Status Of Settlement Operating And Assistance Policies
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 291

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 167-12(7): Status Of Settlement Operating And Assistance Policies
Question 167-12(7): Status Of Settlement Operating And Assistance Policies
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 291

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank Members of the Cabinet for their support of small communities. It has been a long time in coming and I'm sure that members of the small communities, who have been operating on very limited funds, will be quite happy about this program. With that, I would like to ask the Minister how soon this program will be in place and when will the communities start seeing the additional funding support? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 167-12(7): Status Of Settlement Operating And Assistance Policies
Question 167-12(7): Status Of Settlement Operating And Assistance Policies
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 291

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 167-12(7): Status Of Settlement Operating And Assistance Policies
Question 167-12(7): Status Of Settlement Operating And Assistance Policies
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 291

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is anticipated that if FMB approves the reallocation of additional dollars to establish the policy, it will be in effect on April 1st of this current year. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 167-12(7): Status Of Settlement Operating And Assistance Policies
Question 167-12(7): Status Of Settlement Operating And Assistance Policies
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 291

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I made a short statement about the subsidiary taxes on gasoline. The taxes reflect whether or not the purchase or delivery of gasoline is on-road or off-road. I think there is a limitation of five kilometres or something in the regulations. The concern is that the majority of hunters, fishermen, trappers and other people who pursue traditional lifestyles, buy the gas in town at gas pumps and use the gas out somewhere else. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance whether any consideration has been given to giving reduced rates or reducing the taxes for people who purchase gas and use it on other than on-road systems?

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 292

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, it is not under active consideration at this time.

Return To Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 292

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 292

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi. One of the things I was led to believe is that it was an initiative of this government to support hunters and trappers and people pursuing healthy, traditional lifestyles. I wonder why this current Cabinet is not looking at providing tax breaks for people pursuing those lifestyles.

Supplementary To Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 292

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 292

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, we really believe that we are providing a great deal of assistance to hunters and trappers. It costs us more than $1 million to pick up their WCB contributions. We have support programs out there. The Minister of Renewable Resources has a new program this year for price support with regard to fur. There is a wildlife harvesters' income support program for people in the Nunavut territory. The same applies in the western Arctic, there are all kinds of other available programs to hunters and trappers through Renewable Resources where we give them assistance. So I think we are trying, as best we can, to support that traditional lifestyle and enable those people to continue to earn their living from the land.

With regard to the taxation, Mr. Speaker...Mr. Ballantyne, the irony is that I asked the same question as Mr. Koe asked. I think in 1989 I asked the question. Mr. Ballantyne did undertake to look at this particular issue and it was determined that if we were to use coloured gas or some other form of identifying these particular products, it would be administratively costly for the government and also for the retailers who are selling those particular products. So I think that Mr. Ballantyne managed to convince me at that time that it was as good as we could get it at the present time, and the bringing in of coloured fuels, et cetera, et cetera, just would not make economic sense with our small population. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 292

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 292

Fred Koe Inuvik

Can I ask the Minister whether or not he is looking at, or considering, in one of his tax revenue initiatives to increase the taxes on prices of gasoline?

Supplementary To Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 292

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 292

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, obviously you look at everything when you are looking at if you are going to have to raise revenues. One of the areas that we are not looking at, at the present time, is an increase in gasoline taxes or an increase in heating fuel taxes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Question 168-12(7): Reduction Of Gas Tax For Off-road Users
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 292

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

Question 169-12(7): Licensing Of Cb Radios
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 292

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have mentioned before under Members' statements, and I also raised a question to the Minister of Renewable Resources, with regard to the radios; this has been a concern to my constituents. The Minister responded that he would check with the federal department who looks after issuing the licences for these CB radios. Did he get a reply? Thank you.

Question 169-12(7): Licensing Of Cb Radios
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 292

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Return To Question 169-12(7): Licensing Of Cb Radios
Question 169-12(7): Licensing Of Cb Radios
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 292

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

(Translation) The question that my colleague is raising, I have checked into. I gave him a written reply that the federal government Department of Communications would be able to look into this. Thank you.

Return To Question 169-12(7): Licensing Of Cb Radios
Question 169-12(7): Licensing Of Cb Radios
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 292

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Item 7, written questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my written question is to the Premier. Dene Metis Holdings requested numerous times for an extension to the government regarding the provision of aircraft firefighting services.

Would the Premier advise this House as to why the government did not respond in any manner to the Dene Metis Holdings request to formally extend negotiations? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, replies to budget address. Mr. Lewis.

Item 10: Replies To Budget Address
Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

Page 293

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Lewis's Reply

Item 10: Replies To Budget Address
Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

Page 293

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is an address in response to our Finance Minister's budget address. There may be other Members, too, who would be interested in what I have to say.

Mr. Speaker, when times are tough, it is not easy to be a Finance Minister. Since we depend on the Government of Canada for 72 per cent of our budget, any dilution of federal contributions really hurts us. We have had four successive years of deficit budgets. This is a reflection of unforeseeable expenditures, but mostly because of federal refusal to meet its commitments and also because of additional cutbacks.

Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, I would like to report to you, a second person contacted me to join the lobby for a spring election. Members will recall that on Monday I had indicated the public was suspicious about rumblings for a spring election. People like to have very good, solid reasons for the things we do here. Well, Mr. Speaker, a very well-known Fort Smith consultant supplied me yesterday, with a good, solid reason people seem to be searching for. He indicated that four successive annual deficit budgets should be a good enough reason for a vote of non-confidence in this government.

Mr. Speaker, I have been a big supporter of balanced budgets. During the 11th Assembly, on a few occasions, I did compliment the then-Minister of Finance, Mr. Ballantyne. It was to compliment him on keeping under control some of the trigger-happy Members of the Cabinet who wanted to borrow a few hundred dollars to build needed infrastructure. There are some Members here who will recall that. So he must be blushing that today, at least, I compliment him for keeping that expenditure under control while he was the Minister of Finance.

The pressure was resisted, Mr. Speaker, and we now have a fiscal position as a government which, although it proposes a small deficit, most provinces would envy the position we find ourselves in. Our deficit is not the horror show some would like to make it out to be. Some Members are now waiting until next week to see whether Mr. Martin's budget will have a major impact on us, before they reply to the budget address. Members should be aware that for this budget we have before us, there is an agreement for the next fiscal year that there are no changes in our formula funding agreement.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say, unconditionally, that I have confidence in the Minister of Finance. He has done a very good job in very difficult times and I fully support him and his efforts in managing our fiscal affairs.

One of the problems in our system is that it is very difficult to construct a budget that can be anything more than a survival budget. Restraint -- and the document is very clear on this -- is the main fiscal objective. Nevertheless, there are signs of shaping our priorities under the envelope system. The emphasis on developing our human resources is very welcome because without this major economic development, we really remain an empty promise, we really need a well-trained workforce in order to take advantage of our economic potential.

Protection of our health and social network is also an objective in this budget, although I know Members would like to see it expanded.

One aspect that I find inconsistent, however, is the clear message that we must be prepared to be more self-reliant. Yet this budget contains several measures that will curtail, rather than advance, our economic development. It is no good to say that it was the envelope committee that made me do it. If we are truly to become more self-reliant, the economy needs a boost and not a kick in the pants, Mr. Speaker. We all know that these various fees that are being levied and proposed or increased are really hidden taxes. And the Minister can expect some debate on this particular aspect of his budget.

I have one more final appeal to make to this government, Mr. Speaker; and Mr. Ballantyne and others have all ready referred to it. Without some kind of northern agreement, a northern accord or mineral agreement, the north is doomed. I am not just talking about this government, I am talking about all northerners. Whatever level of government we are talking about, we are doomed; simply because unless we get some way of which we can generate our own wealth, we are going to be squeezing water out of the same stones. Unless we can get more to do to create more wealth, we are going to be stuck where we are and we are going to die the death of a thousand cuts.

As other Members have pointed out, Confederation is continually changing. Provinces will control more and more of their own destinies. I don't believe, however, that Quebec will separate. In fact, I'm confident of it. But the demands of Quebec will be altered by other provinces, as well, and will be echoed throughout the country as each province wants to have the same. This will directly affect the role of the federal government.

We've already felt the effect of federal cutbacks. We can't expect them to continue, over the next few years, to provide us with the kinds of services that we have automatically come to expect, as we were still under the wardship or the guardianship of the federal government.

In my opinion, Mr. Speaker, it would pay all northerners to urge Mr. Todd -- because he's a key player in this -- to get this accord signed this summer. I know that many people are afraid of it or are concerned about it, but there are many other groups that are afraid of whatever motives there may be and whether they are good or bad. But the overall motive should be to provide some kind of protection for all northerners so we're not stuck as a have-not with no potential to grow and no potential to reduce our reliance on the federal government.

That's why we need this summer, Mr. Speaker, it's absolutely essential. We need this summer for Mr. Todd and his colleagues, where they don't have the continual pressure all the time to do this and to do that, to set some priorities to get us in good shape so as we go into the next fiscal year, in 1996, we know that at least we have some degree of certainty about where our future is going to lie.

Item 10: Replies To Budget Address
Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

Page 294

An Hon. Member

Hear, hear.

Item 10: Replies To Budget Address
Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

Page 294

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Diamonds are important, very important, as Mr. Ballantyne continually points out. But without an accord, we remain just bit players, just not very important at all. Unless we have an agreement as to how we're going to develop, it's meaningless. All the activity is meaningless to us if we continue to have the same kind of dependence on the federal government.

I would also urge Mr. Todd -- and I can't stress this enough, Mr. Speaker, because it's another part of the equation -- to make sure we have in place a sustainable development policy. Because if we don't have that, the north will continue to be a battleground where the environmentalists and the industrialists are going to be fighting it out and there are going to be groups from all over the world wanting to join in the fray because we don't have our act together. We should have a policy on sustainable development so that I can say, no, I'm not an environmentalist, I am a person who supports sustainable development. I'm in favour of development, like everybody else, but it can't be a battleground any more, where we have armies fighting against each other on each side of the equation. If we don't get this accord and we don't get a sustainable development policy, the federal government knows quite well now as it sits there with a huge proposal in front of it, that the challenge it faces is to get some headway in helping development in our part of the world without doing it in a way that will antagonize the World Wildlife Fund and the Sierra Club and all the other groups around the world that are just waiting for the chance to jump in. So we should support all those initiatives right now to do those two things: the northern accord of one kind or another, whatever we can get that makes sense to us; and also, a sustainable development policy so we don't end up having huge fights up here which nobody wants and will be debilitating and I think will end up destroying all the good efforts that we've made to date. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Item 10: Replies To Budget Address
Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

Page 294

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Item 10, replies to budget address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Mr. Pollard.

Item 14: Tabling Of Documents
Item 14: Tabling Of Documents

Page 294

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table Tabled Document 22-12(7), the Public Accounts for the Northwest Territories, 1993-94, volumes I and II, Consolidated and Non-Consolidated Financial Statements for the year ended March 31, 1994. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 14: Tabling Of Documents
Item 14: Tabling Of Documents

Page 294

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. As required, I would like to table Tabled Document 23-12(7), the Consolidated Financial Statement of the Government of the Northwest Territories for the year ending March 31, 1994, as reported by the Auditor General of Canada.

Item 14, tabling of documents. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions: Motion 10-12(7), Impact of Federal Gun Control

Legislation, will stand down until Monday. Item 18, first reading of bills. Ms. Cournoyea.

Bill 17: An Act To Amend The Nursing Profession Act
Item 18: First Reading Of Bills

Page 294

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Hay River, that Bill 17, an Act to Amend the Nursing Profession Act, be read for the first time.

Bill 17: An Act To Amend The Nursing Profession Act
Item 18: First Reading Of Bills

Page 294

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Bill 17: An Act To Amend The Nursing Profession Act
Item 18: First Reading Of Bills

Page 294

An Hon. Member

Question.

Bill 17: An Act To Amend The Nursing Profession Act
Item 18: First Reading Of Bills

Page 294

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question has been called. All those in favour? We don't have a quorum. Can the Clerk ring the bells, please?

The Speaker recognizes a quorum. We have a motion on the floor on Bill 17. To the motion.

Bill 17: An Act To Amend The Nursing Profession Act
Item 18: First Reading Of Bills

Page 294

An Hon. Member

Question.

Bill 17: An Act To Amend The Nursing Profession Act
Item 18: First Reading Of Bills

Page 294

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 17 has had first reading. Item 18, first reading of bills. Mr. Kakfwi.

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, that Bill 16, an Act to Amend the Retirement Plan Beneficiaries Act, be read for the first time.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

An Hon. Member

Question.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 16 has had first reading. Item 18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96; Committee Report 2-12(7), Report on the Legislative Action Paper on the Office of Ombudsman for the Northwest Territories; Committee Report 3-12(7), Report on the Review of the Legislative Action Paper Proposing New Heritage Legislation for the Northwest Territories; and, Committee Report 4-12(7), Report on the Review of the 1995-96 Main Estimates, with Mr. Lewis in the chair.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 295

The Chair Brian Lewis

I will call the committee to order. We are on item 20, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. What would the committee like to do? Mr. Dent.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 295

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to recommend to the committee that we continue with Committee Report 4-12(7) and Bill 1.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 295

The Chair Brian Lewis

Are you all agreed?

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 295

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 295

The Chair Brian Lewis

I will call a short break so the committee can have some breakfast.

---SHORT RECESS

Department Of Health And Social Services

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 295

The Chair Brian Lewis

I would like to call the committee back to order. We were dealing with the Department of Health and Social Services and we were on general comments. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 295

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, in order to give the Minister of Finance a chance to come forward with some funding to handle the budget supplement that we were discussing when we were last talking about Health and Social Services yesterday, I move that we defer consideration of Health and Social Services at this time.

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 295

The Chair Brian Lewis

The motion is in order and it is not debatable. To the motion.

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 295

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 295

The Chair Brian Lewis

All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion to defer this item is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 295

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I would like to recommend that the committee move to consider the budget of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources.

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 295

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you very much, Mr. Dent. Do Members agree that we go on to that department?

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 295

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Energy, Mines And Petroleum Resources

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 295

The Chair Brian Lewis

There being no objections, we will move on to that department. Mr. Todd is the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. It is item 13 in your book. Do you have any opening comments, Mr. Todd?

Minister's Introductory Remarks

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 295

John Todd Keewatin Central

Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman, if I may. For the 1995-96 year, the department's proposed budget is $910,000 higher than the current year. This proposed increase responds to the increased importance of mineral development to the GNWT. It will help ensure that this government and our communities are prepared to take advantage of the opportunities created by mineral activity.

Part of the proposed new funding will be used to support a small community geology program, under which information and expert advice will be provided to communities about mineral development activities and potential, to provide technical assistance for prospectors, and to advise local mineral development opportunities. Additional funds are also being allocated to devolution activities.

The department is actively pursuing the northern accord, and with the assistance of the Department of Economic Development and Tourism, it is working with aboriginal organizations to redraft our northern accord proposal to the federal government. We hope to begin formal negotiations with the federal government in June of this year.

