This is page numbers 743 - 763 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was housing.

Supplementary To Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The new rent scale was put into place and when it started off it was because of the federal government telling us that we don't charge proper rents in our communities and they would take back the dollars from us. I'm not talking a very small amount of money, it's millions of dollars.

We have a choice. We either treat all people equally throughout the Northwest Territories...And the Member must realize that in the majority of the communities, there was a change to the rent scale in 1983 and that was done overnight. So in those communities the change is there and there's still a need for housing in those communities, as well. The federal government made it very clear to us, if we were not going to charge equivalent to what southern Canada is charging, they would take back money from us. And that would create a lot more hardship on our people than the rent scale, because we will lose dollars that we don't have and we won't be able to build new stock.

The new rent scale is going to encourage higher-income people to get into home ownership. We have long waiting lists, I know that. We have overcrowding, I know that, in all our communities. But if we continue to sit back and do nothing, that will never change. We have to encourage people to get into home ownership, and then free up houses for low-income people who desperately need them. That's what we're attempting to do. So it's the lesser of two evils, I believe. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Supplementary To Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm quite well aware of the problems the Minister is facing in terms of CMHC asking for this type of money he was just talking about. I don't think a two-year period is a long enough time to try to get these high-income earners out of public housing, unless the NWT Housing Corporation commits to allocate units within two years to all the high-income earners. My question is, will he do that, Mr. Speaker?

Supplementary To Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 751

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The phase-in period is not two years, it's four years at 30, 30, 30 and 10. That's the phase-in of the new rent scale. The rent scale has gone through the community consultation, regional consultation, the Advisory Committee on Social Housing and there have been a lot of comments and good recommendations from communities, regions and the committee on how to implement the new rent scale. Some people even thought that what we should do for high-income earners over the CNIT was throw them out of public housing, that they shouldn't be in there and they should get their own house. They thought we should do that overnight. We didn't do that. We phased it in more gently. We agreed with people that we wouldn't come down with a sledgehammer and force people out of units. We agreed there were reasons to phase it in so they could access home ownership.

Last year, I know that when we allocated access units in a lot of the communities, I was left with 40 units not allocated that people wouldn't take-up because it didn't pay for them to. Why would I pay $1,000 a month to own a house when I can rent a house from the Housing Corporation for $100 a month. That seemed to be the attitude. Now, let me assure you there is a great interest in the home ownership program. People's attention is there and they are being taken up. The take up is very good. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Final supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Supplementary To Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Speaker, let me make some corrections. The 40 units that weren't allocated was not because there weren't enough applicants. For some reason at the regional level, these applicants weren't approved when they qualified and that has been the history, Mr. Speaker. It was only very recently when the Minister insisted that the units be built in the communities that they were taken up. That is the great encouragement that I see, Mr. Speaker.

There are, I think, other reasonable alternatives which I think would be more effective. Doesn't he agree that in the determination of assessable income for a household, the spouses should be the only couple who are assessed for rent and that other family members who are staying with them not be included because there is no housing available? There is no place for them to go. I think that would be more reasonable if the department and the Minister considered, if both spouses are working, that their income is the only assessable income for increased rent. Doesn't he agree, Mr. Speaker?

Supplementary To Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 751

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That's how it is. If both spouses are working, both of their rents will be assessed, including other people working in the house. If there are two others, then their rents will be assessed as well. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Question 372-12(7): Potential Problems Resulting From New Social Housing Rent Scale
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, I have a question for the Minister for Employment, Mr. Nerysoo. Mr. Speaker, some time ago, I think it was back in early 1991, the Legislative Assembly addressed the issue of minimum wage. I recall it quite vividly because there was a two-tier system that we had put into place, one rate for on-road, off-road and one rate for under 16 and over 16. Since about four years has gone by since the minimum wage has been addressed, I'm wondering whether the Minister of the day has considered reviewing the issue of minimum wage. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the honourable Member. I have been having discussions with regard to that particular matter. I haven't brought it to my Cabinet colleagues for consideration. We have reviewed the minimum wage of the Northwest Territories compared to some other jurisdictions across the country and find that, generally speaking, there are other jurisdictions that are almost comparable to the minimum wage we have. In fact, some of the provinces are reaching the level of minimum wage we have at this time. There are some that are, in fact, higher.

Return To Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister said that he has discussed the issue so I would like to know whether the Minister has considered possibly raising the minimum wage in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have considered it and what we need to do now is have discussions, as we normally do, with the business community to see if the potential for increases has a bearing on the economic circumstances of northern businesses. Another component that still concerns me, and we have had a number of discussions on this matter with some of our Justice representatives, is the two-tier system.

I know the intent and the arguments put forward by the former Ministers, but there is a possibility that there could be Charter implications with regard to the two-tier system and we're reviewing that matter. It is one of the issues that we need to consider as part of the changes if it has to happen. The most important component, however, is whether we're prepared to proceed with changes to the level of minimum wage.

Further Return To Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister indicated that there are concerns with the two-tier system. The two-tier system, I recall vividly, was developed by the will of the previous Legislative Assembly to ensure we had in place a fair equitable system unique to the Northwest Territories, an on-road and off-road system. I would like to ask the Minister if he is committed to the continuation of the two-tier system which is reflective of the uniqueness of the north, or is he going to be persuaded by Charter implications? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 752

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The problem with the two-tier system happens to be the age issue. It's a difference between the age rather than on-road, off-road. There's a situation where there is a minimum wage for a group of individuals at a certain age and below and another age and above. That's the area of concern we have. However, I won't debate that matter.

The concern is, Mr. Speaker, other than having reviewed the documentation myself and having discussions with the department -- and I must say, Mr. Speaker, that we're in favour of the idea of raising the minimum wage -- we have not heard any arguments from Members of the Assembly recommending that possibility to us.

So, we are inclined to stay at the minimum with the exception that -- personally, I don't have a concern as a Minister -- other jurisdictions across the country are in fact at the same level or above our minimum wage. The fact is that the cost of living for the people of the Northwest Territories is much higher than other jurisdictions. If the honourable Member would wish to make the recommendation and give that advice, I would be inclined to approach the business community with a view that we are seriously considering the increase.

Further Return To Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am wondering whether or not the Minister would consider reviewing the labour rates and labour standards with regards to minimum wage rates for the people of the Northwest Territories, to determine if the continual cost of living over the past years would warrant an increase in minimum wage. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Question 373-12(7): Review Of Minimum Wage Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 752

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo.