Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the Minister a question with regard to this. It shows that they have 68 person years; I suspect it's seasonal. I'd like to ask him how many positions or how many jobs does this particular area create with respect to forest fire management?

Mr. Chairman, the number of person years that are created under this particular activity are 20 full-time, 180 seasonal, and 10 to 15 seasonal casual person years.

Mr. Chairman, is that up and over the 68 continuing person years that's stated in the budget book?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That's a breakdown of that number.

Mr. Chairman, how could it be a breakdown of that number? The number we have under person years for forest fire management, in expending $17 million, is 68 continuing person years and 2.8 casual and the Minister indicated 200 full-time, 180 seasonal, and 10 to 15 seasonal casuals as PYs created. Are those PYs created from the $17.2 million which is over the $5.2 million already expended on salaries and wages? Is that the breakdown? In addition to 68 PYs, there are also an additional 200 full-time, 180 seasonal and 10 to 15 season casuals. That's why I'm trying to find out. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I would to ask Mr. Handley to respond to that.

Mr. Chairman, when we talk about 68 PYs, those are full-time equivalents. So when you take 180 seasonal people, for example, they might only work two or three months. If they work three months, that's one quarter of a PY. If we total our 20 full-time PYs plus our seasonal and our casual PYs, it totals 68. The salaries for those people are out of the salaries and wages budget indicated in here.

In addition to that, in the fire program we also have emergency firefighters who we hire on a daily or hourly basis. They're included in the suppression budget, not in the salaries and wages here. Thank you.

Thank you. The Minister didn't say 20 full-time, he said 200. That's why I wasn't sure. In additional to 180 seasonal. Basically, you have over 200 in total, which is equivalent to the 68 continuing PYs.

Mr. Chairman, I meant to say 20. It should have been 20.

(Microphone turned off)...The other problem we have every year -- and Mr. Pollard will attest to it -- is towards the end of the year, your firefighters wait a long time to get paid under the system you have set up. Because of the way the UIC works, they have to have so many weeks, and their amounts of overtime or the hours they put in equate to your equivalent time eligible for UIC. Therefore, they might finish off the fire line in the middle of September and they might be looking for their final pay in October or November.

It seems that every year around November, we get calls trying to get these guys paid. Have you been able to address that system where you can avoid that happening every year?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Generally what we do is take the overtime the people have earned and we increase the number of weeks for which they qualify. By doing this, people are sometimes still receiving their bi-weekly payments long after the fire season is over. We do that with the general agreement of all the seasonal people in order for them to then qualify for unemployment insurance benefits.

It seems every year we have some people who don't understand what's happening, and they want a pay-out, even though they may have agreed to this system. I think we have, over the years, gradually improved it so we're getting fewer and fewer people saying where's my final cheque. I think there is still some confusion, but we're working on the problem. Thank you.

Basically what it is, as you accumulate overtime over the fire season, it is taken at the back end of the system as opposed to it being paid as they accumulate it. That way, you can allow them eligibility for UIC. That's what causes some of the problems.