Despite last summer's poor results from one of the underground bulk sampling projects for diamonds, investor confidence remains strong. Mineral exploration activity is expected to continue at high levels for the foreseeable future. It is anticipated that at least three companies will be bulk sampling for diamonds in 1995. One of these projects is under way and two are in the permitting stage. An exciting new diamond discovery in the Keewatin was recently announced. BHP is undergoing a full public review of its NWT diamonds project and is now proposing to mine five kimberlite pipes over a 25-year time period, starting as early as 1997.

The NWT is about to become a major producer of diamonds. This is a tremendous opportunity for our small jurisdiction and I am committed to ensuring that this government and the residents of the NWT obtain maximum long-term benefits from this new industry. Another new mine, Athabasca Resources' Nicholas Lake project, is scheduled to be brought into production this year.

San Andreas Resources Corporation is working on a feasibility study on the development of the Prairie Creek base metals project. If the study is positive, the company hopes to bring the property into production during the latter part of 1996. The minerals initiatives program represents a large portion of the department's budget. This is a five-year program which is funded under the Canada-NWT economic development agreement. A total of 70 per cent of the expenditures from the minerals initiative program are recovered from the federal government. So, 1995-96 is the last year of the current minerals agreement.

Oil and gas activity will resume in the NWT this year. In addition to the long-awaited approval of the Norman Wells expansion project, the federal government has initiated oil and gas exploration rights issuances in the Fort Liard area and in the Sahtu region. These rights issuances have been well received by the industry and will provide important economic benefits to the local communities. With devolution, the GNWT would be able to manage and promote environmentally responsible oil and gas activity. In the meantime, however, Mr. Chairman, these responsibilities will continue to be delivered by federal agencies.

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you very much, Mr. Todd. The Standing Committee on Finance has reviewed this department. Mr. Dent.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On behalf of the Standing Committee on Finance, I would like to present the remarks of the committee on the Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources budget. The Department of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources is a small department with very important responsibilities, given the current mineral exploration and renewed interest in some oil and gas areas. We note the efforts of the department to work closely with other departments, especially Economic Development and Tourism, Transportation, and Renewable Resources, and encourage a continuation of this cooperative approach.

Minerals Accord/Northern Accord

The committee continues to strongly support the department's efforts in trying to finalize devolution of management of minerals and oil and gas from the federal government. Members agree with the Minister when he stated: "There is a sense of urgency to get the accord in place and put the responsibility where it belongs: in the hands of northerners."

To ensure all northerners have a clear understanding of what is being negotiated, there has been increased involvement of concerned aboriginal governments in the process, since aboriginal governments have benefits and revenues from and jurisdiction over these resources in parts of the Northwest Territories. At a territorial level, discussions now revolve around working together for control of oil, gas and minerals by the people in the north. Committee Members hope to see the Government of the Northwest Territories, aboriginal governments, and all northerners work together to ensure that development of these resources brings the maximum net benefit to the people of the north.

The committee hopes that this particular aspect of devolution will finally be completed as soon as possible after about eight years of negotiations. The completion of this process will mean that northerners will be able to control the development of the non-renewable resources of the north. There are numerous benefits to be realized: increased northern employment; more northern control over the environmental impact of mines and oil and gas projects; and, increased revenues to northerners which will reduce dependence on the federal government.

Committee Members agree with the Minister of Finance that there must be a balance between profits for shareholders in mining and oil and gas ventures, and net benefits for northerners. Members also agree that devolution of management of these resources to northerners is critical to achieving that balance. Last year, the committee recommended that this department: "involve concerned aboriginal groups and finalize the devolution of responsibility for minerals and oil and gas from the federal government." Only through devolution can northerners be assured of finding that balance.

Community Prospecting Program

During the past year, there have been some small efforts to fund a community prospecting program, through the minerals section of the economic development agreement. It is important to find ways for northerners to become involved in the mineral development happening on their land. As one Member noted, the community prospecting program, "is another small way of getting northern people involved in what is a very important spin-off of resource development." Committee Members welcome this initiative.

Presentation To The Environmental Assessment Review Panel

Mr. Chairman, in the past there were occasions where government departments made different and, at times, contradictory presentations before federal panels. The committee strongly recommends that a unified approach be taken for the government's presentation to the Environmental Assessment Review Panel considering BHP's application to develop a diamond mine. Having both the Department of Renewable Resources and the Department of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources work as partners on the presentation and, even more importantly, on answering the questions of the panel and intervenors should provide a strong territorial voice in the process. It also reflects the important balance which is key to the government's position; support for development which is consistent with the aspirations of northerners and is done in an environmentally and economically sound way.

Mr. Chairman, that concludes the opening remarks of the Standing Committee on Finance. Thank you.

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thanks very much. Mr. Todd, since we're going to be dealing with your budget, do you need some help?

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair Brian Lewis

The Minister would like to have some strangers come into our Chamber. What does the committee feel? Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Sergeant-at-Arms, bring the witnesses into our Chamber, please.

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Maybe you could introduce your witness for us.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my immediate right is Mr. Graham Nicholls, who is the deputy minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources.

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you very much. Any general comments on this department? General comments? Mr. Ballantyne.

General Comments

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I have a few comments I would like to make about this particular department. I'm generally quite supportive of the approach that the department is taking. I, probably ad nauseam, have made a number of observations from my own point of view in this House about what's happening in the country and how we really have to find new sources of revenue. I've talked about the Quebec situation. Whatever way it goes, whether Quebec stays in or goes out, there's going to be a new look at how the federation is put together and there's going to be a lessening of the federal government's power.

There's a lot of talk about the federal government turning over to the provinces block funding for health and social services and education, which again lessens the federal government's power.

My fear is that if we don't get as many powers and as many responsibilities and as much control over our resources as possible in the next very short period of time, I don't want to predict what the future is going to be like for the Northwest Territories. Because those in the territories who think it's going to stay the same as it is now are wrong, absolutely wrong. I want to be on the record now when history looks back at this time when we had an opportunity to do something, that I said very strongly we should do something, that we have to move ahead, we can't sit on our hands and we can't pretend that the world is staying the same.

I, for one, even though politicians are afraid to say it, support mining exploration, I support mining, I support utilizing our oil and gas reserves here in the Northwest Territories. I think it's critical that all of us have to look at utilizing these resources, because without them we have nothing; we're a welfare state; we're irrelevant.

I, for one, commend the Minister on the approach he's taking. What I would like to say is that the debate about mining is done at an absolutely ridiculous level. There is one group that says if you support mining you're against the environment; that's nonsense, it's absolute nonsense, this is the 1990s. We're not talking about developing mines the way we did in the 1950s or the 1960s. A modern mine with all the environmental technology can have a minimal impact on the environment of our land.

So this is not a matter of either you're for mining or you're against mining. I, for one, am for responsible mining. I think that distinction has to be made. It's like you're put in one camp or the other. You're either for it or you're against it. It's absolutely ridiculous. We have to have mining up here. We don't have other forms of revenue. Therefore, if you acknowledge that as the basic premise, the second premise is we will make the mining companies use the most modern environmental technology possible. It's a given.

So I hope that whenever we debate this in the House you can be both; you can be pro-mining and you can be pro-new environmental technology. You can do both, and I have no problem saying I'm supportive.

I was just at a conference in Vancouver and talked to a lot of the exploration people who work here in the Northwest Territories. The word I'm getting from most of them is they're really fed up and frustrated. There are so many different groups they have to deal with up here. The federal government...and who knows if they're for or against mining.

Our government has some responsibility in some areas, but it doesn't have responsibility in other areas. There are discussions on division, discussions on self-government. All these discussions, all these initiatives are important and they have to happen, but in the meantime the investment potential in the Northwest Territories is right now being looked at with somewhat of a jaundiced eye. So I think we should be very aware of that.

At the end of the day, I think that it's possible for all of us here in the Northwest Territories to pursue legitimate goals whether they're self-government goals, whether it's the goal of division, whether it's the goal of putting together a public government here in the west. But at the same time, we all have to agree that in order to finance all of these good ideas we need investment dollars and we're going to need mining. There's no doubt about it. So I think all of us should agree that we are going to work together to allow development to go ahead, development that takes note of the environment and uses the modern technology available now to mining. But we can't sit on our hands and say let's wait until we figure it all out up here, because it may be another decade. By that time, I tell you, there ain't going to be nobody coming up here. And once they're out of here, exploration money goes anywhere in the world. Once they're out of here, if people think they're going to come back...I think sometimes we live in a bit of a fool's paradise.

There's mining potential all over the world, all sorts of places where mining investment is moving right now. So I think that we have to be responsible, but I also think we have to be aggressive and pursue our opportunities. Because if we don't, other places in the world are going to think lucky for them that we're such fools.

I want to say again that I think the fact is that the Minister has done very good work bringing the aboriginal groups together. I think we're beginning to see some meeting of the minds. I think there are a lot of very clever leaders in the Northwest Territories; pragmatic, realistic leaders who also understand that in order to achieve your dreams you have to be able to pay for them. And I think the Minister has done a good job bringing those leaders together, so I for one support his efforts. I really urge the aboriginal leaders to have a look at this and let's find some mechanisms so everybody can protect their interest, but we can all move ahead and we all can slowly take off the yoke of the federal government. The stream of money we have from the federal government, inevitably, is going to be diminished in the years to come. I think we all have to recognize that.

So I really hope that a diamond mine is built here in the Northwest Territories. In our trip to Africa, we visited the most modern diamond mine in the world: Venetia in South Africa. I think all of us on the trip were quite impressed with the technology used in that mine, and the possibilities that are available to BHP or other producers here in the Northwest Territories. Putting in a diamond mine in the 1990s is very different from building a diamond mine 50 years ago.

Diamonds, of all the minerals that can be mined, are really the most environmentally benign. They don't use chemicals. Essentially, you have a hole in the ground; a pile of gravel. In Venetia they have new techniques so that as they are actually using the mine they are reclaiming it. So they are not waiting till the end of the mine in order to do that. They are actually reclaiming parts of the mine as the mine is producing. In Venetia they have created a game park many times the size of the actual mining area and they are reintroducing the elephant, lion and other animals that haven't been in the area for many years. It's interesting that in this one particular area of South Africa, this mine has actually added value to the environment as opposed to taking away. There is a hole in the ground for a few square kilometres but there is a much bigger area that has actually been repopulated with animals. So, with some imagination and some realistic approaches to the problem, there are all sorts of innovative ways that we can enhance the environment using the revenues generated from mining.

I would hope that the environmental groups don't spend all of their energy opposing mining. I hope that they can use some of their creative energy to come up with some examples and

ideas of how the revenues generated from mining can be put to good use to protect wildlife and to protect the environment.

Basically, Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to say a few words about my thoughts about mining, the mining industry and the departmental initiatives. I think there is tremendous potential in this area, and I guarantee that if we don't take advantage of that potential, 10, 15 or 20 years from now people are going to be asking, why not. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Any other general comments? Mr. Koe.

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Fred Koe Inuvik

I just want to make a few comments on this particular department.

I guess we can't over emphasize the need here in the north, as most of my colleagues have already mentioned one way or another, to develop some kind of northern accord and have all the groups and everyone in the Northwest Territories support the particular accord.

I know that lately there has been a lot of emphasis on minerals, but we have another sector that I think we should pay some attention to and that is the oil and gas sector. In the 1970s and early in the 1980s, there was a lot of oil and gas activity up through the Mackenzie Valley. We got a pipeline out of the deal and a lot of exploration went on in the Beaufort-Mackenzie Delta area. The resources are still there. There are proven finds of oil and of huge gas resources that we have to consider when doing an economic plan for the Northwest Territories. We have to also consider ways and means of enticing and enhancing the development of those resources.

We also, as I mentioned, have to ensure that the peoples of the north are fully involved from the initial discussion levels in the development of these accords. I know the Minister has been active in ensuring that the aboriginal groups especially have opportunities to participate in the discussions, and for that, I thank the Minister and his departmental staff for those initiatives.

One other area the department is responsible for is the investigation and looking at of alternate uses of energy. One thing that we don't hear too much about these days is energy conservation or using different sources of energy. We know there have been a lot of studies and a lot of work done in those areas. I think we have to keep pursuing them. With taxes being raised every year for oil and gas and whatever else we use, we have to look at ways of conserving energy or using different sources. The initiatives in the Dogrib country using hydro is one that I think would benefit and should benefit all Northerners.

We have to ensure these activities through an accord or whatever mechanisms, are tools that not only this government but the federal government can use. We have to ensure that we get the maximum benefit that we can and have that provided to the north.

I just wanted to make those few comments, Mr. Chairman, on this department. Mahsi.

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you very much, Mr. Koe. General comments on the Department of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. Mr. Antoine.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the Department of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, I want to make a few comments, especially on the area of the northern accord - the oil, gas and mineral accord - which this department has been working in. I understand the reasoning behind the need for a northern accord as a potential way of financing our government in the future.

We are in a very difficult situation here with the different aboriginal groups. Some of them have land claim agreements, some don't, and some are working on it presently. So it's a very difficult area in which to try and get an accord. I represent an area where there are no claims, and the people in that area are working towards making arrangements with the federal government. So as a Dene myself, we consider that land ours and the resources on it as ours as well. We haven't extinguished any of our aboriginal treaty rights to any of the lands and waters in our area. So that is the premise of where the group is coming from. Other claimant groups have made an arrangement to let the territorial government be responsible for that area, so they have an arrangement worked out already. I guess if everybody had an arrangement it would be easier to go ahead with it simply, because the territorial government has the responsibility to do it. But in this area here, it is a difficult situation because a couple of groups in the southwestern territories do not yet have an agreement. They are presently working on it, and the quicker they settle their discussions with the federal government, the better.

I think that to expedite things this government should help and give all the support they can to this group to sit down with the federal government to expedite their discussions because this whole northern accord is tied in and linked to that discussion. There are different departments who are working with this group. The aboriginal affairs group should especially be working with this group to try to seek ways on how they can expedite their discussions with the federal government. In the constitutional discussion of January, there was consensus that parallel processes should continue between the development of the constitution and bilateral arrangements between the aboriginal groups and the federal government. That was a direction that came out of the conference and this government should work with this group to try to expedite this area.

With that in mind, I know the Minister has been successful in arranging two meetings with aboriginal groups to date and there is an understanding that they would continue to work together. I'm glad of that. This should continue, there should be openness. To get to the point, I would like to know at what stage would that no longer apply. Will all the groups continue to be involved until an arrangement is made? I would like to urge the Minister to try to continue this process because it is very important.

I, too, went along to Africa with the Minister on his invitation. I gladly accepted the invitation. It was a real eye-opener to me because I don't know anything about mining. I'm in an area where there isn't much mining, although there is potential for it in the area. This diamond mine is a really good opportunity for people in the north. I like the arrangement they have in Namibia and Botswana where the government owns half the mine and taxes the other half. If we could come to that arrangement, I would fully support it 100 per cent.

