This is page numbers 369 - 399 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's always difficult when you have to make cuts. It's a little out of character for this government, historically. We're in restraint, just like everybody else around the country, so there has to be some rationale for the cuts and I'll explain that in a moment. I do want to say that it is difficult but somebody has to make decisions and in this department, that ultimately lies with me.

I understand some of the concerns Mr. Antoine has raised and will try to answer them. Let me take the easy one first and that is the Fort Simpson airport. Mr. Antoine expressed some concern with the transfer about whether the services would be less or reduced. We're reasonably confident that the arrangement we have come to have with the federal government will, at a minimum, ensure the current level of service. We're reasonably confident that, with our hands-on experience with running Arctic B and C airports, with a little optimism, we might even be able to run them a little better.

On the issue of the overall cuts and Mr. Antoine's fiscal analysis of the situation, I should make it clear that the overall cuts to the department were $2.6 million. Out of that $2.6 million, $1.5 million came out of highways. There was forced growth of $1.4 million in relationship to maintenance on airstrips that wasn't there before. I feel it is important to clarify that. Out of the $1.5 million for highways, Mr. Antoine is correct, there was a significant amount of money taken out of his riding, but it was also taken out of others because of traffic flow, the length of the road system, et cetera.

I don't question anything that Mr. Antoine has said about whether it is going to deteriorate in terms of levels of maintenance et cetera that has been there historically. We're going to try for that not to happen but time will tell. I was in a position, as other Ministers were, where I had to take measures to cut. I want to assure Mr. Antoine that any cuts that took place in the highways was not placed in another budget. Forced growth was the overall factor in determining the overall budget.

On the issue of winter roads -- and that is an issue that has been addressed by other colleagues -- again, that was a decision we had to make with respect to cuts. I will say that the primary reason was to look for savings because that was what was requested of us. However, there are discussions under way, and they have been going on for the last two years, I believe, with Fisheries with respect to environmental considerations when the ice roads deteriorate. That was a factor, though not the principle factor in looking at reductions for winter roads.

Mr. Zoe asked earlier today about whether people could still use the roads after March 15th. I would say that this government wouldn't sanction use of the ice roads. However, at the same time, I don't believe we would be in a position to stop people. I think that would be a fair statement.

I've instructed the department, because I understand the importance of adequate, cost-effective transportation to the small communities, to monitor very closely the maintenance of this highway this summer. If there is any way, in the future, that I can improve the level of maintenance, I'm prepared to do it. Those are my comments at this time, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Todd. General comments. Next on my list is the Member for Baffin Central, Ms. Mike.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have one concern. My second question was already dealt with by John Ningark. There seems to be no money allocated for docks and breakwaters. The budget seems more directed to the creation of bridges. (Translation ends) For the past few years, we've had severe weather conditions in early and late fall, especially in the eastern Arctic where we don't have any highway systems. A number of outfitters and fishermen have lost their vessels due to high waters. I don't see anything in the budget to address this problem. Especially in my riding, tourism is a viable business for outfitters, as well as Fisheries. Although, in one of my communities, the breakwater is under construction.

There are many other smaller communities, including in the Keewatin, that don't have any docking facilities or breakwaters to at least try to accommodate the vessel owners when we do have severe storms in early and late fall. There has been a number of boats that have been lost. Some of these vessels were purchased by this government through Economic Development and Tourism. Because I think we are going through some climate change, the weather in the eastern Arctic has changed dramatically. I am somewhat disappointed not having seen any dollars allocated to what I call marine services. Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

February 28th, 1995

Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Ms. Mike, for those comments. Mr. Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would say to the honourable Member that while there are no significant dollars in the O and M budget, we have managed to shift some capital dollars in terms of trying to develop marine services in the Nunavut and Arctic areas. I think the Member is correct. Over the last 10, 15 or 20 years, we have spent an average of somewhere between $15 million and $20 million on an annual basis on road development in the western Arctic. We have spent significant money historically in trying to develop airports, if you want, in Nunavut. Clearly, in the coming years with the development of airstrips in to the western Arctic where they don't already have them, such as Nahanni Butte, Deline, or whether it's improvements to those airstrips, there is going to be a requirement for a closer look at equity in terms of the distribution of the dollars and where we put our money.

I am looking very carefully at that because I concur with the Member that we don't have a road system in the eastern Arctic. The theory behind it was that you would put airstrips into it. We are developing a comprehensive airstrip program in the west now. I believe by 1998, we will have airstrips in all communities except Mr. Zoe's...

---Laughter

...which we are endeavouring to look at, which Mr. Zoe knows full well.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

An Hon. Member

(Microphone turned off)

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Order.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

John Todd Keewatin Central

Am I supposed to...

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

An Hon. Member

(Microphone turned off)

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

You have the floor, Mr. Minister. I have asked the committee to restrain themselves. Order, please. Mr. Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

John Todd Keewatin Central

We are endeavouring to try and find resources to assess the marine development, whether it's breakwaters in Pangnirtung, or whether it is Gjoa Haven, Pelly Bay or other communities in the eastern Arctic. If you want to go back to the capital budget, you'll see that we have made some improvement -- by no means perfect, but some improvement -- and I am optimistic that in the coming years we will be able to improve that even more.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Todd. General comments. The chair recognizes Mr. Allooloo, then Mr. Zoe. Member for Amittuq.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

An Hon. Member

(Microphone turned off)

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Just a minute. See, it's been so long since you have used it.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the Minister mentioned before, one of the only things that we have in the Nunavut area is the airstrips to get people from place to place. They are probably a few thousand years behind the western territories, who are very lucky to have highways to communities, winter roads and even paved highways over here. As the Minister knows, the CARS program, which I believe was the federal government's idea to assist to have the airport radios operating 24 hours a day, in some places has been cut severely, in some cases endangering airplanes to some degree. In my case, in my constituency of Pond Inlet, we used to have 24-hour radio operators who would assist the airplanes coming into the community. I understand the number of hours of operation has been cut and the airplane cannot utilize the weather reports and atmospheric conditions from the air radio operators. Mr. Chairman, I would like to know if there has been any progress in terms of getting those air radio operators to go back to 24 hours to assist airplanes? Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Allooloo. Minister Todd.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

John Todd Keewatin Central

I appreciate the Member's statements, and I certainly do recognize, coming from an eastern Arctic community, the vital importance of air safety and the absolute necessity to try to ensure that we get good, accurate, timely weather reports, particularly if you come from Rankin Inlet. So they tell me anyway.

Last year, the honourable Member did raise the issue about Pond Inlet, and I believe Clyde River was the other community where there had been a cutback. I believe at that time it was 40 hours work. Currently we are trying to negotiate for 65 hours, I believe. I stand to be corrected. I'd have to check my notes. We are trying to increase the hours of these CARS programs in the eastern Arctic communities that have them. These discussions have been going on for some time now. At this time, no, we have not come to a satisfactory arrangement, but we are still working on it very hard for that part of the country. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Todd. General comments. The chair continues to recognize the Member for Amittuq.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the response I got from the Minister that the department is still working towards getting resources so that those places where they rely on aircraft for transportation will be able to get 24-hour assistance to give the airplanes updated information on atmospheric information. I would like to thank the Minister for that ongoing work.

On the other hand, Pond Inlet is fast becoming a centre of Nunavut, if not the centre of the universe pretty soon, as the Minister stated earlier during the sitting. Pond Inlet does not have a jet airstrip but it is a centre for the north Baffin and it is unique in having very good weather. I doubt very much that in the last few years an airplane has been prohibited from going in to Pond Inlet due to the weather conditions. The Pond Inlet business community and the hamlet are interested in getting a jet airstrip. It would not be a lot of work. It would require an additional 2,000 feet, I believe, to extend the runway, and the community is willing to contribute some resources to that effect so that, in the event that jets could land there, it would give the aircraft companies another choice in the north Baffin. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if there's any process where, if the community is willing to contribute some resources for that kind of project, that sort of project could be assisted by the department? Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Allooloo. I will just remind Members that this is not question period. We are in general comments and we are going over the Department of Transportation. If there are specific questions you wish to direct to the witnesses, perhaps you can save them until we come to that particular item in the book. I'll allow the Minister to consider the question.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

John Todd Keewatin Central

Well, to be very frank with the honourable Member and to be fair to him, I will say there is nothing in our long-term plans to make significant expansions to the Pond Inlet airstrip. That would come under capital, of course. I know this community well. It is a marvellous community; I lived there in 1975. If the community shows the kind of initiative that I know it can, I would be prepared to send in some of our people from Transportation to at least initiate discussions in relation to this issue. But, I would have to say that at the present time, there is nothing in the long-term plan to expand. Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. The Member for Amittuq.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the Minister for the response and would like to say that the community of Pond Inlet will shortly be asking the Minister's department to assist them in terms of planning and will let the government know their commitment of substantial resources. Even though the community of Pond Inlet is very poor, they are very willing to contribute, both in real resources and in kind, towards extending the runway. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Allooloo. General comments. Next on my list is Mr. Zoe, then Mr. Patterson.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Standing Committee on Finance recognized that, because of fiscal restraint in the government as a whole, this particular department has been hit the hardest; at least that's my view. Nevertheless, Mr. Chairman, I would like to encourage the department to continue to provide the services they are providing.

With regard to highway maintenance, I think it's very critical that they maintain the same level of service as they have in the past. Mr. Chairman, I don't have the statistics with me in regard to the amount of traffic between Rae Edzo and Yellowknife, but it's phenomenal, especially with all the freight being transported up here and from Yellowknife to other communities. I know the maintenance of that highway has sometimes not been up to par. I raised that concern, Mr. Chairman, during the fall session in November. To date, Mr. Chairman, the maintenance, in my view, hasn't been that bad but I'm kind of worried now that spring and summer are coming.

I would encourage the Minister and his department to keep in mind the safety of the general public who travel on those roads. I know that sometimes in the spring, it gets really wet and slippery and sometimes the highway people don't maintain the road as appropriately as they should.

Mr. Chairman, although the department is limited in its financial resources, I would strongly urge them to devolve certain programs and services to communities. For instance, the maintenance of certain sections of the highway and also the maintenance of winter roads, et cetera. I know the department is pretty tight with their money now but I think that effort still has to continue. A lot of goodwill has gone into negotiating a number of contracts before this. My constituents have held a number of contracts with this department and I hope that the department will continue with that high level of negotiations.

Mr. Chairman, I'm not too sure this has to do with this department, but I want to talk about dock facilities. I think Transportation looks after community docks. I know that various communities have these docks and some are large, especially in the eastern Arctic. Some of the communities' docking facilities aren't up to par and the aircraft tied to these docks aren't very safe. Some are eroding to the point where a number of spikes could puncture the platoons of aircraft. I would encourage the department, again, to work closely with those communities that want to either refurbish their docking facilities or even get new ones.

Mr. Chairman, while I'm on the issue of negotiated contracts, one of the questions I wanted to ask this Minister concerns privatizing, say for instance, engineering services, in his department. I wonder if the department has considered privatizing that. I know of a number of firms that would be interested in providing this service. We have that kind of service available in my area.

Mr. Chairman, I wanted to touch on planning. Earlier, the Minister alluded to the success of the west in either upgrading or getting new airport facilities. I agree with the Minister that the west has had its fair share. But, the Minister must not forget that there are two communities without airports and one of them, the Minister indicated this afternoon, is Rae Edzo. Currently, Mr. Chairman, there is a study of the socio-economic impact on the community and region. Once that study is complete, I'm sure the community will definitely be sharing it with the Department of Transportation so they can include it in their planning. I hope, Mr. Chairman, when that time comes, that the Minister and the department will take that study very seriously.

As you know, Mr. Chairman, Rae-Edzo is the hub of the North Slave region. By not having this particular facility, it's making it more difficult for my constituents in the North Slave region.

Mr. Chairman, those are the comments that I wanted to make at this point in time. I will be making further statements later on when we go line by line. Thank you.