Thank you. To the principle of the bill. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there's no doubt that I believe every Member of this House fully supports the intent of this bill. I believe it is certainly something we want to see when the territory divides. We don't want to see a huge deficit for either territory to have to absorb. However, in reviewing this bill, while the intent is good, the thing that is missing is what I would call "teeth," accountability for a deficit if it occurred over the amount that is presented in this bill. There's no accountability in this bill for allowing a deficit. No one is made accountable and I think, in as much as this bill has good intentions, it appears to be paying lip service to the territories.

I know that's not the intent of the bill when it was formulated so I would urge the government to look at putting some sort of accountability into the bill to make people accountable for overexpending and incurring deficits, which we don't want to see. Thank you.

Thank you. To the principle of the bill. Mr. Dent.

Thank you. To the principle of the bill. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to congratulate the Minister of Finance and the government for bringing this forward-looking, progressive bill forward today. This is in keeping with the spirit of the recommendations of the Standing Committee on Finance. I know that these days and in future years, it is not going to be easy to restrain spending but I admire the courage of the Minister of Finance and his Cabinet colleagues in laying this out as a goal.

I want to say, Mr. Speaker, that I'm sure we all agree it is not in the interest of Nunavut that there be a deficit on the eve of division of the Northwest Territories nor, I'm sure, is it in the interest of the new western territory that there be a deficit to deal with on the eve of the creation of that new territory. We have to take the tough steps now to ensure that future governments are not saddled with this problem. I think it is timely and appropriate that this measure be introduced now in 1995, because we're going to have to begin preparing now to ensure these problems are not upon us and have not accumulated by 1999.

Having said my piece about supporting the legislation in principle, Mr. Speaker, and congratulating the Minister for responding to the recommendations of this House, I have to add, and echo the concerns of my colleagues, that the bill could be improved on and must be improved on when it is considered during second reading in committee of the whole. Specifically, I believe that, together -- and I invite the Members of Cabinet to cooperate and work with us on this side of the House to improve the bill -- we can make it even stronger. Instead of a goal, we can make it a requirement of the Government of the Northwest Territories.

I imagine, Mr. Speaker, if the will is there and we continue to have courage and support from the Members of Cabinet, that ways can be found to strengthen this goal that I'm sure we all agree on. I think measures will be suggested and I'm confident that Mr. Pollard will welcome constructive, reasonable suggestions to strengthen the bill and ensure it's not just a goal but that it's a requirement that has reasonable incentives, if not sanctions, to ensure these requirements are met. I am pleased to support this bill, Mr. Speaker, on the expectation that, although it's good, it can be improved upon as we work on it in a spirit of cooperation and with an eye to our obligations to the future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. To the principle of the bill. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to congratulate the committee for raising this as an issue. I would like to thank the Minister for responding to it. I said earlier on today, Mr. Speaker, that we are very reluctant to impose discipline on ourselves and here's one example of an attempt to do that, to have discipline in what we do here. We've been reluctant to do it for a long, long time. So, it gives me great pleasure to see a movement by one of our Ministers to impose some discipline on ourselves in difficult times.

I don't know, and maybe some people know already, whether they'll be here after next October. Some people have already counted themselves out. I know that some people are reluctant to support a bill that wants to impose something on future Assemblies and Members. They may be told that it's fine to pass laws that you may not have to live with, that you've had good times, but what about us? We're passing a law that tells people how they have to behave in the future. We're going to get that kind of criticism but it takes courage sometimes to do what you think is right on the basis of your experience. We say this is what we think we have to do. The future Assembly will have to live with that, but, of course, as an Assembly they can change it if they want, if they would dare.

But I support the bill, I support the Minister, I think he's showing courage in doing it. I also join with my colleagues in saying perhaps we can put a bit more teeth in it because that's another problem. We talk about great principles and great ideas, but what about some teeth; something that actually is meaningful and puts a bit of accountability into things.

So I'm very happy today, Mr. Speaker, to see that we are prepared to impose some discipline on ourselves. It's wonderful. Thank you.

---Applause

To the principle of the bill. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think it was initially the Standing Committee on Finance who made the recommendation, that before 1999 -- before the NWT splits into two; one into Nunavut and the other into a western Arctic government -- that the government of the day doesn't have any deficit at the end of 1999. For that matter, Mr. Speaker, I support the motion, of course.

I know when we set a goal, Mr. Speaker, and we make a law or policy, we want to make sure those who infringe upon the role, the policy, the law, or whatever you call it, will be responsible for their actions. Like my colleague across the room, I would like to utter that I wish there were more teeth to the bill. I wish there was more power than when someone does not meet the goal at the end of 1999, whoever is responsible for their actions be penalized, Mr. Speaker. I think if each and every department is deemed responsible, the Ministers, deputy ministers and people at the management level, then they will try very hard to meet the law or policy.

Mr. Speaker, I support the bill, but there are no teeth to it. I wish someone would at least be responsible; perhaps, a politician. Thank you.

Agreed.

---Applause

Thank you. To the principle of the bill. Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I support the principle of Bill 30, Deficit Elimination Act. It's along the lines of a recommendation of the Standing Committee on Finance. I would like to applaud the Minister of Finance for putting this past his colleagues so we can debate it here in the House.

Mr. Speaker, this is a very serious bill, it's a very tough decision to make. I'm sure, like everybody else here, when I put my name forward to represent people in my constituency, people were concerned about balancing the budget. We had an accumulated surplus when we started and now we're into an accumulated deficit, so we're in a very tough situation.

The federal government has cut us back and division is coming in 1999. The intention here is to have a balanced budget before division occurs so we wouldn't have the problems that would be associated with trying to deal with an accumulated deficit when division does happen.

So I applaud Bill 30 and I support the principle. However, again, I would like to repeat what other Members have said, that there have to be sanctions in there that we have to make sure this bill is a serious bill so when we don't meet our targets, we have to have some sort of accountability for people. I think it's going to be a tough decision. It's going to be the people in the government, the Minister and Cabinet who are going to have to be taking the responsibility, I'm aware of that. But if there are going to be cuts; I've said in the House before, we have to work with the people in the communities to determine where we should be spending our resources. Our resources are depleting and we have an accumulated deficit. The people in the communities have become very aware of where our funding comes from and they know how the funding is spent in communities. I think we have to work together here, the government and Members on this side of the House, then we, as politicians, have to work with the people in the communities we represent so we make the right decisions. With that, Mr. Speaker, I would like to say that I support the principle of this bill. Mahsi.

Thank you. To the principle of the bill.

Question.

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 30 has had second reading. Bills 28 and 30 have had second reading, and accordingly the bills stand referred to a committee.

Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96; Bill 13, An Act to Amend the Fair Practices Act; Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Retirement Plan Beneficiaries Act; Bill 21, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95; Committee Report 2-12(7), Report on the Legislative Action Paper on the Office of Ombudsman for the Northwest Territories; Committee Report 3-12(7), Report on the Review of the Legislative Action Paper Proposing New Heritage Legislation for the Northwest Territories; and, Committee Report 4-12(7), Report on the Review of the 1995-96 Main Estimates, with Mr. Whitford in the chair.

Agreed.

---Agreed

If I might, and bring in a witness, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Agreed.

---Agreed