---Laughter

That is one good arrangement that other countries are able to achieve. I know the benefit that the government of those countries have from that kind of an arrangement.

My colleague, Mr. Ballantyne, says that the modern mine in Venetia comprised of a hole in gravel, but he didn't say it was a big hole and there was a big pile of gravel. That's what we have to contend with. In the SCOF report, we recommended that this department, along with the Department of Renewable Resources coordinate their efforts to have a unified approach at the hearings of the environmental assessment review panel and make presentations as well as respond to any intervenors. I think I would like to give that direction again and reiterate to the Minister that if that could be accomplished, it would certainly help the situation.

The other area of concern is alternate energy. I know that not only hydro produces power, there are other means used in other parts of the world such as wind. I know in the past there was talk of having power harnessed from nuclear sources like slowpoke reactors and so forth. I don't know if this department is looking into that or if there was there any thought by this department to look in that direction.

Today we know that whenever you put in a hydro dam, there are a lot of repercussions. We are hearing from our colleague, Mr. Pudlat, that the Great Whale River Dam is polluting the area of the Hudson Bay and James Bay. Whenever you put in a dam, environmental problems result. Sure, it generates power and that is what you need, but at the same time, the by-product is that there is a detriment to the environment. The people of the north use a lot of food from the land, such as fish, sea mammals, caribou and moose, and these animals are affected by environmental hazards so we have to be considerate of that.

I'm just wondering if the department should look into this area to see what the possibilities are. I know this is going to cause concern in different parts of the north but we have to be realistic as well. Those are my comments, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. About three people have made general comments but they also raised some general questions. I would like to ask the Minister if he wants to respond to all or any of the issues that have been raised?

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps I can just make a quick statement and try to clarify a number of the points that were raised. Mr. Ballantyne raised the question of orderly development and the involvement of environmentalists. I think we have made it pretty clear over the last two years, and certainly over the last eight months -- whether it was the Premier or the Finance Minister in his budget address or myself -- that this government's position is that we're open for business and we must proceed with responsible development.

I think that's as clear a statement as I can make. I think the advocates and opposition should understand that that is the position of this government and that we intend to aggressively pursue the orderly and responsible development of mines, whether it is in the Lac de Gras area or, for that matter, in my own riding.

A concern was raised about the accord -- which is getting lots of profile these days -- with respect to the difference of positions with aboriginal groups that Mr. Antoine raised, vis-a-vis of land claims versus nation to nation with some of the First Nations. We've tried, in the discussions we've held, both formally and informally, to develop language within the accord that would provide comfort to the aboriginal groups and to avoid infringing, if you want, on the positions that they've taken, in particular where there isn't a claim. I've met on a number of occasions with the groups individually and, of course, Mr. Bailey and Mr. Nicholls are meeting with the groups as a whole in round table discussions.

It is extremely difficult to reach an arrangement when you have the diversity of opinion that we have across the territories. It would be my desire as the Minister responsible for Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources to make an arrangement with all the people in the Northwest Territories. However, I have said up front -- and most of you know that I'm reasonably direct in what my position is -- that if I'm unable to reach an accommodation with all groups, it's my opinion that if there is broad-based support for an accord amongst the majority of groups in the Northwest Territories that we would have to proceed with the negotiations. That is my public position and I've said it on a number of occasions. My preference, obviously, would be to try to reach an arrangement with all groups.

I want to stress again, particularly for Mr. Antoine in his area and, of course, for the Treaty 8 group, that really I think we have aggressively pursued language that is satisfactory to these groups in order to provide them with the comfort that we are not infringing upon any arrangements they are currently negotiating with the federal government. It is certainly not my intent to do that and I want to state that publicly today.

On the alternative energy resources that Mr. Antoine alluded to also, we are reasonably active on it, but I think it is fair to say it is not a priority, quite frankly, right now. A great deal of our energy has been put into this accord and the development that is being driven by the diamond exploration. However, we are now looking at, along with the Power Corporation, other alternative sources of energy both in the dams...Mr. Zoe, I am sure, will agree that we were very supportive of the Dogrib and their arrangement of trying to organize -- and are, I believe -- putting together a dam. We do work closely with the NWT Power Corporation on wind generation. And, of course, at the same time, we are trying to -- at a very pragmatic level -- suggest to people across the territories that we have to be more energy efficient in both our old buildings and certainly in any new developments that we do. So that would be my general response, Mr. Chairman, at this time. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Todd. General comments. Mr. Lewis.

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be brief. This morning I mentioned the need for us to become more self-sufficient, and I know that other Members have pointed out some of the political difficulties of achieving all of this stuff. But it seems to me that we have not only the political problem; we have the general problem of how we approach development. And for some reason, we haven't been able to make this as clear as we could.

I also went to a meeting in the fall, to the very first international environment management meeting, sponsored by the world mining industry. The whole conference dealt with the whole issue of development and the image that the industry has throughout the world. I spent most of my time with people from Africa and South America and I learned an awful lot. But it seems to me that the key at the government level is the fact that you have to have your act together.

I know that the Standing Committee on Finance has said we should give some focus and we could do things better, we have always had too many players and too many voices; but what I learned is this: if the government has a policy on development that is done in the way that many of us have suggested, everybody, every single person, becomes pro-development. If you say that you are in favour of responsible development or sustainable development, everybody is onside. We all agree that this is good, that development is a good idea, and you don't end up polarizing people.

It doesn't matter whether you have one person at the table, two people or 10 people, as long as there is only one person who speaks according to the policy of one government. The government has a policy. It doesn't matter who in fact is the person that then sits down to represent that group, because you have a policy that you have all bought into and you have all agreed with. That was something that came through very clearly at the meetings I was at: it is very difficult for people in the industry to come to grips with stuff if they don't know where everybody is coming from.

So it is absolutely essential for this government to have a policy which is clear and it doesn't matter who sits at the table, that is the policy that he or she is talking about; the one of this government. Not this department's policy or that department's policy, but this government's policy. And you don't need two, three or four voices, you only need one. Because it is backed up then, by the whole system that supports you. So that is why it is important, it seems to me, that we find some way of speaking with one voice so that we are all pro-development, but in a way that everybody can accept.

That is the first thing that I wanted to say. And for some reason or another, that penny hasn't dropped for the last five years when we've been pushing to try to get some agreement on how we are going to handle the interface between the environment and the economy. How do we do it?

We tried one thing, apparently it didn't work, for whatever reason. And now we have another group in place which is a replacement for it, which is called the Slave province regional study group, or whatever. But it is important for us anyway, that as a government we have something, and if the round table wasn't a way of doing it, maybe the priorities people can come up with something and say this is where we stand. Do all the consultation that you need to do so that everybody feels that this is all right, it is a good policy to have, then that becomes our position that we take that into the system.

The other thing that I learned, Mr. Chairman, at the meeting I went to -- again, these are people from all over the world, about 70 countries -- is that the technical people, the people who are involved in the engineering side of things say we have all kinds of people -- and we did have a few environmental groups at this meeting who came out of interest. So the biggest problem we have is this: with the people who come in who represent the particular interest groups, they won't tell us what the problem is. They sit and they bellyache, they moan and they whine and so on, but they don't say this is the problem, because we are convinced that if you tell us what the problem is, we know on the basis of the technological advances that we have made in our industry, that we can solve that problem. But there seems to be a reluctance to say, well, you know, that it's the water, or it's the this, or it's the that. People just want to make a statement, very often a political one. But if it is always presented in a practical, down-to-earth way so it can be looked at, examined and understood, then the people in the industry are convinced that with knowledge and expertise we can solve those because they are solvable problems now.

And we have a huge new industry of environmental technology which Canada is becoming a world leader in. It is a huge export industry for us, where all of these people in South America and even in Africa, can turn to Canadians and say here is an environmental problem that we have; do you think you could handle this? And we say, we have done that, we know how to do that. So now, environmental management is becoming a huge sector of our economy simply because we have the know-how to help people to solve those problems, as long as you have the people who are prepared to sit down and identify the problem that has to be solved.

So that was the second thing that I wanted to say, Mr. Chairman, about the way we should go in relationship to developing this sort of primary industry, if you like.

I know many of us have the hope that we will get beyond being what we were called at one time: the hewers of wood and the drawers of water. Canada has had that kind of reputation for over 100 years, where all we are good for is to hack out stuff, supply the wood, supply the energy and somebody else will have the thousands and thousands and thousands of jobs.

I know that other Members have looked at the potential of mining in the north as a way in which perhaps we could branch off into doing secondary things; and there may be some potential there. But it seems to me, that we have to be very careful in the way we pose our demands because there are some things that would not be economic to do. We have to be realistic about what it is that we could do in a secondary way to do the value-added things that we agree would be good for us to have so that our people can benefit from employment.

If we end up being too demanding and say well, look, you know, no-go, unless we can have...Our bottom line is this. You may find out that because it is a very volatile industry, people

say forget this one, it's cheaper to go ahead and develop this deposit somewhere else.

I think that we can play the game as well as anybody to get the maximum advantages that we should get if you are the owner of a resource. And I think we have to be very careful, before we push the buttons, about what our bottom line is and so on, about what we would like to see in the territories.

But I do agree with the comments that have been made, that we should try to maximize the benefits, but not in such a way that you end up driving industry away from this part of the world because it is all ready happening. Several Members have pointed out that already you find investment going elsewhere because the climate is better -- I am talking about the economic, political, social and every other kind of climate -- and you wouldn't want to do anything that will say, well, let's forget all about this, we would be just as happy if it's not developed and nobody develops it. Because we would be better off in finding another place to do our work, where the returns will be better, there will be less hassle and the investors will be happy and so on.

But I do applaud the Minister for the efforts he has made in this area and I would urge him during the months of the summer, when perhaps the pressures are not quite so great, that he will look very carefully at trying to bring some of this home for us. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

---Applause

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Mr. Minister.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to repeat again, just for the record, that I think we have spent an inordinate amount of time in the last six to seven months trying gather support for the orderly transfer of the accord to the territorial government. Not just myself, but the Premier, the Finance Minister, Mr. Kakfwi and others, are optimistic. Mr. Irwin has indicated to me that he is prepared to move reasonably quickly. I'm optimistic that we can reach a reasonable consensus across the territories. I want to say that for the record because I think it is important that we continue to say it.

Mr. Lewis said earlier in his speech, and raised earlier today, the concern about the need for a sustainable development policy. We, in fact, do have one that was put in place in March 1993. I was advised by the staff because I asked the question when I went up the stairs. I would go as far as to say to you that we concede that perhaps we haven't implemented it or articulated it as well as we should and I want to ensure the honourable Member that I intend to do that post-haste.

In this policy, it does say, "The Government of the Northwest Territories will promote exploration, development and the use of mineral aggregate and fossil fuel resources in ways that maintain lasting social and economic benefits while maintaining ecological processes and natural diversity." Now, maybe that's a motherhood statement, but it does clearly say, I would suggest to you, that this government is an advocate of orderly development. As I said two minutes ago, I am concerned and will concede that perhaps we haven't articulated this policy well as a government, and I want to assure the Member that will change post-haste.

With respect to the Member's question about value-added jobs, I agree entirely with him. We have to be extremely careful that the demands that we place on the industry are not unreasonable because there is a cost component. Diamonds are of an international nature and they are generally in, if I can be frank about it, Third World economies which does create a problem when you look at the costs of operation in the Northwest Territories. We're not a Third World economy where we pay someone 25 cents a day to polish diamonds, like they do in India. So, I think there are some fiscal realities out there that we have to approach.

However, I want to tell this House that we are aggressively putting papers together and working on strategic development policies. We are evaluating where we think there is some potential for value-added jobs in this industry, whether it be a sorting facility -- similar to what we saw in Gaborone and Botswana when my colleagues and I travelled there -- or a polishing facility, and the value that comes with it. I do want to say that I'm told this mine is now going to cost $800 million in terms of capital costs. If the business community in the Northwest Territories is as aggressive as we would like it to be, surely to goodness at least in the front end and the building of it, there will be significant benefits accrued to not only northern business but to businesses in southern Canada, in Alberta, BC and Ontario.

In the long term, I'm told that there is somewhere between $200 and $300 million worth of spending on an annual basis and I would hope that the business community, the jobs and the disposable income would have a strong northern reflection to it. We certainly intend to take steps to work with the industry, not to impede its ability to make profits, but to enhance it with the development of some involvement of northerners, whether it is in employment training, job or service opportunities.

Mr. Chairman, I'm as equally concerned as others that we do not continue to be wards of the state and that we find a way to become less dependent on the transfers which the Finance Minister has mentioned, if I may suggest, until he is blue in the face. I really believe we are all in sync with this thing. I think that, generally speaking, the aboriginal groups are equally in sync. There are some distinct differences which we have to try to accommodate and I'm optimistic that we can. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Lewis.

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Just a brief comment. Before I opened my mouth, Mr. Chairman, about the lack of policy -- and in fact, I did it twice today -- we did get confirmation from three departments of government last week that there is no such thing as a sustainable development policy which has been approved by our Executive Council. So, whatever may exist may be some guidelines.

What I find, Mr. Chairman, is that they are the mines, themselves, that propose guidelines. If you go to a mine, you see a whole list of what you can and cannot do. They decide. In other words, they've taken the bull by the horns and have said the people operating in this camp can do this and do that, but can't do that. They are doing the kinds of things that this government should have done in the first place. They have said, if there is going to be a mine, this is the way aircraft will behave, this is the way construction people will behave, this is the way archaeological sites will be looked after; a whole list of things.

In fact, all the letters that went from the various departments to the Department of Indian Affairs within the last few weeks about the mitigating circumstances surrounding the building of that little road contained all the issues they were concerned about. You shouldn't have to do that if you have a policy which outlines all these things. Because we don't have one, each department has to say, well for us, you have to make sure you do this; for us, you have to make sure you do that; and, for us, you have to make sure you do that. If you had a government policy, a real one, you wouldn't have to have different departments expressing all their concerns about the project.

That's what I mean about a policy. You've got to set it down. Don't let the mining people tell people that they can't hunt with this or they can't fish there. You should know and tell them what the rules are. Environmental matters are this government's responsibility. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Mr. Minister, do you wish to respond?

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Yes. Mr. Lewis is absolutely correct. The policy we have is a general policy. It doesn't break down the detailed requirement of operations which he is requesting. We don't have that in position, he is absolutely correct. There's an urgency to get it put that way. We have a deputy ministers' committee, headed up by Mr. Nicholls and this deputy ministers' committee is to determine, if you want, the rules of the game and how we should behave. That's the current position we're in. I would concede that we're not in the position we should be in. I'm optimistic that we can at least get pen to paper and endeavour to try to get a more detailed approach to how industry behaves in the broadest of contexts, as Mr. Lewis has suggested, in the next six to eight months. But, he's absolutely correct; we don't have a detailed policy in place and we should.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Before I go to the next speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to welcome in the gallery the students and their supervisors from the Norman Wells Mackenzie Mountain School. Some 19 students are attending grades 1 to 10 and are current studying the northern studies program in Social Studies. I think I got the grade 1 part wrong, they must be in grade 10, at least.

I am going to welcome them individually here, and you must forgive me if I mispronounce your name. However, it will be accurately recorded in Hansard later on: Adam Tamboline, Leigh Marshall, Laura Knox, Kali Webber, Stephanie McCallum, Lara Mason, Jonathan Rojek, Howard Blondin, Suzi Pletikos, Darren Yallee, Trudy Kochon, Angie Denslow, Evan Mason, Nicole Ponzini, Michael Melnyk, Jeff Sloychuk, Shirley McCrea, Nancy Whiteman, and Nekita Lloyd. The supervisors are Sandra Marshall, Elaine Somers and Shawn Tibbo.

---Applause

Welcome and enjoy your visit. The next speaker I have on my list is the honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark, then Mr. Zoe and then Mr. Antoine.

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I don't know much about the mining industry. It is only in recent years that the aboriginal people of this particular jurisdiction have been involved. In the past, we were only involved as people interested in training and job creation. Mr. Speaker, I would like to send a message to this particular government and to the Government of Canada that whatever the mining industry and government propose to do in the area of mining, that all should be sensitive to the lands that are used by native people in each and every region in this country. We have Nunavut; and in Nunavut, different Inuit regional groups. Likewise, we have different claimant groups who are either proposing to claim or have already claimed a piece of land in this area.

We talk about policies of this government and we have talked about the policies of our counterpart, the federal government. I think the policy of regional organizations is equally important. In fact, Mr. Chairman, I think it is more important because these groups depend upon the land for their survival. That strong message should be sent, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as I mentioned earlier, at one point in time, aboriginal groups were part of mining companies, but only as people interested in training and people who wanted to get jobs. But now little groups from the eastern Arctic and from the western Arctic are saying that we want to be full participants and full partners in the mining industry.

Many times in the past, I have heard the mining industry and government saying that aboriginal groups are very nervous about development in their areas. Mr. Chairman, I think the message that has been forthcoming from aboriginal groups in both the eastern and western Arctic is you should respect our culture and respect our way of life. We are in the process of developing land use plans and in some cases, we have already developed land use plans. We are saying that these groups should respect our culture and way of life and know that we are not only participants in the area of training and jobs. It should be "p" for partners. We want to be full partners, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, I attended one of the Kitikmeot Inuit Association meetings in Cambridge Bay some time ago. I think one of the items of discussion was people in that area wanted to be full partners. I'm sure I'm also speaking for the people of the western area, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we know that mining is very important in this particular jurisdiction, especially in the area of Yellowknife. It is my understanding, Mr. Chairman, that Yellowknife was initially settled as a mining town. I think we have come a long way in the area of mining and we should be supportive of any initiative that comes out of the industry but, at the same time, be very sensitive to the environmental issues, especially where mining hasn't developed yet in the northern part of this jurisdiction. That's just a comment I wanted to make, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, very much.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. General comments. Next on the list is Mr. Zoe.

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Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, although the Department of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources is very small, they have a very big responsibility. Mr. Chairman, I know this department has been concentrating heavily on energy development and other development of our resources, but they have been concentrating most on the mining sector.

I will talk about the intergovernmental cooperation that is required by this department. It is very important that they work very closely with Renewable Resources and Economic Development and Tourism because they are all interlinked, Mr. Chairman. I think the department has to work closely with these other departments because these departments are linked to the mining sector. The study that Renewable Resources is undertaking now is going to be very critical to the development of our mining sector and it is going to be a plan our government has to follow. Cooperation is very critical, not only because of that but also with regard to the environmental

assessment panel that is undertaking a review of the BHP development.

I think, particularly with Renewable Resources and Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, our government has to have a unified voice when making presentations to these types of panels. In the past, I don't think we have had that unified approach. It is very critical now, especially in our mining sector, that these departments have a unified approach.

Mr. Chairman, I know there is a lot of emphasis put on our northern accord and mineral accord by this department. I know they are the lead department in this area. I agree with the approach they are taking. I think the department, to date, has been very sensitive and I agree that they are getting the aboriginal groups involved, more so than before. I think that's required in order for us to be successful in acquiring this northern accord. I would encourage the Minister to continue the good cooperation he is undertaking. Mr. Chairman, although minerals is at the forefront of this department -- and I agree that it is very important. Mining, particularly, in my area is very important, with all this diamond play happening in our back yard -- I think it is equally important that the Minister also keep in mind energy development that is required in the territories, particularly hydro development.

I know the Minister is aware that my region is very involved in hydro development and I would like to ask the Minister that he give this development equal importance as the mining sector. I think it is going to benefit not only my region, but the territories as a whole. It is an investment that I think our people have to have and it is a good investment, in my view. So, I would encourage the Minister not only to use the other hat he wears with Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, but give this equal priority with mining and northern accord development.

I am going to be brief. Those are the things I wanted to mention to the Minister with regard to his portfolio of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. Mahsi.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Minister Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think maybe I should clear up some confusion; and perhaps I'm the instrument of the confusion. I think it should be stated publicly that clearly, there is interdepartmental cooperation between Renewable Resources and EM&PR now -- perhaps it wasn't there before, but there is now -- as it relates to stating our positions. Renewable Resources, as you know, does have the lead in providing the position of the government at these environmental review panel hearings. We are working very, very closely with them in developing our position to make sure it is consistent with the political direction given by the Cabinet. I should say that publicly.

In the long-term -- and I believe I have stated this in the House and others have stated it -- we are currently looking at the possibility of a sustainable development department as part of our cost-saving exercises and also as part of trying to reach a common position on issues of development. In an ideal world, I would like to think that at the end of the summer that we would be in a position to present to whoever is here in the new Assembly the possible amalgamation of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, Economic Development and Renewable Resources. That is being worked on. I think it is fair to say that.

So, there is a unified approach between the two departments. The Standing Committee on Finance also alluded to this issue so I think it is important that I state this today so there is no confusion now as to what this government's position is. Any presentation made to an ERP panel would be done in sync and harmony with Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, and it is my understanding that the Standing Committee on Finance has actually encouraged that and I believe has made some comments to that effect.

Regarding hydro development, I agree with the honourable Member that it is an area we have to take a hard look at. It will be a first, in terms of the size and the significance of it. I want to assure him that Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources and the Department of Economic Development and Tourism, which I am responsible for, are watching and participating in this development in as an aggressive manner as possible because we understand that there is a potential for future hydro development once this first one takes place. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Todd. Next on my list is Mr. Antoine, Member for Nahendeh.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you. I would like to make further comments after listening to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. It has to do with the northern accord. I just want to get this clear. Mr. Todd, in discussing meetings with aboriginal groups and having all the aboriginal groups involved, stated that if he has broad-based support by a majority of the people then he may have to go ahead. He used the language, "if it is satisfactory to all the aboriginal groups at the table..." His statement indicates that negotiations for the northern accord will go by June. I'm concerned about my particular constituency, the Deh Cho area. Does that mean if the Deh Cho area is not on board by June, that you will go ahead anyway with the northern accord? I just wanted to get that clear.

There is a lot of concern on the part of some of the Members here, who are making it sound like it is going to be the end of the world if this northern accord doesn't happen and that all these mining companies will go elsewhere. It sounds like a scare tactic to me. I don't know anything about mining, but usually whenever statements are made like that, they are based on a study or briefing paper. I don't have those studies and I just take the sense from the words that are being spoken, that this is what is happening. It would be good to find that information out, if that is the case. If it is, we're in serious trouble here.

But the way I understood this northern accord, it is taking over the administration of oil and gas and mining resources in the north. My understanding is that we are taking over the administration of it which Ottawa presently has; it is a devolving of responsibility to the territorial government. What it really entails is included in it. But, the final analysis is that the amount of royalties that the government could levy on the oil and gas industries and mining companies is still controlled by the federal government. Here, there are smoke and mirrors and all kinds of hype that we are going to lose all of this mining, gas and oil activity if this northern accord doesn't get approved. But, the fact of the matter is, the real control will still be in Ottawa where they dictate the royalty regime for oil and gas. Maybe the Minister could explain this and clear it up.

During the Western Constitutional Conference, this was raised and the consensus was that the control that Ottawa has has to be changed so more benefits could accrue to people of the north if arrangements regarding oil, gas and minerals are changed. There was supposed to have been a study or analysis of that arrangement. I haven't, to date, seen such a briefing paper or analysis. That is where the control lies. It is not going to be in the northern accord. All I understand the northern accord is going to do is we will be administering oil, gas and mining, but the real control will still be in Ottawa. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Minister Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

We appreciate those questions; they are very important ones, particularly for Mr. Antoine's riding and for the Treaty 8 people. The idea of trying to complete an arrangement with the aboriginal groups by June is what was agreed to by the groups, themselves. That's what I was told by the negotiators. At some point, you have to set some deadlines about when you can make or not make an arrangement.

So, I'm told by the negotiators that this is what they agreed to. I would have liked to have seen it a little earlier, but they've said they need another two months. Originally, it was April or May, I believe. I'm told now that the round table has agreed that they will try to reach an arrangement -- and let me stress, try to reach an arrangement -- by June. That's the reason I mentioned June, because that is what was decided by the groups at the table.

There were some deadlines set. The deadlines set are to determine whether we have an arrangement or not, that's all at that stage of the game. If there was a lack of broadly-based support, I said to the Treaty 8 people last week at a meeting, I'm not sure what position I would take, I would have to go back to Cabinet and also, at the same time, try to determine what my personal position was as a Minister. So I wouldn't want Mr. Antoine to think there was any implication there that we would just proceed arbitrarily. I don't know what position I would take if we can't reach an appropriate arrangement. So I have to say that. I said it last week and I have to say it again: we have to remain consistent.

With respect to an accord, I think it's important to point out, yes, we would take over the administration of lands and resources. We would also have the legislative authority which would then enable us and give us the authority to set royalties and taxation. So that's really the important component of this thing. We would, in fact, I'm told by the staff, have the authority to set royalties and taxation.

It does not give us the authority with respect to land use. That would still lie with DIAND and they would consult with the communities, et cetera, about development, to the best of their ability. Thank you.

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Next on my list is Mr. Pudlat. Mr. Pudlat.

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Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to say briefly, with regard to this department...First of all, Mr. Chairman, I would like to say that I think all the Members know that I have been pursuing the Quebec hydro project that is being proposed, for quite some time. I have not forgotten this and I would like to pursue it some more.

It is very important that the environment is not destroyed and that we should do everything in our power to prevent a disaster in the environment. Whether it be in the west or whether it be in the east, I think the environment is very important and we have to protect it. Our ancestors lived off the wildlife that environment provides for, and I think that we have to protect the environment.

Looking at the future, I feel that the proposed hydro project in Quebec has to be watched properly to make sure that the people are involved in the environmental assessment review panel. I think that it's very important that we know how the people who are doing the project are going to proceed with their construction of the hydro project. Whenever there is something that could destroy our animals and our land, we have to have plans in the future to provide for the people. We all know that we have to produce those kinds of energy and that we have to be paid royalties. If not us, then our government.

Mr. Chairman, I feel this is very, very important for me, especially with regard to the Quebec hydro project that they're proposing. I will be pursuing this continuously, as long as I'm a Member of the Legislative Assembly. I just want to make sure that there isn't going to be negative impacts when Hydro Quebec is constructed, or anything for that matter. Whether there's going to be oil or gas exploration in the Northwest Territories, the environment has to be protected. Even though we know that this can generate revenue, we have to be very protective of the environment. I just wanted to make a comment in this regard, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat. General comments. Any further general comments? Does the committee agree that we move to detail?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Line By Line

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, starting at page 13-10. Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, operations and maintenance, total O and M, $5.687 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Detail of grants and contributions. The chair recognizes Mr. Koe.

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you. Under the contributions, I note that there's $40,000 for development impact zones. Can the Minister tell me where has this $40,000 been spent? I thought the DIZ groups were sort of gone with the dinosaurs. Obviously, there are one or two groups left. Can you tell me where they are?

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Minister Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

I believe this is in the Norman Wells, Sahtu area. Mr. Frank Pope and his group is where this $40,000 has gone to.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Todd. Details of grants and contributions is information, page 13-12, contributions, $1.225 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Grants and contributions, $1.225 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Mr. Koe.

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you. Under northern accord contributions, there's $100,000 for aboriginal organizations. Is this money that is being given to each organization, or just to specific organizations, or is it used for their travel to attend these northern accord meetings? Can you just give me some detail on this, please?

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Minister Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Yes. When I sat down individually with the different aboriginal groups in an effort to encourage them to come together under the canvas, as they say, there were some groups that indicated that would we be prepared to assist them in providing some financial assistance so they can prepare their case and evaluate where we were going with this accord, and that's what this money was partially for. Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Todd. Anything further under details of grants and contributions? Detail of grants and contributions, contributions, $1.225 million.

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Total grants and contributions, $1.225 million.

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Detail of work performed on behalf of third parties. Total department, $137,000. That's page 13-14.

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Detail of work performed on behalf of third parties. Total department, $137,000.

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Program summary, operations and maintenance, total O and M, $5.687 million.

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

We have agreement. This concludes the Department of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Minister and Mr. Nicholls for helping us with this. What is the wish of the committee? The chair recognizes the Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Fred Koe Inuvik

I move we report progress.

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

We have a motion on the floor to report progress which is not debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

I shall rise and report to the Speaker.

Committee Motion 29-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Department Of Health And Social Services, Carried
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The House will come back to order. Item 21, report of committee of the whole. Mr. Whitford.

Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 1 and Committee Report 4-12(7) and would like to report progress with one motion being adopted. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of committee of the whole be concurred with.

Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Do we have a seconder? Mr. Zoe.

Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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An Hon. Member

Question.

Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 22, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Item 23: Orders Of The Day
Item 23: Orders Of The Day

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Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, there will be a meeting of the Management and Services Board at 2:00 pm this afternoon. Monday morning, there will be a meeting at 9:00 am of the Standing Committee on Legislation, at 10:30 am of the Ordinary Members' Caucus, and at 11:30 of the Striking Committee. Orders of the day for Monday, February 27, 1995:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Replies to Budget Address

11. Petitions

12. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

14. Tabling of Documents

15. Notices of Motion

16. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

17. Motions

- Motion 10-12(7), Impact of Federal Gun Control Legislation

18. First Reading of Bills

19. Second Reading of Bills

- Bill 16, Retirement Plan Beneficiaries Act

- Bill 17, Nursing Profession Act

20. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96

- Committee Report 2-12(7), Report on the Legislative

Action Paper on the Office of Ombudsman for the Northwest Territories

- Bill 3, An Act to Amend the Judicature Act

- Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Limitation of Actions Act 21.Report of Committee of the Whole

22. Third Reading of Bills

- Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Elections Act

23. Orders of the Day

Item 23: Orders Of The Day
Item 23: Orders Of The Day

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

This House stands adjourned until 1:30 pm, Monday, February 27, 1995.

---ADJOURNMENT